Cafe, More Venues, Stuff like that

[650Booger]

the locals are pushed underground, literally.

You mean like, the sewers?  Ew!

[a french mans shirt]

What about an alley going between southside and Folley's?

Since most of the people from southside looking for trouble won't be elves.

I just say move the damn Gaj, and put three shops where it used to be, in order to do something with those rooms.

[Reiloth]

E.g. ads I love the idea of the Mantis having access from Allanak.

Technically there's not much but wall separating it.

[IntuitiveApathy]

What about an alley going between southside and Folley's?

Since most of the people from southside looking for trouble won't be elves.

I just say move the damn Gaj, and put three shops where it used to be, in order to do something with those rooms.

What about moving the Gaj to a location off Meleth's or the western end of Merchant's Road?  Yes, it's a bit further away from the Commons, but much closer to both the Arena, and the Bazaar which are teeming with commoners.  It's more of a central location in the city, so more accessible to all parties that want to hang out there and helps to centralize and concentrate players a bit more as a result.  Many years ago in O.G. Tuluk, there was one main bar in a corner of an open square.  That bar and that square was where all the action would always happen; it was the place to see and be seen, no matter who you were.

I agree there are too many bars in Allanak now and specifically I'm not sure I like having the Silver Ginka around given the Gaj sells tea and anyone better than the Gaj already has other options as well.  If it's to stay open though, maybe making the central Meleth's area an open square similar to what the Red Sun Commons was but with less rooms (keeping the Temple of the Dragon as an enterable place from one of the rooms) and setting the Gaj there and possibly even the Ginka there (or left close by as-is) with the Arboretum would also help to concentrate things and provide more interaction between players.

[Kankfly]

I feel like adding more bars/clubs/drinking holes will just divide up the playerbase even more.

We already have a gathering place for all sorts of people (except highborns), aka the Gaj. All the unsavories go there and can mix with the commoners.

There's already a place for more well-to-do commoners and highborns to go to, aka the Red's Retreat. And a place for highborns and rich people only, aka the Arboretum. Then you have the Oash bar and the Silver Ginka, which is a tea-sipping place.

There's also already a place existing for mostly rinthis - aka Folley and the Mantis. Making the Mantis more accessible to public goes against IC realism. Most people don't go into the 'rinth unless they're looking for trouble, and when they do, they're fair game for mugging/robbing/conning/etc. Think realistically, why would someone born in the city want to go cause trouble in the worst part of the city unless they're A, stupid, B, bored?

[a french mans shirt]

I feel that people who play in my extremely sparsely populated step of the social ladder--- unaffiliated, poor humans--- don't have any options for venues apart from the Gaj. Everything else is either Get That Money or made for criminals.

[Feco]

Just wanted to clarify what I thought:

I thought the idea of increasing access to the Mantis was a good one.

I don't like the idea of opening new areas for congregation.

I don't like the idea of moving the Gaj.

I don't like the idea if increasing access to the Folley.

Doing this IC would be cool, and probably possible, but would require a character with pretty particular, and maybe strange, motivations, as well as particular standing in game.

[Lizzie]

I'm still of the mind that a new secondary entrance to the Mantis might be a good idea, as long as it's an IC "coordinated effort" (aka long-standing contract) between the people who run the Mantis and the T'zai Byn, and the entrance would be through the Byn's outer area (between the gate and their out-building). Nothing else would change - templars and nobles -still- wouldn't want to risk going in there, because it's -still- part of the Rinth. But the rinth just seems to be a totally logical place for hardened mercenaries to congregate, PLUS its close proximity (on the other side of their wall) adds to the logic.

You'd make a doorway through the wall northward, that leads into a vacant hallway. A step up to the north would lead you to a second hall (maybe with NPC goons that would attack anyone wearing silk, metal, or Allanak Noble House livery), and step down to the east would finally lead you to the bar. This way you won't find templars' soldiers taking pot-shots at patrons from the safety of the "southside" rooms.

[nauta]

as for making the mantis more accessible, definitely gonna vote No on that one.  the mantis should be a place where cutthroats and thieves feel safe to idle a bit.  we can't have every off duty arm/bynner come by, or the thugs wont want to go there anymore.

