Cafe, More Venues, Stuff like that

[Ath]

+1 for The Mantis being accessible to everyone.  This would vastly improve the Labyrinth as a place to play, and would make Labyrinth-Other interactions less... awkward.

- Gaj would probably still be the main hub for commoners.  It's close to stables.  Newbs pop there.  No one can really stab you there (and get away with it).  This last point is important -- a brawl can't end in a killing, right there in the bar.  People like to not die.
- Bynners and people looking for trouble will go to the Mantis, at least sometimes.  The occasional killing there will probably keep people from just making it the new Gaj.
- Rinth characters are often lonely and have to go to the Gaj for some interaction.  Or they go to try and stir up trouble.  Now that the Mantis is populated, or at least, Rinthis know that people looking for trouble will go there, they'll go to the Mantis instead.  Rinthis in the Gaj always strikes me as really strange, but it's sort of necessary the way things are set up.
- Elf and Human rinthis still have other places to congregate away from non-rinthies, if they need to cause some REAL trouble.


There still needs to be a shitty little alley that leads to the Mantis, though, to maintain some separation from Allanak proper.  It just shouldn't be a maze, and it shouldn't have NPCs in it looking to fucking chop you up.  It should be crim-code free, though, so that soldiers don't feel like they're allowed to go patrol it or some shit.

I REALLY like this idea.  A lot.

Technically the Mantis is available to all...  if there are IC issues causing it not to be, then IC actions could be taken.

[Jingo]

I like the idea of the mantis being available without -quite- the stigma and risk of entering the 'rinth.

[Riev]

+1 for The Mantis being accessible to everyone.  This would vastly improve the Labyrinth as a place to play, and would make Labyrinth-Other interactions less... awkward.

- Gaj would probably still be the main hub for commoners.  It's close to stables.  Newbs pop there.  No one can really stab you there (and get away with it).  This last point is important -- a brawl can't end in a killing, right there in the bar.  People like to not die.
- Bynners and people looking for trouble will go to the Mantis, at least sometimes.  The occasional killing there will probably keep people from just making it the new Gaj.
- Rinth characters are often lonely and have to go to the Gaj for some interaction.  Or they go to try and stir up trouble.  Now that the Mantis is populated, or at least, Rinthis know that people looking for trouble will go there, they'll go to the Mantis instead.  Rinthis in the Gaj always strikes me as really strange, but it's sort of necessary the way things are set up.
- Elf and Human rinthis still have other places to congregate away from non-rinthies, if they need to cause some REAL trouble.


There still needs to be a shitty little alley that leads to the Mantis, though, to maintain some separation from Allanak proper.  It just shouldn't be a maze, and it shouldn't have NPCs in it looking to fucking chop you up.  It should be crim-code free, though, so that soldiers don't feel like they're allowed to go patrol it or some shit.

I REALLY like this idea.  A lot.

Technically the Mantis is available to all...  if there are IC issues causing it not to be, then IC actions could be taken.

Technically, the Mantis Valley is available to all, but you wouldn't open a bar up there.

[a french mans shirt]

Why was the Mantis bar closed off from immediate access southside is the real question. Maybe its been addressed at this point.

[Synthesis]

The idea of the Mantis having ready access to Allanak proper is ludicrous...unless you just completely gutted it and made it not the Mantis anymore.

[Jingo]

I agree with that. But just a dive bar on the road of slaves? You probably shouldn't be able to buy spice there, though.

[WanderingOoze]

Technically, the Mantis Valley is available to all, but you wouldn't open a bar up there.

Challenge accepted.

[Riev]

The idea of the Mantis having ready access to Allanak proper is ludicrous...unless you just completely gutted it and made it not the Mantis anymore.

As 'fun and interesting' as it would be, I do agree.

I -would- like if it didn't feel like walking through a minefield, particularly, or if it felt a bit more "neutral" than "surrounded by elves".

But to the topic at hand... there are far too many places for people to gather, and what few are even USED are mostly just crim-code-safe idle spots. We don't need more of those.

