New delay on "draw" command

[Flaming Ocotillo]

I then logged off and got out a bunch of my weapons IRL.
Strapped on a sabre and a dagger on belt, Well, the sabre has its own belt which I strapped on then tied on the daggers sheath. Strapped on the rather impressive battle axe, back holstered. Then attached all the hidden stilletos and knives.

We'd love to see a web link to a pic of you helping contribute in this manner!

So, Unrealistic unbalancing and adding nothing to playability...somebody mind letting us know what the rational is behind this worthless bit of code?

1) Gives people a chance to respond to a draw and attack scenario
2) Gives more of a purpose to sleight of hand draws from sheathes
3) Allows you to do cool shit like disarm a person who just drew a weapon, and then punch them in the face for a few seconds of hollywood brawl!

hahahaha

[Lizzie]

I'm not sure why this new code is a problem for anyone. If you don't like the delay, you can just forego the nice echo you get with the draw command and set up a mini-macro/alias:

wdraw (for weapon draw and wield)

rem dagger
wield dagger

hdraw (for weapon draw and hold)
rem longknife
hold longknife

Voila - no delay, problem solved. The only thing you don't get out of it is the echo you get when you use the draw command, which I presonally like and will continue to use even with the delay.

[Angela Christine]

Voila - no delay, problem solved. The only thing you don't get out of it is the echo you get when you use the draw command, which I presonally like and will continue to use even with the delay.

I think using macros this way to avoid a coded delay might be considered misuse, because it gives you an unfair advantage over non-macroed people.

[Cyrian20]

Voila - no delay, problem solved. The only thing you don't get out of it is the echo you get when you use the draw command, which I presonally like and will continue to use even with the delay.

I think using macros this way to avoid a coded delay might be considered misuse, because it gives you an unfair advantage over non-macroed people.

Yeah that is the type of thing when after you do it,

Code Select Expand


Halaster the uber leet sorc/psion of doom has arrived from the up

Magick swirls around Halaster as he utters an incantation

Halaster casts "mon un imm rek nub" room

*beep*


[Dalmeth]

Uhh... you people are strange.   There really is nothing wrong with that alias.  It's no worse than walking around with your weapons in your inventory and having an alias to equip them, aside from the extra spam.

If the staff didn't want people doing that, they would added delays to normal wielding.

[Cyrian20]

Uhh... you people are strange.   There really is nothing wrong with that alias.  It's no worse than walking around with your weapons in your inventory and having an alias to equip them, aside from the extra spam.

If the staff didn't want people doing that, they would added delays to normal wielding.

Give it a moment

[rufus]

Dual-wield drawing shouldn't take anymore delay than a normal, single draw.
Think about it, you're wearing a belt with two longknives situated in an easy-to-get position, you use both of your hands to draw at the same time.
Should be pretty simple, right?

Maybe draw delay should be based more on the weight of the weapon than agility.

[Angela Christine]

It's no worse than walking around with your weapons in your inventory and having an alias to equip them,

I think that would be bad too, if the purpose for doing it was to avoid a coded delay.


I can't think of a reason why a person would do that though, other than by accident.  Walking around with your sword tucked under your arm sounds dangerous!  :twisted:  More importantly, for most people, stuff in your inventory is even easier to steal than stuff on your belt.  If you make a habit of carrying your sword in your inventory, then you should plan on buying new swords on a regular basis.

[jhunter]

Overall, I'm really unsatisfied and unhappy with the direction combat is taking codewise. If it continues in this direction, as much as I hate to say it, I will be moving away from Armageddon. This isn't some sort of threat or anything like that (and I'm sure plenty of you would do a dance or something if I did), I just don't like the direction the combat code is going in. It seems to be heading in the direction from being a simple thing, to becoming clunky, slow, and cumbersome. I find myself disliking the combat system more and more.

[spawnloser]

It seems to be heading in the direction from being a simple thing, to becoming clunky, slow, and cumbersome. I find myself disliking the combat system more and more.

I think it's becoming more dynamic and interesting with so many more possibilities.  Also, if you don't like the combat system, find a role that doesn't involve high-exposure to it.

[Eternal]

Maybe draw delay should be based more on the weight of the weapon than agility.

Now -that- I like, especially when you consider daggers.  It should be one smooth motion, perhaps a dual wield draw command could be implemented 'dtwo' so to speak... and modifiers would be agility, weight of weapons, and dual wield skill (I -think- everyone gets that one.)

Edit:  I just thought of a funny name for the command... 'drall'

[najdorf]

i think a -before- attacking delay and an attacking message given to room would be better then this code change, but still it's not a big deal.

