Discuss pending change to flee from Staff Announcements

[Old Kank]

Will the parting shot contribute to the combat lag of the combatant who made it?

It will be a swing, so there will be the same lag as if you had made a swing and someone died.

In my experience, combat lag from normal melee attacks is negligible to nonexistent, so this change seems like a triple penalty.

Escaping an NPC in combat used to look something like this:  Flee, run a couple rooms with the NPC in hot pursuit, get attacked again by the pursuing NPC.  Repeat until you manage to get two rooms away.

If NPCs still have catlike reflexes when it comes to chasing after you, then you're now likely to get hit as you flee, as you get attacked a second time, and as you flee a second time, before you have a real chance to get away.

Will these changes incorporate enough of a lag that players have a reasonable chance to escape aggressive NPCs with a single successful flee?

[Bacon]

Something just occured to me. I think npcs need more movement delay in addition to this. I've had, many times npcs enter the room and hit me before I can react, I flee (now they will get a chance to hit me again) then they enter the room before I can move any farther away and attack again (now when I try to flee the second time they get another bonus attack on me). This is wholly effed up if npcs don't get a little more movement delay.

Edit:

If NPCs still have catlike reflexes when it comes to chasing after you, then you're now likely to get hit as you flee, as you get attacked a second time, and as you flee a second time, before you have a real chance to get away.

Yeah, exactly what I was just thinking.

[Iiyola]

Something just occured to me. I think npcs need more movement delay in addition to this. I've had, many times npcs enter the room and hit me before I can react, I flee (now they will get a chance to hit me again) then they enter the room before I can move any farther away and attack again (now when I try to flee the second time they get another bonus attack on me). This is wholly effed up if npcs don't get a little more movement delay.

Yep. Agree with Bacon again.

Bacon is very agreeable.

[Qzzrbl]

Something just occured to me. I think npcs need more movement delay in addition to this. I've had, many times npcs enter the room and hit me before I can react, I flee (now they will get a chance to hit me again) then they enter the room before I can move any farther away and attack again (now when I try to flee the second time they get another bonus attack on me). This is wholly effed up if npcs don't get a little more movement delay.

I kind of agree with this sentiment.

But then I see two sides to it.

Side 1: I get raptor'd/beetle'd enough as it is!

Side 2: This change makes being a "guide" through the wastes a worthy venture.

[Bacon]

Side 2: This change makes being a "guide" through the wastes a worthy venture.

No matter how good of a guide you are, there isn't anything to save you from the aggro npc in the room diagonal from you that you can't see until you move into an adjacent room.

[Dakota]

I do like the idea behind the change though.. I just loathe the fact its such a pain in the butt skill to move if you don't run around and try to 'play code' rather than actually 'play the game'. Wishing it was easier to learn as a whole is all. But.. it is a neat (and logical) change.

I don't get this part, it seems that if your pc has taken the time to train, which skilling up represents the ability, to keep a calm and collected head to figure how to get out of a situation which is not always natural for its almost more natural to panic, then where is realistic idea of playing the game.

I don't think that sitting around comfortable in a bar all the time, nor being someone that was so tough and fighting things like tregils, never having to run, then one day coming upon a tembo and freaking out because they never had to think in terms of not panicking in the face of such ferocity, is much of a negative of game play/ rp vs code. And somewhat enhances it in my mind.

Taking the time to train flee (for most PC's IMO), means you get in a situation thats in over your head or feels that way and you try to get away and safe.. That is playing the game for me.. Playing code for me means you run about spam-fleeing when you fight stuff to hope for a fail bc you want to up your skill.. That's what I was referring too.

Either way flee is very -very- hard to learn. Like the change.. but I just hope learning it will also get adjusted in ways beyond this additional check for the hit.

And I absolutely agree w. the delay on NPCs..

[X-D]

I have to agree as well that NPC move delay should be given a hard look at. There are many NPCs that can get that surprise attack in, which is fine, but all of them are VERY fast as well and almost all of them track.

And though I am happy this will make flee easier to raise...It is not very realistic and neither are any of the games that already have something like this....just because other games do it does not make it right.

Though I think escape has been too easy...I've not really been against it being that way because I have been on both sides, so they even out.

