Leadership Taxicab Confessional

[Down Under]

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A noble sends you a telepathic message:
"Are you coming to the party?"

Another Noble sends you a telepathic message:
"Don't go to the party."

A Templar sends a telepathic message:
"Did you hear there's a party?"

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

Amos sends you a telepathic message:
"Sup."

[MeTekillot]

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A noble sends you a telepathic message:
"Are you coming to the party?"

Another Noble sends you a telepathic message:
"Don't go to the party."

A Templar sends a telepathic message:
"Did you hear there's a party?"

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

You sense a foreign presence withdraw from your mind.

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

Amos sends you a telepathic message:
"Sup."

ftfy

[Asanadas]

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

You think, "Amos, from the great LUIR. Go."

Feeling agitated, you think, "Amos, go."

>expel

[KankWhisperer]

That stagnation largely sets in because often you realize that there's not much you can really DO once you've made it in your specific niche.

That's clans for you. Punch down. Get punched from above. You can't change anything.

Watch indies get to go stupid stuff. The only way you can get involved is to be willfully stupid and forget about House documentation and your job sometimes. Let's go adventuring because uhm..yeah to adventure!

Talia's said that she and maybe other staff likes it when you stir shit up. I really don't find that to be my experience. They like it when certain people stir things up. If you are not one of them they'd rather you just plod along and don't make more work for them.

You get an idea, you filter it through your character's personality, then documentation, then staff, and by then it is nothing worth doing.

You get staff attention and sometimes it is great, but it's hard sometimes to have a meaningful encounter. They send a challenge at you and it won't wipe you out. It will just wipe out the new players. Then the older players get to rebuild again. Yay.

With our stagnant status of most clans in the world, they are boring. It is a struggle for me to find something that makes sense to do that is actually fun and not out of character or just stupid.

And the request system is just terrible sometimes. I'd rather have a scheduled and logged chat session or something.

As a reward for being clanned, you get less coins, less fun, less skill, and less conflict.  Clans need a purpose other than to exist.

[HavokBlue]

You're on a roll with the negativity today.

[aeglaeca]

And the request system is just terrible sometimes. I'd rather have a scheduled and logged chat session or something.

This would be really nice, even if it was like a once a RL month thing supplementary. Requests have a sort of message in a bottle feel to me sometimes. You never really know when they're getting read.

[Mook]

I'm blowing off steam on the GDB. 

Kids these days.  At least you have a request tool to make requests with.  And you get to prioritize your stats.  And you can use the 'stop' command because it exists now.  And you can see your skill levels?  (lol wot)  And you get game-breaking extended subguilds.  And you get to play on Saturday.  In myyyyyyy day...

   ...uphill through the sandstorm, both ways!

  AND WE LIKED IT.

[MeTekillot]

"game-breaking extended subguilds"

[Armaddict]

I'm blowing off steam on the GDB. 

Kids these days.  At least you have a request tool to make requests with.  And you get to prioritize your stats.  And you can use the 'stop' command because it exists now.  And you can see your skill levels?  (lol wot)  And you get game-breaking extended subguilds.  And you get to play on Saturday.  In myyyyyyy day...

   ...uphill through the sandstorm, both ways!

  AND WE LIKED IT.

I lol'd.  You forgot the part where if you lost your throwaway character, it was still a huge loss because you probably wouldn't get your next throwaway character approved for days.

[Harmless]

Deleted.

[Narf]

Does anyone else ever daydream about a violent coup where your underlings throw you out of power and force you to serve them in the new organizational order?

"Please underling, don't take all of my responsibilities away! I will fight you until my dieing breath... or until vaguely winded... Or tea time, which actually is about now isn't it? Whelp, guess you win. Here's the crown."

[Is Friday]

Dunno if I'm a "leader" by the elitist definition of such in this thread

This thread isn't really for opinions of folks that haven't been tapped to be a leader IG. If you want to start a thread for folks that want to encourage or nitpick leaders who haven't been leaders themselves, you're more than welcome to.

