Suggestion: make nobles actually wealthy

[Dresan]

My suggestion is to make junior nobility relatively poor, make this a cultural fact, that everyone can exploit and benefit from. Codedly they should have enough sid for some small investments but not enough for any real fancy shit. 2k a month is more than enough but even 1k a month should be enough to cover aide to begin with anyways.

Now if they want to stop having to beg their family for money, want to have more things then their siblings, want to have more influence, make their family wealthier or stronger, then they need to go out and sell some of their political savvy. This is basically where I think Tuluk does things right, because its junior nobles seek out and compete for resources called commoners. I think one of those resources they seek out should also be sid too which coincidentally some commoners can make plenty of, if they are given the right protections.

Instead of giving the templar a yearly tax, how about PCs sit down with a noble and work out a deal for protection and political backing, in exchange for a monthly donation and other potential resources  to them and their house, if the business grows it would be a win-win situation for both. But no, instead nobility shouldn't give a shit about sid, influence or even acquiring information. They are filthy rich and alot of their aides are sometimes more concerned with getting new silks instead of finding the right people to make friends with in order to seeking out way to gain influence, sid, resoureces or information.   Thus all they do is sit around doing nothing all day, and try to get schemes going that may or may not involve the rest of the populace at some point in time.  

Yes noble houses are pretty rich, and the each family member is well off for it, but any one individual filthy rich? Na they would need to have earned it. Warren Baffett is also rich, but he still wakes up every morning and goes to work, making deals and investments to make himself and others profit.  Again this is one of the areas tuluk truly does right.

[HavokBlue]

You can bribe people all you want but the number of times I've had a bribe upheld is zero.

I once bribed an NPC Templar to arrest a problem employee so my other minions could deal with them. The Templar took my money and then let the problem employee go and laughed in my face.

Similar experiences bribing PCs!

[wizturbo]

You can bribe people all you want but the number of times I've had a bribe upheld is zero.

I once bribed an NPC Templar to arrest a problem employee so my other minions could deal with them. The Templar took my money and then let the problem employee go and laughed in my face.

Similar experiences bribing PCs!

Weird, that's a rarity for me.  Generally people who take bribes and don't follow through don't get bribes very often after that once word gets around.

[BadSkeelz]

Weird, that's a rarity for me.  Generally people who take bribes and don't follow through don't get bribes very often after that once word gets around.

The key is to kill the person after taking their bribe, so they can't live to spread word.

[Patuk]

I wouldn't use NPC templars as a way of measuring effectivity of amything. I have only ever seen them be animated as ill-tempered.

[Dresan]

Well what I meant was more of a deal, where the noble would benefit monthly, not so much a bride but more of a partnership. Again tuluk is a good example of this half the time, if the noble fails to protect his partison, no one talented will want to work or deal with them in the future, its looks bad on them. And you can bet other nobles will smell blood in the water and at the very least make fun of them, sometimes publicly too.


However Patuk is right on this, when staff animate NPC to deal with a situation they are usually looking for the quickest way to deal with something with the least need for follow up or disruption to the npc. PCs doing this however will not have many more offers and will most likely get knifed in the back someday.  

[Zoan]

I wouldn't use NPC templars as a way of measuring effectivity of amything. I have only ever seen them be animated as ill-tempered.

I wonder if Templars are ever in a good mood. It's like they don't LIKE being Templars.

[HavokBlue]

PC Templars are so over-eager for interaction because they gotta pick up slack for all the NPC Templars who just absolutely despise being tasked with anything.

[Zoan]

Just once I want to meet a workaholic NPC templar who's earnest about representing the common man. Not even in that goddamn village did I meet a templar six feet up his own ass.

[Bast]

Lets not forget nobles can get most people without a blink..save maybe other nobles and their aides with pretty much zero blow back...you get an awesome carriages, houses, and NPC back up from your House that no one else does. That's tangible power to me.

