-The- Raiding post.

[Moofassa]

The following is based on an actual IC event, but in no way can be traced to an actual event.




                              Along the North Road


The big fat human has arrive from the south, riding a big yellow kank.

The big fat human dismounts, to skin a dead carru lying in the middle of the road.

Hiding elf, sneaks up behind human.

The hooded, freaky elf, walks up behind you with an arrow drawn, feet from your neck, shouting in poor sirihish' Give up, or i shoot'


big fat human mounts kank, spam flees away.



Ok, i know there have been many many posts about this. But i think we need to dicuss why this happens. And when it's twinking, and when it's RP.
In that scenario, it just isnt realistic, because the arrow would make big fat human into big fat corpse. I wanted to start a thread on how to react properly to a raid, and how to raid properly.
Im tired, of both, people spam walking away from death traps, and elven raiders not raiding fairly.

Please.

[Cenghiz]

Find paralyzing poison, poison your arrow, shoot after he escapes and go kill him, ending with OOC: Next time you want interaction, you start emoting.
But please please please, don't start a discussion.. It's been discussed a bazillion times before.

Note: Dead animal to skin? Heh, kudos. Perfect idea.

[Moofassa]

Thankyou. It's a favorite, now i've gone and given in away.


I really think this needs to be discussed seriously, not in a i hate you, you hate me sort of way. But a real discussion of why this happens, and how we can change it.

[facehugger]

You can also look at that from the other side.

Let's say you're on the road. Flat, empty road. Flat, barren wastes for a hundred cords in each direction.

Just because you think you're good at sneaking. Just because you happen to have made your hide roll... This does not mean that you'd be able to creep along the flat empty area to come within a close enough distance to hold the tip of your drawn arrow a cord from someone's neck. I would rank that in the same "forsive RP" catagory as saying that you managed to get close enough to someone in a tavern to hold your knife to their throat. Getting close enough, unseen, to make an offensive strike is already a coded feature of the game. It's called Backstab.

I'll also touch on the other matter near since, of people complaining about "We raided him and had all directions guarded, but he still fled! Even though we had all the directions guarded!" Well... one coded room in the environment, is a very large deal of space. Let's say its much smaller than it really is, call it a 100' x 100' block. Well, if you've got four people each attempting to block someone from getting past a 100' wide stretch of land... not very easy. Watch a football/soccer/basketball/hockey game some time, you'll quickly see what I mean.

[Moofassa]

I completely agree, this is the type of discussion i was hoping for.

Alright, so say they poweremote, how should one react?

[Gaare]

I would make hidden emotes while following the figure with "think." Same for stealing, hiding, etc...

[Cenghiz]

I simply disagree.. If he placed a dead animal ready for skinning for nice hide there, I'm sure he RPed hiding somewhere close.. His aim's to attack when the victim's involved in the corpse. Even a seven year old boy may understand the aim of the unskinned corpse and the incoming raider.

[facehugger]

I simply disagree.. If he placed a dead animal ready for skinning for nice hide there, I'm sure he RPed hiding somewhere close.. His aim's to attack when the victim's involved in the corpse. Even a seven year old boy may understand the aim of the unskinned corpse and the incoming raider.

It doesn't matter if he "RPed hiding somewhere close"... Assuming this person even bothered to read the room description to see if there could possibly be somewhere close to hide.

We're still talking about closing the distance between "somewhere close" and "right next to you". The closer you get to someone, the harder it is to continue to go unnoticed. If it is in the middle of a road, as the original scenario stated, that means that there is going to be at least 10 or so cords of open, empty area that said raider is going to have to "sneak" through to get that close.

Now... we'll add in more factors.

Alright. Say there happened to be this big boulder, large enough to hide behind. That this boulder was right on the edge of the road. That this wasn't one of the big roads (remember, the average "road" through the wastes is large enough to handle even an Argosy, so we're talking roads that are an easy 50 cords wide) and that this boulder was only 5 cords from the center of the road, where said corpse was placed....