[Agent_137]

It seems to be heading in the direction from being a simple thing, to becoming clunky, slow, and cumbersome. I find myself disliking the combat system more and more.

I think it's becoming more dynamic and interesting with so many more possibilities.  Also, if you don't like the combat system, find a role that doesn't involve high-exposure to it.

when you make a combat system dymanic and interesting, coded, OOCly known tactics begin to have an advantage.

For instance, before bash and disarm, warriors learned weapons faster and had higher caps. It was simple. If a warrior with x training time attacked a ranger with x training time in toe-to-toe combat, the warrior won as his real skill was higher, just as would be the case if warrior x attacked a warrior with training time of y (where y is < x).

Now, that's still the same case, as warriors still learn faster. But if a warrior with x time goes against warrior y, and the y warrior has trained up disarm, it's likely that Y will win.

So, by adding more STUFF to the combat system, more knowledge of what to do, how to train, and how to act -codedly- is required to be successful against others of similar skill levels.

Which, in my opinion, is a good and bad thing, depending on one's taste.

So, spawn, jhunter, you're both . . . wrong! HAH. SUCK MY BALLS, ENGEL.

[Lizzie]

So if it turns out that making an alias for "rem blade wield blade" is against the rules, just type it out. I mean sheesh it takes less time to type both commands than you have to wait for a delay, so why dwell on the alias idea? Unless you want typing out "rem blade wield blade" to become against the rules too and require "draw" to be implemented as the -only- way to get the blade in your hand? I've seen plenty of people make aliases and macros for lots of things, from wielding weapons to "dismount/rent kank/open pack/put ticket pack/close pack" and I haven't heard anyone complain about those things, so why would this one be such a big deal? Aliasing renting a kank, putting the ticket in your pack, and closing your pack prevents the would-be kank-ticket-thief from stealing grabbing your ticket and running off with it.

Honestly, I don't see what the problem is, unless you want to make all "potential RP-preventing aliases" against the rules. And I think the staff -and- players have more interesting things to do with their time than to monitor every single PC to check if they're using any possible alias that might some day prevent a potentially interesting moment of RP.

L. Stanson

[Cyrian20]

So if it turns out that making an alias for "rem blade wield blade" is against the rules, just type it out. I mean sheesh it takes less time to type both commands than you have to wait for a delay, so why dwell on the alias idea? Unless you want typing out "rem blade wield blade" to become against the rules too and require "draw" to be implemented as the -only- way to get the blade in your hand? I've seen plenty of people make aliases and macros for lots of things, from wielding weapons to "dismount/rent kank/open pack/put ticket pack/close pack" and I haven't heard anyone complain about those things, so why would this one be such a big deal? Aliasing renting a kank, putting the ticket in your pack, and closing your pack prevents the would-be kank-ticket-thief from stealing grabbing your ticket and running off with it.

Honestly, I don't see what the problem is, unless you want to make all "potential RP-preventing aliases" against the rules. And I think the staff -and- players have more interesting things to do with their time than to monitor every single PC to check if they're using any possible alias that might some day prevent a potentially interesting moment of RP.

L. Stanson

Because your trying to get around the code. Years back you could subdue a person and then throw them through a guarded entrance and nothing happened. That was just working around the code and was unfair. The delay to draw is to prevent

Code Select Expand


Sit at bar
talk (tapping dried poo from the side of his boots with ~staff) Morning guys, so what is the plan for our day off

Some elf says, "Shut up you annoying shitcloak"

draw sword,!,kill elf

The unarmed elf reels none stop and dies YAY!


Yes it is a nice thought but it is pure twink, now you draw a weapon and either defend or virtually approach, there is no draw, kill. Using commands to get around that is twinkish and how you end up only being allowed to play a merchant... with no crafting skills

[Majikal]

The draw delay is no problem, it gives a delay after which prevents draw sword, draw sword, kill bob from happening instantly. The delay effects you afterwards, so drawing your weapon(s) in defense doesn't effect you joining in the combat. As for the complaints about HG's not being able to draw weapons and defend themselves and bash and disarm instantly if attacked, it makes for realism in my opinion. While getting stabbed I doubt you'd draw your weapon(s) flawlessly and ninja-disarm your opponent. Now if you're surprised attacked it represents that surprise in delay of time.

[jstorrie]

Derailment! I would like to see weapon draw lag affected by weapon skill so that my fifty-day warriors could pull some leet iaijutsu shit.

[Lizzie]

Well it looks like a couple of IMMs agree with a couple of players that using an alias for this is abuse. So - just type it out. I still don't get what the big deal is. You can keep a small blade, realistically, in a pack instead of in a sheath, and alias "open pack/get blade/close pack/wield blade" and there's no delay for that at all, and there's no code anyone's trying to circumvent for it either. Bigger weapons probably would look pretty stupid coming out of a backpack, so people can always just type out the appropriate commands to get it from their sheath. Unless "rem sword" is now against the rules too?

