Leadership Taxicab Confessional

[MeTekillot]

I enjoy having tools trust me.

[Kismetic]

I enjoy having tools trust me.

I enjoy killing your PCs.

[Suhuy]

Players who flake on their role the moment they have been recruited; players who flake on their role a week after they have been recruited; players not taking initiative to be part of a clan's (or individual clan leader's) goals and objectives; the struggle to coordinate online times with multiple characters at once; the struggle to keep things interesting for underlings; having to wait at length for the resources needed to run a plot.

Just some of the things that really burn my britches when playing a leadership role

[Malken]

The real nightmare is the minion guy/girl that plays Armageddon 18 hours a day and complete all the "goals" you give them within a day

Not really on topic, but it's kinda why I prefer to associate with people who are not in the game 18 hours a day, they don't make you feel like you should be in the game 18 hours a day as well and you don't feel as guilty when you don't feel/can't log in for a while (that goes for minions/lovers/partners in crime etc..)

[Desertman]

I love that player. They just got elected to be my right-hand man/woman. That is the one I can utilize to basically be my eyes, ears, and even voice if I trust them enough when I'm not available....because they always are.

[ShaLeah]

The real nightmare is the minion guy/girl that plays Armageddon 18 hours a day and complete all the "goals" you give them within a day

Not really on topic, but it's kinda why I prefer to associate with people who are not in the game 18 hours a day, they don't make you feel like you should be in the game 18 hours a day as well and you don't feel as guilty when you don't feel/can't log in for a while (that goes for minions/lovers/partners in crime etc..)

I love that player. They just got elected to be my right-hand man/woman. That is the one I can utilize to basically be my eyes, ears, and even voice if I trust them enough when I'm not available....because they always are.

Thou shalt not penalize addicted players for their IC efficiency.

[Tuannon]

When you're twinking to get things done, I'll abuse the shit out of you. OOCly.

[Rathustra]

My first ever leadership PC.

Introduced to new clan members, shown around amazing skytop fortress.

Let loose - "Ok gang let's go do X!"

Head outside with entire clan following me.

Head west - fall off of long drop - everyone knocked unconscious in a place where you don't want to be unconscious.

Good times.

[Kol]

My first leadership PC lasted 2 RL weeks, before leading half a band of Mercs into the silt-sea ('cus the shield walls overrated!) he also whipped an underling to death by accident, and had to wish up to get him rezzed. Don't think the player was too happy about the situation, I personally felt embarrassed/amused, and I think the staffer who handled it thought it was hilarious and annoying at the same time.

I honestly believe I suck at leadership roles. I generally die too quick to make any lasting impact, or see any real political action. I did have real fun with my last one though, flawed as hell, pretty stupid in political matters, and an all-round bumbling idiot. Can't wait until the years up, there's some good stories there.

The main problems I've found though are pretty much the same as other people, keeping minions alive/interested is a struggle, making sure everyone's having a good time and keeping yourself entertained can be a slog, and managing to find or create plots large enough to include everyone, or other clans either ends in failure, a dead end, setbacks or just gets shot down.

That being said, I have respect for anyone who manages to make a leadership role stick, make a real name for themselves, and keep their particular group alive long enough to do big things.

[Large Hero]

Last leader I played: main gripe was being unable to find a single useful, interested minion outside of my own group. I had all the money and prestige one could want. In talks with prospective minions, I heavily insinuated that I was a generous benefactor to the loyal, and that I had plans within plans for them to assist me in completing.

I was stunned at the amount of people who fobbed me off with a thinly-veiled IC communication of the OOC desire to remain independent. There were 3 or 4 separate nobody PCs who essentially told me that they'd rather remain poor. Really?

The few I was able to find who were interested had mush for brains either ICly or OOCly, or had the personalities of plain oatmeal, ICly or OOCly. The one guy I recruited died instantly outside the city walls despite my warning him it would happen.

