A very, very lame way to be introduced to this mud.

[Simillion]

Before I start, a disclaimer: this post is not meant to sound whiney. I do like Armageddon and want it to improve, but I just don't think it's in a state right now where it's worth me spending time playing it. Now, please read on.

I was a clueless half-elf ranger, but not clueless in that I had no idea how to be a decent ranger, rather, clueless as in I was way, way too trusting. Basically, I was walking out of the Gaj when an elf that I thought was being friendly (he was obviously looking for easy prey there) started a little conversation with me at the bar. In hindsight, it was fairly clear that he was up to no good, but I had no idea at the time. He proceeded to take me out of the city and kill me, slowly (he wasn't that great of a fighter, just better equipped). Why kill me? Absolutely no reason; he got me tired enough that I couldn't run and then just killed me, after saying, "You can't keep up? THEN YOU MUST DIE!" Yeah, real great reason for murder, obviously a lame excuse for lame role-player. If anyone suggests there was some real RP reason besides him hunting noobs, you're dead wrong. I don't know what exactly motivates people on Armageddon to slaughter noobs this way, but I'd like to quote a page on the website as a lesson to that nameless elf.

Most Zalanthans are very aware of their ecological surroundings.  Though the reasons might not be altruistic, they realize the danger of overhunting.  If someone lives by tanning the hides of tregils, and s/he kills every tregil in the area and sells the hides she made, s/he will gain an immediate windfall, yes.  But how will s/he make a living now?

Sure, he might be making good money by slaughtering noobs in the Gaj now, but what happens when those noobs get discouraged and leave? No more prey for him, no more new players on the mud, period.

Goodbye Armageddon.

[Meatwad]

I seriously hope the staff looks into this.

[Simillion]

Sadly, I couldn't save a log of the event. Believe me, I tried, but I was using a shareware version of Zmud that didn't keep a buffer and couldn't do backlogging. Never using that program again.

[Mr.Camel]

Yes, I hope so aswell. While I sympathize with you, Similion, this would have been better handled with a mail to the MUD.
Anyhow, don't let something like that make you miss out on something as great as ArmageddonMUD.

[Gorobei]

Keep in mind, Sim, that this is a free mud.  There are no screening processes other that the character application, so anyone who's passed ninth grade english and has a memory longer than a day can play.  This, coupled with the unfortunate effect of the internet on normally upright citizens of the world, means that there will be jackholes wandering the MUD, looking for someone to piss off.  They visit every internet community that you can find.
Your experience isn't normal for Armageddon, as anyone here would assure you.  Characters do die by the hands of other players, but the vast majority of these deaths are well-played and have much more depth.

[da mitey warrior]

It's really the nature of the game.  Armageddon is harsh.  HARSH.  You quickly learn not to trust anyone in the game.   And if you don't know what you are doing you will die quickly.

What that other person did wasn't the best RP ever, but it wasn't strictly wrong.  Killing someone who's foolish enough to trust an elf and let himself get put into such a position by an elf is fair game.  I'm not saying you the player were a fool, you're just a newbie.  The elf had plenty of reason to kill you, your money for one, and to prove that he was "better" than you by tricking you is another.  The fact that your character was a half-breed made it even more compelling for him.  

(it wasn't me, btw)

If you want to play the game and live I'd suggest the following.

1. Make a human.
2. Don't trust anyone with your life, especially elves.
3. Make a warrior.  Maybe join a clan if that's your thing.
4. Don't worry if you die like that a few times starting out.

[flurry]

Silimillion

If you haven't already, I recommend you email mud@ginka.armageddon.org to explain what happened.   Even just cut and paste what you posted here.   That way you'll know the the right people will see it in a timely manner.

I do sympathize with you.   That's a tactic that, while maybe not technically code abuse, I don't really respect much.   And if used specifically because the target is obviously a new player, then it's simply indefensible.

I hope that you'll decide at some point to give the MUD another chance.

[Armaddict]

It happens all the time.  It's how some people -live-.  By taking from others.

I fail to see the huge problem.  Because he didn't grant you mercy?  Because he fooled you into leaving the gates?

You followed what's obviously a -raider- there, and not only that, let yourself follow behind him to the point you couldn't run away.  This is his fault?

I realize it may seem unfair.  But you were the prey, and you were hunted.  Live and learn.

[bioproject]

I, really, have to say, though, try playing any other MUD.  The thing I like about Armageddon is that, generally, your characters don't die...ALL THE TIME.

[Armaddict]

They don't?

You people must be playing the soft part of the game.  Cushy like teddy bears.

