Should guards be able to arrest nosave-fighting chars?

[I. G.]

If your criminal character is fighting, guards do not seem to attempt to subude you.  They instead attack, and more often than not, instantly kill your character.

Even with nosave on, you can consistantly be instantly gibbed.

There is no RP in that.  There is no fun in that.
With nosave on, you should submit when the guards arrive.
It is hard to roleplay out being captured with the law enforcement and such when your character instantly dies, dispite being willing to submit.



Thus, I propose:
City Guard NPC's be able to subude people whom are in combat.

Another route is this:  Code guard npc's the ability to 'arrest'.  Give it the same stat req's as subdue, give it the same effect as subuing someone, but make them be able to do it to a person whom is engaged in combat.
POSSIBLY, make it only work if they have nosave on.

For example, if nosave was ON:

You attack the guy!
You are wanted!
Your hit hits the guy
Your hit hits the guy

You swiftly dodge the guys hit.
You swiftly dodge the guys hit.

Guard has arrived from the east.
Guard says, 'Halt, criminal!'
(Your nosave is on)
You submit to the guard, and are arrested.

Guard drags you to the south... ect.



Or, if it is OFF, you get treated as you do right now.
Fighting = no subdue so draw draw kill.


You attack the guy!
You are wanted!
Your hit hits the guy
Your hit hits the guy

You swiftly dodge the guys hit.
You swiftly dodge the guys hit.


Guard has arrived from the east.
Guard says, 'Halt, criminal!'
(Your nosave is off)
Guard attempts to arrest you, but you resist.
Guard draws his sword.
Guard draws his sword.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
Guard hits you!.
*beep*




This would make for less chars dying to lameness, and promote RP instead of hard-coded, no-rp involved *beep*age.
Trust me, its more fun playing a templar/militia member when you have live (even if just for a while, mwuahaha) criminals to play with.

[I. G.]

If you vote no, please be sure to give a reason.

[Savak]

On the other hand, one could make greater effort to avoid breaking the law around the local militia in the first place.  It's also worth noting that in some circumstances the militia doesn't -want- to haul a criminal to jail, but are acting under orders to execute on sight.

Don't misunderstand -- I think the premise of guards being able to come in, interrupt a fight and haul a criminal off has merit in an ideal setting.  The hard parts here are that 1) the other person you're fighting might not want to stop, and they should have some perogative in that instance, and 2) I'm not sure how readily the code would submit to such an idea.

Overall I tend to lean away from this idea in large part because it gives a criminal too much freedom in attempting to kill someone and their greatest fear being..getting hauled off to jail, which in the average instance means an automatic get-out-of-jail timer.  Yeah, if PC soldiers or PC templars are involved it's a self-resolving issue.  But, I'd still rather people be more careful BEFORE getting involved in combat, if that makes sense.

-Savak

[Miee]

I voted "yes" but I imagine the city-state guards to be like the LAPD.  Beat/shoot first, arrest second.

If the guards could grab you and start beating you into submission, giving you time to go "nosave", then you get a survival chance.  Also, fun RP of being in massive amounts of pain afterwards.

[I. G.]

In the guards eyes, it does not matter if the victim wants to keep fighting or not.  Fighting has no place in cities.


When your assaulted gets hauled off to jail, you then get to decide if you want to run and find a templar/militia member/wish up for an imm to animate a templar or militia member.. ect, if your wants.

That is ROLEPLAY.  That is a LOT more fun for ALL parties involved than hard coded insta-judge jury executioner.

[jstorrie]

I would prefer if militia guards would come in, somehow 'rescue' any non-criminal you were fighting (without insta-killing you in the process), guard the exits, and give you a few seconds to drop your weapons and come peacefully.

Then again, these aren't modern-day police.  There aren't exactly checks and balances in place to prevent guard brutality, if you know what I mean.

[I. G.]

I would prefer if militia guards would come in, somehow 'rescue' any non-criminal you were fighting (without insta-killing you in the process), guard the exits, and give you a few seconds to drop your weapons and come peacefully.

With this system, that is pretty much exactally what nosave on would do.
Since seconds cost lives, you pre-decide your reaction to guards attempting to stop you, just as you do with nosave in any other situation.
(Since this situation just involves guards insta killing you because they cannot subdue while you are fighting)

With nosave on, if a guard tells you to drop your weapons and put your hands in the air, you DO.
With nosave off, if a guard tells you to drop your weapons and put your hands in the air, you DO NOT.

[Barzalene]

What is this weird "gibbed" word. What are the origins of "gibbed?"

[I. G.]

It basically comes from quake/halflife.

When you do enough damage to someone in one quick stroke (This usually involves a rocket, but can involve anything from falling to headshots), the character is killed and his model is replaced by various models of chunks of blood/guts/skulls ect.  This package of models is propelled outword in seperate directions.  What this means is, shoot a guy with a rocket, he explodes, body parts go flying everywhere.


Its massive ownage.  Like guard hits you guard hits you guard hits you guard hits you guard hits you guard hits you beep.

[Bestatte]

There are some crimes that will have the soldiers subdue you and haul you off to jail, if you have nosave on.

There are other crimes that the soldiers will attack you for.

Bear in mind also, that if you attack a noble, maybe one who doesn't happen to have a guard with him at the moment... that is punishable by immediate and instant death. The same goes for casting spells in town (north or south). Are you suggesting that the sentence - DEATH - be lightened? Because - that's the risk you take when you attempt to attack someone in town.