Now, say we're assuming that the prey is a good enough a sport to take in the environment and go with the flow, to allow the arrow wielding fiend to sneak up close enough to place a drawn arrow tip a cord from their neck... Is this arrow wielding fiend going to be a good enough sport to take in the random chances of, say... what direction this person is facing, when they crouch down to skin the beast? Usually, emotes alone aren't enough to determine this, since most of the time the arrow wielding fiend isn't going to emote out which side of the road they're hiding on, and most of the time the victim won't emote which way they're facing when they crouch down to skin. So it's up to the fiend to use their judgement.. To roll a dice, flip a coin, to put in enough random chance to see if their carefully arranged planned would actually work, once the trap was sprung.

Would your average fiend do this?

[Moofassa]

Average fiend, noobie fiend, experienced fiend. Even if he's facing the elf, would you get up and run, just because you saw where he came from, with his arrow drawn?

[amoeba]

Ok, i know there have been many many posts about this. But i think we need to dicuss why this happens. And when it's twinking, and when it's RP.

But please please please, don't start a discussion.. It's been discussed a bazillion times before.

It has been discussed many times, but it is importiant.

My opinions, ignore them as you wish:

- First I *expect* that many people will do this, fight or flight, kinda a natural reaction. So that being said. Plan for it. You know for those folks that say it's unrealistic, I've encountered similar in RL, you know what I did?  I ran. As simple as that.  There are things you can do to anticipate this reaction, and no I'm not telling any

- please don't ooc because you are unhappy with the situation and you want to get your digs in. Wish up, email, whatever.

- Don't get so ate up in the needing an emote gratification that that is all that matters. Chase the damn guy, you're an elf, you know he's keeping to the road, cut him off at the pass, have your buddies waiting, whatever. I enjoy the chase at least as much as catching him.

- If you are the initiator of the scene it is your responsablity to set the scene (i.e emote), the other person is reacting to you. How they are going to react will depend on a number of factors not in your control.  How experienced with RP they are, how powerfull they are, can they survive an attack, did they get ooc panicky about it and just start mashing keys., etc.  In short worry about how you react not how they "should" react.

- Deferentiate between "raiding" and assassinating. Sometimes the intent is to simply kill the target for whatever reason. In this case stealth is probably called for, so don't be shocked at the attack from nowhere. There are skills for sleathy behaviour, and there are tools for detection.  Still if possible, the inittator should try if possible to convey a scene, not always possible, but they should try.

- As a raider, I try to do at least a little setup, sometimes they run off before my poky fingers get it out, other times I get to complete the scene. When the people just off fast, both ICly and OOCly I think I just need to get faster and better at this, I shrug and I move on.  I Don't always succeed at setting the scene well, sometimes it's out of my control. Event's move to quickly. Sometimes it all goes nicely.

- As a victim, I have been guilty of bahamet fleeing behaviour. You know what I mean. A bahamet appears in the room, you stand and run hard.  I don't think many stop to a emote about being scared before booking it.  Just remember to some players, you, the raider are the bahamet.  Don't be so shocked when they just run.  As you get more powerful and/or more experianced you know how much time you have before you're in any serious danger, you have the luxury of a nicely drawn out RP scene.

-In short, Do the best that you can do. do whats appropriate ICly.  Enjoy it when it works well,  move on and learn from it when it doesn't.  There are always comments about trusting the other, well this isn't about them, you can't control them, just do whats correct for you. If the person is an obvious twink, give it to the IMMS and move on with the knowledge that you did what you could.

[facehugger]

Average fiend, noobie fiend, experienced fiend. Even if he's facing the elf, would you get up and run, just because you saw where he came from, with his arrow drawn?

The example was a situation where a fiend was able to sneak up to a point blank range where he likely would not miss.

Now, if you're coming around a boulder, ten feet away... yea, chances are I'd make a move in the few to several second time period it took for the fiend to get a bead on me. Be it getting a shield up, drawing my weapons and charging, or hopping on my kank and making a run for it...

In my mind, chances are, that if I let the fiend get within a point blank range of a possibly lethal shot, that I'm going to die. I'd much rather act when I stood a better chance of survival.

[Moofassa]

No one said he was going to kill you. You just reacted right away... would you actually charge a man with an arrow pointed at your face, the second you made any hostile movement, realistically, the arrow would be in your eye socket.


Edited to add: This is off topic, if you wanna dicuss this more with me, id be glad to send me a PM. back to more Amoeba like posts.

