Gem-bearing citizens of Allanak.

[a determined grunt]

I never thought I'd make a post like this. Everytime I've read them before I've generally thought various derogatory thoughts about the poster.

What's with all the gem-wearing citizen of Allanak in the bars? It really seems like at least half of the tavern-goers in Allanak are wearing a gem. At least half.


All I have to say is: Go somewhere else damn it!

[Tlaloc]

Personally, I would much rather see a magicker in a bar, interacting with the rest of the populace than, say, a magicker holed up in his Temple, spamming spells. But...thats just me.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't practice magick when the thought occurs to them, but this is ArmageddonMud, not ElementalistMud, and it would be sort of pointless to play a mage without anyone to interact with them regularly.

[a determined grunt]

Personally, I would much rather see a magicker in a bar, interacting with the rest of the populace than, say, a magicker holed up in his Temple, spamming spells. But...thats just me.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't practice magick when the thought occurs to them, but this is ArmageddonMud, not ElementalistMud, and it would be sort of pointless to play a mage without anyone to interact with them regularly.

I agree that it's much better for elementalists to have interaction. To my never-seeing all-blind eyes though, it really does seem like the ratio of mundane to elemental is messed up, as represented by the PC crowd in Allanaki taverns lately.

It just seems with so many gemmed about, they would likely have a ton of interaction if they all headed to the plaza there or something.

[Anonymous]

If gemmers are feared, do they fear eachother?

I don't think you can generalize a population as diverse as magickers since they don't share a common background or mindset like elves.

I imagine it depends on the magicker, their personality, their feelings about the other magicker and the other magicker's element of choice.

[elvenchipmunk]

I don't know what the current ratio is of gemmers vs. mundane roles, but I don't really care. I can leave that to the imms to know, and decide what is to be done about it. As for magickers hanging out in taverns, I think that even if you're a gemmer, I'm sure you still like to interact with other PC's. As Tlaloc said, I'd much rather see gemmers in a tavern, then have them holed up practicing magick 24/7. And if this does happen, let the immortals decide what is to be done.

[JohnGalt]

The population almost always fluctuates.  Sometimes you see nothing but magickers (or so you think) and sometimes there are hardly any lurking around causing mischief.  I'll say this much though, the mortality rate on magickers is pretty high, so no matter how many you see now its a good chance they won't be around in a month.

[SpyGuy]

Play it off IC, but I've felt your pain man.  If you have a tavern you feel is "yours" and your character doesn't really like gemmers by all means try to kick them out.  It may not work but if you give them a problem every time they come in they might get the message.  That also creates interaction.  And when your character isn't in an environment where he feels he can take action you might just have to suck it up and sulk in a corner.

PC Gemmed population varies over time, only thing you can really do is roll with it IC.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine a scenario where giving a magicker a hard time would seem like a good idea to your average citizen.

[Jacques]

I'm not sure I agree that the gemmers outnumber those without, but then again I don't play every hour of every day. There are certain portions of the day when I tend to see more people with gems in the taverns, while other times I can go for several IC days without ever seeing even one. I suspect it's a result of fluctuating player levels and just plain varying login times. But that's just my take on it.

[Cuusardo]

Do something about it IC.  There are TONS of things you can do.  You aren't as helpless as you may think you are.  All it takes is some creative thinking.

[Cale_Knight]

As I've said in other threads, the massive amounts of gemmed players in 'nak, especially hanging around in the bars, colored my perception as a newbie. I still have trouble "fearing" magick in Armageddon as much as I should, because my first exposure to it was to a bunch of people who sat around in the taverns thick as flies and were completely normal people.

Playing different characters, and seeing what magickers can be like outside of cities is helping, but I still think back to those three magickers sitting at the bar and talking about what color silk was in style that month...

[EvilRoeSlade]

It's hard to play a gemmed magicker.  Give them a break already.

[Dracul]

Give them...an OOC break. Such as this post. Yes...well hey. You did agree to the sentiment I'm suggesting in your original post.

Bah, it can't be fun to be a magicker and go solo just because. But give them a real hard time ICly. If your char is smart enough not to fekk with the gemmers directly. Do it indirectly. 'creatively'.

[WarriorPoet]

I think the mystery and general paranoia surrounding magick is kind of lost when there are as many magickers, gemmed and non, as there are in-game at the moment. I remember being -terrified- of the few magickers I saw as a newb. They're as common as elves, nowadays and what's worse, they're not only tolerated by large portions of the characters I see, but accepted and at time befriended. Yuck. As I heard it put in-game: I can't kick sand without it hitting one.

That said, I don't really mind seeing gemmers in the taverns. They're people, just like everyone else. I'm sure they crave booze and company, the latter probably moreso than your average Amos. That's IC, at that. The OOC restrictions on magickers are irritating and numerous, so give them a break. They're players as well, and they want to RP, not just sit around moping solo about how lonely and cursed they are.

If you don't like their presence, do something about it. It is -fun- when a few of you get nervous about the gemmer that walked in. While a lynch-mob mentality is always amusing, it's not the only way to get your point across that they're not welcome. Throw something while hidden in the crowd. Yell obscenities. Nudge your partner and whisper to him about the demon that just walked in. Keep it up until everyone in the bar is uncomfortably staring at that gemmer.

-WP

[Larrath]

Teach by example.
Why can't your PC be one of the normal people that actually do stare at magickers or move to sit somewhere else or do some superstitious ritual whenever they see one?

[Cenghiz]

Yes, do something. As someone whose half of characters are gemmers, I can say I wouldn't be bothered by irritated tavern patrons, rather I would love to have some additional plots to work on with my gemmers when there's nothing else to do.
Just one thing... If you say "You fekking witch!" and spit on a gemmer who's the loyal servant of <insert high ranking person here>, it's not really really fun for both parties. The other player gets forced to have you whipped, tortured or even worse ICly. And then nothing happens. The gemmer keeps on sitting at the tavern grinning wryly.
And to confess, I hate such not so clever approaches of disturbing gemmers, which usually does nothing good, except some temporary nuisance. No plot starts just because average joe says foul words and in exchange he gets whipped.
There are 999 other ways to disturb a gemmer real badly and cleverer solution you find, more pleased everyone will be, including the gemmer's player even if the gemmer dies.

[Forest Junkie]

I can say that playing a gemmed magicker is definitely more of a challenge than a lone wolf.

As for telling me to go somewhere else when I'm playing a gemmed magicker; why don't you come make me? Not to be a smartass, but I'd really like to see more interaction. The most I have ever gotten from patrons was their standing up and leaving the tavern immediately after my pc having sat down.

Woe is me.

[Rindan]

Gemmers need a place to socialize.  Expecting them to avoid the taverns is insane from an OOC perspective.  Few roles have bored me to more tears then my gemmed magikers, especially if my playing times meant that I couldn't be active in a clan.  Everything about the life of a gemmed is slow.  Worse still, you can only really interact with a tiny fraction of the player base.  When it is good, being a gemmed is good.  When it is bad, well, you will remember that Red Storm East character you had fondly.

