New delay on "draw" command

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I really love the new code delay, that kicks in after you draw a weapon.

Some things it does to the game:

1) makes you require more tactics planning when attempting to kill something quickly
2) makes one weapon fighters get an advantage over fighters who need to draw two weapons to dual wield
3) does not hinder defensive drawing because the delay comes after the draw, so you can still defend yourself instantly, but it makes a sudden attack without warning more difficult for attackers to pull off

I'd really, really love to see the same delay added to the "sheathe" command, so that it could add things like:

1) creating a speed advantage to just dropping your weapon hastily, instead of sheathing it
2) a subduer would now have reason to hastily drop his weapons when attempting to subdue someone quickly, instead of being able to sheathe them instantly before the subdue attempt (as is the case with the current code)
3) making people more wary about sheathing and drawing their weapons in general, because the whole process now takes time

So there's my initial observation on the change and an added suggestion. Let's see more feedback on the change in this thread.

[Yang]

Gives silent draw from sheathes more value. I think that seeing conveniently located sheathes on people for small, silently drawn knives will now look a little more badass. Those are just a couple thoughts.

[Twilight]

I wouldn't like to see sheath delay, as I think it would encourage guild sniffing.  There are some people out there that are more dangerous without a weapon in their hands than with one, but in order to not instantly give themselves away in certain situations, like wandering around in the wastes, need to have a weapon in hand.  To discourage guild sniffing.

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I wouldn't like to see sheath delay, as I think it would encourage guild sniffing.  There are some people out there that are more dangerous without a weapon in their hands than with one, but in order to not instantly give themselves away in certain situations, like wandering around in the wastes, need to have a weapon in hand.  To discourage guild sniffing.

Uh, drop the weapon instead of sheathing it to avoid the delay, if you need to do it quickly?

Carrying around weapons your PC can't use well as a way to prevent "guild sniffing" is not something I think should be taken into account when trying to balance out a combat engine.

[Mudder]

I'm not liking the draw lag. I think its a little to long. I clocked it with my hg and it took me 10 seconds a piece to get both of my weapons drawn, so that would be a total of 20 seconds before I had both weapons drawn.

[Hymwen]

Yeah, I like the draw delay but when I heard how long it took for even a human with average agility, I felt sorry for the half-giants. Maybe there should be a max to how long it can take to prevent unrealistic situations.

[jhunter]

From what I've been hearing it is unrealistically long for all concerned.

[Hymwen]

Not for people with high agility.

[Mudder]

Not for people with high agility.

Seriously though, how freaking slow and clumsy do you have to be to take 20 seconds to draw something? I know hg's are freaking slow, but dang. It just seems a bit extreme to be that long.

[spawnloser]

I haven't seen anything unrealistic with delays on the draw command.

...and I'm playing a HG.

[Mudder]

I haven't seen anything unrealistic with delays on the draw command.

...and I'm playing a HG.

I have used a stopwatch to time the delay between each draw. So, I dunno.

[Cyrian20]

So I used it for the first time today with a ba agi human and the delay still wasn't that long. Big half giants and the such should focus on wielding just one weapon anyways and going "GRUK SMASH!!!!"

Anyways I think it is a little long on low agi characters, but if your one of those people you may want to think about if your low agi character should really be using two weapons.

[Cegar]

Why is it based only on agility? It should be based more on weapon skill than agility. And really, it takes less than a second for anyone with any weapon training to draw a weapon. Seems silly and unrealistic to me.

[Agent_137]

Yeah, I like the draw delay but when I heard how long it took for even a human with average agility, I felt sorry for the half-giants. Maybe there should be a max to how long it can take to prevent unrealistic situations.

I'm not quite sure why this was put in.

Playability? No.
Realism? Not really.
Balance? Since when are we concerned about balance?


In anycase, i disapprove of a 10 second draw time on a half-giant on the grounds of absurdity. Stop and count to ten . . . . . . . . . . absurd. Either fix it with weapon skill reducing the delay, or with a max draw time.