But the flee-er should have the advantage, the jump. Not the other way around. The idea that when I decide to flee a fight gets telegraphed in some way giving the attacker time to anticipate not only when, but where I am about to go and do it in time to ready an attack is...to be honest, SILLY.

NOW, that being said,

I know it can be argued that if your flee skill is low you run like a chicken with its head cut off, so you stumble or run the wrong direction or whatever, giving the attacker that extra attack...Fine...BUT, if that is the case I REALLY REALLY think you, Morg, should add in an advantage to having a high flee skill.

Like, past a certain point in addition to being able to avoid those attacks  you gain speed to your run for a couple rooms, Or much lower stam cost to flee AND to travel for a couple rooms...call it adrenalin rush or just the ability to plan your route better then the ones behind you...something.

Which, would BTW, cover the problem of NPC move delay and likely be easier to add then changing NPC move delays.

[Jingo]

I could see this killing players during sparring. When it's already too easy to die during sparring.

[Cutthroat]

Maybe there should be a nosave command to hold back, and not attempt an attack on someone who is fleeing, picking something up, or otherwise exposing themselves to an extra attack. Useful for sparring applications in the sense that it will reduce the chance of accidentally killing someone with far less skill than you, but would then skip any skill gain that might have taken place otherwise.

Anyway, I think this is a good change, but I don't think it can stand alone. Other people have mentioned what else could be looked at, such as NPC delays.

[Jingo]

For those of you concerned with training newbies.  Realize part of the responsibility is yours to watch them.  You can DISENGAGE if you feel they are getting too beat up but you don't want to lose face by fleeing yourself.

The problem is when your badass partner reels/bashes you down to 15 health while he's lagging out.

[Synthesis]

If the thing you're fleeing from is bashed (from bash, kick reverse, charge, trample, bash fail, etc. etc.) when you flee, I think it should eliminate the possibility of it getting the parting shot.  The same should apply if it is currently reeling when you flee.

More broadly, you could argue that if it is currently suffering from any kind of combat delay (from initial attack, backstab, sap, kick, disarm, throw, etc.), it should not get the chance for a parting shot when you flee.

I would say this is important, especially for assassins, because if they get a guaranteed (or high-probability) melee attack post-backstab or sap, it basically increases the damage of that attack and makes it perhaps more dangerous than originally intended.  (Although...as someone who plays assassins frequently, I'd be pretty happy while playing an assassin if I got the parting shot while still backstab-delayed.)

[Bacon]

If the thing you're fleeing from is bashed (from bash, kick reverse, charge, trample, bash fail, etc. etc.) when you flee, I think it should eliminate the possibility of it getting the parting shot.  The same should apply if it is currently reeling when you flee.

More broadly, you could argue that if it is currently suffering from any kind of combat delay (from initial attack, backstab, sap, kick, disarm, throw, etc.), it should not get the chance for a parting shot when you flee.

I would say this is important, especially for assassins, because if they get a guaranteed (or high-probability) melee attack post-backstab or sap, it basically increases the damage of that attack and makes it perhaps more dangerous than originally intended.  (Although...as someone who plays assassins frequently, I'd be pretty happy while playing an assassin if I got the parting shot while still backstab-delayed.)

Another good point. I agree.

[Dar]

Keep in mind guys. If I recall correctly. The delay time of a swing that kills someone is huuge. Hence why it pays off to have mercy on while fighting 4-5 gortoks and then just change opponents by a command instead of waiting for you to auto switch when a tok dies.  You also get a delay timer if you attack someone.

For example, if you are running away from a critter, he follows you at the same or greater speed then you. But ... if you let him attack you and then flee. He will not follow you because he is still under the initiated attack delay. Which makes it 'very' easy to move away a few rooms and not be followed (unless the critter tracks). Though this way you will get attacked 'and' suffer a parting blow, but at least you'll be guaranteed that the attacker will not follow you when you flee.

If a critter tracks, then whenever it enters a room it initiates hunt instead of insta attacking. So no it will not enter a room/insta attack, like it sometimes happens when it enters a room to attack you for the very first time. So it 'does' give you time to keep moving away, since it will wait till tracking is finished even if you're in the same damn room already.

[Bacon]

But ... if you let him attack you and then flee. He will not follow you because he is still under the initiated attack delay.