Personally, I always felt that the biggest problem with gemmed was that they never had a good place to do shady things and actually RP with other gemmed.  I personally always viewed gemmed as very shady folks.  You have an entire quarter of the city devoted to them, but how many of the people in that quarter are doing 'honest' jobs?  The only honest jobs a gemmed can really do is noble house work, and I can say with pretty firm certainty that not everyone in the elementalist quarters is under the wing of a noble house.  So what exactly do those other gemmed do?

I always imagined a hole in the wall tavern on the edge of the 'rinth in the elementalist quarters.  Think of a very dark and smoky bar in some basement off in an alleyway.  A solid half of the patrons are gemmed.  The rest of the patrons?  Shady bastards, every single one of them.  No one would be throwing fire balls across the room, but no one would raise an eyebrow if a Krathi lit a pipe without putting too much effort into it.  No one would mention that the area around that Drovian in the corner seemed a little darker then the rest of the tavern.  Eye brows wouldn't be raised if table rattled a little when a Rukkian got angry.  No big magikal displays, but perhaps a few small suggestive and deniable tricks might be played.

The tavern would sit on the edge of lawlessness and be THE place to conduct your nefarious dealings.  Talk about the spice you want to unload in hushed tones, ask around for a Drovian to help you with an up coming burglary, maybe the occasional brave (or stupid) mercenary will come in looking for a Krathi to bring along on an expedition the demands a little extra fire power.  It would be a place where the law is very thin.  Granted, you wouldn't want to announce the massive spice deal you have going, then hit up the bards barrel and then expect no one to rat on you for a few 'sid, but maybe it is a place where your tongue could be a little looser and a criminal could risk dropping by.

The magik of this place is that you would give a home to two groups of people that are very much homeless AND bolster interaction in a part of the game that is lethargic at best.

The first group that would love this little bar is those looking to conduct shifty dealings in Allanak.  For those people your options are jail or nothing.  You can sit in the Barrel or the Gaj, but you will be promptly arrested as Lord Inbreed and the dozen militiamen over hear your conversation with their jacked up listen skills.  You might as well stand outside the Traders Inn and conduct your business using the shout command, because any conversation you have one of those taverns might as well be broadcast on an Allanaki chat line.  That, or you can go into the 'rinth.  The 'rinth is fine... so long as you are willing to dress the part and have roughly infinite patience to not only wait to see another PC, but the PC you need.  Waiting in the 'rinth for the shady people you need is like waiting in the salt flats for the rain to come to you.  Allanak needs more shady dealing that doesn't have a damn thing to do with noble houses or the templerate, and this would be a perfect place to conduct such dealings.

Second, the poor gemmed need a place to go to interact in a meaningful way.  Gemmed must be gluttons for abuse or hermits as things stand now, either way,  you are not going to do much meaningful interacting with other gemmed.  I recall when I was a gemmed I used to simply wander around the temples and occasionally run into a fellow gemmed.  When I felt like a real glutton for punishment, I would go hit up the barrel and practice not talking to anyone and solo emoting to a crowd.  

Was it terribly IC?  Probably not, but IC for me would have been to just go to a place where gemmed conjugate outside earshot of your average commoner and shooting the shit.  You can only shoot the shit with VNPCs so long.  Build a place for gemmed to conjugate and maybe even toy with their presence.  As it stands now, most magikers blatantly break any sort of IC sanity their character has and go chill with people that won't talk to them in places where they can't talk about what they do.  It isn't IC, it is the poor guy behind the character getting sick of the inside of his temple.  Gemmed desperately need a place to casually interact where they can speak freely.  IC places like this already exist.  It is called the elementalist quarters.  This is a purely OOC problem.  Gemmed are NOT lonely people.  Their players are.  Gemmed could actually be able to interact with each other and learn from each other's RP.  Few things bothered me more when I first started playing a gemmed then the fact that I went hundreds of hours without really ever seeing anyone else play a gemmed in any sort of depth.  

It would also make an obvious place for others to go interact with them.  Gem might actually see some business start to role around and plots spring up if suddenly there was a discrete place to have dealings with them.  Your average commoner might actually look up when he sees a gemmed in the Barrel and wonder what in the hell that grubby little magiker is up to.

Personally, I think all parties involved would be happier.  The normal taverns wouldn't notice if a couple gemmed showed up much less often.   As for the 'rinth tavern, well, it is hard to go below zero in terms of population, and it isn't like your average 'rinther is going to be inclined to hang out with magikers anyways.  The only people that wouldn't like this bar would be the magikers' pants.  Magikers would likely piss themselves if suddenly presented with so much potential for interaction.

And before anyone says "Do it IC!"  I already tried a couple years back.  It was shot down for OOC reasons at the time, though things might have changed since then.

[Forest Junkie]

Dude I thought you died from a VD or something.

*cough*

Great idea man, maybe in the future we can get something like that in game. I know I'd love it.

[mansa]

I always thought there should be a IC tavern for the magickers.  It should be a place for the templarment to own and for them to enter and pick a few out of the crowd to use for their own fulfillment.  There's a lot of benefit for it, that I think outweighs the 'seperation of the playerbase' that seems to be the biggest concern for it.

[jhunter]

Gemmers need a place to socialize. Expecting them to avoid the taverns is insane from an OOC perspective. Few roles have bored me to more tears then my gemmed magikers, especially if my playing times meant that I couldn't be active in a clan. Everything about the life of a gemmed is slow. Worse still, you can only really interact with a tiny fraction of the player base. When it is good, being a gemmed is good. When it is bad, well, you will remember that Red Storm East character you had fondly.

You hit my experience with gemmed on the nose. I agree that southern mages need a tavern for themselves. I like your ideas concerning that as well...I like them alot.


*humps Rindan's leg*

[Gaare]

Sorry for me jump into thread I do not know almost nothing, but I remember there is a place in elementalist Quarter's northwest where you can sit and enjoy weird shows of a couple of magickers? Yeah, that's not a tavern but.. well..

[proxie]

Sorry for me jump into thread I do not know almost nothing, but I remember there is a place in elementalist Quarter's northwest where you can sit and enjoy weird shows of a couple of magickers? Yeah, that's not a tavern but.. well..

So... maybe a bar could start to exist there slowly... first with a tent, then as more gemmers put virtual and IC effort into it, it could evolve into something else?

Afterall, tables inside a shelter against the winds doth a tavern make.
Maybe a Viv could toss a barrel in and some other mages could donate some of their respective goodies.

And if nobody ever goes to a tent in the Gemmer quarter, then there's probably not a lot of cause for a real tavern.

Just an idea. Or a continuation of someone else's idea.

Proxie

[Sholdyn]

I REALLY like the tent idea. It wouldn't take too much work to start up and as you said, it would be a great gauge as to how well the tavern idea would work. All you'd need in there is two or three crappy tables, a bench for one NPC "bartender" who only sells one type of drink and certain types of food. I vote yes.

