Mind Rape

[RogueGunslinger]

I dislike that barrier is so worthless as a skill. In a world where anyone who's anyone and slip into your mind and pester the fuck out of you, I think people would have developed a better ability at blocking them out.

I propose a boost to make up for the many boosts that contact has gotten.

[Gimfalisette]

The boosts to contact have all been boosts to -starting- contact, not to contact overall.

Maxed barrier is good enough for what it needs to do, which is to make it easy to put back up, and make it so your PC doesn't pass out from using it.

Boosting barrier would only serve to make contact harder overall for noob PCs (and newbie players, somewhat) and mundane PCs. Contact is too valuable a tool in the IC world for me to want to overly burden those character types.

But, we have expel.

I believe the current situation is balanced.

[RogueGunslinger]

By raising starting contact, that makes starting barrier that much worse. Barrier already works in such a way that if both skills at at the same level, a person can break through your barrier after a couple tries, it doesn't make much since for it to start lower than the contact skill, they should be on the same level as was intended when both skills were introduced, before one got a bump, and the other didn't.

I don't believe raising barrier would make it harder(on a noticeable level) for newbies to contact people.

Maxed barrier is great, so is maxed contact, or any skill maxed. But it's starting level is painfully and annoyingly low, and requires much practice to even sustain, let alone be useful.


Edit: Oh, And I believe it would be more realistic, as well as more playable.

[Kryos]

I don't see a need for barrier to be improved for new characters.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't believe that it's "realistic" for most mundane commoner VNPCs/NPCs, anywhere, to ever use barrier. I think barrier is a highly-specialized skill that is used by PCs who have reasons to use it. So I think it's completely realistic for it to start out totally crappy.

As to playability, the game is totally playable without using barrier ever. I don't think I even knew barrier really existed, or what it was for, until I'd been playing ARM for six RL months.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hmm? Why wouldn't barrier be common use, If psionics are? Could you imagine having a telephone that you -had- to answer every time, and couldn't hang up? It'd get annoying and you'd practice the only ability you know of to stop it.

When I talk about playability I'm talking about having a ten days played character who's required to train the skill, not being able to block out a newbie with a little bit of persistence and the smarts to rest. It's anecdotal, but it's pretty crazy anyways, and probably shouldn't ever happen. Sure it's playable, but it's not fun, and doesn't really align with how I imagine psioncs to be in the game.

[jhunter]

I agree with RogueGunslinger. Barrier should start at a power level to match that of contact. It's plenty realistic for people to want to have quiet time in their heads and to be at least equally talented at doing so to begin with. The newbie argument doesn't really play into it. If someone wants to be available, they will not have barrier up. If they are busy and do not wish to be bothered they will do their best to keep people out of their mind. As it stands now, you start out having to play catchup with contact instead of a realistic balance to begin with.

[Kryos]

Barrier is a skill that when discussed, often raises my ire.  People's reasons for 'leveling' it are rarely in character.  Its information they gained from other experiences impacting their current pc.  Not always, mind you, nor everyone, but its often the reason.

Like Gimf has said, if you're some social standout that gets their mind sought often, very often, (byn serg, GMH merchant, and so on) then you might very well use barrier in order to gain a measure of peace.  Other reasons are rarely discovered by pcs, and is a IC thing to learn, each time you make a new dude.

In short, no need to tweak it.

[Oleupata]

I think what you're looking for is called expel.

[RogueGunslinger]

Barrier is a skill that when discussed, often raises my ire.  People's reasons for 'leveling' it are rarely in character.  Its information they gained from other experiences impacting their current pc.  Not always, mind you, nor everyone, but its often the reason.

Like Gimf has said, if you're some social standout that gets their mind sought often, very often, (byn serg, GMH merchant, and so on) then you might very well use barrier in order to gain a measure of peace.  Other reasons are rarely discovered by pcs, and is a IC thing to learn, each time you make a new dude.

In short, no need to tweak it.

People reasons for leveling are rarely IC? There could be a billion reasons to raise it for your character.

Why do you believe a commoner or anyone else wouldn't keep frequent contact with friends, family, workmates, or anyone else, just as much as someone who's got a busy worklife?

We're talking about the mass ability to instantly contact anyone at any time, instantly. If this was common practice, then you bet your ass my 'rinther elf is going to find a way to keep his mom from popping in and nagging him about doing his part for the tribe at any time.

I think what you're looking for is called expel.

Didn't even know this existed for a long time, easily two years. The fact that there -is- a more specialized skill for doing essentially exactly what Barrier does, only further makes me believe barrier should be common, and practiced widely enough for it's skill to warrant being higher for newbies.

[Jingo]

I'd like to see boost in effectiveness.

For what it's meant to protect you from, it doesn't do much protecting.

[Cutthroat]

Barrier works quite well the way it is, and when it does fail, expel is (hopefully) there to fall back on. I don't agree that expel does what barrier does - although it is another defensive measure, we know it functions differently, and it's important to not simply dismiss it because it's not barrier.