I was unable to find one singular dependable minion after over a month of trying every day. Sadly, that experience showed me that a lot of people who play this game would really rather play Rich Indie Mudsex Simulator than Armageddon MUD.

[aeglaeca]

I'm a newb to Arm but I've played plenty of rp-oriented mu*s.

From an OOC minion perspective, just offering huge rewards (whether it's gear, coin or anything else that might constitute a huge reward in a text game) isn't enough to keep a player interested or even to bait the hook with. Any character you get to jump with pure coin probably isn't going to be worth the time.

It may work if you're recruiting a newbie, but it's going to work a lot better for you to offer a job that sounds interesting and present your character as someone who will be interested in the character's wellbeing rather than the fullness of his wallet. I can't speak to how much of plot-in-plot was insinuated, of course, but it does help to ask what the potential minion's goals might be.

Basically, there is a lot to be said for the natural charisma of a leadership character, or the amount you can round your leadership character's tics and recruiting spiel out for the initial half an hour you sit down with a character for the first time to try to snag them.

[bcw81]

When playing my Byn sergeant, I learned the best way to get people to want to join you is to shout at them constantly, tell them that if they fuck up you're going cut off their eyelids and hang them by their toes with a rope made of their entrails while flaying them alive, then rip out their lungs from their chest to dangle (making sure to imply that they would live to feel their last, horrifically painful breaths). Pretty sure that was the only reason I had so many damn people joining every day.

>.>

Definitely wasn't just because it's the Byn and that's to be expected.

<.<

Definitely.

[Desertman]

My first ever leader was a Byn Sergeant named Rellion.

The something something white-eyed man as I recall.

Damn good times. This was back before the big ranger nerf of doom. I fought Paryl in the arena once and lost because I decided to surrender because our fight was taking so long the crowd was starting to boo. I fought him again in the arena a couple of IC years later, and screw the crowd...I stayed until I won that one. I got "crowned" Champion of Allanak and staff did some fun little room echoes of children following me around in a little fan-gaggle. Good times.

So many gith battles. Armies of gith. More than once.

One gith battle was a mini reenactment of the story about the gith sieging the T'zai Byn's fort in the Red Desert. They actually sieged us while we were there and we spent a couple of days shooting them and fighting them off from the wall before storming out to clear them. (I thought up and arranged this event with staff ahead of time back when you could still kind of "Dungeon Master" your own Byn RPT's as a Sergeant.)

I led my unit against the blue dragon worm thing that was attacking Allanak at the time. The exploding balls of glass were particularly awesome. I went toe to toe one on one with the white-armored figure who was leading a band of magicky minions in the mines of Allanak against the militia/the T'zai Byn. I don't think staff wanted me to actually attack him in retrospect. He died almost instantly. I think we were intended to wade through his minions first. Screw him. I won.

I fought salt golems on the salt flats summoned up by the previously mentioned gent with my unit. I also had the templarate gift to him a certain shield item that was pretty freaking sweet for, "Leading the defense of Allanak.".

Back when a horde of undead wanted to roll out of the rinth complete with child suicide bombers using the now long gone flash powder in backpacks....those were particularly good times. I recall seeing a couple of PC's getting blown to bits. Rellion didn't die, but I lost a Runner in that one in glorious Runner-bits fashion. Awesome RPT.

And a lot of other things I just can't recall now.

He died to a huge horde of spiders when he kept rescuing his underlings and taking all of the spiders on himself...and that is when I learned when you are surrounded by a ton of creatures, the code DOES make it realistically hard to flee, because you are surrounded.

Good times.  

[Sakra]

To be honest I didn't kill nearly as many of my minions as I should have.

[Molten Heart]

Sometimes the trick to utilizing minions is to get what they want and what you want to be the same thing. I think sometimes leaders try to make their minions fit into a narrow plan and that's not always the most effective way to make things fun or make things happen. Compromising the plan is sometimes better because the resources (other players, time, staff, in game resources/opportunities) may not be available to make the original plan happen. If you're a leader you should have or be looking for a plan, also don't be a victim. If some of your minions aren't a part of the plan, change the plan or get rid of them.

