Discuss pending change to flee from Staff Announcements

[Dar]

Weapons might possibly have different chances. So it would be difficult to do parting shots with daggers and blunts do their short lengths and heavy, unwieldy shapes. While spears and pikes will be more effective at parting shots due to their reach, etc.

[Morgenes]

Will the parting shot contribute to the combat lag of the combatant who made it?

It will be a swing, so there will be the same lag as if you had made a swing and someone died.

Will we be able to use it on mobs which run away when they reach a certain amount of damage? Or is it only a player thing.

This affects PC and NPC, both ways.

[Titania]

I think it's sort of a sly way to kill off more pcs.

It is not as if it is needed. The real problem with flee is that it always works even before journeyman so probably not going to skillup. I don't think mine has failed in a year, except in breaking subdues. Just make it not succeed so much and give a slightly increased chance to skillup? Reasonable?

Welllllll.......let's make it way more complicated, AND pcs aren't getting killed, let's make them get killed instead! If you are weak and accidentally run into something big, you dead.

All in all it doesn't bother me that much other than the hardship you are placing on older warrior characters who have to spar with newer characters.(especially dwarves). You know what's a real problem? ---> -Sparring weapons can hit for so much damn damage!-  I just can't help but laugh at the crazy way a simple problem is "fixed" with such game changing code.

[Delirium]

There are cases right now where having a high flee skill is a very useful thing, such as fleeing in specific directions.

This was probably a case of 'oh hey, while we're fixing flee skillup, would it be a good time to go ahead and implement this idea'?

[Potaje]

So I have played table top before, D-n-D, the miniatures. In that, when you break from combat to flee, you basically are turning your back on your opponent to haul ass. This allows a parting opportunity to the one remaining, signifying a focus of aggression and the penalty for the other combatant for dividing their attention towards finding a path from the engagement with out tripping over their own feet, a stone, a hidden tregil.

It's brutal, but it makes sense, however the extra attack is not cushioned with a bonus to hit on the fleeing person only an extra attack. Which of coarse can seem like a lot.

Will there be a bonus to strike them in addition to the extra attack?

And if I get this right, every one fighting the fleeing mod/ pc gets an extra attack chance, yes?

[Morgenes]

There were several ways we could have 'fixed' the code.  What was probably our 2nd choice was to give the flee-er a skill check to even be able to flee.  We figured this would cause more pc deaths, because instead of just getting one hit (per attacker), you're stuck in combat still, with a lag and less stamina.  

For those of you concerned with training newbies.  Realize part of the responsibility is yours to watch them.  You can DISENGAGE if you feel they are getting too beat up but you don't want to lose face by fleeing yourself.

It's brutal, but it makes sense, however the extra attack is not cushioned with a bonus to hit on the fleeing person only an extra attack. Which of coarse can seem like a lot.

Will there be a bonus to strike them in addition to the extra attack?

No, there will be no bonus/penalty to this extra attack.

[Potaje]

In case it was missed

And if I get this right, every one fighting the fleeing mod/ pc gets an extra attack chance, yes?

There were several ways we could have 'fixed' the code.  What was probably our 2nd choice was to give the flee-er a skill check to even be able to flee.  We figured this would cause more pc deaths, because instead of just getting one hit (per attacker), you're stuck in combat still, with a lag and less stamina. 

For those of you concerned with training newbies.  Realize part of the responsibility is yours to watch them.  You can DISENGAGE if you feel they are getting too beat up but you don't want to lose face by fleeing yourself.

I see it was answered thank you.

[Iiyola]

Don't really care one way or another yet. I have a feeling it's going to create even more pc deaths in the early days of play and I don't think we really need things to be harder especially for new players.
The only thing this causes is people to flee even sooner than they already do or risk the parting shot killing your character. It really isn't any deeper than that as far as combat strategy goes. It also further increases the learning curve for combat pcs.

I do think that failing to avoid the parting shot during a flee attempt should count as a failure toward getting better at flee. I also thing that characters with lower agility should have less chance to get the parting shot. Half-giants and dwarves should have a harder time reacting to get off a parting shot vs humans and elves, etc.

I completely agree.

I don't like this adjustment at all. Being quick may safe your life. A parting shot may just end it right there, on the spot. And some places in Arm you REALLY don't need a parting shot like that.

[KankWhisperer]

I think it's sort of a sly way to kill off more pcs.

It is not as if it is needed. The real problem with flee is that it always works even before journeyman so probably not going to skillup. I don't think mine has failed in a year, except in breaking subdues. Just make it not succeed so much and give a slightly increased chance to skillup? Reasonable?

Welllllll.......let's make it way more complicated, AND pcs aren't getting killed, let's make them get killed instead! If you are weak and accidentally run into something big, you dead.

All in all it doesn't bother me that much other than the hardship you are placing on older warrior characters who have to spar with newer characters.(especially dwarves). You know what's a real problem? ---> -Sparring weapons can hit for so much damn damage!-  I just can't help but laugh at the crazy way a simple problem is "fixed" with such game changing code.

I know my character who had apprentice flee barely ever failed to flee in the direction they wanted to go, never failed to actually flee, could break half-giant subdues with ease, etc. I do think it's too easy to get away in the wilderness right now. But yeah, I think it was just too easy to succeed in the flee skill before.

[Yam]

Will the parting shot contribute to the combat lag of the combatant who made it?

It will be a swing, so there will be the same lag as if you had made a swing and someone died.

Sounds like it's going to make it easier for people to get away if they don't die to the last swing then.