If you're gonna engage in an attack, whether it wrestling someone to the ground (subdue), using the backstab or sap skill, or just hauling off and smacking them open-fisted (kill/hit, unarmed), then you'd better make sure you'd -damned- good at it before you make the attempt. Because if you get caught..then you will die.

I don't see why that's such a difficult thing to understand. There -are- situations in the game where the soldiers will simply subdue you, and not attempt to attack you, assuming your no-save is set correctly.

[I. G.]

And I'm not talking about thoes special situations.
If no special situation applies, they still attempt to insta-kill no arrest.

[Bestatte]

Uh, they're not special situations. No more special than the situations that get you dead. They're just different crimes. Lesser crimes, if you want to look at it that way.

Do a crime that is punishable by death, and you'll die. Do a crime that isn't, and if your no-save is on, you won't die. <shrug> Seems to be working fine for me, and all the people I've seen dragged off to jail, very much alive, by NPC guards in the two major cities.

[I. G.]

Um
If you are engaged in combat, they will not attempt to subdue you.
They will 'kill' you instead.

[Bestatte]

Right. Because that's one of the crimes that is punishable by death.

[I. G.]

Code Select Expand

>steal key begger
begger shouts thief thief
begger attacks you

guard arrives from the east
guard draws his sword
guard draws his sword
guard hits you
guard hits you
guard hits you
guard hits you
guard hits you
guard arrives from the east
guard draws his sword
guard draws his sword
guard hits you
guard hits you
guard hits you
*beep*
YOUR CHAR IS NOW DEAD




that is all I am proposed being fixed.
If you have nosave on when you rob the begger, you are arrested instead of insta-killed.

[Bestatte]

Well either that's a bug - or that beggar is coded as a secret employee-assassin of the militia. Your best bet is to e-mail mud and ask.

[spawnloser]

You seem to be missing the point, I. G.  Being in combat means that you are attempting to kill something...now, the guards see this, so they don't ask questions.  You expect them to risk their own hides by trying to wrestle with a sword wielding maniac?

[I. G.]

No?  I expect them to say Halt! Drop your weapons! or somthing to the effect, you know, kind of like what real cops do?
If nosave is on, you GIVE UP and submit.

Did you even read the thread?

Jesus, by that response you seem to think them ever using the subdue command is wrong.

[Lazloth]

Right. Because that's one of the crimes that is punishable by death.

Generally speaking, it's not the militia's job to execute judgement -- but I don't see much wrong with the current system (outside of the fact that guards seem to be getting 200 attacks in that first round.)

[sacac]

Bah. What does it matter to the militia if one common criminal is no more?
i don't see a problem with it.
Yes.. though I've been killed over stealing a leaf that only sold for 2 'sid..
Stupid nosave

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I'm not sure why the code should present a guarantee that all people attempting to murder someone else will be arrested peacefully. Even in today's modern age where criminals are given rights (much unlike most of Zalanthas), I'm sure that a cop who is watching a bank robber shoot at innocents will open fire on the bank robber. Why should it be different in Allanak or Tuluk in the harsh desert world of Zalanthas?

[Miee]

It also occured to me that as a RL analogy, if you're pointing a gun or other weapon at someone, the cops will tell you to drop the weapon.  If you refuse and either turn it towards them or appear to be about to shoot the other person, they will shoot you dead.

If you're whacking someone with a sword and the guards rush in, they're probably not even going to give you a chance.  So ok, yeah.  A chance to nosave would be nice, but I guess it isn't too realistic in retrospect.

[Angela Christine]

The change you propose would most likely end in death anyway.  Have you ever been hit while subdued?  I have, and you rarely need to be hit twice to die.  So the guards rush in and subdue you, but if the guy you were fighting doesn't stop immediately then he will hit you at least once more while the soldier is holding you helpless, and you will die.

In order for it to work, both combatants would have to stop fighting simultaneously before the subdue kicked in.  I think that would be fairly complex to code, considering that we can't even voluntarily stop sparring without fleeing.  There aren't always enough soldiers to try to subdue both of you at the same time, so they would need a way to force the other guy (PC or NPC) to stop fighting once you have been subdued.


AC

[Anarchy]

I'd only support it if guards arrested both parties.

Sucks nothing more then getting subdued by a guard - then having your foe score a nice grevious wound on you subdued-cannot-defend-your-self-ass.

[drunkendwarf]

I'd entirely agree SOMETHING needs to be done about this.

I feel for ya, lost a 30 day ranger in less than a second myself at the city gates, shooting AWAY from the city at a raider, nonetheless. Didn't seem to matter to the guards, who gave me absolutely no rp chance to surrender to them or explain myself in any way. Failed their subdue, and cut me down. Mounted, with a bow in hand...died so fast I thought it was a joke or something...I had to scroll back up to even see what happened. If only they hadn't failed their subdue....
My poor char belonged to a group that offered it's aid to the Templarate whenever needed, and even lost a few members in the process. Some RP in all of it would have been great. ANY RP would have been nice.

As it is, it seems like nothing gets done about this gaping hole in the crim code...and these random posts will continue to pop up as someone else gets hosed. Maybe some day something will be done about it...it really killed my motivation to play for quite some time. I don't mind loosing characters...quite used to it at this point, but I count that as the lamest way I've EVER lost one, and it was quite a while before I took up the reins again.

I know MANY MANY suggestions have been made to remedy this problem...maybe it's time to implement one? Please?