[wizturbo]

That stagnation largely sets in because often you realize that there's not much you can really DO once you've made it in your specific niche.

In my opinion, the staff just need to get busy fucking with people more.  Random stuff, without some large over arching plot line.  Zalanthas is a dangerous place, random unexpected horrible shit should happen often.  Once you're in your niche, it shouldn't be easy to stay there and coast.

A Salarri merchant role might be dull, acting as an item dispenser and people manager...except when you take that wagon out and Gith raiders attack.  Kadian hunters who ride out to kill some carru for their hides might be routine...except this time a tribe of desert elves has declared these hunting grounds part of their territory and wants revenge!  Shit like that.  Random encounters would spice up the game tremendously, and give leaders some thing real to deal with once in a while. 

[MeTekillot]

It's dull because what you can feasibly achieve is somewhat underwhelming. No one wants to play keepy-uppy in order not to lose all their hard-earned pittances.

[HavokBlue]

In my experience, staff are generally willing to get behind most things that involve more than just your small circle of PC buddies, make sense in the game world, and don't function solely to kill PCs.

You want to use clan money to bankroll raiders to kill off hunters who won't work for you? You are probably going to get a stern look. You want to use clan money to fund an excavation of a mostly arbitrary location in the hopes that you dig up some lost ruins or treasure? You could be in luck, if you bring other clans into it, and you communicate regularly about your in-game efforts.

[Tetra]

The question shouldn't be, "How can we kill as many people as possible."  It should be, "How can we create an intriguing plot with some tangible impact/outcome, but high risks."

The incentive here being PC goal/story progression and possibly notoriety in exchange for said risks.  Just my opinion.

[bcw81]

The question shouldn't be, "How can we kill as many people as possible."  It should be, "How can we create an intriguing plot with some tangible impact/outcome, but high risks."

The incentive here being PC goal/story progression and possibly notoriety in exchange for said risks.  Just my opinion.

The problem with 'High Risk' plots is that they actually have to be 'high risk'. Going about these kinds of things are well and good, but if you can't keep yourself from feeling the burn of your 'high risk', you're going to likely die.

[ShaLeah]

The question shouldn't be, "How can we kill as many people as possible."  It should be, "How can we create an intriguing plot with some tangible impact/outcome, but high risks."

The incentive here being PC goal/story progression and possibly notoriety in exchange for said risks.  Just my opinion.

The problem with 'High Risk' plots is that they actually have to be 'high risk'. Going about these kinds of things are well and good, but if you can't keep yourself from feeling the burn of your 'high risk', you're going to likely die.

Be the change.

Some people THINK they'd be good leaders but really are the kinds of people who's enjoyment of the game rests solely in the hands of whatever their leaders tell them to do.

It's easy as hell to say "leaders should do XYZ!", the thing is every situation is different and every leader is different. Even within the guidelines of whatever clan you're running there's no guarantee that your vision will be the vision of your peers. And when you're an independent you still have to follow MUD rules that aren't in place yet because you don't have a clan and maybe you don't realize that what you're doing or thinking about doing is stupid and would never fly in a million years.

Be the change people!

[flurry]

That stagnation largely sets in because often you realize that there's not much you can really DO once you've made it in your specific niche.

In my opinion, the staff just need to get busy fucking with people more.  Random stuff, without some large over arching plot line.  Zalanthas is a dangerous place, random unexpected horrible shit should happen often.  Once you're in your niche, it shouldn't be easy to stay there and coast.

A Salarri merchant role might be dull, acting as an item dispenser and people manager...except when you take that wagon out and Gith raiders attack.  Kadian hunters who ride out to kill some carru for their hides might be routine...except this time a tribe of desert elves has declared these hunting grounds part of their territory and wants revenge!  Shit like that.  Random encounters would spice up the game tremendously, and give leaders some thing real to deal with once in a while.