[wizturbo]

Gemmers need a place to socialize. Expecting them to avoid the taverns is insane from an OOC perspective. Few roles have bored me to more tears then my gemmed magikers, especially if my playing times meant that I couldn't be active in a clan. Everything about the life of a gemmed is slow. Worse still, you can only really interact with a tiny fraction of the player base. When it is good, being a gemmed is good. When it is bad, well, you will remember that Red Storm East character you had fondly.

You hit my experience with gemmed on the nose. I agree that southern mages need a tavern for themselves. I like your ideas concerning that as well...I like them alot.


*humps Rindan's leg*

You guys we don't need a tavern.  Just use places that you already have.  There is an entire gemmed bazaar with tables, food, shade and many, many gemmed NPC's around that you can blend in with.  I've used that place for a lot of my gemmed interactions, it just takes a few more people going there regularly to hang out and it'll become a 'spot' for gemmed to gather.

There are IC reasons that a gemmed tavern doesn't exist.  There are IC reasons that there isn't many things regarding gemmed that some people might OOCly enjoy.

The reason people keep going to the 'normal guy' taverns is because they want to be involved in city affairs, but I'd prefer the gemmed act isolated as they are somewhat intended to be.  That's just my opinion though.

[Rindan]

You guys we don't need a tavern.  Just use places that you already have.  There is an entire gemmed bazaar with tables, food, shade and many, many gemmed NPC's around that you can blend in with.  I've used that place for a lot of my gemmed interactions, it just takes a few more people going there regularly to hang out and it'll become a 'spot' for gemmed to gather.

It is true that there is the square.  The square has a few obvious draw backs.  The most obvious ones being that it is not a tavern, it is outside, and it gets dark.  Sitting in the square during a raging stand storm at night doesn't seem terribly IC to me.  A tavern works because you can be there any time of day in any sort of weather condition, and there are plenty of tables to sit down at.  The IC and the OOC beifits of a tavern make the square impractical.

There are IC reasons that a gemmed tavern doesn't exist.  There are IC reasons that there isn't many things regarding gemmed that some people might OOCly enjoy.

There might very well be IC reasons, but like I said, I was told a few years back that the reason was OOC.  Barring any super secret plots, I personally don't see an IC problem.  Gemmed are already herded into a single quarter.  They can already easily communicate and plan with each other.  The justification can't be that the templerate wants to keep gemmed from communicating and conjugating – it is already ICly done.  The only reason why it doesn't happen right now is for purely OOC reasons.  It is really hard for gemmed to casually meet gemmed on a completely OOC level.  ICly, if you want to talk to a fellow gemmed, just talk to the guy in the temple next to you, or anyone in the square.  The problem is purely OOC.

The reason people keep going to the 'normal guy' taverns is because they want to be involved in city affairs...

I completely disagree.  Most gemmed do not go to taverns to have anything to do with city affairs.  Hell, I can say with 100% certainty that my gemmed never went to the tavern to be involved with city affairs.  They go because they are OOCly bored to tears of the inside of their temple and want to at least SEE interaction, even if they can barely interact back.  True, some go because they have business, and this is of course fine.  Most though, they just want to see people from purely OOC reasons.  The IC avenues they have to see fellow gemmed are all OOCly boring.  As someone who has sat in the elementalist square for hours, I can say that I am sure my character was having a good time, but I certainly wasn't.  I solo emote all day in a temple, then go solo emote interaction.  It isn't terrible conducive to character development or improving one's RP style.

...but I'd prefer the gemmed act isolated as they are somewhat intended to be.

Gemmed are isolated, but not from each other.  They live with each other.  They are supposed to have a hard time interacting outside of the magiker quarters.  Inside of those quarters though, there isn't a reason in the world why they shouldn't have same sorts of interactions that everyone else has.  Being a gemmed doesn't make you're a hermit.  If you were really social before you got a gem slapped on, you will be social after you have a gem.  The only difference is that you have to be social with different people.  There are plenty of people ICly to talk to.  Being gemmed makes you an OOC hermit, not an IC hermit.  All I propose is that the OOC isolation of the gemmed be taken away.  Just give them a tavern and throw it on the boundary of the quarters such that other unsavory people with no place to go have a place too.  Kill two birds with one stone; dramatically improve the RP of your gemmed by giving them people to RP, and create a breeding ground for plots and intrigue.  What is there to lose?  Two less gemmed in the tavern RPing quietly sitting?

[Cenghiz]

Just one thing to notice.. There's actually one thing that may force a gemmer keep away from others... fear... Even though you do wicked stuff with shaking a hand and mumbling incomprehensible words, the other gemmers can, too.. You don't know what they can and you don't know what they will.
Though a gemmer would still be more open-minded, I don't like gemmers becoming friends in seconds right after seeing another with a gem.
Just my thoughts.

[Sholdyn]

Ok, but soldiers tend to hang with other soldiers, merchants with other merchants, hunters with other hunters.... etc.  It's about having something in common that you can talk about and share experiences over. No gemmed becomes insta-friends with other gemmed, but it's a good icebreaker.

[Larrath]

I'd just like to say that I agree with Cenghiz - the Elementalist's Quarter isn't a nice little village.  It is, in spite of looking nicer than many places in the city, still the pit where nearly all the gemmers live.
And not all gemmers are very nice or stable or sane people.  Some magickers can have trouble keeping their temper or power in check, and this makes them just dangerous to be around.

I'm not saying that gemmers shouldn't be friends with other gemmers, but it should take at least a while so that both gemmers can decide the other one isn't out to sacrifice their still-beating heart for some ritual.

After all, just because the superstitions aren't right about you doesn't mean they're not about other magickers.

[Rindan]

And not all gemmers are very nice or stable or sane people.  Some magickers can have trouble keeping their temper or power in check, and this makes them just dangerous to be around.

I'm not saying that gemmers shouldn't be friends with other gemmers, but it should take at least a while so that both gemmers can decide the other one isn't out to sacrifice their still-beating heart for some ritual.

After all, just because the superstitions aren't right about you doesn't mean they're not about other magickers.

I had a mercenary once.  He was a ruthless ass hole of a human.  He hurt people and picked fights simply because he liked hurting people.  He merrily sold people out without a second thought.  All of his friends?  They were all roughly as much of ruthless ass holes as he was.  Why would he makes friends with people he knows are like him?  Well, if for no other reason then that they understand him.  He never fully trusted them, but he would pick a few drunken mercenaries to sit down at the tavern with over a House aid or merchant, if for no other reason that he was too offensive for those people to tolerate.

Gemmed are sort of in the same boat.  Gemmed are offensive.  No one wants to be around them.  Now, fellow gemmed might not be terrible trusting of each other, but at least they are in the same boat.

Finally, not all gemmed are not crazy.  Gemmed are people.  They are normal people who one day had the rather traumatic experience of suddenly being social outcasts.  This might make them more prone to going nuts, but I imagine the vast majority of gemmed are just normal people who can also throw fireballs.  I imagine most gemmed have their family and friends suddenly shun them and they get locked into a ghetto.  Most people in such a situation would seek out people who have had a similar experience.

