Suggestion: make nobles actually wealthy

[KankWhisperer]

I wish Nobles would be more interesting in peddling influence or things only they can do for GMHs for coins. Now it seems at times they'd rather just pretend they are equally rich. So they end up being just a very hard to deal with customer.

[Armaddict]

I wish Nobles would be more interesting in peddling influence or things only they can do for GMHs for coins. Now it seems at times they'd rather just pretend they are equally rich. So they end up being just a very hard to deal with customer.

"Well, M'lord Borsail, we'd be happy to slash that price in half for you so that you can continue your work in improving the city.  If you have your soldiers or ask a templar to break the wheels on that indy merchant's wagon, it would lower their competition and we'd be able to easily afford it.  I'll even throw in this free yogurt, with the deal."

[KankWhisperer]

I wish Nobles would be more interesting in peddling influence or things only they can do for GMHs for coins. Now it seems at times they'd rather just pretend they are equally rich. So they end up being just a very hard to deal with customer.

"Well, M'lord Borsail, we'd be happy to slash that price in half for you so that you can continue your work in improving the city.  If you have your soldiers or ask a templar to break the wheels on that indy merchant's wagon, it would lower their competition and we'd be able to easily afford it.  I'll even throw in this free yogurt, with the deal."

Why not ask templar directly?

[KankWhisperer]

They should change thread to Suggestion:make nobles more useful

[Armaddict]

Perhaps they did, but the templar had no immediate need for said merchant, so they had no bargaining chip.  It was just a quip, not meant to mean anything in particular. XD

[wizturbo]

Nobles are supposed to be the ones with tons of political capital.  This is best realized when there are a lot of political plots.  Encourage/build a lot of politics and nobles become powerful.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Tuluk had a good idea for Nobles being in charge of various sections of the city. The issue is that that was just in the city ... if this power extended further, to the full lands of the respective Kingdoms, this would help.

In the south, for instance, you ought to need Fale's permission to throw a public event, or catch a knife from a Whatsit and/or Militia. You ought to need to graduate Tor's Academy to land an officer job, commoner or noble House alike, or just don't ask to be promoted in the South beyond Corporal. You ought to need Oash's permission to travel with or knock knees with magickers period, or see the blade of the Elites and/or Militia. You ought to need Borsail-distributed licenses, priced by animal type, to hunt in the south, or face the wrath of the Ambers, and/or Militia. All of these are bucks in Nobles' pockets.

There are easy ways to make every House necessary, and it's not even out of character or much of a stretch.

[MeTekillot]

I like Venom's idea.

[Tetra]

Oops!  Nevermind

[Dakota]

Nobles are in a position to extort and create plots which can bring about sums of wealth. They're poor Nobles. They're rich Nobles.

Finding lone / indie PCs and sponsoring them is a great method to make coins or situations that will lead to the payout. In addition it involves other PCs, which is part of the job of being a Noble.

[Semper]

Nobles are in a position to extort and create plots which can bring about sums of wealth. They're poor Nobles. They're rich Nobles.

Finding lone / indie PCs and sponsoring them is a great method to make coins or situations that will lead to the payout. In addition it involves other PCs, which is part of the job of being a Noble.

In theory yes, but this doesnt work out that way IG, which is why threads like this crop up. If a PC wants to remain independent, there is no incentive for them to help out a Noble and give over their hard-earned coins, since its difficult to get by as it is. Why I (and possibly others) think that Nobles need more wealth/power is so that these independent PCs actually have an incentive to join a Noble House, and Nobles have a resource to fund and generate plots for their minions.

[Semper]

The answer doesnt lie within forcing PCs to join or help Nobles. If a Noble is able to be the plot generator that their role asks of them, then players should naturally be wanting to gravitate toward one or another Noble. Why? Because things are better for their PC ig, their pc gets more influence and involvement into city politics, and they get other interesting characters to interact with, just to name a few... Im not sure if I can say that this happens already, but that would be my kind of ideal political situation.

[gotdamnmiracle]

With more bureaucracy come more cheating bureaucracy. I like venoms idea.

[Malken]

Hunting licenses/taxes/quota never ever ever ever ever ever ever worked in game and it's been attempted a billion times by a billion nobles.

[Bushranger]

Tuluk had a good idea for Nobles being in charge of various sections of the city. The issue is that that was just in the city ... if this power extended further, to the full lands of the respective Kingdoms, this would help.

When there were governors in Tuluk it did cover most of Gol Krathu, not just inside Tuluk.

Hunting licenses/taxes/quota never ever ever ever ever ever ever worked in game and it's been attempted a billion times by a billion nobles.

This is true. If anyone playing a Noble thinks they can make it work however then I wouldn't let the past stop you from their plot ideas - besides being a poacher can be fun! I've tried to play a spice smuggler a billion time (well, not quite) but have yet to be truly successful - perhaps the billion and first will become my Avon Barksdale!

[bcw81]

Tuluk had a good idea for Nobles being in charge of various sections of the city. The issue is that that was just in the city ... if this power extended further, to the full lands of the respective Kingdoms, this would help.