[Simillion]

It happens all the time.  It's how some people -live-.  By taking from others.

I fail to see the huge problem.  Because he didn't grant you mercy?  Because he fooled you into leaving the gates?

You followed what's obviously a -raider- there, and not only that, let yourself follow behind him to the point you couldn't run away.  This is his fault?

I realize it may seem unfair.  But you were the prey, and you were hunted.  Live and learn.

Haha. Your post amuses me.

There's a critical flaw in your argument that I was simply "prey;" that is, people in the Gaj are never simply prey. If I was out in the desert to begin with, then I wouldn't even have made this post. But I was in a bar, a "Newbie" bar. Let me see if I can make you understand.

In real life, there is no such thing as a place where "newbies" gather. The equivalent of that would be going to kindergartens and picking up 5 year olds to slaughter and take lunch money from.

Similarly, in Allanak, the Gaj is just a bar where people start out. If the game was a realistic environment, the people there would be just as knowing as people in any other part of the world. However, they are not; they're newbies, which means that experienced players should take this into consideration. Somehow, this elf ICly knew that I would be unable to know better. That makes absolutely no sense; it's bad RP.

I think it just comes down to that. Bad RP. You have no point at all, Armaddict.

[Armaddict]

Yes, I do.

You were in the Gaj.  Correct.  This is not a 'safe-haven' where people congregate because they cannot be fooled here.

You were fooled, fair and square.  You were duped.  You followed someone to where you were vulnerable, based on their words.  It's what elves, as well as just about anyone who's scum who's trying to make their living off of -you-, do.

There is no 'newbie zone'.  It is frowned upon to take advantage of newbies, yes.  But as the mudconnector states, this is -not- a newbie friendly mud.  You will die, many times, in the beginning.  Do not think that just because you are a newbie, you will not have to deal with the harshness of armageddon.

Once again, you were simply prey.  You fell for it.  Don't whine about his 'taking advantage of a newbie'.  It may not have even been apparent to him that you -were- a newbie.  And next time, keep your eyes a little more open.  Everyone is out for their own benefit.

Your post screaming 'bad rp' at this guy for killing you, when you took every step to help him do it....amuses me.

[Meatwad]

Armaddict is newbie friendly's antithesis.

[Beaner]

I am not as sure your murder is as isolated and rare as people would like to believe. I think it's important that incidents like this be publicized rather than being sent as solitary complaints to the mud; I know that in the short amount of time that I have been playing I have been exposed to similar experiences, though maybe not of such a great magnitude. I've said it before and I'll say it again: This mud is newbie unfriendly. Every time I relate some new discouraging experience or another in the IRC room or with a game helper, the only response I get is the same failed attempt at consolation: "well, that's how you learn in this game." Though it is true that every time my character has died I've made a new one, I have to wonder what it is that continues to draw me back.

The fact remains that every time I enter Zalanthas again I find myself alone and lost, getting along a bit farther each time, immersing myself deeper into the world inch by inch. The learning experience in this game is more akin to bootcamp than anything most anyone would voluntarily want to experience, at least, that is the way it's been for me--I'm not sure about other people, maybe I am just another unlucky one. In the end I guess only the toughest and most perseverant survive, and when they get to that point, like our lovely elf that killed you, they are so hardened and so proud that they really don't believe they have any obligation to newbies. The nature of the setting is nothing but a convenient way to justify an act that is motivated by nothing more than greed, cruelty, and twinkiness.

I feel I am beating a dead horse, expounding on points you basically covered, so I guess I can sum all this up with this sentence: I sympathize with you, and I myself am not sure how much longer I can endure the abuse inherent to this game.

[Meatwad]

It would be so much nicer if people would simply use emotes instead of hitting kill as fast as their adhd lets them.  It would be wonderful, at least for me, to be mugged in the game with emotes instead of the combat system.  It would then be a positive experience for both, albeit negative on one's bank account.  Plus the character would live on, having experiences with others about the robbery, instead of just having a player get frustrated and make a new character.  At least Beaner was encouraging to this new player, rather than shrugging off the person's experience.

[Khorm]

I'd like to point out that the Gaj isn't a "newbie" bar, it's a grungy place where your typical low-life commoner hangs out for whatever reason.. it just happens to be the spot where new characters spawn.

I've played characters that would jump on an easy kill in a heartbeat, and it sounds like this elf was doing the exact same thing. While the RP you saw during the event may not have been flawless, you have to consider that there are thoughts and motivations behind nearly every character in game.. he may've been starving or low on obsidian, he may've been ordered to kill a person to join some crazy 'rinth gang, you'll never know.