[Anonymous]

Did you email the staff?  That's more likely to get any desired change in play from that one PC than this post.

[facehugger]

No one said he was going to kill you. You just reacted right away... would you actually charge a man with an arrow pointed at your face, the second you made any hostile movement, realistically, the arrow would be in your eye socket.

No, I think this is on topic.

When someone draws a weapon and comes at me, I will assume that their intent is to kill me. I think most people would. This is Zalanthas.

And, if you will look at the example I was stating... When I said reacted right away, I am talking about reacting when I see someone coming around a corner of a boulder. When they are rounding a corner, they do not have an arrow pointed at my face. They have an arrow pointed off to the side, at some odd angle that might roughly be my torso level. When they round the corner enough so that their face is visible, that I can see their eyes, which means that they can see me, that is when they begin to angle their bow so that their arrow will be pointed at my face. This takes time. Minutes? No. But a couple/few seconds is plenty enough time for me to begin to react. It's enough time for me to raise my shield to cover my face. It's enough time for me to take a leaping dive behind my kank. It's enough time to make sure that they don't he sure shot that having an arrow aimed point blank at a still target would give them. It's far harder to hit a moving target at 10 cords than it is to hit a neck from a cord away.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I'd go with a stepped process.

1. If you've got time to emote with the guy, you've got time to create a quick alias - alias x shoot bigfathuman.  If he mounts up with no rp, reward him by shooting him.  Hopefully you've got some poisoned arrows on hand to make it a more pleasant experience (for you).  Since in theory that's what you were threatening to do if the guy moved, it certainly seems a logical conclusion to his actions.

2. Log the event, email the mud.

3. If you see the same guy again, turn mercy on, shoot first and ask questions later, but don't let it affect your future interactions with other people.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Just because you think you're good at sneaking. Just because you happen to have made your hide roll... This does not mean that you'd be able to creep along the flat empty area to come within a close enough distance to hold the tip of your drawn arrow a cord from someone's neck. I would rank that in the same "forsive RP" catagory as saying that you managed to get close enough to someone in a tavern to hold your knife to their throat. Getting close enough, unseen, to make an offensive strike is already a coded feature of the game. It's called Backstab.

I'm not prepared to concede that RPing sneaking up behind someone and putting a knife to their throat is bad RP.  Neither the backstab command or the subdue command can portray that situation properly, and so it seems to me that it's unhappily left in the field of emotes.  But that isn't really what the topic at hand is, and I don't want to talk about it.

But getting to within say... 30 feet of someone?  Close enough to nock an arrow and aim it?  That falls solely under the domain of the hide and sneak skills.  Yes, solely.  If you succeed at remaining undetected, then you've done it.  If you don't succeed, then you haven't.  It is now the job of the target of your emotes to role-play accordingly, with the understanding that they didn't notice you until you made your presence known.

What it appears you're suggesting is that you aren't really hidden unless your target agrees with you that you are.  Since this is not a MUSH, that idea is ridiculous beyond reconciliation.  Your victim doesn't decide on your ability to hide and sneak, and you don't decide on your ability to hide and sneak, or even in what places it's not possible to hide and sneak.  The code does.  There is nothing more to be said.

I'll also touch on the other matter near since, of people complaining about "We raided him and had all directions guarded, but he still fled! Even though we had all the directions guarded!" Well... one coded room in the environment, is a very large deal of space. Let's say its much smaller than it really is, call it a 100' x 100' block. Well, if you've got four people each attempting to block someone from getting past a 100' wide stretch of land... not very easy. Watch a football/soccer/basketball/hockey game some time, you'll quickly see what I mean.

Here's another thing that's ridiculous.  The idea that there are things which exist called "rooms" which are three leagues in length and width, and to keep someone from exiting this "room" you must cover these entire three leagues.

I don't know when or where it was said that a room was three leagues in length, but that's only to give you a sense of perspective as to how big the world is.  If you maintain that this tidbit means that it's impossible to use the guard command in the wilderness, then you should also have to accept that it's impossible to use the archery command in the wilderness on any target that isn't in the same room as you are.  In gameplay terms, the idea of rooms doesn't work at all.

When someone guards an exit and prevents you from leaving, it means that they're close enough to you to prevent you from escaping.  If they try to prevent you from leaving but fail, then they weren't close enough.  That's all you need to know.

