Elves and Wagons

[Marauder Moe]

If you want to sail the silt sea... don't play an elf?

Or, just admit that the silt sea and solid ground are not, nor will they ever be, the same thing.

I'll admit that just fine.

However, I'm not sure I'm ready to make the distinction that wagons and skimmers are not the same thing.

[Kiara]

I'm not trying to be rude, but how can wagons and silt skimmers be considered the same thing?

Wagons are pulled by mounts. Silt Skimmers are not.

Wagons have wheels, and move under the power of beasts. Silt Skimmers do not.

Wagons travel over solid ground. Silt Skimmers do not.

If you travel outside without a wagon, you won't necessarily die. If you travel in the Silt Sea without a skimmer, you will die.

If there was a feasible way to travel on the sea without a skimmer, I'd be all for elves traveling under the power of their own legs. However, this is currently not possible.

[Qzzrbl]

Guys, guys... Just wait.

I've got this shit handled.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,39620.msg553598.html#new

[spicemustflow]

I don't think it bruises the pride of an elf to board a wagon with his tribemates in order to kill and raid. So what if the wagon moved for a stretch of the road during that time? Also, if an elf got into his head that he really needs to cross the silt sea, of he was paid to kill someone on the skimmer, he'd do it. Elves are proud, but not stupid. What do you think happens to an elf who breaks both of his legs in a fall? His tribemates leave him there or put him on a mount and carry him back home? If elves weren't adaptable, they'd never settle in the cities, for example.

[Qzzrbl]

I don't think it bruises the pride of an elf to board a wagon with his tribemates in order to kill and raid. So what if the wagon moved for a stretch of the road during that time? Also, if an elf got into his head that he really needs to cross the silt sea, of he was paid to kill someone on the skimmer, he'd do it. Elves are proud, but not stupid. What do you think happens to an elf who breaks both of his legs in a fall? His tribemates leave him there or put him on a mount and carry him back home? If elves weren't adaptable, they'd never settle in the cities, for example.

I've always had it planned in my head....

Here's the step-by-step:

A) Make a human character.

B) Find it worthy to go through all the bullshit of making an elven friend.

C) Pass all of his silly trials with flying colors, gain his trust.

D) Every time we plan to cover long distances and need to rest for the fiftyith time....

E) Give him a drink of milk to calm his nerves.*

F) Wait for him to pass out.

G) Tie him to the pack mount.

H) Travel to destination.

I) Lie to him and say he just passed out from exhaustion on the way when he wakes up.

* (actually poisoned with knock-out poison)

KINDA LIKE HOW THE A-TEAM GOT B.A. TO FLY IN HELICOPTERS!

[Marshmellow]

Shouldn't going Outside be approximately as horrifying to a city elf as going Inside is to a desert elf?

I don't see why this would have to be the case. For desert elves, it's a matter of pride. For city elves, I'm not so certain.

You're wrong, Kiara.  It's not always pride, but sometimes horror or prudence.  The tribe has an influence on which feeling would be the strongest, but that's truth for you.

[FantasyWriter]

OMG, Qzzrbl... that is so damn hilarious.

[Qzzrbl]

OMG, Qzzrbl... that is so damn hilarious.

App an elf-- you may wind up being the lucky one.

[FantasyWriter]

That's even -more- funny.

[X-D]

If the elves got on a wagon with the intent to raid and the wagon moved, they would not care.

The intent was not to use the wagon for travel, so, no shame.

As for the skimmer. To be honest, I think an elf that was willing to board one would have to be certifiable. To be honest I think it should be added to the docs that no elf would ever ride a skimmer...ever. The idea of being trapped in a situation where you cannot run if you wanted to should be totally outside the elf mindset.

[Kiara]

Shouldn't going Outside be approximately as horrifying to a city elf as going Inside is to a desert elf?

I don't see why this would have to be the case. For desert elves, it's a matter of pride. For city elves, I'm not so certain.

You're wrong, Kiara.  It's not always pride, but sometimes horror or prudence.  The tribe has an influence on which feeling would be the strongest, but that's truth for you.

Actually, I'm not wrong. We're both right. BOOYAH!

