Leadership Taxicab Confessional

[HavokBlue]

Jesus Christ planning and executing RPTs and then say... a third as many people as you expected show up.

[FantasyWriter]

But from my perspective, actually, it's not necessary to really be ICly good at anything. That's what minions are for. And it's totally OK to play a leader who ICly sucks; in fact, it's extremely entertaining and engaging for both players and staff. Yes, this might mean that your PC gets yelled at by their boss, plotted against by peers, and betrayed by minions. All of that is not just OK, it's awesome. Being bad at stuff opens up opportunities for other PCs to contribute positively (helping your PC or clan out) or negatively (murder corruption betrayal!).
.....

I'd love to see players in general sort of throw perfectionism to the wind (ICly) and just get in the game and start stirring shit up. Make other PCs hate you or love you. Then deal with the consequences as they come.

I did this once (with Talia as my staffer, oddly enough).  While not my favorite PC, I have never had more -fun- playing Armageddon than I did with him.  Of course, I've never played a more OOCly stressful or nerve-racking role either.

[Cutthroat]

While playing a leader PC, the biggest challenge for me by far was recruiting and maintaining an effective group of minions. Because of the way the playerbase tends to wax and wane in terms of our interest in clanned RP in general, or even our interest in a specific clan, or area of the game, there were many times where there were no employees coming in despite the best efforts in recruiting, and even a few times where there were so many employees and so many more wanting into the clan that some had to be turned away.

Recruiting is only a relatively small part of the challenge. Maintaining a base of employees once you have them is difficult for a myriad of reasons. In practically any city clan, no matter what clan docs or general docs say about going out alone, people will go out alone, thinking they're "safe", and then die. Now all of a sudden the leader lost money, armor, a uniform and whatever else, all because of what amounts to impatience, or an inexplicable need to train skills, or moonlight. And it's usually not easy for leaders to recoup the losses. Some clans have some things the leader can get for free, but usually there is at least some monetary cost involved in losing a clan member. Certainly a loss of time as well.

It's also extremely difficult to hold to the idea that working for most clans should be like a dream job for commoners, because of the lack of supply of people willing to join. Simple economics plays out here: short supply, high demand. On an OOC level, is practically suicidal for a clan to be picky about the members it accepts, sometimes (besides obvious race restrictions or whatever).

For the rest, it can be difficult to assign tasks that need doing without sliding into the realm of "Bring me 20 gortok asses" type of quests. Sometimes as a leader, the group went for RL weeks without nothing to really do besides train and talk to other people, because the clan environment and the environment of the general location did not have enough going on to warrant assigning a task. The clan caps were never a problem because the group was rarely at the number where it needed to be capped. The few times a cap did have to be put in place, it was clearly to make sure other clans had a chance to survive, and as a leader PC of one clan I felt it was worth holding to the cap so that I could have other clans to interact with.

[Morrolan]

My personal biggest frustrations of leadership are two:

• Keeping character-minions alive for the years necessary for some plots.
• Having my deep-laid, world-altering plots run afoul of others' deep-laid, world-altering plots.

[Lizzie]

#1 frustration for me = inheriting someone else's minions. I just don't have the patience for that kind of drama. I'd rather hand-pick one or two PCs to work for me, and maybe have a half dozen non-employees who do tasks for me, than have to handle the entire crew of my predecessor.

Other than that I think I'm pretty good with coming up with "stuff to do" and plotlines. Most of them are things that I want my character to accomplish, and have people helping me get it done. Sometimes it involves a lot of convoluted crazy shit, and sometimes it's as simple as "go kill that gortok on the road so I can ride past without breaking a nail."

[Case]

My biggest peeve is people leaning on me hard for things to do. It bothers me a lot because when I'm not in charge, I don't tend to rely on people who are, or if I do, try to never ask them for their time just to entertain me. I don't mind it from my clannies or 'my people', but I mind it from minor affiliates and random people. That said, I try. Making plots is not hard though. Having your own goals and demands of others to meet them should be a key tenet of all roleplay, not just a couple of sponsored roles.

I don't mind the time things take, or losing minions. It happens.

Staff saying 'no' is fine. I probably try do it anyway.

I've found the best way to be a PC leader is to take risks and let your superiors catch you up about them later. The better you are at taking them, the better you look and more support you have, plus it's fun and interesting. Getting in trouble as a PC leader is also a great way to change and grow as a PC.

I don't think everybody's cut out to be a leader, and to be honest, it is a job to be one. I find that enjoyable for some reason. Others having fun around me makes me have fun. Feeling like I'm driving things makes me have fun.


Also, recently, an impromptu scene I had was one of my most favourite scenes ever, and came from trusting a minion to lead it.

[Dar]

Biggest difficulty to playing a leadership role is the feeling of guilt, when you cant log on for weeks on end and dont know when you will have time this month.

[Is Friday]

One of the issues I consistently run into is planning and moving ahead with my plot for a furious 2-3 weeks only to be told "we can't support this plot". Inevitably, I then have to approach everyone involved in this now "dead" plot with my proverbial dick in my hand.