Strictly speaking, there are two other bars (and many hiding spots) where the hunted can hide out in the rinth.

Also, there's actually two bars inside the Mantis itself -- you could have one bar plug into the T'zai Byn entrance and the other bar one that even the T'zai don't go to.  I don't think that potshots are that big of a worry -- there will be IC consequences, and if you are really really hunted, you can always go deeper into the rinth -- or down below!  I'd more worry about rinthers taking potshots at patrons than the other way around.

[Kankfly]

It's late here for me and I'm tired but... um, Byn isn't supposed to go into the rinth? Sorry, I'm confused.

[Reiloth]

Yeah I don't understand the logic of opening an entrance that is then more exclusionary to the Mantis. I think it should be open to all scummy commoners. Bynners maybe are allowed to go in plain clothes but it's their ass if they start a fight. No bail out from the organization.

[path]

I'm sentimental. Please don't move the Gaj. It would break my hard, black, Allanaki heart.

There is already a gambling hole above Red's. It should sell cards, I agree. That would be GREAT!

Because buying drinks is mostly a role playing prop, I agree with Skeelz that they should be, overall, cheaper. This is also the reason I don't buy tea in the Silver Ginka. My merchant house employees and aides flat out cannot afford it.

They really can't. I must not be skilling up my earning powers correctly.

[Gravity]

Why in the Known would a Rinth bar knowingly open an entrance to a mercenary faction which clearly does heaps of work for nobility/GMHs/other influential clans? And from the other side, there is zero reason the Byn would want to open their back door to the Rinth just to save their guys a longer walk into town for booze...

The Rinth is not supposed to be connected to the rest of town. For multiple reasons.

100% agree with other people that there do not need to be more bars either.

[Reiloth]

Yeah. I don't think there need to be more bars, I think bars need to be more accessible to many walks of life. The segmentation in Allanak drives me bonkers. I really enjoyed in Tuluk, bars/gathering spots had the capability of all walks -- Templars, Nobles, Commoners of all walks. There were 'more seedy' locations, like the Tooth, but it wouldn't be unheard of that a Noble or Templar would have a 'Secret Meeting' there. I enjoyed that at any moment, you might need to be on your A game because a Templar walked in, even if they were just stopping for a bite to eat or read a book.

The Dichotomy of the bar scene/gathering spot scene in Allanak is atrociously segmented. I think the Blue Vestric served as a good example of segmentation and how you can have people still be separate but visible/interacting with the game world.

While I love the Arboretum, and Red's Retreat, and I loved Trader's when it was around -- They are great as flavor. But if the whole point of shutting down Allanak was to push people together into Allanak, why is it that it feels so segmented in practice?

I think allowing Scum in Allanak to interact with Scum in the Rinth via the neutral territory of the Mantis only seeks to increase interaction between criminal elements. It also makes the Rinth seem more like a bad neighborhood than a walled off murder zone. Which I guess it is, but the alleys around the Mantis always seemed to be the 'Neutral Territory'.

[nauta]

I think in the 'directions' command the Mantis is listed as 'Neutral'.  Been a while.

But yeah, everything Reiloth said.

Fewer bars, more mingling.

[a french mans shirt]

No one actually seems to hang out in the Azure Dragon or the Silver Ginka, so I think its okay if those stay open. I wasn't real crazy about the opening of the Arbotoreum, it just, kind of felt like it was going to segment the population that can't go to the Gaj so they go to Red's instead. I don't know what actually goes on in there, how much people are going there and what for, but the nobles seem to be using it as a somewhat safe place to plot, which is something they should have without resorting to estates.

Why I wanted more restaurants that weren't actually bars is because people seem to treat those as places to rp, and then leave and go to the taverns after ten minutes for real drinks and conversations with more people. If people are going to treat a middle-lower class restaurant like that, then I would like one to open. Gaspies, bowls of chili, soul food, and cups of water and tea, no ale. Expensive enough and situated in a place preventing its replacement of the Gaj. You'd have to actually build it and see what happens though which I think is a waste of staff time.