Please note that I'm not just writing off what happened as alright, it's just as likely that he's a "bad" player.. although those people tend to be few and far between.

[Simillion]

Yes, I do.

You were in the Gaj.  Correct.  This is not a 'safe-haven' where people congregate because they cannot be fooled here.

Did I say safe-haven? No. You didn't read my post well enough. My point is that it is NOT a safe-haven. My point is that it is a bar, like any other bar should be. But, it's a fact that it's where newbies spawn in. It's where newbies go and congregate, because they have to in order to log out safely.

I don't WANT to make it into a safe-haven, I just would rather people not HUNT there. It makes no goddamn sense for "raiders" to hunt at a freakin' bar. That's what RAPISTS do, and in case you didn't notice my allusion, PEDOPHILES do at SCHOOLS. And finally, it makes no sense that raiders would know ICly that "newbies" go there. "Newbie" itself is an OOC, not an IC concept.

Read my posts just a LITTLE more carefully before you go out and make an ass out of yourself. And, to add an endnote, I wonder if it was you.

Edit: Thank you, Khorm! You know what I meant. Gaj isn't a "newbie bar." Someone gets it, thank god.

[Armaddict]

*puts his head in his hand, shaking it with a sigh*

Nevermind.  You don't get the point.  I'll go on and let you wallow in your newbie misery.  I've done it.  Most people did.

The cruelty and harshness of this game is exactly what makes it appealing to at least -some- of the playerbase, if not most.

But, yes, anyway...it's obvious you're not listening, either.

So I'll just refrain from 'making an ass of myself', and keep on role-playing in the harshness of Zalanthas, where it's everyone for themselves.

I will leave you with a little passage from 'help armageddon', however.

3. Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely
   mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing,
   killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of.  The sole
   exception to this is termed 'the rule of consent', and is outlined
   both in "help consent" and in point 5, below.

[Yang]

You trusted an elf?

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Excuse me.

Well I guess at least now you know the documentation about elves is nice and acurate.

[Yang]

Oh my. Sorry about that, didn't know it would screw up the thread.

Welcome to Armageddon..?

[Northlander]

Well, there exist different ideas about how to treat obviously new players' characters. Some subscribe to the "be nice" way, which might well include spitting on you but won't include killing you. They'll try to give you the feel of Zalanthas, while sometimes not acting as their PCs would act. We also have players who name getting tricked to death as the reason they themselves fell for the mud.

Yes, your character would've known not to trust elves, had he been raised under any conditions resembling normality. This is one of the main reasons people advocate a first character should come from a virtual farming village, or otherwise have no clue about anything. That way, he learns as the same pace of the player - also making for a much more fun game.

The Gaj is coded as main Allanak's filthiest tavern, and frequented by many shady types. It is a bit of a shame that rookie players spawn in the Gaj, but I can't really see any great alternatives there, either.

[Simillion]

I trusted another elf before that. It worked out fine. He even lent me 30 sid and gave me his name.

So sue me, I had one good experience and maybe that screwed me over.

[Northlander]

Well, that elf was either poorly played, or had received a blow to the head, or had ulterior motives

To the point of this post - YANG: HIT THE EDIT BUTTON!

[Beaner]

Someone might have already posted what I am about to say, but due to certain people the thread has become rather hard to read.

I think this is a good point to let this mini-flamewar go--You two are having the same debate I’ve had many times myself, though over a different collection of details. I believe that if anything needs to change it is the existence of these arguments themselves, this habit players has of chastising newbies. When your first character dies and you turn to OOC assistance to understand and perhaps learn from the situation, the last thing you want to hear is “Haw haw, you deserved it.” This game is harsh, that is undeniable and I entered the game knowing that. It might be impossible to offer newbies a friendly, guiding hand within game, but there just needs to be more external encouragement. I do not know how to describe it, but I have this basic feeling that even though the setting of Armageddon may be harsh, the experience of the player does not necessarily have to be harsh and discouraging as well.

[Carnage]

Welcome to Arm, Sim. My cynical side is showing here but that player will likely get away without getting into trouble. In a year or so he'll still be PKing, but now with karma so he can be a magicker and branch spells that can easily freeze you up and turn you into being completely defenseless.

The only thing to do is pretty much suck it up and move on. I'll probably end up having my next character stored by Nessalin again for saying this, but complaining or writing in never seems to help and after a while you learn to end up brushing it off.

I'd love to say more, but the last thing I need is to be yanked out in the middle of a tavern and get yelled at by an angry overlord again.