Whatever the case, if gemmed have the choice, they are going to prefer to associate with other gemmed in general.  They are going to pick other gemmed over your average commoner, because your average commoner would slit their throat if they ever thought they had the chance.  If another gemmed wants to punch your number, it is unlikely that is just out of paranoid hate.  Better to hang out with people that are far more likely to be completely indifferent of you then to sit in a tavern surrounded by people that would kill you without a second thought if they thought they could get away with it.

[Xygax]

Rindan's description of mercenary/mercenary and magicker/magicker "friendships" should be the norm for ALL relationships on Zalanthas.  You might hang out together, you might even have sex with one another, you might even call one another friends, but you almost never truly, truly trust each other.

And yes, the attraction is in finding people at least somewhat like yourself, either with respect to social status, or lifestyle, or magickal nature.

-- X

[JohnGalt]

Rindan's description of mercenary/mercenary and magicker/magicker "friendships" should be the norm for ALL relationships on Zalanthas.  You might hang out together, you might even have sex with one another, you might even call one another friends, but you almost never truly, truly trust each other.

And yes, the attraction is in finding people at least somewhat like yourself, either with respect to social status, or lifestyle, or magickal nature.

-- X

I agree with you here X, but I do believe exceptions should exist.  Not exceptions that occur overnight, or over a year, but eventually it should be possible to trust another living soul in Zalanthas.  I just wish people would realize this is such a rare occurance, that finding a steel dagger in the sand is a worthy analogy and roleplay accordingly.

[joyofdiscord]

You might hang out together, you might even have sex with one another, you might even call one another friends, but you almost never truly, truly trust each other.

I'll just briefly point out the obvious exceptions: elven tribemates, and a trusted companion of an elf (after a LONG, LONG time, and MANY tests).

[Larrath]

I doubt that there are many Zalanthans, even the nobles and the templars, that truly live their whole lives without trusting another living soul, even if it's just their favorite concubine or a gardener that they befriended.  And of course, trusting doesn't mean you have to tell them your secrets.
Finding trust in someone else isn't the unusual thing in Zalanthas - finding someone who actually deserves this trust is.

And now to Rindan's post.  Gemmed magickers are people, and a good portion of them is sane, stable and for the most-part normal.  There are still the exceptions - the people who think they need to sacrifice people, or just the demented killers, or whoever.  The problem is that a killer magicker attacking in an alley is a lot more dangerous than a mundane killer attacking in an alley.

The point I truly disagree with, though, is that the average gemmer would be more comfortable (or prefer to be) with another average gemmer instead of an average citizen, assuming that said citizen was capable of simply conversing with them and not blaming them for having a leak in their waterskin or their daughter getting raped.
In a nutshell, I think this is just similar to how a half-elf might decide he wants to hang out with humans or with elves.  Some gemmers would like to 'pass' as mundane people while others would try to group more with the other magickers.

Another confused post, but I'm tired.  Meh.

[Xygax]

A gemmed magicker doesn't have even the options of a half-elf with respect to his social circles.  The gem is the first thing people see when they look at you and the last thing people think of when they sidle away from you warily.  A gemmed magicker befriending a non-magickal citizen (or vice versa) would be rather rare...  and as I think about it, if I were a non-gemmed magicker in Allanak, gemmed magickers would be the last people I'd hang out with ("Hey, they guy hangs out with magickers a lot...  I wonder....?")

-- X

[EvilRoeSlade]

I'll just briefly point out the obvious exceptions: elven tribemates, and a trusted companion of an elf (after a LONG, LONG time, and MANY tests).

If your elven tribemate decides that stepping over your corpse and claiming the position that you once held is the best way to help the tribe, then they'd do it without blinking.  After all, if you aren't strong enough to remain in your place, then the tribe is better off without you anyway.

Elves are no exception at all.

Now, as for magickers, as Xygax pointed out, no one on Zalanthas is really safe trusting each other.  Every association is a risk, calculated or uncalculated.  Magickers are no more remarkable than any other, in that they might choose to take the risk of associating with a magicker despite the dangers of it.

I personally would like to see more commoners choose to take that risk as well.  Just because you fear something (or are expected to fear it) doesn't mean you can't relate with it in some way.

After all, a commoner is supposed to fear a templar, but oddly enough I see people joining the militia anyway.  Nobody rails on the GDB about how poorly played militia members are, being so twinkish that they would dare to allow their characters to gain personally from something that they are afraid of.

Magickers are not different from templars in that respect.  Just because you're afraid of a magicker, doesn't mean you can't allow your mind to wander to ways that a magicker might be able to help you.

Therefore I think that a tavern like the one Rindan describes would be a godsend for the game, giving magicker and commoner alike a valid opportunity to interact with magickers.

As for any comparisons regarding half-elves, let me state that magickers are nothing like half-elves (unless they are half-elves).  Unlike a half-elf, a magicker is perfectly capable of understanding that she will never be a normal member of society.

[Maybe42or54]

Besides, if you "befriend" a magicker, then they may be out to get you, or they may "Defend" you, or just "ignore" you when they go on a killing spree.

[joyofdiscord]

I'll just briefly point out the obvious exceptions: elven tribemates, and a trusted companion of an elf (after a LONG, LONG time, and MANY tests).

If your elven tribemate decides that stepping over your corpse and claiming the position that you once held is the best way to help the tribe, then they'd do it without blinking.  After all, if you aren't strong enough to remain in your place, then the tribe is better off without you anyway.

Elves are no exception at all.

HIJACK:

Elves are very, very different from humans, and you're basically claiming that they can behave exactly like humans, just twisting that behaviour into the terminology of elven tribalism.  NO, an elf is NOT going to hack down a tribemate just because he thinks he's stronger and could do better (for the sake of the tribe of course :roll: ).  No, just NO.

To be concise, just read elven racial roleplay.  Some choice bits:

Elves also naturally trust their tribemates...To act in a harmful way against a tribemate is an unthinkable act in an elven tribe...if one elf is seen to be acting in a way that harms the tribe as a whole, to be harmful to that individual (to protect the tribe) is absolutely warranted

Note that the last snippet in the above does not mean "Well, me as a sneaky elf that will step on anyone including my own tribemates, uhmm.. to protect my tribe... I think that my tribemate is a loser and I will take him out to replace him." An elf can be in trouble within his own tribe when the tribe as a whole sees him as harmful.  The kind of elf that would end up getting nailed by his own tribe would be the one whose mindset I illustrate above, the one who thinks he knows everything that is best for the tribe and will cause harm within the tribe in order to take control.  That kind of elf has already broken his ties with the tribe, internally at least.

Elves are NOT humans.  Elf tribes are NOT merchant houses or the Guild.    Elves are NOT social Darwinists.

[Larrath]

Half-elves were a bad choice of term on my part.

