Should guards be able to arrest nosave-fighting chars?

[Kalden]

I really, really like Venomz's idea! :idea:

[Cenghiz]

Tlaloc oh please you don't want to understand? I don't play dirty-criminal roles for long, because I'm afraid. I've never been insta-killed. The code was different or I was somewhat uber when I was first caught, because two guards could deal only little damage to me. After that char died I thought; "Oh yeah, let me try the other classes then get back to another assassin.". I never did. Because I do plan my char. I don't like the 'get in the 'rinth, backstab all, hide a lot, sneak all the time and become uber' logic. That assassin was made with such logic because I was a newbie from an H&S MUD. But I cannot think of any other logic to become a good criminal. OK. I'm a fool IRL, I'm not creative IRL but; is Allanaki Militia really too great that no fool criminals have right to live? Are all thieves and thugs and burglars masters of strategy?
I don't know why such code's put in, but it seems to be a little unrealistic. Sorry; OK I know the soldiers are meant to be groups of soldiers, they're pretty well trained, they're empowered by Tek himself, they have steel bla bla. Still they should have a lag. Only for movement. Let them subduedrawdrawslashslashslashslashslash thing, but let them not fly into the room we're in. Let them run with a moderate speed. Wouldn't that be fine?
To advance in a skill, you must fail. If you fail in the city, you're jailed or dead. Being jailed is not very nice RP. So can't the code be different so our new pickpockets of Allanak could steal something other than stale rolls or rotten fruits? Please, let someone PM me another way to improve a newbie pickpocket so I can believe that the crime code needs no changes? I promise not to use the ways PM'ed to me if the author doesn't want me to.


Ohh I feel relieved.

[Mr.Camel]

I really, really like Venomz's idea!

[Lazloth]

Just to note, Vettrok: In all of your above examples, except one (the one about attacking a viscous animal inside the gates), I would say the fact that you got incriminated was wholely intentional.

I believe his items were meant to suggest that he was not (intending to) consciously break the law, not whether the actions were intended as laws by the citystate founders.

To Vettrok: just like earth, (IC) ignorance is no excuse.

[Vettrock]

Just to note, Vettrok: In all of your above examples, except one (the one about attacking a viscous animal inside the gates), I would say the fact that you got incriminated was wholely intentional.

I believe his items were meant to suggest that he was not (intending to) consciously break the law, not whether the actions were intended as laws by the citystate founders.

To Vettrok: just like earth, (IC) ignorance is no excuse.

Yes I was not intending to break the law, and had I known I was breaking the law, I would have surrendered immediately.  I understand that ingnorace is not an excuse, all of those things happened several years ago(except for the recent one), I leanred something from them in every case, yes I was breaking the law, and will take steps to aviod doing so in the future.

[Agent_137]

cenghiz, were you drunk when you wrote that?

Because i'm drunk, and I totally understood it.

:mrgreen:

[Anarchy]

Ok, first - this question needs to be answered - if met with a "Yes" answer, i make the following suggestion.

1) When a guard cries out "Surrender, criminal!" or some such - and say your fighting - realisticly, would you continue to fight, or would the two brawlers back off from one another as the guards came in? I'd say yes, they would. Only an idiot is going to continue swinging a sword after a guard has arrived on the scene.

So,

code it so milita guards, when entering the room, emote breaking up the fight, then saying surrender or die. They have the option of typing "surrender" - and thus being subdued, and dragged to jail, if they type anything else other then surrender - the guard see that as breach of rank, and attack.

Rough, i know, but the idea is there.

[Cenghiz]

cenghiz, were you drunk when you wrote that?

Because i'm drunk, and I totally understood it.

Yes I had had a little whisky to ease my nerves after a long period of working.

[Dan]

If someone drops something, you might try to pick it up without them noticing (steal it). I don't believe you'll get rushed and killed for picking something up with the steal skill, but if you mess up everyone will see you and know it was you who nabbed it (See help skill_steal for the explanation). Eventually you can grab things up without anyone seeing, off of their tables, or the bar. After you feel competent enough you might try to get into their pockets.