Like I said, I just use draw and don't care about the delay. I like the echo that the command provides

L. Stanson

[Cyrian20]

Well it looks like a couple of IMMs agree with a couple of players that using an alias for this is abuse. So - just type it out. I still don't get what the big deal is. You can keep a small blade, realistically, in a pack instead of in a sheath, and alias "open pack/get blade/close pack/wield blade" and there's no delay for that at all, and there's no code anyone's trying to circumvent for it either. Bigger weapons probably would look pretty stupid coming out of a backpack, so people can always just type out the appropriate commands to get it from their sheath. Unless "rem sword" is now against the rules too?

Like I said, I just use draw and don't care about the delay. I like the echo that the command provides

L. Stanson

Still what they are saying is it is being used to get around the code. The imms could add a delay to equiping an item but that would cause a lot of trouble. You bring up a good point though, what if you just happen to have a sword in your inventory? Should the delay instead just be added when you equip a weapon (i.e. enter armed status) instead?

If so please allow no delay to emoting during it, as since people can't do anything else, they can at least emote.

[Lizzie]

Still what they are saying is it is being used to get around the code. The imms could add a delay to equiping an item but that would cause a lot of trouble. You bring up a good point though, what if you just happen to have a sword in your inventory? Should the delay instead just be added when you equip a weapon (i.e. enter armed status) instead?

If so please allow no delay to emoting during it, as since people can't do anything else, they can at least emote.

What I'm saying, is that the code exists for something that amounts to nothing more than an RP tool. Sheaths are not necessary for a character to own, contain, or operate a weapon. The sheath, therefore, is just a prop. And anything you do -with- that sheath, is fluff, from a purely code standpoint. So people who want to use sheaths, and use them with the "draw" code that comes with it, have to endure a delay that people who choose not to use a sheath, or have no need for a sheath, won't have to endure. I personally think that's silly, to "punish" (and I use that term very loosely) people for using an RP prop.

Edited to add I also think it's silly to make a big deal about it either way, because the delay isn't a deal-breaker for combat anway. It's just a second (in my experience so far), and if my character -would- be in trouble over a second, then no amount of quick typing or getting around the code or aliasing is going to change that.

L. Stanson

[jhunter]

It seems to be heading in the direction from being a simple thing, to becoming clunky, slow, and cumbersome. I find myself disliking the combat system more and more.

I think it's becoming more dynamic and interesting with so many more possibilities.  Also, if you don't like the combat system, find a role that doesn't involve high-exposure to it.

Unfortunately, combat-based roles -were- my favorite roles. The direction the combat system is going is completely ruining it for me. It seems to me that those who like slow (almost chess-like) combat stuff are being catered to and those of us who liked it the way it was are being ignored. Herding us out of the game completely, or into non-combat roles. Yay! -More- tavernsitting, whoopee!  

Either that, or I suppose I can just stick to magickers and annoy the crap out of people more. I had been staying away from them for the most part because of people's complaining and my love of combat-based pcs. I suppose I can replace that with magickers for action and excitement.

[Rhyden]

I haven't seen anything unrealistic with delays on the draw command.

...and I'm playing a HG.

^ What spawnlost said.

Maybe draw delay should be based more on the weight of the weapon than agility.

I read the thread and noticed rufus beat me to it. I think this idea would make a -whole- lot more sense. That, or a mix between weight of the weapon and agi with the agi factor significantly less in the overall draw delay.

[Morgenes]

The direction the combat system is going is completely ruining it for me. It seems to me that those who like slow (almost chess-like) combat stuff are being catered to and those of us who liked it the way it was are being ignored.

It's interesting to hear the flow of arguments on the changes that have been made.  In another thread the complaints were that now combat is too fast because you get hit so often, and now because there's a 1-2 second delay per weapon (ignoring half-giants, which I'll admit was an oversight) for drawing weapons does not a chess match make.

[path]

It's a difficult balance, especially when there are such different expectations and concepts of the ideal situation.

[jhunter]

The direction the combat system is going is completely ruining it for me. It seems to me that those who like slow (almost chess-like) combat stuff are being catered to and those of us who liked it the way it was are being ignored.

It's interesting to hear the flow of arguments on the changes that have been made.  In another thread the complaints were that now combat is too fast because you get hit so often, and now because there's a 1-2 second delay per weapon (ignoring half-giants, which I'll admit was an oversight) for drawing weapons does not a chess match make.

The direction it is going. It isn't there yet, but it's well on it's way to becoming that. And it sucks ass.