New delay on "draw" command

[Agent_137]

MINDBENDER!!!!

[jhunter]

Ssshhh.... *slaps Agent_137 upside the head*

You don't have to be a mindbender to see what's happening. I said the same think when the stamina drain that primarily nerfs warriors was added...and look at the changes now, it seems I was correct afterall. It would be nice to see something added to the combat system that wasn't negative for a change.

[Agent_137]

Like what, bullet time?

[jhunter]

Anything really, anything but the addition of more difficulty, drudgery and frustration.

[Agent_137]

Welcome to Armageddon.

[Incognito]

While this is by no means an attempt at derailment, I'd like to address the issue of using aliases to avoid the coded delay on the "draw" command - in response to the post in the Ask the Staff forum.

It's been stated that by using an alias like:
wdraw = rem weapon; wield weapon
one can avoid the delay now associated with the draw comand.

As is the case with all things Arm, the Staff's response is: If someone does this deliberately to avoid the delay from the draw command, its not kosher.

At the same time I understand that draw delay is based on agility.

I just happened to see a "Texan Quick-Draw" contest on Nat Geo channel the other day, and I was surprised to see that the highest ranked cowboys weren't lean n mean and didn't seem agile at all! Some of them were bordering on the obese and couldnt even walk at a decent pace. But when it came to "doing their thing" they sure could pull out their six-shooters and fire, before your eyes could even register it!

My point being - I dont think agility should be associated with draw delay, as a blanket. If we're gonna implement draw delay, atleast make it a skill, so that people with low agility too, can improve it over time, and perhaps even surpass those with high agility, if they practise enough.

[jmordetsky]

I just happened to see a "Texan Quick-Draw" contest on Nat Geo channel the other day, and I was surprised to see that the highest ranked cowboys weren't lean n mean and didn't seem agile at all! Some of them were bordering on the obese and couldnt even walk at a decent pace. But when it came to "doing their thing" they sure could pull out their six-shooters and fire, before your eyes could even register it!

My point being - I dont think agility should be associated with draw delay, as a blanket. If we're gonna implement draw delay, atleast make it a skill, so that people with low agility too, can improve it over time, and perhaps even surpass those with high agility, if they practise enough.

That sounds reasonable.

[Seeker]

I just happened to see a "Texan Quick-Draw" contest on Nat Geo channel the other day, and I was surprised to see that the highest ranked cowboys weren't lean n mean and didn't seem agile at all! Some of them were bordering on the obese and couldnt even walk at a decent pace. But when it came to "doing their thing" they sure could pull out their six-shooters and fire, before your eyes could even register it!

My point being - I dont think agility should be associated with draw delay, as a blanket. If we're gonna implement draw delay, atleast make it a skill, so that people with low agility too, can improve it over time, and perhaps even surpass those with high agility, if they practise enough.

That sounds reasonable.

Warriors, Assassins?  Just -not- rangers.  No more perqs for rangers, please.

Seeker

[Mudder]

I just happened to see a "Texan Quick-Draw" contest on Nat Geo channel the other day, and I was surprised to see that the highest ranked cowboys weren't lean n mean and didn't seem agile at all! Some of them were bordering on the obese and couldnt even walk at a decent pace. But when it came to "doing their thing" they sure could pull out their six-shooters and fire, before your eyes could even register it!

My point being - I dont think agility should be associated with draw delay, as a blanket. If we're gonna implement draw delay, atleast make it a skill, so that people with low agility too, can improve it over time, and perhaps even surpass those with high agility, if they practise enough.

That sounds reasonable.

Warriors, Assassins?  Just -not- rangers.  No more perqs for rangers, please.

Seeker

I second that!

[Beux]

Bullet time!

[Zalanthan]

Like what, bullet time?

I am very new, so I can't say I have any experience with the former system, but I have played several RPI MUDs before and I certainly don't see anything wrong with this draw delay.  And perhaps "bullet time" is a useful way of thinking about it:

I am surprised at how many seem to have a problem with the realism of this delay.  The concept of time on any RPI MUD is a tricky one: crossing vast distances (outdoor rooms) takes, technically, less than one IC minute, while exchanging simple greetings to a passing stranger on the road can oddly take upwards of an IC hour.  Thus, it takes a bit of imagination to presume that you didn't really spend that little/much time doing said activity.  This is a good thing; in the above examples, it allows me to travel to my destination at an appropriate speed (imagine the boredom of a realistic time delay when walking up, say, an incline in a sandstorm with a full pack) while also allowing me to squeeze in a little RP with someone even if my character is in a hurry (I, for one, get frustrated as a newbie when, after hours alone, I see a fellow PC walk right by me because he's speedwalking somewhere).

Which leads me to the draw delay.  No, the delay is not "realistic", but drawing your weapons and attacking someone before they have a chance to respond is extremely poor (and selfish) RP.  Sure, your character may have a reason, but how do you know the person you are attacking wasn't already eyeing you suspiciously with hand on pommel, waiting for you to foolishly charge in?  The delay adds an important chance for the victim to respond in an IC manner: if they want to RP a stunned noble or feeble old man and remain unarmed, its their choice, but they should at least have some say in the attack.

So if, after all of this, you still have a hang-up about the draw delay, I suggest you think of it as an opportunistic version of Bullet Time.  So next time you are waiting during the delay, make some Hollywood magick and compose an emote, but don't say the combat system is broken.  If you are looking for perfect realism, turn off your computer.

[spawnloser]

jhunter, how were you right when stamina drain nerfed warriors?  It doesn't only nerf warriors.  This doesn't nerf anyone any different than any others.

[jhunter]

jhunter, how were you right when stamina drain nerfed warriors?  It doesn't only nerf warriors.  This doesn't nerf anyone any different than any others.

Yes, it does. You might not agree with me, but it does. I'm tired of arguing this and noone else understanding me at all. The others that had -any- sort of stamina drain were a) Either added to only one skill that is only used once per combat realistically. b) added to a skill that has nothing to do with melee combat AND was given a benefit to balance it out


What was done to warriors is similar to having added stamina drain (with NO benefit) to archery except -only- for those of the ranger guild. Because they're the best at it so naturally they should get tired while shooting and those who are worse at it shouldn't.  :roll:

[X-D]

We'd love to see a web link to a pic of you helping contribute in this manner!

I'm sure you would, but happily the web cam was not on and so only my wife got to laugh at me.

As to people arguing that these additions have not nerfed warriors, I feel that you are not thinking it through.

They most certainly have. Sure, you can get kick through a subclass, big deal. Only warriors get bash and disarm, so, they are penalized for using combat skills, hence, nerfed. The stam drain for archery, still silly IMO. Delay after draw, also silly and pointless. These changes along with a "bug" Fix that IMO should not have been fixed are helping to push me away from the game as well.

Fixed a bug that caused blah blah blah. Big deal, there are times when you should say Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  And that defense "bug" had been in place for a long time, if nothing else it allowed time for emotes. I don't emote in combat any more, I can't, no time, no time in sparring for fear of killing my opponent and no time in combat outside the ring for obvious reasons.

This is sad, I was a real fan of combat emotes, even earned a point of karma at one time for them, and now, out the window....put the damm bug back in and call it a FEATURE.