[Bast]

Really too.. money doesn't solve everything if your hated by everyone around you can't get anything done. Totally agreeing with Down Under here. Playing a successful noble or templar requires balance and the ability to get people to work with you towards the same goals.  I'm not saying don't make rivals and enemies but you have to allies and they need to be good ones. If your doing that right, You really don't need money. Ive played some very long lived political PCs in my 11 years on Arm . The nobles that I feel have been the most successful and more fun to play around knew how to balance being scarey and powerful with being someone that inspires and you want to actually be around. Its a social role it requires you being able to be social

[Incognito]

Thankfully, Staff has managed to tweak the incomes of the noble PCs, depending on their particular house's financial standing.

So, nobles of the same rank (in a particular City) actually get different incomes - as should be IC.

Having said that, each house of course has it's own resources and sources of income - that can be exploited by the noble PCs, to augment their regular income.

If the income of a particular house was raised, the income for all other houses in that City would have to be tweaked proportionately, to maintain the balance and realism.

[MeTekillot]

just make it IC for nobles to forage salt. problem solved.

[Bushranger]

just make it IC for nobles to forage salt. problem solved.

You mean Nobles are not allowed to forage for salt?

[MeTekillot]

Northern nobles might be allowed to, with whatever it is of them having hobbies or competence or something?

[solera]

just make it IC for nobles to forage salt. problem solved.

You mean Nobles are not allowed to forage for salt?

Only as a hobby.

[HavokBlue]

they are only allowed to ask minions to forage salt

similarly, if a northern noble wants to sneakily get that dagger in their belt, they need to hire a partisan to steal and then plant it in their inventory

[Patuk]

I'm not sure if nobles would be discouraged from learning how to steal. It is am art, after all. I am sure a botched theft looks a lot worse than a botched untraceable contract, though.

[Desertman]

just make it IC for nobles to forage salt. problem solved.

The salt thing isn't nearly the issue it once was.

Also keep in mind that those salt foragers die pretty often. Sure there are some who live a long time, but you rarely ever see long-lived PC's out foraging salt regularly just to "get them dolla bills".

It might artificially inflate a few newer pc's wealth at times, but, nine out of ten of those PC's end up dead while out in the desert anyways. The ones who go on to live a long time typically are good enough players they don't abuse being able to make fat stacks with salt.

As for nobles, I like the idea of them being ridiculously wealthy. I like the idea of nobles using that ridiculous wealth to CONSTANTLY hire people to do things for them. I want them to think up outlandish, crazy, wild things for people to do for them. Not necessarily stuff they "need", just stuff they "want". Why? Because nobles are ridiculously wealthy and I've always imagined them to be a bit out of touch with "reality". They weren't exactly raised "among the people".

You are a plot starter as a noble. You are a task giver as a noble. You are basically the Dungeon Master of Armageddon, in a lot of ways. Go be an awesome DM to the rest of the playerbase. In my opinion, that is why you have that role and I want you to always have the money to play it well. (I have seen A LOT of them who do EXACTLY this, and I love you all.) 

What I don't want? Don't be a giant cock and randomly kill independent PC's with your staff-given power and wealth. It isn't "cunning". It isn't "intriguing". You are just being a  wanker. You got your power and wealth from staff so you could create plots and tasks, not so you could just randomly have PC's killed.

I've seen some seriously scary nobles/Templars/merchant House family members who I also LOVED to be around. I looked forward to them coming around because I trusted them to play their sponsored roles with their sponsored powers responsibly. I've also been around the ones who equate "killing randoms" as "entertainment". They quickly get avoided and aren't played with anymore. They aren't entertaining. They aren't fun to be around. So, they clan play alone.

tldr: Give nobles a lot of money. Crazy amounts. Then, let them spend it on wild stuff constantly that pulls in lots of people to do things for them. If they aren't constantly doing that....they can "retire to the estate", and someone else can step into that role.

[Is Friday]

Everybody wants nobles to give people plots and stuff that benefits their awesome adventure, but nobody wants to play a loyal minion.

[Marauder Moe]

I like playing loyal minions.

[Aruven]

I like playing loyal minions.

[Delirium]

Everybody wants nobles to give people plots and stuff that benefits their awesome adventure, but nobody wants to play a loyal useful minion.

I like playing useful minions. Loyalty ain't too hard to buy. Usefulness is like finding gold.

[Is Friday]

Yup.

[valeria]

I like playing loyal minions.

Mine aren't always useful or loyal, but I enjoy minoning.