[jstorrie]

Hey - maybe those big burly guards could have sap?  That'd be nice.

[X-D]

Oh sure, give them sap, make it impossible to escape npc guards...snort.

Considering NPC's don't have skill delays when they sap, it is instant, and I've had a half-giant with 203stun KO'd by an NPC elf in one shot...still can't figure out how he jumped up there and did it without my char noticing:)

Nah, bad idea with current code.

[sacac]

What's so hard to believe? (I didn't mean for this to be a flame towards X-D, I was just looking at the helpfiles)
Half-giants only get to 12 and a half feet tall.
Elves get to 7 and a half feet.
With them kinda stats and them long ass arms(Including intelligence to move quieter in that situation with an unsuspecting, "mentally handi-capped" half giant, they could reach up there and knock your 12.5 foot ass out, I think.
Not to mention this little blurb from help race_elf
"Elves are very long-limbed,..." in the third paragraph.

On topic:
soldiers with sap is very bad.
One guard runs up on you and saps you and the other soldier has kill you on the menu, you are gonna die.. every time.

And I still don't think there is anything wrong with the soldiers.
I mean goddamn people, set up your nosave on when in doubt about if what you are doing is illegal and you don't wanna be killed.

[Anonymous]

PLEASE READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST

I mean goddamn people, set up your nosave on when in doubt about if what you are doing is illegal and you don't wanna be killed.

The entire reason this thread was made was because guards will jump in and instakill you even if you have nosave on if you are in combat.

[spawnloser]

Eventually you can grab things up without anyone seeing, off of their tables, or the bar. After you feel competent enough you might try to get into their pockets.

Wrong.  Those are containers, meaning you need the skill sleight-of-hand.  Steal only works for things in the room and things being taken directly from people.

[Angela Christine]

I mean goddamn people, set up your nosave on when in doubt about if what you are doing is illegal and you don't wanna be killed.

The entire reason this thread was made was because guards will jump in and instakill you even if you have nosave on if you are in combat.

That is easy too.  Don't start combat or do anything illegal within sight of the guards.  If you see a soldier one or two rooms away, wait until he moves on.  

Then don't stay in combat in lawful areas.  Flee imediately, nosave, and then go on with your day.


AC

[Agent_137]

Fix the KNOWN CODE PROBLEM FIRST.

Discuss theory AFTER the code is fixed.


Thank you.

[Angela Christine]

Fix the KNOWN CODE PROBLEM FIRST.

Discuss theory AFTER the code is fixed.

How would you like that to be acomplished here in the General Discussion forum?  Players can't fix the code.  The staff knows about the situation and either can not fix it, is unwilling to change it, or hasn't gotten to it yet.  So what is left for general discussion?  Ways to live with the reality that exists today.  


Perhaps militia on internal police duty could be given high-stun nightstick type weapons, weapons that are designed to pacify the populace.  Those on gate duty, protecting very sensitive areas, or marching to war would naturally want the most leathal weapons available.  You don't want the soldiers simply knocking a rampaging mekillot unconcious and then ignoring it until it wakes up and starts eating them again.    

There may be a problem with knocking out criminals though.  I have previously seen soldiers standing around with a subdued criminal for long periods of time, but only if the criminal was inactive.  I'm not sure if the criminal was mortally wounded, unconcious or linkdead, but something caused the soldiers to start ignoring him despite the fact that they had already subdued him.  You really don't want soldiers knocking out criminals and then ignoring them.  By the time you woke up the passing crowds will have stolen everying you own!  Landing in a cell unconcious isn't great either, because if they get busy you may wind up sharing your cell with other PCs, who may kill you or steal your pants just because they can.  

Crime doesn't pay.  Well, getting caught doesn't pay.  Except occasionally, when you land in a cell with a dead guy, and you can steal all his stuff.


AC

[Anonymous]

Give them swords AND nightsticks?