What I meant to say was that a magicker can be very blatant about being a magicker or he can try to pretend he's really just harmless or even powerless.
And also, a gemmer can choose to try and associate with gemmers and leave the regular people alone or he can do the opposite - after all, who wants to hang out with magickers all day long?
A gemmed magicker might try to convince people that he's just not that bad, or even offer incentives for people to be with him, be it information, gifts or threats.

I also agree that people being too friendly with magickers, or just friendly too quickly, should be looked at as suspicious.

About elves, it's not for one elf to decide that he's better than the other elf and murder him in order to take his position 'for the better of the tribe'.
First of all, the ones who'd decide that would usually be the tribe elders, so it would all be a lot more orderly - the last thing a tribe needs is to split into warring factions.  Secondly, an elven tribe will practically never kill one of its own members unless it was crucial for the tribe that the said member was dead.
The vast, vast vast majority of elves who failed at their job at doing X and were moved to do Y instead probably won't even be that bitter, because they're all dedicated to something bigger than themselves - the tribe.
A tribal human might deceive his entire tribe in order to get ahead, maybe, but for an elf that would be unthinkable.

Back to gemmers now - some magickers would rather be dead instead of talk to other magickers, while others see mundane people as inferior creatures unworthy of their attention.  I think that the norm is somewhere in the middle, with the average gemmer liking other magickers about as much as ordinary people.

[EvilRoeSlade]

That's all well and good, but I fail to see why it means there shouldn't be a tavern for magickers.

[Larrath]

That's all well and good, but I fail to see why it means there shouldn't be a tavern for magickers.

Come to think of it, a nice gritty, halfway-to-'rinth tavern in the Elementalist Quarter -could- be nice.  Put that in and take the Barrel out and that would be nice.
However, a potential problem is that some people might see that tavern and see magick as a more normal force.  The sense that I get is that there are too many people that would blink at the face of an Elkran casting right in front of their face.
I don't know how good cheap magick mushrooms and free pure water at pretty much limitless amounts would go to the game.

EDIT: Maybe just blow up the Barrel then.

[joyofdiscord]

I really like the idea of a shady/magicker crossover tavern.  It wouldn't replace the Barrel though.  The Barrel hosts a very specific and important crossover clientele in its own way.  It's not so scummy that a noble or merchant family member can't be comfortable there, and it's not so hoity-toity that your average commoner can't hang out, too.  That's important for plots and networking.  Where else will they go?  It's the Gaj or Traders, the two extremes that the Barrel balances.

Also, I bristle somewhat at the repeated assumption in this thread that rinthers don't have anyone to hang out with, and rinth taverns are dead.  They definitely aren't (or at least, they haven't been during my time playing rinthers).  The one downside, in my opinion, in this gemmer/shady sanctuary would be potentially drawing away from the REAL shady, rinth tavern action, in the same sort of way the Barrel seems to draw away from the Gaj, in my experience.

[mansa]

i'd love to see a force field that prevents people without wearing a gem from entering the tavern from the front.  ;)

[Ktavialt]

Rindan's description of mercenary/mercenary and magicker/magicker "friendships" should be the norm for ALL relationships on Zalanthas.  You might hang out together, you might even have sex with one another, you might even call one another friends, but you almost never truly, truly trust each other.

And yes, the attraction is in finding people at least somewhat like yourself, either with respect to social status, or lifestyle, or magickal nature.

-- X

Did I misread this or are you saying that ALL relationships of every type,
not just mercenary/mercenary, magicker/magicker relationships should be
like this? I mean, that's moving now from brutal, harsh Zalanthas to plain
Paranoia-land. I've had my share (quite a few) of characters who died
because they trusted someone they shouldn't have, however with those
characters that did do that I was meddling in things that were important
and I should have known better. It wasn't normal, everyday Zalanthan
life.

But directly the topic of magickers and trust, I love the idea of magickers
being mysterious and feared, even at least partially by other magickers.
However, I have met more friendly magickers than I have met friendly
non-magickers, just so damned often, and I don't think I'm getting fooled
by them and they're faking it either. Actually, come to think of it the ones
that I trusted and died for it as I mentioned above were all non-magickers.
I simply don't think the environment is exactly how the immortal staff of
Armageddon intends for it to be. I think that while there are definitely folks
who do an excellent job of playing how they are supposed to play, rather
than playing the exception (ie. tuluki that doesn't hate magickers), the
average joe will do otherwise. Some may hang around magickers because
they wanna see some action/something different, some may hang around
magickers because they have nifty tricks that can help them. People are
going to do what is reasonable OOCly sometime, even though the game
documentation say they should be acting in a different manner.

All the crap I've written above is just background as to why I'm throwing
out a couple of the following ideas as ways that the correct environment
can be procured on Zalanthas in relation to magickers:
1) Staff should from time to time sponsor roles for a cruel and/or crazy
magickers.
2) A past idea I posted regarding "silent casting" mostly of curse-type
spells, or otherwise making it so a magicker could actually curse someone
with the victim not knowing who cast it on him, should go in effect. I recall
the imm staff saying they were considering that sort of thing. A curse like
spell shouldn't show on your effects list, and may have effects like making
walking more difficult, making natural creatures/animals want to attack
you or your kank not want to be ridden by you, and so forth. There also
should be some uncertainty as to whether you're cursed or not - was it
bad luck or a magicker bastard?
3) Because of #2, magickers should be not allowed in certain places. I can
see someone going to the Barrel rather than the Gaj because "the Gaj lets
them types walk around there, don't wanna get all hocus pocus'd on".
4) The nature of magick itself should be adverse to non-magickers of their
kind's way of life. Maybe not in an extreme way, but enough to be a pain
in the ass. As example, Mr. Mage gets a dream where he's standing in the
middle of a sandstorm, arms spread open and being empowered. He then
creates a massive sandstorm all throughout Vrun Driath, creating an
environment that suits him, but pisses everyone else off, including other
magickers of different elements. (PS: I don't know if any magickers can
influence large-scale sandstorms, this is just a hypothetical example)

I'm not saying none of the above has ever been done, but I can say it
hasn't been done sufficiently enough to provide actual (not game doc)
justification for hating magickers. Things like the above may make the
average joe play the exception rather than the rule.

My two cents,
Ktavialt

[Rindan]

And now to Rindan's post.  Gemmed magickers are people, and a good portion of them is sane, stable and for the most-part normal.  There are still the exceptions - the people who think they need to sacrifice people, or just the demented killers, or whoever.  The problem is that a killer magicker attacking in an alley is a lot more dangerous than a mundane killer attacking in an alley.

I completely disagree.  For a gemmed, walking through the commoner quarters is a dozen times more risky then strolling through the elementalist quarters.  When you walk through the commoner quarters, you KNOW almost every single person that sees you would kill you without a second thought if they could.  Your average commoner is stupid, ignorant, and superstitious.  If the templerate were to disappear tomorrow, the elementalist would be fighting for their lives the very next day.  Hell, I imagine every single gemmed that makes his way through the crush in the commoner quarters is constantly paranoid of a knifing to the gut.  If a commoner slides a knife six inches into your gut, what are you going to do?  Throw a fireball at him and provoke the templerate to finish the job?

