Elves and Wagons

[Spoon]

Yeah, I think I got that idea from earlier in this thread. Anyways...

Don't you think that's a bit limited?

No, I don't. I think there is plenty of variety and opportunity for city-elves.  Of course it's not as much variety and opportunity as exists for human PCs; oh well? That's the nature of playing an unwanted, untrusted race. It's a niche role, and I am personally opposed to the idea that it needs to not be a niche role.

If this is the position of staff, then the fact that half-elves are welcome in more clans than elves seems like an oversight to me. I doubt most humans would "want" or "trust" one group more than the other.

I would also like to point out that the social stigma surrounding elves and half-elves is not explicitly present in the racial documentation. It only seems to exist as player-staff consensus in game and here on the gdb. I'm not advocating against it, but I can't find it.

It would be really good to have something solid. All the documents say is that most honest folks avoid elves and half-elves are shunned by both sides. It would be good to have some ideas on racism for all races (especially elves and half-elves) in the docs, as right now its pretty vague considering the staff and players views on racism are so strong.

Many people treat half-elves as humans because they possibly don't know any better. I mean... people hate elves because they're ALL thieves with no respect at all for anyone but their own tribe. As for half-elves, people hate them because it reminds them of the fact an elf had sex with a human. YEEECH! And they make the result of that filth into soldiers. I don't want to limit half-elves as such, but they should have a pretty rough time in any organisation that refuses to employ elves, because they obviously perceive elves as thieving scum who can't be trusted.

[Spider]

I've been told that an idea I had would limit the ability for people who play that race to join clan(s)... And thus that concept would have to be thrown out. I am not sour over it, but just thought it to be interesting.

The logic was solid too.

The whole hamstringing of the elven race bit seems arbitrary to me.

I will say that I do agree with C-Elves never EVER riding a mount, using a pack animal, using someone else who rides a mount for the ability to use it as a pack animal, and riding wagons.

It's a way to travel across an area that is capable of being traversed by foot, in an easier fashion. This of course would be shameful to an elf.

Riding on a skimmer, the only feasible way to travel into the unknown, is a practice in pragmatism not a loss of self pride.

And I think elves are reasonable enough to make such a distinction. After all, they are the most intelligent (in general), of all the playable races.

Time to make a dwarf whose focus is to mass produce large enough "snow shoes" such that one can walk across the silt sea. 

[X-D]

Elves use pack animals.

[Gunnerblaster]

Jingo's take:

I think that if city-elves were to get a bonus on outdoor roads, I could be happy and elves would have a better time running next to wagons.

This is about the single most appealing idea I have heard in this thread.

[Reiloth]

Elves use pack animals.

It's this fact that kind of irks me.

I WONT RIDE AN ANIMAL BECAUSE I AM SO PROUD OF MY ELVISH POINTY FEET...

But I will use one to pack all of my things. I mean come on guys! Playability!

[Qzzrbl]

Elves use pack animals.

It's this fact that kind of irks me.

I WONT RIDE AN ANIMAL BECAUSE I AM SO PROUD OF MY ELVISH POINTY FEET...

But I will use one to pack all of my things. I mean come on guys! Playability!

They're not proud of their non-existent amazing strength.

Just their equally-existent running ability.



I remember reading a log a few weeks ago that mentioned an elf riding a mount...  I need to try to find it again.

[Twilight]

You all are thinking like humans.

Elves think like elves (however that may be), not humans.  There may be something in their psyche that directly influences their refusal to ride, something deeply primal that a human would never feel.

Or, more interestingly to me at least, if you consider that it is probably the way the elven mind works that gives rise tribes in the first place (since each and every single one should have a tribe), and I would propose to the purpose of creating an identifying, specifically elven culture (which I would argue elves need), and every culture has this aspect to it, there is something there, beyond culture, probably at the same level as the drive to belong to tribes, that elves -literally can't- get past in their minds in order to ride.  And staff says this extends to wagons and skimmers as well.  Okay.

So, yeah.  Giving logic that makes sense to a human doesn't mean that it should make sense to an elf.  The very fabric of logic itself should be different for the different races (which I think is backed up by docs...dwarf focus, stealing not bad, whatever goes on in a giant's head).

[Malifaxis]

It wouldn't take retconning in the least.

It'd take the understanding that certain d-elf tribes do cross breed with certain c-elf tribes, and that the c-elf blood is just steadily growing stronger again.

Bam, bonuses on outdoor roads from stronger legs, but no training in how to run across a goddamn wasteland without breaking your fucking ankle.

[Nyr]

Discussed it and we've decided not to do that either, sorry.

[Barzalene]

I hope that this doesn't sound rude of flippant. It's not meant to be.

If you want to see the world, don't pick C-elf. If you want to be a great hunter, pick anything else. I like the limitation of roles. I love seeing how much stuff you can pack in a small box.

The box you get with an elf is that it's a tribal role. It's all about the tribe or lack of one. That should be the jumping off point for all rp and role concept. If that's not what you want to play, play another race.
That said, the ability to travel by foot should land squarely between human and delf. And whatever on the skimmers, I don't completely understand the choice, bu I guess I respect it.

[Kiara]

Discussed it and we've decided not to do that either, sorry.

With all due respect, I think something should be done so that city elves are more properly represented by the player-base.

Keeping with the status quo simply isn't working.

[Nyr]

Discussed it and we've decided not to do that either, sorry.

With all due respect, I think something should be done so that city elves are more properly represented by the player-base.

Keeping with the status quo simply isn't working for me.

Fixed that for you.  We believe it is working.  You don't, some other players don't--that's the way things work.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think we understand that some players aren't going to be pleased with some things regardless of what we as staff do or do not do.  We discussed it.  We aren't making any changes at this time.  I think that's all you can reasonably expect:  if players have an issue, staff will respond to it.  If the response is not to your liking, there are some options, but emphasizing that you feel that your opinion is right is probably not the best one.  We know how you feel; you have already stated it.  Saying the same thing in a different way is not likely to change the conversation.

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread as it appears to have served its purpose.