[Cyrian20]

Yeah, I like the draw delay but when I heard how long it took for even a human with average agility, I felt sorry for the half-giants. Maybe there should be a max to how long it can take to prevent unrealistic situations.

I'm not quite sure why this was put in.

Playability? No.
Realism? Not really.
Balance? Since when are we concerned about balance?


In anycase, i disapprove of a 10 second draw time on a half-giant on the grounds of absurdity. Stop and count to ten . . . . . . . . . . absurd. Either fix it with weapon skill reducing the delay, or with a max draw time.

I think a slightly lower delay is alright. The current way though, sort of forces big lumbering characters to use one weapon like it sould be*, less ninja half giants and more "GRUK SMASH WITH HUGE LOG"

That said I think logs should be bludgeon weapons. I am serious on that, you do that and I will play a half giant that uses a giant baobab log to smash stuff... and a log crafted with a mandible should be the half giant version of a board with a nail in it.

*remember the delay comes after you draw, not before hand. So if it really is ten seconds of lag, it only takes ten seconds to draw two weapons not twenty (sort of like the snail climbs 5 feet and falls three question when you were in the third grade)

[Mudder]

Yeah, I like the draw delay but when I heard how long it took for even a human with average agility, I felt sorry for the half-giants. Maybe there should be a max to how long it can take to prevent unrealistic situations.

I'm not quite sure why this was put in.

Playability? No.
Realism? Not really.
Balance? Since when are we concerned about balance?


In anycase, i disapprove of a 10 second draw time on a half-giant on the grounds of absurdity. Stop and count to ten . . . . . . . . . . absurd. Either fix it with weapon skill reducing the delay, or with a max draw time.

I think a slightly lower delay is alright. This way though, sort of forces big lumbering characters to use one weapon like it would be, less ninja half giants and more "GRUK SMASH WITH HUGE LOG"

That said I think logs should be bludgeon weapons. I am serious on that, you do that and I will play a half giant that uses a giant baobab log to smash stuff.

Yeah, but half-giants are so slow already, you really need that extra attack a round. Half-giants get walked around on with number of attacks during a round of attacks. Which is alright.

[Cyrian20]

Yeah, but half-giants are so slow already, you really need that extra attack a round. Half-giants get walked around on with number of attacks during a round of attacks. Which is alright.

Hmmm I can't help but agree with you there, I have seen half giants owned by newb assassins because of the number of attacks they get.

[Mudder]

Yeah, but half-giants are so slow already, you really need that extra attack a round. Half-giants get walked around on with number of attacks during a round of attacks. Which is alright.

Hmmm I can't help but agree with you there, I have seen half giants owned by newb assassins because of the number of attacks they get.

Yup, which is why I will do whatever it means to get just that little bit extra. That extra attack, which may not be a whole lot compared to the other guys, but coming from a half-giant, it can turn the tides of the fight your way rather quickly.

[Mudder]

I wouldnt mind the draw lag if it was lowered just a tad. I mean, a half-giant could get pawned fairly quickly before he could manage to get his weps drawn.

[Cyrian20]

I wouldnt mind the draw lag if it was lowered just a tad. I mean, a half-giant could get pawned fairly quickly before he could manage to get his weps drawn.

I just thought of something to address your idea: We need to take into account how it would pretty much ignore the lag for d elves if we shortened it. Also with reeling if your giant gets out one weapon and hits, he may find himself with the time needed to get that second one out. (which I still stand by the idea big lumbering brutes shouldn't always be dual wielder ninjas)

Just something to bounce ideas off of.

[Mudder]

I wouldnt mind the draw lag if it was lowered just a tad. I mean, a half-giant could get pawned fairly quickly before he could manage to get his weps drawn.

I just thought of something to address your idea: We need to take into account how it would pretty much ignore the lag for d elves if we shortened it. Also with reeling if your giant gets out one weapon and hits, he may find himself with the time needed to get that second one out. (which I still stand by the idea big lumbering brutes shouldn't always be dual wielder ninjas)

Just something to bounce ideas off of.