In the south, for instance, you ought to need Fale's permission to throw a public event, or catch a knife from a Whatsit and/or Militia. You ought to need to graduate Tor's Academy to land an officer job, commoner or noble House alike, or just don't ask to be promoted in the South beyond Corporal. You ought to need Oash's permission to travel with or knock knees with magickers period, or see the blade of the Elites and/or Militia. You ought to need Borsail-distributed licenses, priced by animal type, to hunt in the south, or face the wrath of the Ambers, and/or Militia. All of these are bucks in Nobles' pockets.

There are easy ways to make every House necessary, and it's not even out of character or much of a stretch.

It did extend further - Qynar were in the city, Striasiri were outside.

[Riev]

The issue with Qynar and Striarsi is that the system itself wasn't all that fleshed out, as I understood it. It kind of became a Noble's purpose to govern the Qynar but they actually had no power to DO anything. They couldn't police, they couldn't open shops or make new buildings. The idea was sound but the application left a lot wanting.

7DV has almost never had an idea I didn't agree with. Rather than a nobles-owning-sections-of-the-city plan, I like the idea that certain house ACTUALLY control certain things, to the level that the Bard's Circle in Tuluk basically owns performances. But a step further.

Remember when half the idea of the Byn, was to train for a year, and suddenly you get a "Yeah, I'm Byn trained" recommendation? Or when working for Salarr for <x> years meant you actually get a HOUSE recommendation? Noble houses could be similar, in 7DVs suggestion. If Oash wants to tame a wild creature, they have to talk to Borsail. If you want to host a party that has more than a few people showing up, better let Fale know. If there are things the Houses are actually RESPONSIBLE for, it gives its Nobles and PCs something to focus on. This would help them make their coin from commoners, and exert their political influence.

[Marauder Moe]

7DV has a fair idea, but it's not really all that far off from reality, nor would it really take much/any changes to take it further.

Oash has always had at least an interest in any notable people/organizations dealing with gemmed.

Tor Academy training was (while open) indeed considered a requirement for any soldier of Sergeant rank or above.

Borsail is often in a weird spot due to the staff involvement required for their trade, but capturing living beings was certainly their thing.

Fale... well, if you don't have the current Fale PC helping to plan your party then you run the risk of them attending as a guest.


The difference between specialty and authority is really just how far the current PC nobles want to take it.  Nothing is stopping PC nobles from just deciding that PC activities of their affinity require their permission, they just need to be willing to put in the work required to support and enforce it.

[solera]

To answer the question of the OP. Poor nobles must tax rich unafiliated commoners Which has probably been said.
Despite anything, as PCs or ooc I still feel nobles can do as they wish, anytime,  to any of my commoners.

[HavokBlue]

Your junior noble from House Fuckwood can decide he gets to grant permission for all fuckwood trade in the city, but as soon as that junior templar who doesn't like you decides he wants his buddy to be able to buy and sell fuckwood without your permission, you are fucked.

The status quo such as it is results in PC templars that can override and cancel out anything any PC noble attempts to do, because no matter how high or far your PC noble rises, that week old PC templar is still higher on the rung and gets to determine what you can and can't do.

[nauta]

Your junior noble from House Fuckwood can decide he gets to grant permission for all fuckwood trade in the city, but as soon as that junior templar who doesn't like you decides he wants his buddy to be able to buy and sell fuckwood without your permission, you are fucked.

The status quo such as it is results in PC templars that can override and cancel out anything any PC noble attempts to do, because no matter how high or far your PC noble rises, that week old PC templar is still higher on the rung and gets to determine what you can and can't do.

Hi,

I think this is why the suggestion was to make these sorts of things House-related (with a small update to documentation).  Sure, the PC templar can override the PC noble, but then the virtual members of the House Fuckwood will be like: Nuh-uh, and then there'd be conflict!  Also, I suspect that one reason that the idea of a noble laying claim to some resource outside the city seems to have fallen flat in the past (to judge by a comment or two above) is because it was just that PC - but if the House owned it, then violators (poachers, etc.) would be violating the docs, and so there'd be at least some means to get them, even if the PC in question doesn't have any minions to actually go get them.

[MeTekillot]

To curb that, a PC noble can suck up to the other 2-3 active templars to back him up, maybe? I mean, if that one Templar really doesn't want to play ball, I guess you could pay som--- oh. Right. Hm.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I suggested making Houses responsible for things in an official manner so as to automatically create things for both the nobles and the noble's minions to enforce and provide. It provides a steady income for the noble as well, creating wealth, you understand, like this thread originally discussed. The Elites and Scorpions and Whatsits and Ambers have real jobs now, not just pseudo jobs.

The reason I suggest making these Houses officially responsible rather than just some guy poking his nose into things is that it forces interaction as well, and an oppressive atmosphere, without the Noble having to doom and despair everyone who follows the 'rules'. You know you can speak to the Borsail and/or his Aide for a license to hunt scrab, and it's oppressive, the regulation, but he doesn't have to cower you in order to get your money. It's the law. You know you have to get chased by Ambers if you don't go that route, maybe even get exiled if you go too far. Yeah, you'll line that noble's pockets, or get whatever license you had revoked.

[HavokBlue]

the other 2-3 active templars

[MeTekillot]

two blue-robed female templars?