That's the risk I take with my spontaneous play style, though. Oh well.

[flurry]

I've been thinking about my experiences with this and what frustrated me at times. I've had a couple of sponsored GMH roles (and one noble which I don't count, because it was a totally different experience and a relatively quick storage on my part).

I would play another sponsored leadership role, but every time I've had one, I definitely need a break from that kind of responsibility for a good long while.

It seems to me what makes these roles enjoyable is also what can make them frustrating. I like that there are all kinds of challenges, often unexpected. That can be a lot of fun, but when it means your plots get derailed again and again, it can also be aggravating. I like working with a mix of different characters, and depending on them to get things done for me. Again, that can be great, but it can also be terribly frustrating. It's a bit like group projects in school, without the option to just do it all yourself.

Going back to Lizzie's point about inheriting minions, I totally understand that as a source of frustration, even if I don't completely agree. A related issue I've run into at times is minions (whether inherited or not) who are just not "on board" for whatever plots/goals have come in with new leadership. (Of course, having played minions often, I can sympathize with what they go through with leadership changes.) I've also noticed an odd phenomenon of some people who join a clan while seemingly having no interest in actually being involved in clan life. At all. With my last sponsored role I came to the realization that if my PC concluded someone was only going to be in the way there was no reason to keep them around. It's a simple thing, but having the authority to just remove the bad eggs from the clan can really help in getting things done with the rest of the clan.

Side note, about the original post: I do think it is possible to be an antagonist and a leader at the same time, although I'm not sure a lot of Armageddon players want an IC boss that they despise. Some inspiration (profanity, if you mind that):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kZg_ALxEz0 (from Glenngary Glen Ross)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je8Y-4VFQ0E (from Damages)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuTt8VljniU (from Swimming with Sharks)

[Is Friday]

Flurry: Oh don't worry. I play leader antagonists like I'm paid 6 figures to do it.

[flurry]

I thought that was probably the case, and that's good because I think the game needs them. Sometimes I get the impression that some people only want permissive bosses who just let everyone do their own thing, which personally I wouldn't want to play.

[Reiloth]

I tend to ask first, and do second.

I find this leads to less butthurt, involves Staff more in the plans from the get-go rather than half-way through (which also leads to less butthurt) and allows them to have agency with the project (which typically means it has more likelihood of getting off the ground). Also, if Staff doesn't agree with the project or idea, I can let them know if my PC will pursue it anyways (to their detriment), or if there is an alteration or caveats that can allow the plan to go forward.

This isn't true of all projects -- But long term projects I know will involve Staff, I at least give them an OOC heads up, even if that will be before the IC heads up. I figure it's common courtesy.

Taking risks and doing things that are stupid are definitely a forte of my PCs -- But catching Staff off-guard in the past usually leads to a negative interaction down the road, which is something I try to avoid now if I can.

[Talia]

A little bit of staff perspective:

It's not necessarily preferable to always ask first before doing, but it can also be a really good idea.

In certain clans, there may be pre-approved plot ideas available to leaders. For example, as we've worked on revamping the southlands clan documentation, we've added short lists of "things you could pursue to get this mini-promotion or reward." Or, sometimes when we're working with leaders, we might brainstorm with them a list of things they could be working on. If the leader is picking up something staff has suggested, or something substantially similar, then just running with that idea is probably not going to present an issue.

Other times, plot ideas are obvious and well-supported by documentation, so asking before going ahead isn't necessary. For example: You want to murder, corrupt, or betray someone. Or your elf wants to elf someone and/or test them. We are basically never going to tell you not to do this. We might have additional suggestions for you about how to play your elf, or bad stuff to do to other PCs beyond PKing them, but we're not going to say "Nope, you can't MCB anyone, what is this, Armageddon?!?!?!"

And yet other times, the thing you want to ask to do is pretty dumb or unrealistic and you just ought to re-think it before asking it or doing it. For example (and this is totally hypothetical, I don't see this level of derp from current leaders): "My noble is gonna go down on the Arena floor and single-handedly fight the gaj, cool idea, right?"

The type of plot idea you might want to ask about before pursuing is anything that's not in the above categories, and/or anything that will require staff involvement (which, for good or ill, is a lot of types of plots). If you don't mind hearing "no" eventually, then you don't have to ask first, of course. (I'm not saying that if you don't ask you will get an automatic no, I'm just saying that no is more likely if you're not consulting with staff first and tweaking your idea in response.)

[Reiloth]

yarp.

[Refugee]

I'm a teambuilder and task-oriented.  My biggest problem with leadership positions in RPIs are those PCs who exist solely to create contention among my team.  I like the conflict to be -outside- my clan, us against them.  It's hard for me to enjoy the ever-present clannie who simply wishes to destroy whatever I'm trying to accomplish, or to tear apart the team I'm trying to build.

Some of them are just griefers but some of them are really well done!  I struggle with them nevertheless.

My personal leadership philosophy is that it's my #1 job to engage my underlings and give them things to do, keep them busy, give them things to RP around.