[Lizzie]

Yeah I don't understand the logic of opening an entrance that is then more exclusionary to the Mantis. I think it should be open to all scummy commoners. Bynners maybe are allowed to go in plain clothes but it's their ass if they start a fight. No bail out from the organization.

I wasn't talking about an entrance that is more exclusionary to the Mantis. I'm talking about a SECOND entrance, that is accessed by ANYONE who wishes to walk up Warrior Way to the end, where the Byn compound is to the east and one of their outbuildings is to the west. The north is a wall. The room where the gate is to the east, the outbuilding is to the west, and the wall is to the north, is technically just a dead end, at the end of Warrior Way. It isn't part of the Byn compound. I'm saying, open up that northern wall and build an entrance to a hallway leading to a *second* side-entrance to the Mantis. And let the Byn have occasional sentry duty in that bar.

[nauta]

@french shirt:

It sounds like what you really want -- if not, at least what I think would be neat -- is more variety in the food/drink offerings of the current bars.

What'd be neat is if the bars were associated with clans, and so leadership in the clans could push towards changing the menu now and then with mastercraft recipes from PCs (or other things).

Azure Dragon is Oash already.  But you could have:

Silver Ginka (Fale?)

Gaj & Gladiator (Borsail?)

Mantis (Kuraci?  Although maybe not here.)

Red's Retreat (Kadius?)

[Reiloth]

@french shirt:

It sounds like what you really want -- if not, at least what I think would be neat -- is more variety in the food/drink offerings of the current bars.

What'd be neat is if the bars were associated with clans, and so leadership in the clans could push towards changing the menu now and then with mastercraft recipes from PCs (or other things).

Azure Dragon is Oash already.  But you could have:

Silver Ginka (Fale?)

Gaj & Gladiator (Borsail?)

Mantis (Kuraci?  Although maybe not here.)

Red's Retreat (Kadius?)

This just sounds needlessly complex. I'd rather Nobles have less perfunctory things to do (I run the Gaj, even though i'm just a Junior Noble) and have to think more outside of the box (How can I own the Gaj? Will this even curry favor with my Seniors?) Why does owning a bar mean anything to anyone besides a bit of chest-puffing? You mention changing the menus -- This could just be done with code, similar to the 'changing styles of Kadius'. Have a few different seasonal menus. Hell, base it off what's in the shops. Over X amount of Raptor Meat in this shop? Raptor Nugget time. No raptor meat? All out of raptor nuggets, here's a tuber salad.

I'd sooner play exclusively in Luirs or Red Storm, that just has one bar/gathering spot, than in Allanak which has a gazillion. I hate to think we shut down Tuluk to centralize people, only to push them into a highly segregated environment where interaction is based on your status. It's part of why i've always disliked Allanak. It is a place that sounds great on paper, but sort of ends up being a bunch of teenagers farting and fucking and avoiding each other. I hate to see Nobles just sitting by themselves in an empty bar, because they can't go anywhere else.

[Reiloth]

Yeah I don't understand the logic of opening an entrance that is then more exclusionary to the Mantis. I think it should be open to all scummy commoners. Bynners maybe are allowed to go in plain clothes but it's their ass if they start a fight. No bail out from the organization.

I wasn't talking about an entrance that is more exclusionary to the Mantis. I'm talking about a SECOND entrance, that is accessed by ANYONE who wishes to walk up Warrior Way to the end, where the Byn compound is to the east and one of their outbuildings is to the west. The north is a wall. The room where the gate is to the east, the outbuilding is to the west, and the wall is to the north, is technically just a dead end, at the end of Warrior Way. It isn't part of the Byn compound. I'm saying, open up that northern wall and build an entrance to a hallway leading to a *second* side-entrance to the Mantis. And let the Byn have occasional sentry duty in that bar.

Ah, I misunderstood you. When you mentioned 'outbuilding' I thought you meant inside of the Byn Compound. I agree with your idea!

Could even have a bouncer at the entrance. Ten sids to get in from the Southside entrance. Why? Because Rinthers want to make money off you and not just have you sit on a stool. Of course, the Rinth entrance is free of charge.