[wizturbo]

Adding a "threaten" ability which has been suggested would allievate many of these problems.  But in all actuality, don't sweat it.  I'd wish up before "raiding" anyone anyway, so the imm's would see their poor reaction and no doubt toss a negative comment on their account because of it.  

Then, when they want to app for a special role and get denied, they might reconsider the way they play.

[Dracul]

Threaten Threaten, all the way baby. Would be an awesome command to allow for a lot of rp. Adding emotes into play more too without such a need for all trust.

Code/RP I'm fully behind ERS's post.

What wizturbo said...yeah. Thats a good idea. I'm pretty shy about wishing, asking the imms for things. A lot of times I feel its too trivial to wish up. But notification wishes.  Its -only- one echo. Completely openended.

I would reiterate what ERS said about sneaking up on someone with hide/and or sneak. But, well, he and others said it already.

As for alias.  I normally use the clipboard...type out the command. Highlight it.   Ctrl-c to copy. Ctrl-v, Enter.  Bam!

[facehugger]

But getting to within say... 30 feet of someone?  Close enough to nock an arrow and aim it?  That falls solely under the domain of the hide and sneak skills.  Yes, solely.  If you succeed at remaining undetected, then you've done it.  If you don't succeed, then you haven't.  It is now the job of the target of your emotes to role-play accordingly, with the understanding that they didn't notice you until you made your presence known.

The situation that is under discussion was as follows:

The hooded, freaky elf, walks up behind you with an arrow drawn, feet from your neck, shouting in poor sirihish' Give up, or i shoot'

If you are talking 30 feet, and not point blank, then I certainly agree with you. That falls under sneak and hide.

When someone guards an exit and prevents you from leaving, it means that they're close enough to you to prevent you from escaping.  If they try to prevent you from leaving but fail, then they weren't close enough.  That's all you need to know.

While I'll say that yes, one person can easily situate to hide in a location to be able to pop up within, say, 20 feet of the person, and block them from going that way. But the difficulty involved in four people placing themselves in an, as you say, three league area, that -also- happen to be the same exact area that the victim ends up walking through, is very slim.

[jhunter]

Just because you think you're good at sneaking. Just because you happen to have made your hide roll... This does not mean that you'd be able to creep along the flat empty area to come within a close enough distance to hold the tip of your drawn arrow a cord from someone's neck.

I completely disagree. He snuck up on the character, even dished out an emote. The victim should've rp'd it out. The code is there to decide whether or not he was able to sneak up on you...end of story.

[Maybe42or54]

I agree, unless the guy -assumed- he suceeded in his hide and your scan picked it up.
Open-ended emotes.

[Dracul]

Just a quick note...although it's leaning toward derailment...but wait...the topic is vauge...-the raiding- thread. ooh...know I want to derail.
Ahem.

Guarding. Lets take the example of sports VS guarding E exit in a wilderness room.

Consider the players of proffesional sports as players with a Very High guard skill. Right? They train that, all the time.

Now guard works both ways, having a high guard skill helps you guard, but it also helps you get through guard.             A pro player would have a pretty easy time againt a schmuck. You put any NBA in front of me...unless I get violent I'm not gonna get a basketball past them.

My allusion.

[EvilRoeSlade]

The hooded, freaky elf, walks up behind you with an arrow drawn, feet from your neck, shouting in poor sirihish' Give up, or i shoot'

If you are talking 30 feet, and not point blank, then I certainly agree with you. That falls under sneak and hide.

Okay, I see what you're saying.  I don't think being a cord away from someone is exactly ideal ambush range for a bow-wielding raider, unless that raider's aim is so horrible that it's necessary, and in that case he's probably screwed anyway.

I percieved that you were trying to justify spam-fleeing in a situation that favors the victim code-wise and the raider RP-wise.  If that's not the case, then I don't have much more to say.

While I'll say that yes, one person can easily situate to hide in a location to be able to pop up within, say, 20 feet of the person, and block them from going that way. But the difficulty involved in four people placing themselves in an, as you say, three league area, that -also- happen to be the same exact area that the victim ends up walking through, is very slim.