It seems to me this is one limitation of the player-driven approach. When it comes to environmental threats (wildlife hordes, etc.), players can respond to what's there, but generally don't have the power to create those kinds of problems. Of course I understand staff still do stir things up this way, and players can initiate other kinds of plots.

[Aruven]

That stagnation largely sets in because often you realize that there's not much you can really DO once you've made it in your specific niche.

In my opinion, the staff just need to get busy fucking with people more.  Random stuff, without some large over arching plot line.  Zalanthas is a dangerous place, random unexpected horrible shit should happen often.  Once you're in your niche, it shouldn't be easy to stay there and coast.

A Salarri merchant role might be dull, acting as an item dispenser and people manager...except when you take that wagon out and Gith raiders attack.  Kadian hunters who ride out to kill some carru for their hides might be routine...except this time a tribe of desert elves has declared these hunting grounds part of their territory and wants revenge!  Shit like that.  Random encounters would spice up the game tremendously, and give leaders some thing real to deal with once in a while. 

This is interesting. I'm not someone who would extol my leadership skills or roleplaying ability, I think I am qualified to say leaders need to take hits for their team to make shit happen sometime, and honestly I see a lot of times they aren't willing too.

When I played my Salarri sponsored role I was in a super fucked up political situation and it wasn't getting any better. It was one of my first roles as a 'leader' and it was pretty sensitive both due to staff expectation (I might be able to find an e-mail where a staffer literally told me they hadn't been on board with me getting the role) and IC circumstance.
I literally did what you said above once. I even missed the gulch the first time I tried to find it in a sandstorm blind in a wagon! But I was gunning to have our wagon go overboard. There was an RPT going on elsewhere, so I knew staff were around lurking, I had a couple clan members with me. So I said YOLO.
Now the next part is luck, it would have been kind of stupid had staff not gotten involved. I am pretty sure, despite the dangers, that the players involved probably enjoyed some of the interactions that followed. Wouldn't have happened if my testicles were still in my butt. Just do stuff. Nyr will dock your Karma and yell at you later.
Obviously there's limits. Everyone knows what I am talking about. Yes, do unorthodox stuff ; No, that does not mean using your clan or NPC bodyguards to wipe out a tavern.

But the idea is leaders need to make extraordinary situations to spice things up sometimes, just using their own creativity. (This has paid off massively, and also gotten me killed, but still paid off massively) And it needs to be at their expense. Right now, staff HAVE to be involved or its too difficult. PC leaders don't have the juice like that. I already mentioned elsewhere I really think glass ceilings need to go. Its simple progression ; The best example I have is a certain PC player who played a PC templar for YEARS. Their achievements even if they had slow time over those years and vanished from time to time would have merited them substantial recognition. But because of glass ceilings and the fear of 'ostracizing' a player we dont do it? Come on. Reward your long-standing players. This is apparently the Karma system, but it seems kind of flawed to me.

I didn't get a karma for four years and then I requested my notes, got a karma. I had tagged in a message something politely akin to (wtf guys am I that bad after many years? No roleplay where I might get a karma here?) --> The response was something like 'No request in 4 years, expected to request' .... Ok... what is the review flag for? I must have missed the part where I only get rewarded when I put my monthly request in asking to be rewarded. Cool, there are gaps of updates because I take long breaks, I can miss things.

Boring, because i know exactly how every conversation with my staff will go ; the same way they've gone over the past couple years if im trying to make permanent changes (or often just do something new). I'm sure i'm not alone in saying that the GDB community would LAUGH at some of the staff e-mails i've sent back and forth trying to get stuff done and some of the reasonings and responses I got in return. It would get to the point where i would almost type a message back and say things like "Just tell me it doesn't fit into YOUR plot next time so I don't have to read a page bs on why the answer is 'no'." At one point i was practicing argumentation with a staff member on economics trying to justify something and ultimately was just like ; "Wtf am I doing? These guys obviously have something they want to see...." So I just dropped issues in the end. Killed my want to be a leader past just contributing to the player base enjoyment.