Hrm, good point. Maybe we should just keep it like it is, the daze would give a hg plenty of time. It would only be 10 seconds to get your weapons drawn, but after that second weapon drawn, there would still be another 10 seconds or so before you could input another command, correct?

[Cyrian20]

I wouldnt mind the draw lag if it was lowered just a tad. I mean, a half-giant could get pawned fairly quickly before he could manage to get his weps drawn.

I just thought of something to address your idea: We need to take into account how it would pretty much ignore the lag for d elves if we shortened it. Also with reeling if your giant gets out one weapon and hits, he may find himself with the time needed to get that second one out. (which I still stand by the idea big lumbering brutes shouldn't always be dual wielder ninjas)

Just something to bounce ideas off of.

Hrm, good point. Maybe we should just keep it like it is, the daze would give a hg plenty of time. It would only be 10 seconds to get your weapons drawn, but after that second weapon drawn, there would still be another 10 seconds or so before you could input another command, correct?

Yep (i think) good point, still a hg with two weapons equals daze heaven. I don't mind waiting ten seconds before I show you what a HG with spiky armor can do when he slams into you.

[Mudder]

I wouldnt mind the draw lag if it was lowered just a tad. I mean, a half-giant could get pawned fairly quickly before he could manage to get his weps drawn.

I just thought of something to address your idea: We need to take into account how it would pretty much ignore the lag for d elves if we shortened it. Also with reeling if your giant gets out one weapon and hits, he may find himself with the time needed to get that second one out. (which I still stand by the idea big lumbering brutes shouldn't always be dual wielder ninjas)

Just something to bounce ideas off of.

Hrm, good point. Maybe we should just keep it like it is, the daze would give a hg plenty of time. It would only be 10 seconds to get your weapons drawn, but after that second weapon drawn, there would still be another 10 seconds or so before you could input another command, correct?

Yep (i think) good point, still a hg with two weapons equals daze heaven. I don't mind waiting ten seconds before I show you what a HG with spiky armor can do when he slams into you.

Yep (i think) good point, hehe. I guess waiting another ten seconds before you can put in another command is alright. I mean, you do have both weapons in hand and defending yourself, so its not like you are completely vunerable.

[Cyrian20]

Yep (i think) good point, hehe. I guess waiting another ten seconds before you can put in another command is alright. I mean, you do have both weapons in hand and defending yourself, so its not like you are completely vunerable.

Plus with everything else, voice your concerns and someone will look into it and tweak it. I would say if your currently playing a HG and it is just ruining your playability log and send it in to the mud account. Giving your opinions for the other players to work with on the board helps also.

[X-D]

I cannot figure out the point to having it at all.

No, really, as has already been stated, its not for realism or playability, and definitly gives no balance.

I logged in, then after a brief bit of testing (my pc has VERY high agi for his race) with weapons sheathed back, hung from belt and in draw sheaths. I then logged off and got out a bunch of my weapons IRL.
Strapped on a sabre and a dagger on belt, Well, the sabre has its own belt which I strapped on then tied on the daggers sheath. Strapped on the rather impressive battle axe, back holstered. Then attached all the hidden stilletos and knives. And stood in my living room looking silly to my wife as I drew weapons the sheathed them.

Now, all the hidden weapons are either throwing types or stealthy types, IE no guards or anything else to snag or get tangled.

In no case did drawing a weapon take more then 2 seconds, The battle axe is actually one of the fastest to draw unless you miss the lashing, but even if you miss an extra pull just breaks the lashing (supposed to be that way). In almost every case it took longer to sheath the weapon then to draw it.

So, Unrealistic unbalancing and adding nothing to playability...somebody mind letting us know what the rational is behind this worthless bit of code?

(edit)
Alright, I came up with one reason on my own.... and thats just to give a person a chance if somebody does the draw;kill...but if thats the case the lag should be even across the board, so, thats not the reasoning.

Also, I'd like to add, other then thinking it was a waste of time, this bit of code does not actually bother me, I don't think it helps or hurts playability but is a simple annoyance that I get to shake my head at several times per playing session.