But see here, you still haven't gotten out of the room mentality.  The action of any given scene does NOT always take place in a three league area.  If four people are surrounding a victim and trying to prevent his escape, they can do it if they're close enough to that person.  If they didn't do it, they weren't close enough.

But I agree that it's fine for someone to attempt to flee in that situation.  If his escape works, then they didn't corner him skillfully enough.  If his escape doesn't, then they did.

Now, if twenty people were all emoting surrounding someone and he just spam-fled away, then that would bother me a hell of a lot.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

I still say when people spam flee away when they get threatened by a bowmen close by, they are putting a lot of faith in their raider or their steel chainmail. Not to mention the code.

[Rhyden]

Find paralyzing poison, poison your arrow, shoot after he escapes and go kill him, ending with OOC: Next time you want interaction, you start emoting.
But please please please, don't start a discussion.. It's been discussed a bazillion times before.

Note: Dead animal to skin? Heh, kudos. Perfect idea.

The skill poisoning is a very hard skill to aquire. Even more so is the correct poisons. IRL, if somebody has an arrow pulled back aiming anywhere near my head, sure I might roll out of the way if I was courageous/amazing agile man, but I wouldn't even try jumping back onto my mount. That could equal an arrow to the back of the head.

But, one has to consider the composants of arrows...flint, agate, obsidian, quartz, wood...some arrows aren't that tough, bows aren't that strong and most people know this.

This instance has happened to me before as well, Moofassa but an even worse scenario. Shot one arrow into X's body, X stood up, shot another arrow into X's body, X mounts X's Y, shot another arrow into X's body then X rides away. Chase after X and shot another arrow this time in X's helmless head. What should have happened? Recoil from first arrow, probably resulting in X clutching the pain-filled arrow stuck in X's bloodied chest. What did happen? Shot 4 arrows into X, X rides away with no emotes or role-playing at all. End of story, world is full of twinks...I mean, riding away with 3 arrows in your chest then being shot in the head while riding? Pulleaze!

[mansa]

Strange, I thought this thread was about the raider outpost full of muls.  Gosh darn it, how do those muls survive year after year without being able to reproduce?  /derail

[Delirium]

Sounds like somebody needs to work on their archery skill, and merely grazed said target's chest or head because they didn't aim well enough.

Not that I'm sticking up for twinks, but just because you land a hit with an arrow doesn't mean they now have fletching sticking out from between their ribs.

When you get good with that bow.. you'll know. Heh.

[Maybe42or54]

Especially when your arrows are tipped with agate, flint, and other pure crap. And then what if the guy is wearing -bone- cuirass? Flint would shatter in my opinion.

[Rhyden]

Sounds like somebody needs to work on their archery skill, and merely grazed said target's chest or head because they didn't aim well enough.

Not that I'm sticking up for twinks, but just because you land a hit with an arrow doesn't mean they now have fletching sticking out from between their ribs.

When you get good with that bow.. you'll know. Heh.

No, this character was quite a good archer, why X didn't fall down dead after 3 hits still amazes me, why X still rode on as an arrow struck the back of his head amazes me as well.

[Maybe42or54]

How do you know it was the back of his head? Was he wearing a helmet? A bone helmet maybe? An oiled up leather helmet? A holy sandcloth wrap?

[Rhyden]

How do you know it was the back of his head? Was he wearing a helmet? A bone helmet maybe? An oiled up leather helmet? A holy sandcloth wrap?

Very good question, before the shooting, I snuck up on X, took a good look at X and snuck away at good shooting range. No helmet, no neckwear, nadda, mainly sandcloth. I know I shot X in the back of the head because I shot X in the head while he rode away from me. Whether or not my character was an astounding archer or a new-shooter, being struck in the back of the head while riding will have concequences other than remaining to ride, especially with 3 more arrows in X's body.

[Maybe42or54]

Where were the other arrows?
If he didn't die from an arrow to the head, then I would say it grazed at best. and would expect that person to RP a graze.

[HardCarbon]

Missile weapons don't have THAT much stopping power (least not till the era of smokless powder).

"Geronimo joined a group of Apaches. They were called the Chiricahuas. They raided in northern Mexico.  They crossed the border into New Mexico and Arizona. Then Geronimo had a dream.