[Dalmeth]

Something I see players struggle with--and this certainly affected me when I first played leadership--is the idea that their PC needs to be ICly good at things. That is, combat-capable; good at desert navigation; good at politics; good at recruiting or training; good at thinking up grand plots; etc. It's really difficult to be good at all of the things that players think are critical for any given role.

And I would say it's attitudes like this that make leadership roles hard for me.

As a leader, I need to be able to do something.  Because that's leadership.  It's doing something beyond merely telling people what to do.

[BadSkeelz]

I agree that there's no reason to follow a leader who is bad at ALL of the things. They'll probably be rightfully killed for it, because Zalanthas can't afford to waste time on people who are completely useless.

However, I don't think Talia is saying that leaders should settle for being good at none of the things that make for being a good leader. Recognizing, accepting, and playing to character flaws AND strengths are what make well-rounded and interesting PCs.

Being a new sergeant who routinely gets schooled by runners still sucks. And since that's a problem that wholly rests on the code, in defiance of in game logic (unless every new sponsored combat leader got to the position by sucking up and shirking all the duty that should have turned them in to competent combatants by now), it's fair to ask that Staff lend a hand in correcting it.

[HavokBlue]

It would be neat if, in keeping with the same logic behind the buffed combat skills for templars/combat leaders, other sponsored roles accumulated 1 boost point per IC year or something.

[BadSkeelz]

I don't quite see how that logic follows. I don't necessarily think leaders should get buffs as they play, I just think they should be as good coming in as if they had leveled up and been promoted to the position. You seem to be suggesting existing leaders get a boost?

Once you're in game and your skills levels are reasonably set, it should be your responsibility for improving them.

[HavokBlue]

I think they've mentioned the logic behind increasing the initial levels of templars and certain other roles is to reduce the amount of time templars need to spend training and increase the amount of time they spend leading plots and creating interaction etc etc.

There are many sponsored roles that would reasonably have the opportunity to improve on one thing or another but for which it is significantly more difficult to actually do in game for a variety of reasons.

I don't expect a lot of people to agree with me (and I know staff don't) but it's just a sentiment I wanted to voice.

[Patuk]

I think there's a difference between 'dude is weak despite years of virtual experience' and 'dude won't branch razors because he keeps having to flay people for lord templar Valika.' In my understanding, the boosts are less about minimising time spent training, and more about representing that any templar has fifteen years of harsh training at the very least, and any sergeant has trained at least two-three years as well.

[Fujikoma]

Having actually managed to run an indie crew for a short while (it was an, interesting one), I think the hardest thing to do is to keep folks from rushing off and dying foolishly (despite your warnings, begging, pleading, offering of rewards). Finding the right talent in the first place possibly shouldn't be trail and error. You shouldn't recruit Amos just because he was sitting at the bar when you walked in. Amos needs a job, sucks to be you. Amos pulls out a flute and does an amusing song and dance, ok, Amos, you're in, now lets get to work before I have to pull your tonsils out of your butthole.

While conflict is nice, I don't like it to be within my group, and I find it important to limit it to things that are necessary. The deaths of my people are an insult to me as a leader, and it's my job to investigate exactly what happened, bribe, question, threaten, and maybe cut a few fuckers until I get answers, there's a plot with some conflict potential. Needless to say, someone's going to vanish sooner or later, and I've experienced this numerous times and I like to think that the reaction, while kind of depressing, was also an exciting experience in some ways.