[Synthesis]

Walking through the 'rinth is almost perfectly safe (except for PCs) if you look like a 'rinther.  There's like...a single NPC in the entire place that will aggro you just because you're a human, unless they've radically changed things recently.

[Feco]

The idea of the Mantis having ready access to Allanak proper is ludicrous...unless you just completely gutted it and made it not the Mantis anymore.

As 'fun and interesting' as it would be, I do agree.

I -would- like if it didn't feel like walking through a minefield, particularly, or if it felt a bit more "neutral" than "surrounded by elves".

But to the topic at hand... there are far too many places for people to gather, and what few are even USED are mostly just crim-code-safe idle spots. We don't need more of those.

This is why I said it need to still be down some sort of alley without crim-code.  It would be absurd to just have a door into the Mantis near the bazaar.

In such an alley, you could get jumped by PCs, and presumably, virtually, people do get jumped.  There just wouldn't be NPCs there looking to club you to death every single time you walked by.

I'm only advocating that this apply to the Mantis, though.  The rest of the rinth should stay fuck-you-and-everything-about-you level inaccessible/dangerous.

Technically the Mantis is available to all...  if there are IC issues causing it not to be, then IC actions could be taken.

Yeah, but it's in all practical senses inaccessible, mostly because of the NPCs and the distance one has to travel.  It should be dangerous to go there.  But right now, I think it's too dangerous.

Walking through the 'rinth is almost perfectly safe (except for PCs) if you look like a 'rinther.  There's like...a single NPC in the entire place that will aggro you just because you're a human, unless they've radically changed things recently.

There are a ton of aggro NPCs, they wander, and they're very dangerous.  I'd agree that it's fine how it is if looking like a rinthi was easier -- say, by wearing a fucked up cloak to cover your things.  But it doesn't really work like that.  It's very difficult and time consuming to make yourself look inconspicuous to the NPCs.

[Synthesis]

99.9% of the aggro NPCs are only aggro if you have sweet loot.

So...leave your sweet loot at home, if you're going into the 'rinth.  Problem solved.

[Riev]

All that being said? If you really want to get to the 'rinth? Pay someone to clear the way for you first.

[Feco]

99.9% of the aggro NPCs are only aggro if you have sweet loot.

So...leave your sweet loot at home, if you're going into the 'rinth.  Problem solved.

I don't want to get too into it, but they'll take anything that looks like they could get a few sid for it.   Sweet loot is a really, really, really low bar for a lot of the NPCs.

That's the way it should be.  I'd just prefer there were a way to the Mantis to avoid that, is all.  I won't push the point, though.

[Synthesis]

99.9% of the aggro NPCs are only aggro if you have sweet loot.

So...leave your sweet loot at home, if you're going into the 'rinth.  Problem solved.

I don't want to get too into it, but they'll take anything that looks like they could get a few sid for it.   Sweet loot is a really, really, really low bar for a lot of the NPCs.

That's the way it should be.  I'd just prefer there were a way to the Mantis to avoid that, is all.  I won't push the point, though.

This shit is not complicated.

There are a few items that are flagged as 'rinth-safe, because NPCs load with the gear, and the imms don't want a massive NPC Blood Brawl on every reboot.  There may be some cheap items that are flagged as 'rinth-aggro, but...I doubt it.  It seems like a weird thing to code.

Everything else, the cutoff is a hard-coded value of around 50 'sid.

Even if you have literally every possible wear location with something worth 50 'sid on it, and you're ep'ing and es'ing bags of 50 'sid, the NPCs will leave you alone, except for that one NPC that attacks all humans no matter what.

(Again, unless they have radically revamped the 'rinth NPC cast of characters since the last time I played there.)

[Jingo]

They do have a way of luring you into a false sense of security though, gotta say.

True story. I left the computer once while in the 'rinth and came back to 10 pages of combat spam from a weakass npc. Even with the help of friendly npc's I still died.

[Feco]

99.9% of the aggro NPCs are only aggro if you have sweet loot.

So...leave your sweet loot at home, if you're going into the 'rinth.  Problem solved.