This is not always true. That's the problem. Many many many times I've had them immediately enter the next room before my movement delay wears off and attack again.

[Synthesis]

Keep in mind guys. If I recall correctly. The delay time of a swing that kills someone is huuge. Hence why it pays off to have mercy on while fighting 4-5 gortoks and then just change opponents by a command instead of waiting for you to auto switch when a tok dies.  You also get a delay timer if you attack someone.

For example, if you are running away from a critter, he follows you at the same or greater speed then you. But ... if you let him attack you and then flee. He will not follow you because he is still under the initiated attack delay. Which makes it 'very' easy to move away a few rooms and not be followed (unless the critter tracks). Though this way you will get attacked 'and' suffer a parting blow, but at least you'll be guaranteed that the attacker will not follow you when you flee.

If a critter tracks, then whenever it enters a room it initiates hunt instead of insta attacking. So no it will not enter a room/insta attack, like it sometimes happens when it enters a room to attack you for the very first time. So it 'does' give you time to keep moving away, since it will wait till tracking is finished even if you're in the same damn room already.

There is no delay for landing a killing blow, unless you have to use the 'kill' command to strike it.

"Change opponent" does have a delay associated with it, so if we're strictly talking about not suffering from delays, it would be better for you to just keep combat going without using change opponent in that scenario.

[Jingo]

I'm against the change.

It could make the current, already deadly plots possibly a bit too deadly to bother pursuing.

I could also make accidental dujat/bahamet/mek encounters unsurvivable. When the only saving grace was a fool proof flee command.

[Synthesis]

If the thing you're fleeing from is bashed (from bash, kick reverse, charge, trample, bash fail, etc. etc.) when you flee, I think it should eliminate the possibility of it getting the parting shot.  The same should apply if it is currently reeling when you flee.

More broadly, you could argue that if it is currently suffering from any kind of combat delay (from initial attack, backstab, sap, kick, disarm, throw, etc.), it should not get the chance for a parting shot when you flee.

I would say this is important, especially for assassins, because if they get a guaranteed (or high-probability) melee attack post-backstab or sap, it basically increases the damage of that attack and makes it perhaps more dangerous than originally intended.  (Although...as someone who plays assassins frequently, I'd be pretty happy while playing an assassin if I got the parting shot while still backstab-delayed.)

Two other things:

1) Someone needs to look at the fact that sometimes NPCs that are following other NPCs do not suffer from movement delays before they attack, so if 3 kryl run into a room with you, sometimes 2 of them can attack immediately.

2) You really need to fix the first-round double-attack bug that NPCs predominantly benefit from, because adding a parting shot attack gives them yet another extra attack.

[Naruto]

Code Select Expand

An armored bahamet walks in.
You think: "Dam! I gotta run."
w
An armored bahamet tries to stomp on you but misses.
Not while you're fighting.
An armored bahamet stomps on you doing horrendous damage.
You reel.
flee
An armored bahamet tries to stomp on you but misses.
You fled.
An armored bahamet stomps on you doing horrendous damage.
#beep#
Mantis Head.


[evilcabbage]

Shouldn't have been going after Mets unless you were properly prepared.

[Jingo]

Code Select Expand

An armored bahamet walks in.
You think: "Dam! I gotta run."
w
An armored bahamet tries to stomp on you but misses.
Not while you're fighting.
An armored bahamet stomps on you doing horrendous damage.
You reel.
flee
An armored bahamet tries to stomp on you but misses.
You fled.
An armored bahamet stomps on you doing horrendous damage.
#beep#
Mantis Head.


Kind of. Except I've never seen a bahamet miss. Only blocked by a skilled shield user.

Shouldn't have been going after Mets unless you were properly prepared.

Accidental bahamets are pretty much unavoidable if you play long enough  in a certain area.

[evilcabbage]

Anyways, from what I gather, they get a parting shot but you still get a chance to defend against it. Or maybe it negates your parry/shield use and it's either "they swing" or "they don't." Which is fine by me!

[Spoon]

I think a bunch of subguilds just got better.

[X-D]

No, many main guilds just got worse.

[Naruto]

No, many main guilds just got worse.

Well said..

[Zoan]

Easy solution: mercy on = no lashing out when people flee.

Enjoy your sparring, clan-peeps.