Assess -v

[SMuz]

I think there's a bit too much effort put into trying to not look like a half-elf. What's the point of playing a breed if you're going to miss out on the whole package of the roleplay that comes with it? It should be rare enough that you could make a spec app for it every time you want to play one, like Xygax suggested. Otherwise, it should be quite codedly obvious.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I know that you're just trying to come up with a good solution, Noteworthy, but I think that further adding to karma roles instead of holding people to the strict standards of RP that Arm is famous for (well, semi-famous, but I hope you understands what I mean) will only be discouraging to newer players. I've had PC's that have played around hidden breeds and I noticed using assess-v, sure, but it's not really so hard to leave it out and wait for the proper moment to roleplay it out. Even if it might be something that, for instance, your PC might instigate, like hemoting noticing the shape of the other PC's ear as it pokes through their hair for a moment or something of that nature.

It's very easy for someone who's been around long enough to accrue a good deal of karma not to think about or not to remember how easy it is for newer players to get discouraged by certain things. Especially if, for instance, they are coming from a H&S mud to here and they are already questioning their roleplay constantly, then to keep taking more and more of their character options away is only discouraging, and, IMHO, leads to a sort of slippery slope. Trusting everything to karma is every bit as bad as trusting everything to code, because it's so easy for good players to get overlooked in the process of recieving it.

[FantasyWriter]

What's the point of playing a breed if you're going to miss out on the whole package of the roleplay that comes with it?

Part of the half-elf package IS trying to fit in.
And most of the rest of the package in internal RP.

[hyzhenhok]

option 2 will give us LOTS of coded half elves for the added benefits of the race without the enforced and coded social stigma. great. as if there weren't enough breeds already.

Be racist against people who look like half elves, not merely against those whose s-desc or assess -v tells you are half-elf. I trust the imms not to approve fat or burly half-elves, or ones that fall outside of the "tall humans-short elves" range, or ones with perfectly human (or perfectly elven) facial features and ears. If you see a human who is tall or skinny or has funny ears, don't bother with assess -v and just call him a breed regardless of what his coded race is. You see that ear-less "human"? Obviously he's a breed who cut off his ears to try and blend in. Your character won't fall for such silly tricks!

Come on, it'll be fun!

I think there's a bit too much effort put into trying to not look like a half-elf. What's the point of playing a breed if you're going to miss out on the whole package of the roleplay that comes with it? It should be rare enough that you could make a spec app for it every time you want to play one, like Xygax suggested. Otherwise, it should be quite codedly obvious.

No, it should not have to be special apped because the documentation said it is both possible and common. Either the documentation needs to be changed so that it no longer tricks players into thinking coded half elves are able to pass off as anything (help half elf refers to the coded race itself, right?), or they actually need to be able to pass off as something besides half-elves.

[Agent_137]

if you appear so human that no human could ever detect you are a half elf, then roll a human with half-elf in the background! Why are you rolling half-elf if not for the racial perks?? staff have even said the same thing. Ass -v is not broken. players are.

[brytta.leofa]

Heh, I missed this whole thread 'til now (in the which, for once, I would apparently have agreed with Synthesis).  But question:

You're welcome to play a half-elf hiding your racial heritage.  Just make your race be "human" or "elf" instead of half-elf.

I was told this in an app rejection:

If there is any elf in this character's lineage, the race must be half-elf. If the traits are superficial, please specify that in the background and I will approve it.

What I'm taking this to mean is that, in the spectrum from not-elf to all-elf, there should be a very strong bias toward apping them as half-elf.

Does 1/8 to 7/8 skinny = breed?

[spawnloser]

Because a human with some elven blood is still a human.  They aren't neurotic about fitting in AND being independent at the same time, which is a half-elven thing.  It's not about the coded advantages.  It's about the race, for me.  It's about the RP.  A human is a human is a human... a half-elf is something entirely different.  Deep down inside, that's the truth, and you'll play a human with elven blood somewhere back there differently than you will the character that is half-elf.  Just KNOWING that your character is a half-elf makes you perceive it differently.  People complain about immersion, and this is one of those things that's just kinda a lampshade for non-immersion.

[NoteworthyFellow]

A short enough half-elf could pretty easily pass himself off as a tall, slender human. Long enough hair will sufficiently cover slightly-pointed ears, and vaguely almond-shaped eyes--if that trait is even noticeable at all--are possible in full-blooded humans, as well. And, hell, if he's really afraid of being discovered, he can mutilate his own ears so the points are gone and they're just scarred. Battle scars!