He dreamed he could not be killed by a white man's bullet.  He dreamed he could not be killed by a Mexican's bullet. He charged an army armed with only a knife.  No matter how many bullets were shot at him, he was not hit. The soldiers cried to St. Jerome for mercy.  So Goyathlay was renamed "Geronimo."

http://www.americanindians.com/Geronimo.htm


Kind of amazing what some people can shrug off....  I do think they way Armageddon works kind of disses missle weapons for PC's  but I've still a lot to learn.

[Rhyden]

Where were the other arrows?
If he didn't die from an arrow to the head, then I would say it grazed at best. and would expect that person to RP a graze.

Alrighdy then. Obviously, these were hard hits, seeing there were no misses against X. Not one.

If one is impaled by arrows, I might find it hard to leap back onto a kank and ride away. What I would find even harder is being shot in the back of the head and ignoring it completely. In fact, ignoring any arrow striking against your body, whether it be a 'graze' or a thick hit, is bad form.

What do you mean where were the other arrows? And just because X isn't dead doesn't mean X can't role-play that X is lightly injured to being very badly hurt. And this person did not RP a graze, they didn't even RP it hitting them, they ignored the facts completely and just kept on riding.

-TWINK-

[HardCarbon]

What do you mean where were the other arrows? And just because X isn't dead doesn't mean X can't role-play that X is lightly injured to being very badly hurt. And this person did not RP a graze, they didn't even RP it hitting them, they ignored the facts completely and just kept on riding.

-TWINK-

And You are in charge of combat RP since when?

[Rhyden]

What do you mean where were the other arrows? And just because X isn't dead doesn't mean X can't role-play that X is lightly injured to being very badly hurt. And this person did not RP a graze, they didn't even RP it hitting them, they ignored the facts completely and just kept on riding.

-TWINK-

And You are in charge of combat RP since when?

HC, you don't need to attack. I'm not saying I'm in charge of combat RP, I didn't even have any intentions of the like. I'm saying that if one is hit by an arrow, they should probably play out being hit by an arrow instead of ignoring it. If this is in any way making my in charge of combat RP, I suppose I'm guilty as charged.

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

It depends on how much armor I'm wearing as to how I Rp being hit by an arrow.  

In a past human character who wore only light, thin leathers, I rode through a certain gith arrow storm and ended up with a rather serious body-shot and neck-shot.   Serious in that it took me down, well, below the magic regen point.   For that I Rp'd out the disorientation, the slowness, and the "not quite up to full fightin'" aspect.

In another, more sturdy character, where I was armored up like a bank vault and was peppered by arrows.  Even though I was hit several times. . . none of which hurt me very much. . . I played it off as minor scratches that mostly affected the armor.

Archery is a very, very powerful skill once it is at its full potential.  A good archer will kill you dead in three or four arrows - and that is without all the nifty poisons out there designed to take the gas out of your get-away car.  If they haven't killed me, I'm not going to lay down and feign a sucking chest wound just so they can walk up and pump 10-15 more arrows in me, then draw their sword in frustration and attempt to finish me off.   I'm Boromir, baby.  How many steel-tipped arrows did it take to finish him off?

[Moofassa]

I believe what my dear Rhyden is trying to say is that. This man was hit with multiple arrows, in multiple areas. Areas that would probably hurt. hurt to the point of some sort of RP being needed. Such as. Well krath! There seems to be an arrow sticking out of my chest! oh well. (Thats ok thats possible) Oh hey! One just glances off my head, and theres blood running over my face... wow! That one went IN my head! HAh! im not dead awesome! lets keep riding!


Well yeah, that was pointless. He just is trying to get across the point, that this man didnt even react to the fact that he was hit, grazed or not, no arrows, or one arrow. He just spam walked away. X is a twink.

[HardCarbon]

I believe what my dear Rhyden is trying to say is that. This man was hit with multiple arrows, in multiple areas. Areas that would probably hurt. hurt to the point of some sort of RP being needed. Such as. Well krath! There seems to be an arrow sticking out of my chest! oh well. (Thats ok thats possible) Oh hey! One just glances off my head, and theres blood running over my face... wow! That one went IN my head! HAh! im not dead awesome! lets keep riding!


Well yeah, that was pointless. He just is trying to get across the point, that this man didnt even react to the fact that he was hit, grazed or not, no arrows, or one arrow. He just spam walked away. X is a twink.