[BadSkeelz]

I'm a teambuilder and task-oriented.  My biggest problem with leadership positions in RPIs are those PCs who exist solely to create contention among my team.  I like the conflict to be -outside- my clan, us against them.  It's hard for me to enjoy the ever-present clannie who simply wishes to destroy whatever I'm trying to accomplish, or to tear apart the team I'm trying to build.

Agreed on troublemaker PCs. So just kill them. I'd get butthurt PMs when I'd dump someone from the clan but never when I executed them.

[Case]

I think I wrote it more contentiously than I meant. I don't mean kicking off things that would be rude not to ask first or give a heads up. There are so many political or personal risks you can take as gambles, and those are what I mean. Some are pretty big. Your character's bosses are too busy to hold your hand.

[Refugee]

I'm a teambuilder and task-oriented.  My biggest problem with leadership positions in RPIs are those PCs who exist solely to create contention among my team.  I like the conflict to be -outside- my clan, us against them.  It's hard for me to enjoy the ever-present clannie who simply wishes to destroy whatever I'm trying to accomplish, or to tear apart the team I'm trying to build.

Agreed on troublemaker PCs. So just kill them. I'd get butthurt PMs when I'd dump someone from the clan but never when I executed them.

Ha!  Really?  I always tried to avoid the executions.  I will keep this in mind!

[BadSkeelz]

Well, I can recall personally killing like two minions and ejecting one, and it was the ejected who sent PMs. To be honest I didn't kill nearly as many of my minions as I should have.

It's important to remember that you're not just playing for your minions' enjoyment, you're playing for yours too. If they're going to be annoying little shits in your clan, remember that is YOUR clan. You have no obligation to put up with them.

In addition, killing your subpar minions reminds the playerbase that Clan-life is a privilege, not a right, and that their characters should be grateful and striving to belong within that safety net.

[Refugee]

Very solid points, BadSkeelz.

[Patuk]

Of the 5 clanned PC's I've played in the last 12 months,  one died to a crimcode quirk, one was a delf and therefor was unlikely to get booted/betrayed by clannies anyway, one kicked it in a hrpt, one got killed by her boss, and one was booted and subsequently killed by clan dudes anyway.

So, in my experience, clans do kill off  their own people.

And just to put Skeelzikins at ease, I'd like to note that no murdering/booting people were saddled with complaints.

[palomar]

For example: You want to murder, corrupt, or betray someone. Or your elf wants to elf someone and/or test them. We are basically never going to tell you not to do this. We might have additional suggestions for you about how to play your elf, or bad stuff to do to other PCs beyond PKing them, but we're not going to say "Nope, you can't MCB anyone, what is this, Armageddon?!?!?!"

I believe it's more frequent to be told "no" in game by animated NPCs, or through IC reponses to requests. I only had a MCB plot refused once, and it was through an IC-reply to a request, so it might not be a big deal generally, but if you're playing a leader you should not take all planned MCB activity as being ok by default. Run it by staff first if at all possible, and yes, it might be turned down.

I understand that the IC "no" isn't necessarily the staff saying no as much as it is the game world (your bosses etc) and that you can go ahead and try... but you'll also have to suffer the consequences. Usually, going against your v/NPC superiors is not advisable.

[BadSkeelz]

If there was one thing I was good at as a leader, it was causing the deaths of my minions. It's one of my big regrets of being a leader, since I think a lot of those minions had more potential for the job than I did. Watching your minion PCs grow and advance is one of the better things about being a leader.

I do think it's important that, for your character to remain enjoyable, you have to carve out time where they can STOP being a leader. Have days where they're on leave or just not giving a fuck, find some other friends and relax. These are great times to delegate tasks to minions, to let them get some experience and independence.

[Refugee]

I didn't address one of IsFriday's questions, I realized as I reread this thread.  What do I enjoy about playing a leader?

1.  Most of all, I like the relationship you can form with the comrades you lead.  The few trusted at the top that you surround yourself with.  I like sitting and working out plans with them, figuring out problems.  This is just as good for me if I am not the leader, but one of the trusted comrades.  I love loyalty RP.  Either side, leader or follower.  This is the best by far of all RP, in my opinion.

2.  I like really knowing what's going on!  Leaders get to know the whole story.

3.  I like having control over myself.  I don't like schedules that force you to spar with the same person every 90 minutes or leave a fun scene to have to play alone just because it's noon... and if I'm the leader I don't have to follow them unless I want to. 

4.  I'm a natural planner, and I like figuring out ways to accomplish things.  Ways to keep followers busy, ways to keep them interested, that's enjoyable to me.  It's cool when people are having fun because of what you did.  It's very satisfying.

5.  I like being able to build my crew into something I really like playing around.  Sometimes, for a short while, you can build a group of friends where everything is perfect, and you all click, it's magical.  It's rare and it's fleeting, because someone's gonna die... but it's like that big bass that jumps out of the water and thrashes around in the air trying to throw your hook...  Might happen five times in your life, but it still makes all the trying worth it.

[Kismetic]

What do I enjoy?  Having more tools/trust to make the world come alive.