Gem-bearing citizens of Allanak.

[a determined grunt]

I never thought I'd make a post like this. Everytime I've read them before I've generally thought various derogatory thoughts about the poster.

What's with all the gem-wearing citizen of Allanak in the bars? It really seems like at least half of the tavern-goers in Allanak are wearing a gem. At least half.


All I have to say is: Go somewhere else damn it!

[Tlaloc]

Personally, I would much rather see a magicker in a bar, interacting with the rest of the populace than, say, a magicker holed up in his Temple, spamming spells. But...thats just me.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't practice magick when the thought occurs to them, but this is ArmageddonMud, not ElementalistMud, and it would be sort of pointless to play a mage without anyone to interact with them regularly.

[a determined grunt]

Personally, I would much rather see a magicker in a bar, interacting with the rest of the populace than, say, a magicker holed up in his Temple, spamming spells. But...thats just me.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't practice magick when the thought occurs to them, but this is ArmageddonMud, not ElementalistMud, and it would be sort of pointless to play a mage without anyone to interact with them regularly.

I agree that it's much better for elementalists to have interaction. To my never-seeing all-blind eyes though, it really does seem like the ratio of mundane to elemental is messed up, as represented by the PC crowd in Allanaki taverns lately.

It just seems with so many gemmed about, they would likely have a ton of interaction if they all headed to the plaza there or something.

[Anonymous]

If gemmers are feared, do they fear eachother?

I don't think you can generalize a population as diverse as magickers since they don't share a common background or mindset like elves.

I imagine it depends on the magicker, their personality, their feelings about the other magicker and the other magicker's element of choice.

[elvenchipmunk]

I don't know what the current ratio is of gemmers vs. mundane roles, but I don't really care. I can leave that to the imms to know, and decide what is to be done about it. As for magickers hanging out in taverns, I think that even if you're a gemmer, I'm sure you still like to interact with other PC's. As Tlaloc said, I'd much rather see gemmers in a tavern, then have them holed up practicing magick 24/7. And if this does happen, let the immortals decide what is to be done.

[JohnGalt]

The population almost always fluctuates.  Sometimes you see nothing but magickers (or so you think) and sometimes there are hardly any lurking around causing mischief.  I'll say this much though, the mortality rate on magickers is pretty high, so no matter how many you see now its a good chance they won't be around in a month.

[SpyGuy]

Play it off IC, but I've felt your pain man.  If you have a tavern you feel is "yours" and your character doesn't really like gemmers by all means try to kick them out.  It may not work but if you give them a problem every time they come in they might get the message.  That also creates interaction.  And when your character isn't in an environment where he feels he can take action you might just have to suck it up and sulk in a corner.

PC Gemmed population varies over time, only thing you can really do is roll with it IC.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine a scenario where giving a magicker a hard time would seem like a good idea to your average citizen.

[Jacques]

I'm not sure I agree that the gemmers outnumber those without, but then again I don't play every hour of every day. There are certain portions of the day when I tend to see more people with gems in the taverns, while other times I can go for several IC days without ever seeing even one. I suspect it's a result of fluctuating player levels and just plain varying login times. But that's just my take on it.

[Cuusardo]

Do something about it IC.  There are TONS of things you can do.  You aren't as helpless as you may think you are.  All it takes is some creative thinking.

[Cale_Knight]

As I've said in other threads, the massive amounts of gemmed players in 'nak, especially hanging around in the bars, colored my perception as a newbie. I still have trouble "fearing" magick in Armageddon as much as I should, because my first exposure to it was to a bunch of people who sat around in the taverns thick as flies and were completely normal people.

Playing different characters, and seeing what magickers can be like outside of cities is helping, but I still think back to those three magickers sitting at the bar and talking about what color silk was in style that month...

[EvilRoeSlade]

It's hard to play a gemmed magicker.  Give them a break already.

[Dracul]

Give them...an OOC break. Such as this post. Yes...well hey. You did agree to the sentiment I'm suggesting in your original post.

Bah, it can't be fun to be a magicker and go solo just because. But give them a real hard time ICly. If your char is smart enough not to fekk with the gemmers directly. Do it indirectly. 'creatively'.

[WarriorPoet]

I think the mystery and general paranoia surrounding magick is kind of lost when there are as many magickers, gemmed and non, as there are in-game at the moment. I remember being -terrified- of the few magickers I saw as a newb. They're as common as elves, nowadays and what's worse, they're not only tolerated by large portions of the characters I see, but accepted and at time befriended. Yuck. As I heard it put in-game: I can't kick sand without it hitting one.

That said, I don't really mind seeing gemmers in the taverns. They're people, just like everyone else. I'm sure they crave booze and company, the latter probably moreso than your average Amos. That's IC, at that. The OOC restrictions on magickers are irritating and numerous, so give them a break. They're players as well, and they want to RP, not just sit around moping solo about how lonely and cursed they are.

If you don't like their presence, do something about it. It is -fun- when a few of you get nervous about the gemmer that walked in. While a lynch-mob mentality is always amusing, it's not the only way to get your point across that they're not welcome. Throw something while hidden in the crowd. Yell obscenities. Nudge your partner and whisper to him about the demon that just walked in. Keep it up until everyone in the bar is uncomfortably staring at that gemmer.