Then again sometimes my clan staff would do animations and roleplay with us like 3-4 times a week, and I had 0 complaints. But that was really rare, and apparently consistent interaction is frowned upon.

So, in retrospect ; (TLDR)

1. Be spontaneous as a leader within reason
2. Glass ceilings need to go and would probably give long-standing players more incentive to play leadership roles.
3. Karma system seems a bit off to me. Granted, I barely toy or play with the roles I have already acquired (Waiting for those level 8s, you know) but sponsored and leadership roles need more motivation than exposure for karma. Karma has never been a driving reason to play this game. Just an interesting one.
4. Long-standing players in leadership roles need to be trusted and given more opportunity and progression. I'm cool with this being case-by-case because I trust my staff to act fairly (Since we HAVE to trust this anyways, I mean we don't have a choice ultimately). Its fun making a character because of the possibility. Its boring when you know you're a junior noble for life for 5 RL years and just intend to play the same plots with different names involved over and over. Aint nobody got time for that.

[Nyr]

For what it is worth:

We have no fears of ostracizing a PC.  We do have fears of PCs having as much power as a staff member in terms of influencing plot and the rest of the game without the same oversight that staff have, so they generally won't (i.e. no Red Robes or their equivalent, no senior nobles).  Instead of raising the glass ceiling, we have provided other options.  See:  player-clan progression (you don't like the glass ceiling, then make your own house).  Still limited, to a degree, but you are ultimately answerable to yourself and a reasonable gameworld rather than a clan structure that is (let's be honest) way bigger than your PC.  We also are willing to work with long-lived PCs in leadership roles (sponsored or otherwise) to bring their role to an acceptable end, with the understanding that it will be an end.  That may mean promotion into a role that is not PC playable (so you play it out for a short while and then are stored).  That may mean a plot that, if successful for you, works out in the aforementioned promotion--and if a failure for you, works out in death or disgrace.  That may simply mean us making a cool death for your PC, which further helps out the gameworld.

Yes, it is important for you to request account notes if you have not received any karma and expect your account to be reviewed.  You might slip under the radar otherwise.  No, the review flag doesn't really mean much because we have account notes requests, which is you soliciting staff for review (at most often, every 6 months).

Even with the existing glass ceiling we've already talked about how clans are being restructured in many cases to have more upwards mobility, and not just have lateral options and perks.  It is a slow process and will tend to be that way--normal staffing stuff comes first.

When we have a lot of staff we have a lot of animations.  When we have fewer staff we have fewer animations.  Animating and helping plot in one's clans are both very important goals for staff; it is not frowned upon, but we are limited sometimes by our workload.  This is something we've been discussing on the Producer side of things.

[Delusion]

We do have fears of PCs having as much power as a staff member in terms of influencing plot and the rest of the game without the same oversight that staff have, so they generally won't (i.e. no Red Robes or their equivalent, no senior nobles).

Why? Those sorts of PCs are as powerless as any other sort to influence the world, since it still takes staff to as much as tweak a room description or add an NPC or whatnot. But their presence would at least add to the illusion of PC actions mattering somewhat to affect more than just other PCs - ultimately, pof a Red Robe would still have to ask staff for things.

As is, a person can roll a ranger, have them be able to earn more money through a few hours of salting than a junior noble's stipend for an RL week, get combat experience (and skills) far more quickly than most clanned military-type PCs are allowed to, and probably join in with or form a crew that can quite easily end up more powerful than the PC element of either city's militia, gemmed and groups of rogue magickers notwithstanding. All that without the requirement to pretend such things as "Look at how rich that noble is!" (they're poor) or "Wow, that veteran soldier sure is buff." (not compared to that 2 RL month old hunter) or even "Yeah, this person's going places, I should support them." That last one's the worst. Knowing that a character's guaranteed storage if they achieve promotion past a point - helping them to achieve that promotion is basically supporting them into non-existence.

Eh. I don't post much and already feel like a broken record. I'll leave that there.