My point is, with the current code, no matter what IC lengths your character goes to in order to disguise his elven heritage, it can all be easily undone by a single "assess -v" and the assessor suddenly "noticing" those oddly-shaped eyes of yours, or that you look a little too skinny, or whatever. I'm a huge proponent of "fool the player, fool the character"--that is to say, in more cases than many would like to admit, unless you can fool the player, you can't fool the character. Unfortunately, that's pretty well impossible in this case.

Letting players of half-elves decide if they can pass for human or elf codedly will allow hidden half-elves to, well, actually be hidden. Me, I've intentionally played open half-elves before, and if the code went in, I'd do it again, but I'd also play a hidden one now and again, something that I've given up on, currently. I don't think I'm that atypical.

[FantasyWriter]

[mansa]

http://www.elfwood.com/art/a/a/aal/half_elf2.jpg

I always think of Tanis the half-elf.

And then I go back to thinking about grade school.

[jmordetsky]

A short enough half-elf could pretty easily pass himself off as a tall, slender human. Long enough hair will sufficiently cover slightly-pointed ears, and vaguely almond-shaped eyes--if that trait is even noticeable at all--are possible in full-blooded humans

It's been stated by staff a couple of times (and wisely I think) that if you want half-elf abilities, then you have enough elf blood in you to make your recognizable as a half-elf. If you want to be a half-elf that has so little human/elven blood in him/her that he is able to blend with human/elf society that you should choose that race and rp being of mixed heritage.

That seems completely reasonable + fair to me.

[SMuz]

This sort of makes me wonder whether a desert elf would appear to be "another race" to a city elf.

[number13]

If you want to be a half-elf that has so little human/elven blood in him/her that he is able to blend with human/elf society that you should choose that race and rp being of mixed heritage.

That seems completely reasonable + fair to me.

Agreed. Things are fine as they are. I don't want to see a glut of hidden half-breeds, mostly. I'd fear for a situation where every last single Tor Scorpion represented by a PC would be a half-elf "desperately" hiding his heritage.

[Salt Merchant]

Maybe only humans or maybe only elves can spot the difference at first, but in the end, -everyone- knows, because as a PC, there's no such thing as being anonymous in a crowd. I'd recommend that people considering playing half-elves who trying to pass for human (why would any of them try to pass for an elf?) not bother.

[Synthesis]

Maybe only humans or maybe only elves can spot the difference at first, but in the end, -everyone- knows, because as a PC, there's no such thing as being anonymous in a crowd. I'd recommend that people considering playing half-elves who trying to pass for human (why would any of them try to pass for an elf?) not bother.

Heh, I've seen a half-elf PC who had 'elf' as his sdesc.

[SMuz]

Lol, I can imagine the flood of complaints on an elf that ride mounts and is damn good at it

[hyzhenhok]

A short enough half-elf could pretty easily pass himself off as a tall, slender human. Long enough hair will sufficiently cover slightly-pointed ears, and vaguely almond-shaped eyes--if that trait is even noticeable at all--are possible in full-blooded humans

It's been stated by staff a couple of times (and wisely I think) that if you want half-elf abilities, then you have enough elf blood in you to make your recognizable as a half-elf. If you want to be a half-elf that has so little human/elven blood in him/her that he is able to blend with human/elf society that you should choose that race and rp being of mixed heritage.

That seems completely reasonable + fair to me.

The docs need to be fixed to reflect it.

End of story.

[LauraMars]

Lots of characters have passed for humans in the past...and they have been half elves.  I've also seen half-elves passing as elves too.  I don't mind it.

It would be nice to get a definitive staff answer/doc upgrade though.  For game consistency.

[Is Friday]

I'd like assess -v to give a more definitive description of height, if not weight. It's so goddamn vague.

[Fathi]

Posting this here so as to avoid starting a thread for no reason other than to say HELL YEAH.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35672.msg457755.html#new

That's pretty super.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Posting this here so as to avoid starting a thread for no reason other than to say HELL YEAH.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35672.msg457755.html#new

That's pretty super.

Looks like we got our staff answer.

Also, I suddenly have the urge to dig out all those old half-elf concepts I'd avoided playing for fear of assess -v. 

[SMuz]

OMG OMG they gave the best solution to the problem

I'm still going to play half-elves that look like humans by mdesc but are revealed as half-elves via assess -v

[FantasyWriter]

Thanks Morg!
Always nice to see the game reflecting doc.

[Thunkkin]

Kudos to the coders, but also to the staff in general for the no-doubt lengthy discussions and decisions behind this code update.

Bravo.

[Veges]

Will half-elves who choose to codedly resemble elves be given a higher allundean skill to reflect their likelihood of having spent more time among elves?