-WP

[Larrath]

Teach by example.
Why can't your PC be one of the normal people that actually do stare at magickers or move to sit somewhere else or do some superstitious ritual whenever they see one?

[Cenghiz]

Yes, do something. As someone whose half of characters are gemmers, I can say I wouldn't be bothered by irritated tavern patrons, rather I would love to have some additional plots to work on with my gemmers when there's nothing else to do.
Just one thing... If you say "You fekking witch!" and spit on a gemmer who's the loyal servant of <insert high ranking person here>, it's not really really fun for both parties. The other player gets forced to have you whipped, tortured or even worse ICly. And then nothing happens. The gemmer keeps on sitting at the tavern grinning wryly.
And to confess, I hate such not so clever approaches of disturbing gemmers, which usually does nothing good, except some temporary nuisance. No plot starts just because average joe says foul words and in exchange he gets whipped.
There are 999 other ways to disturb a gemmer real badly and cleverer solution you find, more pleased everyone will be, including the gemmer's player even if the gemmer dies.

[Forest Junkie]

I can say that playing a gemmed magicker is definitely more of a challenge than a lone wolf.

As for telling me to go somewhere else when I'm playing a gemmed magicker; why don't you come make me? Not to be a smartass, but I'd really like to see more interaction. The most I have ever gotten from patrons was their standing up and leaving the tavern immediately after my pc having sat down.

Woe is me.

[Rindan]

Gemmers need a place to socialize.  Expecting them to avoid the taverns is insane from an OOC perspective.  Few roles have bored me to more tears then my gemmed magikers, especially if my playing times meant that I couldn't be active in a clan.  Everything about the life of a gemmed is slow.  Worse still, you can only really interact with a tiny fraction of the player base.  When it is good, being a gemmed is good.  When it is bad, well, you will remember that Red Storm East character you had fondly.

Personally, I always felt that the biggest problem with gemmed was that they never had a good place to do shady things and actually RP with other gemmed.  I personally always viewed gemmed as very shady folks.  You have an entire quarter of the city devoted to them, but how many of the people in that quarter are doing 'honest' jobs?  The only honest jobs a gemmed can really do is noble house work, and I can say with pretty firm certainty that not everyone in the elementalist quarters is under the wing of a noble house.  So what exactly do those other gemmed do?

I always imagined a hole in the wall tavern on the edge of the 'rinth in the elementalist quarters.  Think of a very dark and smoky bar in some basement off in an alleyway.  A solid half of the patrons are gemmed.  The rest of the patrons?  Shady bastards, every single one of them.  No one would be throwing fire balls across the room, but no one would raise an eyebrow if a Krathi lit a pipe without putting too much effort into it.  No one would mention that the area around that Drovian in the corner seemed a little darker then the rest of the tavern.  Eye brows wouldn't be raised if table rattled a little when a Rukkian got angry.  No big magikal displays, but perhaps a few small suggestive and deniable tricks might be played.

The tavern would sit on the edge of lawlessness and be THE place to conduct your nefarious dealings.  Talk about the spice you want to unload in hushed tones, ask around for a Drovian to help you with an up coming burglary, maybe the occasional brave (or stupid) mercenary will come in looking for a Krathi to bring along on an expedition the demands a little extra fire power.  It would be a place where the law is very thin.  Granted, you wouldn't want to announce the massive spice deal you have going, then hit up the bards barrel and then expect no one to rat on you for a few 'sid, but maybe it is a place where your tongue could be a little looser and a criminal could risk dropping by.

The magik of this place is that you would give a home to two groups of people that are very much homeless AND bolster interaction in a part of the game that is lethargic at best.

The first group that would love this little bar is those looking to conduct shifty dealings in Allanak.  For those people your options are jail or nothing.  You can sit in the Barrel or the Gaj, but you will be promptly arrested as Lord Inbreed and the dozen militiamen over hear your conversation with their jacked up listen skills.  You might as well stand outside the Traders Inn and conduct your business using the shout command, because any conversation you have one of those taverns might as well be broadcast on an Allanaki chat line.  That, or you can go into the 'rinth.  The 'rinth is fine... so long as you are willing to dress the part and have roughly infinite patience to not only wait to see another PC, but the PC you need.  Waiting in the 'rinth for the shady people you need is like waiting in the salt flats for the rain to come to you.  Allanak needs more shady dealing that doesn't have a damn thing to do with noble houses or the templerate, and this would be a perfect place to conduct such dealings.

Second, the poor gemmed need a place to go to interact in a meaningful way.  Gemmed must be gluttons for abuse or hermits as things stand now, either way,  you are not going to do much meaningful interacting with other gemmed.  I recall when I was a gemmed I used to simply wander around the temples and occasionally run into a fellow gemmed.  When I felt like a real glutton for punishment, I would go hit up the barrel and practice not talking to anyone and solo emoting to a crowd.  