When a gemmed is walking through the gemmed quarters, it is very safe to say that the majority of the gemmed that he passes really don't give a shit if that gemmed lives or dies.  Are there crazy gemmed who might want you dead?  Maybe, but even if there is another gemmed randomly killing other gemmed, you are just one of many such targets, unlike in the commoner quarters where you are one target surrounded by literally countless people hostile to you.

The point I truly disagree with, though, is that the average gemmer would be more comfortable (or prefer to be) with another average gemmer instead of an average citizen, assuming that said citizen was capable of simply conversing with them and not blaming them for having a leak in their waterskin or their daughter getting raped[/b].
In a nutshell, I think this is just similar to how a half-elf might decide he wants to hang out with humans or with elves.  Some gemmers would like to 'pass' as mundane people while others would try to group more with the other magickers.

The simple fact of the matter is that your average commoner has nothing to say to a gemmed.  Period.  If a commoner is talking to a gemmed, it is a safe bet that 99% of the time, that commoner wants something.  If you have a tavern full of people, why in the hell would a commoner single out a random gemmed to talk to?  Might a gem prefer commoners to other gemmed if the commoner could be nice an accepting?  Maybe.  Are commoners going to be nice an accepting?  Hell no.  

As for the gemmed, if you are so paranoid for your life that you avoid other gemmed, why on earth would you walk through throngs of hostile people (most of which are armed) to sit in a place where everyone loathes your existence and couldn't even begin to understand you or the hardship you have suffered?  The risk of a random gemmed sacrificing you or what not is miniscule, and another gemmed is probably the best equipped to fight back.  On the other hand, the risk of being gutted in a tavern because if that little black stone around your neck is not so miniscule.

Gemmed are people.  The ability to throw fire balls does not suddenly make devoid of the desire to get drunk, get laid, and have friends.  The commoner quarters offers gemmed absolutely nothing in terms of living their lives.  If a commoner wants friends and lovers, the elementalist quarters are the only way to go.  Whatever fears your average gemmed has about his fellow gemmed, they are easily ignored due to the simple human desire to have human relationships.

[Anonymous]

For a gemmed, walking through the commoner quarters is a dozen times more risky then strolling through the elementalist quarters.

To me a magicker walking through the commoner quarters should feel as much fear as a lion trotting through a pack of sickly gazelle.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, though.  Think about how much more advanced we as a people were back during the Salem witch trials which was only a few hundred years ago or so.  And yet despite having so much more knowledge about the world around them than the average Zalanthan they had some bizarrely superstitious notions about what you had to do to kill a witch.

I really wish there was a lot less of this 'magickers bleed like everyone else' mindset and a lot more wild and unfounded speculation.

[Twilight]

Its both mindsets at work really, which is why it works.

A gemmed walking through the commoner quarters is walking through hostile territory.  Pretty much everyone there would like to gut the damn mage.  However, due to superstitions and yes, actual fact, of what a mage can do, only the particularly crazy would attempt something like that.  Of course, every once in awhile a mob forms, for whatever reason, and a magicker looses their life.  Not common probably, but not exceptionally uncommon.  So the magicker walking around should have quite a bit of fear.

A commoner watching that gemmed walking around is scared to death.  After all, magickers can cause widespread devestation, and its only really the templars who keep them on the lease.  You'd love to stick the damn magicker.  Only once in awhile, bad things happen around magickers, and lots of people die.  Maybe while mobbing a magicker, believe it or not.  So your commoner is scared, and should be.

Fear on both sides keeps the equilibrium.  Not some "in some theoretical way this could happen" way but in a very real "once in awhile, really bad shit goes down and people die" way.  And thats the perception on both sides.  And once in awhile, things go down wrong, and people die, on either side.  And that goes to show that the perception is indeed a correct one, and that you should be scared.  Magicker or mundane.

At least, thats my take on it.

[jstorrie]

I'd love to see bouncers saying 'Your kind ain't welcome here.'

[Bebop]

I haven't read most of the posts on this thread but here is my opinion:

Gemmers are supposed to be feared like Satan by most commoners as well as hated by Northies.  That's part of the roleplay, part of the challenge that comes along with getting uber superhuman powers.  I've noticed it too, alot of gemmers in the taverns which to me just isn't normal, 'gickers have become widely excepted it seems by PC's in Nak.  I guess maybe you could acredit it to Oashe's involvement and protection of the gemmers that serve them but even so, I would think that wouldn't suggest that people aren't still terrified of people that can call down the elements to destroy them, yeah?

[waroth]

I don't think they should be feared like Satan.  Not when a quarter of the city is set aside for them to live in, and you see them everyday as a commoner.  I would think them feared more like  a ex-con.  They could be nice and friendly, but you never know if they'll snap and kill you.  So you shun them when you can, and it's never good to try and piss one off.  Just my brief opinion.

[joyofdiscord]

I don't think they should be feared like Satan.  Not when a quarter of the city is set aside for them to live in, and you see them everyday as a commoner.

They have their own quarter, and that's exactly why you really shouldn't see them everyday as a commoner.  Xygax has expressed a desire (possibly even in this thread, though I'm not going to look for it) to see the magickers more segregated, so you wouldn't see them except in unusual circumstances.  I don't think the PC population really reflects the VNPC population (even the exceptional VNPCs who are just like PCs except virtual) in this regard.

[Xygax]

"Feared like Satan" isn't a good way of expressing the distrust, growing into fear, growing into hatred that most commoners do have for magickers.  However, yes, I believe I have expressed a desire to see magickers more segregated, and I especially think that making the Elementalist's Quarter (which isn't, to be perfectly clear, 1/4 of the city...  it is a "quarter" in the "You live here, nowhere else" sense) more OOCly enjoyable and less ICly accessible will go a long way toward that end.  We're not there yet, and it will take time, but we'll get there.

In general, I find that my views largely agree with Rindan's, but I am not spearheading or overseeing any effort related to this issue.  Other staff will have to comment on things more relevant to them.

In the meantime, this discussion is a good one, and what you should generally be getting from it is that, in general, it isn't the natural, easy thing for random commoners and random magickers to befriend one another.  As someone else on this thread suggested, usually if a non-magicker is making nice with a gemmer, there is an ulterior motive involved.  Obviously, if someone is being nice to you, you should ICly ride it for all it's worth (unless you're an elf, elves don't ride :wink:), but this notion that you might be getting used should absolutely be considered a potential aspect of your roleplay.  As the non-magicker in the situation, you should be concerned that you might be getting hexed if things don't work out just so for the gemmer in question.  Nobody wants to be on the other end of the Vivaduan "shrinkage" curse.