I don't want to get too into it, but they'll take anything that looks like they could get a few sid for it.   Sweet loot is a really, really, really low bar for a lot of the NPCs.

That's the way it should be.  I'd just prefer there were a way to the Mantis to avoid that, is all.  I won't push the point, though.

This shit is not complicated.

Yo, I don't know if you're trying to come off as confrontational, but you are.  It's like you're implying I can't understand something simple.

I don't think it works as well and as simple as that.  If nothing else, items might be inconsistently priced such that plenty of stuff you would think is rinth safe, isn't.  Things that are tattered, or ruined, or patched up, or whatever.

This is just informed by my own experiences, and it hasn't been on characters with a high value skill, so take that for whatever it's worth.

But it doesn't matter.  I still think the path to the Mantis is too long, and too dangerous.  I think it would be interesting to make it more practically accessible, and I think it could be done in a way to preserve the area's character.  Specifics about how the mugging-code work don't change my mind on that.

[Riev]

Again. Find someone to escort you there. The 'rinth is lawless for a reason, and you're not going to walk around there with enough coin in your gear to feed a family for a month.

And yet still, on topic, what if taverns were SLIGHTLY less safe? So that instead of "oops I accidentally kicked in a brawl and now 4 HG soldiers are on me", just the soldier on duty comes to try and help?

That script that auto-generates soldiers is a fucking killer.

[Jingo]

Again. Find someone to escort you there. The 'rinth is lawless for a reason, and you're not going to walk around there with enough coin in your gear to feed a family for a month.

And yet still, on topic, what if taverns were SLIGHTLY less safe? So that instead of "oops I accidentally kicked in a brawl and now 4 HG soldiers are on me", just the soldier on duty comes to try and help?

That script that auto-generates soldiers is a fucking killer.

All those off-duty soldiers are sure damn quick on the draw.

I think there should be a delay before crime code comes into effect. Even something as long as five minutes if you're in a hooded cloak.

[Jihelu]

There is a 'low class elf place' in Allanak already.
Go find it.

[Synthesis]

git gud

[Delirium]

Synth, quit baiting. Moderated a post. Be nice to each other.

[Ath]

I guess my big thing is if there is a problem with something in the game that you could technically change in an IC manner, send in a request about it.  Maybe you can change it in an IC manner rather than complaining about it.

If anything, staff these days are much more accessible and willing to work on player plots and ideas.  As for the current places that PCs hang out there is the Gladiator and the Gaj, Red's Retreat, Silver Ginka, and the Arboretum. The Arboretum has some IC restrictions, mainly for Nobles and high status people, Red's is Noble and High Status, but not restrictive at all to other PCs.  The Silver Ginka has no restrictions, more of a tea house that is small, and then you have the Gaj, the commoners main dive bar.

[650Booger]

It seems like alot of this discussion is focused on forcing people into fewer areas to congregate.  While the game playerbase isnt large enough to have huge crowds in all of the current taverns, they should still exist as an option.  Let the players choose where and if they want to congregate somewhere.  I'm also against the closure of Tuluk (even though it was before my time).

as for making the mantis more accessible, definitely gonna vote No on that one.  the mantis should be a place where cutthroats and thieves feel safe to idle a bit.  we can't have every off duty arm/bynner come by, or the thugs wont want to go there anymore.

[Bahliker]

It seems like alot of this discussion is focused on forcing people into fewer areas to congregate.  While the game playerbase isnt large enough to have huge crowds in all of the current taverns, they should still exist as an option.  Let the players choose where and if they want to congregate somewhere.  I'm also against the closure of Tuluk (even though it was before my time).

as for making the mantis more accessible, definitely gonna vote No on that one.  the mantis should be a place where cutthroats and thieves feel safe to idle a bit.  we can't have every off duty arm/bynner come by, or the thugs wont want to go there anymore.

Sounds like that would be the first step toward gentrification. I have to admit that sounds totally sweet. The rinth gets all these dark fantasy hipsters and the locals are pushed underground, literally.

[BadSkeelz]

Would you rather have

A) more bars in the City

B) more drinks out of a single purchase

I'd rather have B.