[Lizzie]

Yeah I don't understand the logic of opening an entrance that is then more exclusionary to the Mantis. I think it should be open to all scummy commoners. Bynners maybe are allowed to go in plain clothes but it's their ass if they start a fight. No bail out from the organization.

I wasn't talking about an entrance that is more exclusionary to the Mantis. I'm talking about a SECOND entrance, that is accessed by ANYONE who wishes to walk up Warrior Way to the end, where the Byn compound is to the east and one of their outbuildings is to the west. The north is a wall. The room where the gate is to the east, the outbuilding is to the west, and the wall is to the north, is technically just a dead end, at the end of Warrior Way. It isn't part of the Byn compound. I'm saying, open up that northern wall and build an entrance to a hallway leading to a *second* side-entrance to the Mantis. And let the Byn have occasional sentry duty in that bar.

Ah, I misunderstood you. When you mentioned 'outbuilding' I thought you meant inside of the Byn Compound. I agree with your idea!

Could even have a bouncer at the entrance. Ten sids to get in from the Southside entrance. Why? Because Rinthers want to make money off you and not just have you sit on a stool. Of course, the Rinth entrance is free of charge.

Oh I like this even more. A 10-sid entry fee - it could be tallied by the RL day and 50% of the take could be directly deposited into the PC Sergeant's accessible Byn account (assuming there exists such a thing). The Sergeants, in turn, could use that as a petty cash fund, to buy their unit a keg of whatever, or give as bonuses to promising and useful recruits, pay off an extra-special bribe, etc. etc.

[Jihelu]

Is there something I'm missing
Why is everyone 'let Bynner's/people in Mantis 2k16' all of a sudden?

[nauta]

Is there something I'm missing
Why is everyone 'let Bynner's/people in Mantis 2k16' all of a sudden?

I can't speak to the Byn thing, but for me at least I've had a few rinthers who found the Gaj too soldier heavy.  At the same time, I would've liked a place where some southsiders and northsiders could mingle -- a shady place.

[Taven]

I guess my big thing is if there is a problem with something in the game that you could technically change in an IC manner, send in a request about it.  Maybe you can change it in an IC manner rather than complaining about it.

If anything, staff these days are much more accessible and willing to work on player plots and ideas.  As for the current places that PCs hang out there is the Gladiator and the Gaj, Red's Retreat, Silver Ginka, and the Arboretum. The Arboretum has some IC restrictions, mainly for Nobles and high status people, Red's is Noble and High Status, but not restrictive at all to other PCs.  The Silver Ginka has no restrictions, more of a tea house that is small, and then you have the Gaj, the commoners main dive bar.

Is Red's really primarily aimed at noble and high status, though?

They sell fare that is common to Luirs (so wanderers and tribals) such as nuggets, kumis, gith eye soup, and dried meat. Menu-wise, the most fancy and expensive thing on the item is tender chalton meat. That doesn't really say to me that their main clientele is highborn and highly-ranked commoners.

In terms of who is actually at Red's, if we look at the NPCs, we have a Bynner Trooper and Sergeant. There's nobody of particularly high social status there at all. This matches with the fact that Red's is directly north of a shop that is run by an elf.

Sure, Red's does aim at higher class then the Gaj. It's a clean place that doesn't have vomit all over the place and people pissing on the walls. But I never got the impression that their main focus was high-end. If that's really their primary target market, then I think the tavern should be appropriately updated to reflect that.

[Miradus]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but hanging out in the 'rinth is an IC thing. You pay a price IC to hang out in the 'rinth and you take some risks being there.

I can't think of any legitimate reason why someone non-rinth would WANT to hang out there and drink bad booze and eat orphan-meat pies unless they were up to some chicanery. If you look at the streets outside, the smell of bodily waste and decaying bodies is prominent.

This is a place your characters would WANT to go when they have access to the Gaj or Red's?

If you want to be non-rinthi but yet also enjoy some Mos Eisley-style scumbag cantina, then why not Red Storm? It's got a pretty scummy bar and a lot of IC lore surrounding it. Yeah, you run the risk of getting ganked by a drov beetle or lost in a storm, but that's IC. You want a safe and secure tunnel to the dive bar in the 'rinth? Maybe a police escort?