[Dakota]

so basically it appears that flee is unchanged save for the risk it carries when you actually use flee in combat goes up.. so learning it will be just as difficult but far more risky.

I do like the idea behind the change though.. I just loathe the fact its such a pain in the butt skill to move if you don't run around and try to 'play code' rather than actually 'play the game'. Wishing it was easier to learn as a whole is all. But.. it is a neat (and logical) change.

[Titania]

For those of you concerned with training newbies.  Realize part of the responsibility is yours to watch them.  You can DISENGAGE if you feel they are getting too beat up but you don't want to lose face by fleeing yourself.

That has nothing to do with it. Sometimes you can be a little LAGGY and just hit so hard that unless you have disengage or flee queued up they could die quicker than I can react. Makes it hard to emote . Yeah yeah 'mercy on' but when you can hit for 3/4 of the average humans life with a SPARRING weapon in your off hand, then whatever.

[KankWhisperer]

so basically it appears that flee is unchanged save for the risk it carries when you actually use flee in combat goes up.. so learning it will be just as difficult but far more risky.

I do like the idea behind the change though.. I just loathe the fact its such a pain in the butt skill to move if you don't run around and try to 'play code' rather than actually 'play the game'. Wishing it was easier to learn as a whole is all. But.. it is a neat (and logical) change.

+1

[Potaje]

I do like the idea behind the change though.. I just loathe the fact its such a pain in the butt skill to move if you don't run around and try to 'play code' rather than actually 'play the game'. Wishing it was easier to learn as a whole is all. But.. it is a neat (and logical) change.

I don't get this part, it seems that if your pc has taken the time to train, which skilling up represents the ability, to keep a calm and collected head to figure how to get out of a situation which is not always natural for its almost more natural to panic, then where is realistic idea of playing the game.

I don't think that sitting around comfortable in a bar all the time, nor being someone that was so tough and fighting things like tregils, never having to run, then one day coming upon a tembo and freaking out because they never had to think in terms of not panicking in the face of such ferocity, is much of a negative of game play/ rp vs code. And somewhat enhances it in my mind.

[RogueGunslinger]

 Ya'll haven't read the thread clearly enough.

Ya'll being everyone who doesn't like the change.

Like... Just flee one hit earlier than normal.

[Dalmeth]

Hmm... I'm not too big on this.  I think it's the god-given right of every coward to put up a shitty fight, and forcing cowards to fight just makes fighting shitty.

As much as we like to think that you can lash out at a person trying to flee... you can't really do it in real life unless you're outright faster than they are.  Generally, you're going to be two or three steps away from them, even in melee combat, and that's a lot of ground to cover if they suddenly turn and run.  Essentially, you can only really fight a person if they want to fight, or you simply outclass them enough to force it.

I'd rather suggest giving people more reasons to stand and fight rather than make running harder.  Establish a better way to dismount riders (bash?) and make mounting while fighting more difficult.  Hell, change the encumbrance rules so that fighting with a pack full of junk is a bad thing, forcing folks to drop their packs whenever they want to fight and giving pursuers an advantage against those who don't want to fight.

Ya'll haven't read the thread clearly enough.

Ya'll being everyone who doesn't like the change.

Like... Just flee one hit earlier than normal.

Against things just a little bit tougher than you are, that's fine.  Against things like carru, bahamet, and mekillots?  Not so much.

Gotta wonder, though, if a reeling hit will stop a flee.

[RogueGunslinger]

 If you're worried about the specific number of hits you get from things that can likely one-shot you.  Then you're playing the game very dangerously.

It doesn't force you to fight if you're a coward. It makes you take an extra hit if you fail a skill check. That's all.

[KankWhisperer]

Can't wait to see people running "scared" from the weakest outdoor npcs.

The rugged ruggedly beared man says looking over his shoulder "Gah shouldn't of tried to taken on all them greth's, then had to run from all eight over and over!".

[Naruto]

Hey Morgenes.
This is a great change. However I have a question in my mind. What happens to those classes which don't have the skill flee?? Is there any plans to add the skill with some cap into some classes??
Let's say, in Rinth, everyone's engaged in lots of fights as their backgrounds state. So almost all of the sneaky types should have improved that skill, if it becomes that crucial to survive.

And I have another question. Will this change work as comparing the flee skills of both the fleeing PC and the attacking PC? I think that I'm kinda asking the mechanics of the game. However, I think most people is confused about how the flee skill will work. To give an example of what I meant:
Let's say I have the flee skill at novice and the attacker doesn't have the skill. Will I be able to flee without getting the one extra hit?

[Zoan]

I love the change. Anything that makes combat more visceral is okay by me, even sparring.

[Iiyola]

I love the change. Anything that makes combat more visceral is okay by me, even sparring.

You find it's not visceral enough atm??

[Zoan]

I haven't really seen anything more visceral than having nicking matches with skeet that lasts 10 minutes, but I tend to play very cautiously (as in, my PCs don't die inside a week like apparently most people's ).

[Bacon]

Edit: Somehow missed page 2.

[Iiyola]

Yeah, I play very cautiously as well. That doesn't mean the fighting skill difficulty have to get increased >:|

[Zoan]

Will we be able to use it on mobs which run away when they reach a certain amount of damage? Or is it only a player thing.

Will the parting shot contribute to the combat lag of the combatant who made it?

I second both of these questions and add: If not, I think both of these should be the case.

To my question, Morg already answered it's for NPC and PC alike.