Nightsticks to knock out non-lethal offenses
Swordz for filthy magickerz, traitors, bahamets, ect.

[sacac]

No? Let's give them MORE power by being able to knock out anyone in one hit? No. Once you people find out what's illegal, you don't do it again, unless you want to, yea?

[Tlaloc]

Perhaps militia on internal police duty could be given high-stun nightstick type weapons, weapons that are designed to pacify the populace.

Thats assuming, of course, that the militia wants to pacify the populace in a non-lethal maner, which I don't think is true. Instead, the chief weapon the ruling classes use against the populace is fear, and the pain of death for breaking the 'rules'. If you get off with anything less than death, I would count myself lucky.

Zalanthas is a terrible place to live. They don't have nice rules, human rights, or (typically) easy punishments. Its a world where the weak, unwise or unlucky die - sometimes very quickly.

[Anonymous]

YEAH!  And people are GREEDY and MEAN, right?


So maybe we should make bandit NPC's in the newbie starting rooms that kill/rob people as soon as they spawn in!  the guards are in on it too so they dont get arrested!

Or, lets have guards randomly kill PC's because the PC virtually pissed off a VNPC and the VNPC paid for the hit or somthing.  Who cares, theres a 1000 other bullshit reasons we can think of to justify the guards randomly killing people and getting away with it!

Or hey, lets make failing a steal make you instanly die, because you get the crap beat out of you by a lot of vigilante VNPC's! its realisitic!!! its a harsh world out there, dont do anything illegele

THIS GAME IS THE FUN
     

[mansa]

I haven't read most of the posts on this thread, because it's gone over the 'length' limit of my curiosity, but...

Why not give soldiers club weapons?  You'd smash in some heads, but you'll knock out people before you kill them...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The flaw to giving clubs to the soldiers and beating the shit outta the person is this: The PC the soldiers beat is now a criminal, and any PC that wants to can go on and kill them, because of that.

If that is fixed, I'm all for the 'club idea'.

[AC away from home]

Thats assuming, of course, that the militia wants to pacify the populace in a non-lethal maner, which I don't think is true. Instead, the chief weapon the ruling classes use against the populace is fear, and the pain of death for breaking the 'rules'. If you get off with anything less than death, I would count myself lucky.

Meh.  Death only works so far, I think many people are more afraid of the pain of pain, than the pain of death.  Once you are dead, you are dead.  End of story.  What do you learn from that?  Getting the crap beat out of you and then spending time in a filthy cell, and being "fined" some of of your possessions is going to stick with a person.  That was a really unpleasant experience, something you don't want to do again.  You'll tell your buddies about how unpleasant it was, and they won't want to do it either.  It isn't a matter of human rights or being nice, it is simply that a living witness can spread more fear than another corpse on the heap, especially if people have gotten used to seeing heaps of corpses.

In the long run knowing that Uncle Joe, who you don't even remember very well, was killed by the militia will have less of an effect than Uncle Joe himself telling you about the beating he took from the milita, and that's why his finger bends that funny way and he has no front teeth, so he has to cut up all his food real tiny.  You'll get to see him struggling to chew every day, you'll get to see his bent finger and his missing teeth.


Death is useful too, but it isn't the only tool in the Oppressor's Toolkit.


AC

[Krath]

Ah..To the Anonymous poster, get a GDB name.  To everyone else, I say screw it. It isn't a fair
world and it is not Earth or America. If you are committing a crime you might die, more likely
than not. If you do not like that, then become a better criminal and better at what you do.  If I was
in the militia or any form of some such, If I saw two pcs fighting, I would take down the wanted one.
I would not waste my time trying to pull him from battle because then I might get hurt in the process
and why would I want to hurt myself with my cushy job? I Say No, and even though it is my opinion
I would be pissed if it got changed to subduing you while fighting, it is not realistic. And YES, two WELL
train guards coming at you and instagibbing you in one round is.  If you need examples and reasons
please ask.