[spicemustflow]

The idea of being trapped in a situation where you cannot run if you wanted to should be totally outside the elf mindset.

Now, that makes the most sense as an argument against.

Still, it goes the same for cities, no? What elf would want to live walled in? And yet many elves are now city elves, though probably some great misfortune brought them in.

[X-D]

Walls can be climbed, tunneled under, and even if not that there is plenty of room to run, rooftops, alleys, streets, sewers. Even being trapped in a room would be less a problem, doors can be broken, locks can be picked, people can be bribed.

None of that applies to a skimmer.

[spicemustflow]

Walls can be climbed, tunneled under, and even if not that there is plenty of room to run, rooftops, alleys, streets, sewers. Even being trapped in a room would be less a problem, doors can be broken, locks can be picked, people can be bribed.

None of that is easy at all, and probably isn't an option for most elves. Tribal leaders don't reason like that. Oh, if shit hits the fan, we'll climb over the rooftops and walls and leave the elderly, children and pregnant females behind.

I am not saying that elves should be able to make their own routine silt expeditions, just that they should be allowed to step on a skimmer if an extraordinary (rare) IC event calls for it.

[Synthesis]

I can't find anything in the docs that hints that elves in general are paranoid about being trapped or confined.

Are you sure you aren't generalizing a specific tribe's mentality?

[Delstro]

If it was absolutely neccessary, I am sure they would be in wagons also. However, you can't make rules for exceptions. 99% of the time, Elves would never depend on something when they can depend on themselves.

I am sure if the known was going under and the only option was to get on a skimmer, they would get on the skimmer. Barring that, they won't. There is no garunteed benefit or need to do it.

[Kiara]

I can't find anything in the docs that hints that elves in general are paranoid about being trapped or confined.

[spicemustflow]

I've been told that by staff when I first attempted to play desert elves. Also received echoes that would encourage that sort of feeling when I was perceived to take my sweet time in the city.

[Kiara]

I've been told that by staff when I first attempted to play desert elves. Also received echoes that would encourage that sort of feeling when I was perceived to take my sweet time in the city.

We're not discussing desert elves and wagons, or at least I'm not. We're talking about city elves. They spend their lives confined to city walls, and in Allanak's case, the Labyrinth as well. I agree that desert elves would get claustrophobic in cities. I disagree vehemently that city elves would feel the same.

There is no garunteed benefit or need to do it.

Then why do humans, dwarves and half-giants routinely ride silt skimmers? What's the benefit of doing such?

[Delstro]

Because humans will risk everything if a gain is POSSIBLE.
Because dwarves can't be stopped once they are COMMITTED.
Because half-giants can be CONVINCED into doing most anything.

[spicemustflow]

I've been told that by staff when I first attempted to play desert elves. Also received echoes that would encourage that sort of feeling when I was perceived to take my sweet time in the city.

We're not discussing desert elves and wagons, or at least I'm not. We're talking about city elves. They spend their lives confined to city walls, and in Allanak's case, the Labyrinth as well. I agree that desert elves would get claustrophobic in cities. I disagree vehemently that city elves would feel the same.

He said elves in general. And I think that even city elves are not fond of being cornered. To them rooftops and narrow streets are as easily navigable as open desert is to d-elves.

[Synthesis]

I've been told that by staff when I first attempted to play desert elves. Also received echoes that would encourage that sort of feeling when I was perceived to take my sweet time in the city.

Desert elves != City elves

In fact, in the doc about "why elves don't ride," it says they only do so because of a) pride in their ability to run and b) the belief that it's shameful to rely upon another beast for transportation.

Neither of which really applies to skimmers, at all.

[spicemustflow]

Because elves will risk everything if a gain is POSSIBLE.
Because elves can't be stopped once they are COMMITTED.
Because elves can be CONVINCED into doing most anything.

Also, because elves are cockroaches and will do anything to survive.

[Kiara]

Because humans will risk everything if a gain is POSSIBLE.

Elves won't?

[spicemustflow]

I've been told that by staff when I first attempted to play desert elves. Also received echoes that would encourage that sort of feeling when I was perceived to take my sweet time in the city.

Desert elves != City elves

I know, you said 'in general' so I got carried away.