-- X

[Anonymous]

You are wrong 'cause the population doesn't just revolve around PC's yeah maybe lots of PC's are magickers, but how many npc's vnpc's are magickers? not many I can think of, and theres about ten thousand times more Vnpcs than actual players, and not any of them are magickers.

Besides that I go for days with out seeing magickers, and there is more mundane PC's than there is Magickers or Karma required guilds.

[Forty Winks]

You are wrong 'cause the population doesn't just revolve around PC's yeah maybe lots of PC's are magickers, but how many npc's vnpc's are magickers? not many I can think of, and theres about ten thousand times more Vnpcs than actual players, and not any of them are magickers.

Besides that I go for days with out seeing magickers, and there is more mundane PC's than there is Magickers or Karma required guilds.

When talking about PC populations, it isn't very relavent to bring in the VNPC population to refute a position... :wink:  And I don't even think you're on the same page as Xygax.

Anyways, as it is currently, gemmed don't have much of a social life outside their quarter, and although there are places inside the quarters (such as the plaza) where mages can go, there isn't enough of a PC population to be a reliable and enjoyable place to reside. So, an option that is left is to go to low-life taverns such as the Gaj and hope to get some interaction. Yeah, all the situations that come up with gemmed vs. nongemmed interaction exists but at least you get to interact with other PCs. This is of course my own simple reasoning of the most likely reason why you might see a gemmed outside the quarters.

What to do about this I think is the real question.

[Ghost]

Anyways, as it is currently, gemmed don't have much of a social life outside their quarter, and although there are places inside the quarters (such as the plaza) where mages can go, there isn't enough of a PC population to be a reliable and enjoyable place to reside.

I think there is enough of a PC/NPC/vNPC population of gemmed to start a tavern for them.  Take Red Storm/Red Storm East:  I do believe there is enough of a PC population of gemmed to beat them, if not NPC/vNPC.  And those villages do have one tavern each in that sense.

I think it would be good to have such a tavern for magickers.

[Forty Winks]

I agree a tavern in the elementalist quarter wouldn't hurt, but I think 'tavern' implies a solid building with rentable rooms and entertainment. A simple sheltered gathering place such as a decent-sized tent with drinks and snacks would suite the purpose just as well IMO. The small plaza in the quarters would be a nice place to put it.  :wink:

[Angela Christine]

I'm against isolating the Gemmed, simply because I don't think the game needs another iso-clan.  If most of the Gemmed stayed in their quarter (except for quick jaunts through the streets to get to the bazaar or the gates) and most of the non-gemmed stay out of the quarter, then you wind up with a Gemmed mini-MUD that doesn't interact with the rest of the playerbase.

Mages are supposed to interact with non-mages.  There are spells that are clearly going to benefit other people more than they benefit the mage himself.  Ok, a group of various elementally inclined mages could form a sort of Superfriends and layer spells on eachother, but I don't see how this would be better than mages and non-mages working together.  Zalanthas doesn't need the X-men.



Angela Christine

[Ghost]

Yes AC.  But the tavern for mages would be something like some place to go when there is need for a mage.  I think that alone is a good enough idea for this.  Mages being unwanted in commoner tavern, and the same goes for a commoner in the mage tavern.  Yet, both parties go to the tavern reserved for the other population if there is need, and bear the tension.  Right now, gemmed are coming to Bard's barrel because they don't have a tavern in their own quarter.  Commoners might or might not harrass them, but seeing that magicker at the next table where you are sitting everyday is not going to encourage the "fear" or "uneasiness" that a commoner-mage should feel against each other.

[amoeba]

Having a gemmed tavern is all good and fine, but in practice people will go to wherever the PC crowd is.   There may be a number of gemmed now, but that won't be true forever.   When you see just one or two gemmed on at any given time, it's highly unlikely the "player" will choose to spend all thier free time just hanging with the npc/vnpc crowd.

As the playerbase grows, and yes I think it will grow in time, this will become more of a viable option. For now I see it simply as a neat idea. Sure implement it, but in practice it will be as crowded as the burrow in Tuluk is at most times.

[Rindan]

I'm against isolating the Gemmed, simply because I don't think the game needs another iso-clan.  If most of the Gemmed stayed in their quarter (except for quick jaunts through the streets to get to the bazaar or the gates) and most of the non-gemmed stay out of the quarter, then you wind up with a Gemmed mini-MUD that doesn't interact with the rest of the playerbase.

Mages are supposed to interact with non-mages.  There are spells that are clearly going to benefit other people more than they benefit the mage himself.  Ok, a group of various elementally inclined mages could form a sort of Superfriends and layer spells on eachother, but I don't see how this would be better than mages and non-mages working together.  Zalanthas doesn't need the X-men.

Personally, I think that the gemmed are already almost completely disconnected from the MUD.  Other then their interactions with noble houses, and by noble houses I mean Oash, gemmed live extremely isolated lives with minimal interaction.  The basic reason behind this is two fold.

First, gemmed can't talk about what they do in public.  It will start a lynch mob.  So, you basically have a guy who shows up the tavern and quietly sits there.  When the Byn are talking about their last job, the Kadian is talking about how hard he is working, the gemmed just sort of dully sits there.

Second, there is no place to build a foundation for commoner/gemmed interactions.  When you are in public, what you can realistically do with a gemmed is drastically limited.  If you start talking to a gemmed, even if it is just a casual friendly conversation, it looks extremely suspicious.  People are just too conscious of being seen with a gemmed – and rightfully so.  This makes getting in contact very hard, and it makes it even harder to make a proposition for the use of the gemmed's powers.  Not only do you have to make contact and figure out if the guy you are talking to is even of the right element, but then you need to some how drag him away to talk business.  If a mercenary captain starts talking to a Krathi about what he can do for an upcoming mission, he is risking setting off a lynch mob.

What gemmed and commoners need is a place that is gemmed territory.  They need a place where the two can meet, talk, and do it only for ears that don't care about the social stigma you are breaking.  Namely, they need a tavern on the edge of the elementalist quarters.  Such a place would not only give gemmed a place to actually interact with each other, but it would serve is an obvious and discrete place to contact gemmed about doing work.  With such a place, you drastically increase the likelihood of gemmed doing more then alternating between spending time in their temple and RPing how quietly they can sit in the tavern.

Gemmed are currently isolated.  This isn't doing anyone any good.  Putting in a tavern for them isn't going to isolate them more.  On the contrary, it will concentrate them, dramatically increase the amount of interaction they see, and make them easily accessible for those who wish to take advantage of their services.  Hell, if nothing else it might provoke more gemmed to keep playing as gemmed.  Perhaps it has changed, but the last time I played as a gemmed people appeared and vanished faster then a pile of Byn recruits walking along the shield wall in a sandstorm.  I can't imagine that they all managed to find an unlikely way to get killed.  People just got bored and ditched the role.  I would much rather see some long lived and powerful gemmed moving and shaking the world, then a constant stream of elementalist who don't branch their first power before giving up in frustration and boredom.