If you are a mundane, your ability to defend against unusual things should be middling or low anyway.

[RogueGunslinger]

Barrier works quite well the way it is, and when it does fail, expel is (hopefully) there to fall back on. I don't agree that expel does what barrier does - although it is another defensive measure, we know it functions differently, and it's important to not simply dismiss it because it's not barrier.

If you are a mundane, your ability to defend against unusual things should be middling or low anyway.

If you're anything but a mindbender, don't you mean? I think one's ability to defend against [skill that class specializes specifically in] should be directly related to whether they're [class with skill] too.

And I'm sure that's how it is. Raising -starting- barrier won't keep people from being mindbended, trust me. It will just allow people to block others from contacting them somewhat easier.

[RogueGunslinger]

I was thinking about it, and wouldn't it make more sense if the ability to Expel was a starting skill, and barrier branched from it?

[Reiloth]

I think things are fine the way they are. Getting barrier to a decent level doesn't require much patience, but just enough.

[RogueGunslinger]

Seriously though, shouldn't expell come first, being that's it's only used to get people out of your head, where as barrier keeps people from ever getting in, and also stops people from waying you if they do get in. Seems more powerful, and makes the expell skill seem almost useless.

[Cutthroat]

I was thinking about it, and wouldn't it make more sense if the ability to Expel was a starting skill, and barrier branched from it?

I agree with the logic of this, though it's probably too late to change now, unfortunately.

[Gimfalisette]

Because of the way that expel actually works currently, I disagree that it would make a better or more realistic or more logical or more useful starting skill.

[spawnloser]

it doesn't make much sense

Fixed.  Not a big thing, but someone proficient in a language using a wrong but similar word bothers the hell out of me.

I don't think I even really knew barrier existed, or what it was for, until I'd been playing ARM for six RL months.

This.  I won't explain what made me learn the real uses of the 'barrier' skill, but it really is something you should have to work for.

I agree with RogueGunslinger. Barrier should start at a power level to match that of contact.

Why?  Most people really don't need to 'barrier'.  It's only people that really need to 'barrier' that should use 'barrier' and get good at it, just like only people that really need to use their combat skills will put themselves into situations where they can use those skills and get better at them.

For what it's meant to protect you from, it doesn't do much protecting.

I say you're wrong.  I'm sure others will agree with me.  It can give the newer character enough protection from other newer characters.  When it is maxxed, it gives enough protection against others that have those skills it opposes maxxed.  By the non-psionicists get 'barrier' and 'contact' maxxed, they should also have 'expel' which further helps against those with more advanced psionic skills.

I think things are fine the way they are. Getting barrier to a decent level doesn't require much patience, but just enough.

Actually, no it doesn't.

Seriously though, shouldn't expell come first, being that's it's only used to get people out of your head, where as barrier keeps people from ever getting in, and also stops people from waying you if they do get in.

No.  It doesn't keep people from getting in.  It makes it more difficult to get in.  Also, it is only a stopgap method of keeping people that are in from doing something to you.

[RogueGunslinger]

it doesn't make much sense

Fixed.  Not a big thing, but someone proficient in a language using a wrong but similar word bothers the hell out of me.

Wow, that's actually embarrassing. Don't no why I fucked that up.

[mansa]

After 10 days of playing, barrier works the way I want it to.
Same with most of my other skills I have and actively use.

[Dan]

it doesn't make much sense

Fixed.  Not a big thing, but someone proficient in a language using a wrong but similar word bothers the hell out of me.

Wow, that's actually embarrassing. Don't no why I fucked that up.

Haha...

[Lizzie]

Personally, in my experience with the majority of my characters, I've had MUCH more reason to use expel, or wish I had expel, than I have to use barrier, or wish it was any good.

In *most* cases, my characters have need/reason to keep their minds available to be contacted, and to contact others. However, often there are people who might contact them, who they really don't want to talk to, or even have to deal with. Expel is the solution to that...however one can't even branch expel, without having first gotten good with barrier. And if one has no IC reason to USE barrier, let alone get any good with it, then you're basically fucked.

[Gimfalisette]

However, often there are people who might contact them, who they really don't want to talk to, or even have to deal with. Expel is the solution to that...however one can't even branch expel, without having first gotten good with barrier. And if one has no IC reason to USE barrier, let alone get any good with it, then you're basically fucked.

Barrier actually works quite well in that circumstance. It's preferable to expel in a couple of ways, even.

[Zoltan]

I don't think any change is necessary, or especially realistic. If you have a reason to use barrier, use it. I have never had any character try to "work" on his barrier skills unless he was explicitly instructed to by a superior or if something happened to make it necessary. I'm not going to dig up the quote, but someone earlier said that they get a slight OOC, maybe power-gamish feeling occasionally when barrier use gets brought up IC. I totally agree.

Rather than people on Zalanthas just getting awesome with barrier, I imagine that most would just learn to ignore people who Wayed them when they feel like it. In fact, I did that before and it worked great!