Was it terribly IC?  Probably not, but IC for me would have been to just go to a place where gemmed conjugate outside earshot of your average commoner and shooting the shit.  You can only shoot the shit with VNPCs so long.  Build a place for gemmed to conjugate and maybe even toy with their presence.  As it stands now, most magikers blatantly break any sort of IC sanity their character has and go chill with people that won't talk to them in places where they can't talk about what they do.  It isn't IC, it is the poor guy behind the character getting sick of the inside of his temple.  Gemmed desperately need a place to casually interact where they can speak freely.  IC places like this already exist.  It is called the elementalist quarters.  This is a purely OOC problem.  Gemmed are NOT lonely people.  Their players are.  Gemmed could actually be able to interact with each other and learn from each other's RP.  Few things bothered me more when I first started playing a gemmed then the fact that I went hundreds of hours without really ever seeing anyone else play a gemmed in any sort of depth.  

It would also make an obvious place for others to go interact with them.  Gem might actually see some business start to role around and plots spring up if suddenly there was a discrete place to have dealings with them.  Your average commoner might actually look up when he sees a gemmed in the Barrel and wonder what in the hell that grubby little magiker is up to.

Personally, I think all parties involved would be happier.  The normal taverns wouldn't notice if a couple gemmed showed up much less often.   As for the 'rinth tavern, well, it is hard to go below zero in terms of population, and it isn't like your average 'rinther is going to be inclined to hang out with magikers anyways.  The only people that wouldn't like this bar would be the magikers' pants.  Magikers would likely piss themselves if suddenly presented with so much potential for interaction.

And before anyone says "Do it IC!"  I already tried a couple years back.  It was shot down for OOC reasons at the time, though things might have changed since then.

[Forest Junkie]

Dude I thought you died from a VD or something.

*cough*

Great idea man, maybe in the future we can get something like that in game. I know I'd love it.

[mansa]

I always thought there should be a IC tavern for the magickers.  It should be a place for the templarment to own and for them to enter and pick a few out of the crowd to use for their own fulfillment.  There's a lot of benefit for it, that I think outweighs the 'seperation of the playerbase' that seems to be the biggest concern for it.

[jhunter]

Gemmers need a place to socialize. Expecting them to avoid the taverns is insane from an OOC perspective. Few roles have bored me to more tears then my gemmed magikers, especially if my playing times meant that I couldn't be active in a clan. Everything about the life of a gemmed is slow. Worse still, you can only really interact with a tiny fraction of the player base. When it is good, being a gemmed is good. When it is bad, well, you will remember that Red Storm East character you had fondly.

You hit my experience with gemmed on the nose. I agree that southern mages need a tavern for themselves. I like your ideas concerning that as well...I like them alot.


*humps Rindan's leg*

[Gaare]

Sorry for me jump into thread I do not know almost nothing, but I remember there is a place in elementalist Quarter's northwest where you can sit and enjoy weird shows of a couple of magickers? Yeah, that's not a tavern but.. well..

[proxie]

Sorry for me jump into thread I do not know almost nothing, but I remember there is a place in elementalist Quarter's northwest where you can sit and enjoy weird shows of a couple of magickers? Yeah, that's not a tavern but.. well..

So... maybe a bar could start to exist there slowly... first with a tent, then as more gemmers put virtual and IC effort into it, it could evolve into something else?

Afterall, tables inside a shelter against the winds doth a tavern make.
Maybe a Viv could toss a barrel in and some other mages could donate some of their respective goodies.

And if nobody ever goes to a tent in the Gemmer quarter, then there's probably not a lot of cause for a real tavern.

Just an idea. Or a continuation of someone else's idea.

Proxie

[Sholdyn]

I REALLY like the tent idea. It wouldn't take too much work to start up and as you said, it would be a great gauge as to how well the tavern idea would work. All you'd need in there is two or three crappy tables, a bench for one NPC "bartender" who only sells one type of drink and certain types of food. I vote yes.

[wizturbo]

Gemmers need a place to socialize. Expecting them to avoid the taverns is insane from an OOC perspective. Few roles have bored me to more tears then my gemmed magikers, especially if my playing times meant that I couldn't be active in a clan. Everything about the life of a gemmed is slow. Worse still, you can only really interact with a tiny fraction of the player base. When it is good, being a gemmed is good. When it is bad, well, you will remember that Red Storm East character you had fondly.

You hit my experience with gemmed on the nose. I agree that southern mages need a tavern for themselves. I like your ideas concerning that as well...I like them alot.


*humps Rindan's leg*

You guys we don't need a tavern.  Just use places that you already have.  There is an entire gemmed bazaar with tables, food, shade and many, many gemmed NPC's around that you can blend in with.  I've used that place for a lot of my gemmed interactions, it just takes a few more people going there regularly to hang out and it'll become a 'spot' for gemmed to gather.

There are IC reasons that a gemmed tavern doesn't exist.  There are IC reasons that there isn't many things regarding gemmed that some people might OOCly enjoy.

The reason people keep going to the 'normal guy' taverns is because they want to be involved in city affairs, but I'd prefer the gemmed act isolated as they are somewhat intended to be.  That's just my opinion though.