Edited to make my wording clearer.

[Desertman]

I've found that trying to actually "change" the game world and expecting staff to go along with that is almost always going to fail. If it requires a lot of direct staff effort your chances go down exponentially. Apparently these guys act like they are volunteers with a lot going on...which is silly amirite?

What I have found is staff is entirely willing to go along with almost anything you want to do so long as you are the one driving the wagon. If it doesn't require staff putting in direct hours to make it happen, and basically just amounts to them telling you to, "Do what you think you can do IC'ly.", they will work with you.

I'm fine with that. I've put in changes where they've told me straight, "This is not going to live past the life of your current character most likely, but have fun with it.".  No problem, I'm on it.

I'm fine with that because mostly the only thing I want is for people to step back, give me the reins, and let me drive. I don't expect you to upgrade my wagon or pimp my ride, I just want to be the one steering for as long as it takes me to wreck this shit in a horrible glorious fireball.

So my advice...make as many changes as you want, but make sure your changes are something your PC can do with minimal or no staff help and they will almost always tell you to go wild...unless you start breaking the game, they don't like that.

[palomar]

I believe, and it is definitely so in my own case, that some of the glass ceiling frustration comes from the fact that the policy to restrict higher ranked PCs (Red robes, High Templars, Senior Nobles etc) was put in place before there was a solid replacement in terms of lateral promotions and rewards. I would have an easier time accepting that I can't be a Senior Noble ever, unless it's promotion into storage, if there's a clear but not hewn in stone structure to handle the "five years of junior rank boredom" mentioned above. Hopefully there will be such structures for all applicable clans in the not too distant future, and perhaps also with a splash of the upwards mobility Nyr mentioned.

[Desertman]

I've posted it before and I'll post it again.

I really don't see the problem with glass ceilings. You can still exceed them functionally if not codedly.

If your Blue Robe Templar is so influential, successful, and powerful that you would be promoted to a Red Robe without the issue of the glass ceiling, you WILL be able to do pretty much anything a Red Robe PC would be able to do anyways, minus the stuff that would require staff intervention (which is why the glass ceiling is there to begin with).

A Blue Robe might not be able to call up an army like a Red Robe could if staff were online and willing to help them call up said army. Anything outside of that, I don't see the issue.

If your Blue Robe is strong enough and influential enough to be promoted to a Red Robe in practice, then you will still get the same respect and command the same power over other PC's you would with the coded rank anyways.

The only thing Armageddon is, is player to player interaction. Your player to player interactions determine your level of power up until the point that staff steps in to animate NPC's from higher ranking organizations.

If you are playing a Byn Sergeant that WOULD be promoted to a Lieutenant without the glass ceiling, and you've earned that promotion in game, you are going to get the same respect in game from other players as if you had already earned that rank.

The only difference is staff can still animate Lieutenants or above to dick you or help you. As for your PC to PC interactions, there really won't be any difference if you have actually earned that promotion even if you don't codedly have it.

If you are playing a noble who has earned the prestige, rank, and notoriety that would otherwise allow you to be a Senior Noble without glass ceilings, you are going to get the same respect from other players as if you were a Senior Noble.

The only difference is staff can still animate Senior Nobles to either dick you or help you. If you have earned the accolades required to get the promotion, you will get the respect as if you did have it from the other players in the game.

Basically, the glass ceiling rule only affects your PC to NPC interactions and your ability to change/affect the static game world which would require staff assistance anyways. It doesn't really affect your PC to PC interactions in my opinion because PC's are still going to give you as much respect, fear, and loyalty as you have earned regardless of your coded rank.

I've absolutely interacted with some nobles that I feared a lot more than other nobles and gave a lot more respect to than other nobles because of what they had accomplished and achieved. For any meaningful PC interactions, they were Senior Nobles in practice, if not in rank. The same goes for some Templars I have known. The list goes on an on for pretty much every organization with a glass ceiling cap on the rank structure.