Besides, even if the tavern was a complete failure and it fulfilled your absolute lowest expectations, how much worse off would the MUD be?  I say, give it a try.  If it fails, eh, just have a crazy Krathi burn the place down.  Honestly though, I think it is going to have the exact opposite effect as what AC proposes.  I think it will dramatically INCREASE meaningful interactions between commoners and gemmed and lead to MORE plots between the two.

[Larrath]

I agree with Rindan.

Additionally, I will say this - it's not practical for a PC gemmer to never leave the Elementalist's Quarter simply because they will eventually have to buy food and water, or alternately kidnap some commoner's baby, in order to get their nutrition.

[Kalden]

Additionally, I will say this - it's not practical for a PC gemmer to never leave the Elementalist's Quarter simply because they will eventually have to buy food and water, or alternately kidnap some commoner's baby, in order to get their nutrition.

Both are available in the Quarter, I believe.

Other then their interactions with noble houses, and by noble houses I mean Oash, gemmed live extremely isolated lives with minimal interaction.

Doesn't the Templarate ever hire them?

If you start talking to a gemmed, even if it is just a casual friendly conversation, it looks extremely suspicious. People are just too conscious of being seen with a gemmed – and rightfully so.

Virtually, that might be the case. IG? The gemmed know how to party.

but it would serve is an obvious and discrete place to contact gemmed about doing work.

Is it even legal to hire gemmed to do work?

Gemmed are currently isolated.

See above. The regulars at the bars (the Gaj and the Bard's Barrel) are gemmed.

As the playerbase grows, and yes I think it will grow in time, this will become more of a viable option.

I think the playerbase will decrease. However, more of the existing players will have magicker karma. I'd say the standards for getting said karma are pretty low now.


All that said, I think a tavern in the Elementalist Quarter (on the edge) would be nice.

[Anonymous]

On top of the normal OOC problems with being a gemmed, it makes it worse when the templarate tells your gemmed that they are not allowed in the other taverns or around commoners upon pain of death.

Just for being gemmed.
(Yes it is IC which is fine but I think they have to take into consideration the OOC situation they just put your gemmed mage in.)

Now, there is almost no OOC enjoyment with what is already a pretty isolated role.  You are now restricted to leaving the city with a big flag on you that shows you are a magicker and being killed, staying in the quarter and have the wonderful joy of solo rp only, or break the rules laid down by the templar and die.

Whoopee!

I had enjoyment in the rp that put my pc in this situation but now OOC I'm thinking I may as well retire the character. *sigh* I'm so bummed out.

[A Gemmer Kank]

On top of the normal OOC problems with being a gemmed, it makes it worse when the templarate tells your gemmed that they are not allowed in the other taverns or around commoners upon pain of death.

Just for being gemmed.
(Yes it is IC which is fine but I think they have to take into consideration the OOC situation they just put your gemmed mage in.)

Now, there is almost no OOC enjoyment with what is already a pretty isolated role.  You are now restricted to leaving the city with a big flag on you that shows you are a magicker and being killed, staying in the quarter and have the wonderful joy of solo rp only, or break the rules laid down by the templar and die.

Whoopee!

I had enjoyment in the rp that put my pc in this situation but now OOC I'm thinking I may as well retire the character. *sigh* I'm so bummed out.

This is an IC issue that will quite probably be resolved - and feel free to try and contribute to it.  Being forced into a quarter isn't at all the same as being confined to your temple, especially right now when there more gemmers than tall, muscular men.
Feel free to kill, cheat, lie, bribe, seduce, coerce, kill, steal, strongarm and do anything else within IC reason for your character in order to remedy this situation.

Things look just fine for me, at least thus far, and if there are still problems then emailing the MUD account and/or Templarate staffers would be much more effective than taking it to the boards.

[Anonymous]

On top of the normal OOC problems with being a gemmed, it makes it worse when the templarate tells your gemmed that they are not allowed in the other taverns or around commoners upon pain of death.

Being a witness to that event I am pretty sure that the templarate did not say that you could not enter taverns. I'd say roll with this IC for now and see how things pan out.

[Cenghiz]

Additionally, I will say this - it's not practical for a PC gemmer to never leave the Elementalist's Quarter simply because they will eventually have to buy food and water, or alternately kidnap some commoner's baby, in order to get their nutrition.

Both are available in the Quarter, I believe.

No, food's not available.. Maybe it's just a bug - a NPC suddenly stopped selling the only food that gemmers could find-, but at least, good food's not available. I bugged the NPC just in case, but maybe he's not supposed to sell food any more.

And even if we have a working NPC selling food, it's.. eh.. Just one variety of food for the rich gemmer who works as a desert patrol for templerate and a part-time raider? I would love to see rukkians collecting donations for their temple in exchange of the food they create. So gemmers would have craftable food (they're craftable really well if you mix them with some materials from a grocery) and some solo-cooking sessions to spice up their usual 'emote arches his arms to sides and the reality bends'-type practice sessions. Also they would have less risk if they're caught hungry in the middle of a practice session, they would risk being whipped by moving with a magickal effect inside their quarters instead of risking death by walking right past Bard's.

[Anonymous]

I really have no idea what the fuck you just said.

Besides, selling food created by Rukkians is not applicable. If you have played one, you will understand what I mean without it being spoken.

[Cenghiz]

Why not? Yes I understand. Rukkians are more druidic.. But still your personality is something more than your magickal background. A rukkian may be a wicked fool who just likes spice and women and men or children or anything he can find in his bed and he may still cast 'mon un ruk.....' which kills anything in the room. Codewise it's possible - noone gives you mana just because you're druidic, it increases itself, the power leaks into you from Ruk and Krok - and ICly it's possible, as the magickal RPing guide says you're something more than your element and just because he may chant, the usual characteristics of the PC should not change. A gypsy vivaduan still tries to steal babies, remember?
To tell the truth, I don't like folks who play out especially gemmers as the prophets of the elements. Because of IC reasons which may be learned when you have a 'strong' elementalist who branches one of his most powerful spells with the help of a little bit of imm interaction -and I believe they like that animation anytime it's possible-, it's not very possible for a gemmer inside the city to be totally in rhyme with his/her element. We're speaking about gemmers, who have sacrificed some of their pride and most of their freedom just for safety and an easy life. Selling the gifts of Ruk should not be something uncommon, as selling gifts of Vivadu is common.
And if you're speaking about some feature of creating food, eh.. I said we may craft the food the rukkians sell. The ones who played a rukkian or who interacted with one will know that it's still possible to use a fruit they create for some fancy bread or cake. So a gemmer may decide to cook some fine cakes and bread for the dinner in his forced-solo-RP time to break the chain of boredom. As most may know, it's too hard to find fine fruits in Allanak, except one store which has limited supplies. So why not code one, when normally you would find 53 VNPC rukkians ready to sell some fruits to you?

[flame]I didn't like someone telling me "I don't know what the fuck you're speaking about.' If you did not understand, simply STFU instead of flaming or post like a civil person, anonymous flea store.[/flame]