Other than that, I figure interpersonal interactions are important, establishing your personality with your minions and helping to grow theirs to suit your purposes over time, if they're not willing to do this, well, sometimes you gotta cut a fool, and they knew the risks when they took the job. Tell them stories about a long lost love, sing them songs, discuss your PC's views and philosophy, give and take, share secrets, maybe even share a bed, whatever it takes to make people loyal is worth the effort. When one wanders out and gets scrabbed, screw it, write a song about "Tha Dumb Fuck What Got Scrabbed" and roll with it, or tell it in story form, to everyone you hire, in a memorable and haunting fashion so that they know, hey, don't get scrabbed, because I'll cry, then I'll bang your corpse. Educate them about all the poisons your PC knows about and the cures, the pitfalls and things to watch for that Will Kill You, set clear rules for behavior when you're not around with caution in mind, and eventually you'll see some of them live longer.

Share moments with your underlings, make them feel like valued parts of the team, be willing to comprimise and possibly admit wrongdoing, fuck, hand them the reigns sometimes if they've demonstrated enough understanding. I don't think you can ignore the schedules in clans, so that makes all of the above hard to do. And, if you can convince your underlings to actually pay you for all this, well, I think you just won the game. Then again, I play PCs that prefer to make their coin inside the walls, or as short a distance from the gate as possible, as opposed to charging into the Pah to trample elves, so, my perspective may differ a bit.

I feel it's important to take responsibility for one's own mistakes and be willingly to openly admit it (I never shoulda hired Amos just cuzza that flute business, fecker was some kinda crazy necromancer), and use that as a cautionary tale as well. Groom your minions to replace you and carry on your work (because yes, one day you ARE going to die), and when they're competent enough in the group's philosophy, methods, and practices, think of them more as team members now, equals. Grow your group into something sustainable that will have lingering effects for many IC years after the last member finally dies. There will be the potential to butt heads with your fellows, but this kind of conflict risks degrading into some unhealthy disrespect between both parties and leaves unhealthy questions in the minds of your minions, it's important to avoid that, and to know how to prevent such escalation by identifying escalators early and working to temper that into something controlled.

Is this what a realistic Zalanthan leader would do? I don't know, I just know how I like to play, and I prefer to build rather than destroy, although I will result to the latter as needed. I like to see a group grow and thrive. I don't have enough experience actually playing a ranger to handle the task of navigation, it's on my to-do list soon, but I've seen a number of the hazards of the game-world first hand, and would personally rather avoid them if possible, while having my group trained and ready to respond as needed.

But to me, sparring, training, comes second to a compelling story, to interaction and bonds that really inject meaning and substance into the daily life of a PC, and I'm fully ready and willing to set aside all the training and what not to sing the song about Amos leading an army of undead rats around to the sound of his flute, or what have you, or let an underling do something else if they have to, which is why I really try to avoid clan life. I don't like being unable to say "no" to a proposition, I don't necessarily like big stories with big fireworks, I just like our simple little tasks, spiced up with the occassional unexpected animation, and I like keeping those folks I can trust to be loyal around, so maybe one day we CAN accomplish something more.

[boog]

I think they've mentioned the logic behind increasing the initial levels of templars and certain other roles is to reduce the amount of time templars need to spend training and increase the amount of time they spend leading plots and creating interaction etc etc.

There are many sponsored roles that would reasonably have the opportunity to improve on one thing or another but for which it is significantly more difficult to actually do in game for a variety of reasons.

I don't expect a lot of people to agree with me (and I know staff don't) but it's just a sentiment I wanted to voice.

I agree, mostly because I loathe training. I never train, unless I'm in the Byn, or another clan that's heavy on the combat. And even then, I don't know how to excel greatly at it.

I guess you could always request a boost? Isn't that a thing?

[HavokBlue]

Nah, as far as I'm aware, the current stance is that beside whatever you get at chargen, everything else has to be done yourself.

[boog]

Oh. Mrr.

I don't think one little boost a year would hurt. It's not like the leaders we play just diddle around when they're vNPCly leading their lives. And it wouldn't grant some huge advantage over people who actually *do* play to win.