And if he had taken the time out to type out an emote of crawling aboard his kank and riding off slumped over its back he would have been spam shot several more times..

[Moofassa]

I really dont think you can "spam shoot" Someone.. there are all the delays in it. Im very confident in Rhyden's roleplaying, and i dont believe he would do anything that would be considering twinkish, abusing the code, or unfair to any other player. And im sure the reason that X got away, was because he was counting on some RP'ing from him.


Like really, take this to real life, you've got an arrow's in your chest, and possibly in your head, i mean are you going to be able to jump on your kank, and just walk away leisurly like nothing is wrong?

Shit i have arrows in my chest and head... Hey joe! Wanna go for a walk back to X-City?         Eh? Sure bob, you're not looking too great, and there are some nasty looking elves following us. We better take it real slow so we dont get too tired.                 Eh? Good idea Joe! Just lemme pretend i never got hit, and we can make it back fine.    Eh? Good idea Bob.


It's just... well, i have very strong opinions, the only reason im arguing is because im sure X didnt play his part properly.

[joyofdiscord]

I really dont think you can "spam shoot" Someone.. there are all the delays in it.

Crafting, foraging, and a zillion other commands all have delays, but we all know about spamcrafting and spamforaging.  Pounding in commands as fast as you can isn't okay just because there is a brief code delay.

Shot one arrow into X's body, X stood up, shot another arrow into X's body, X mounts X's Y, shot another arrow into X's body then X rides away. Chase after X and shot another arrow this time in X's helmless head.

So, you got an arrow into a sitting opponent.  In the time it takes him to stand, you pump ANOTHER one into him?  Sounds like spam archery to me.  Imagine something like this:

An arrow hits you in the body!
>stand
You stand up.

>emote swaying unsteadily, @ rises to h
An arrow hits you in the body!
(Oh shit)

>mount kank
An arrow hits you in the body!
(Double shit!)

>e
An arrow hits you in the head!
>!
>!
>!
>!

I wouldn't really blame him.

If said victim twink was spamming to get away, getting FOUR arrows in him in this time can only be spam archery.  Stand, mount kank, and east are THREE commands.  Draw arrow; shoot arrow times 4 is EIGHT commands PLUS delays.  And this is assuming NO emotes on the part of the archer.  If the archer was emoting or threatening, I highly doubt they would have any chance of hitting more than once or twice.  If the victim didn't get away within the first two archery delays, I would be tempted to suspect that he was TRYING to emote, but turning into a pincushion too quickly for it to be worth it.

Of course, I don't know what happened, I wasn't there.  But there are two sides to every coin, gentlemen.  Also, fight or flight is a powerful response, for players and characters alike.

[Maybe42or54]

Where were the other arrows?
If he didn't die from an arrow to the head, then I would say it grazed at best. and would expect that person to RP a graze.

Alrighdy then. Obviously, these were hard hits, seeing there were no misses against X. Not one.

If one is impaled by arrows, I might find it hard to leap back onto a kank and ride away. What I would find even harder is being shot in the back of the head and ignoring it completely. In fact, ignoring any arrow striking against your body, whether it be a 'graze' or a thick hit, is bad form.

What do you mean where were the other arrows? And just because X isn't dead doesn't mean X can't role-play that X is lightly injured to being very badly hurt. And this person did not RP a graze, they didn't even RP it hitting them, they ignored the facts completely and just kept on riding.

-TWINK-

It sounds to me like you are a twink. Since you are, in effect, Forcing the guy to be hit square in the back of the head with an arrow from what, three screens away? Let's take an M-16. Maximum effective range is what, 1200 feet? And you shot the arrow from what, 2 or three leagues away? And let us say you were using the basic cheap arrows, a slender wooden flight arrow. I have been shot with a sharpened stick from a potatoe launcher in the shoulder. Hell -yes- it did hurt. But it didn't do any real damage.

[jhunter]

If said victim twink was spamming to get away, getting FOUR arrows in him in this time can only be spam archery. Stand, mount kank, and east are THREE commands. Draw arrow; shoot arrow times 4 is EIGHT commands PLUS delays. And this is assuming NO emotes on the part of the archer. If the archer was emoting or threatening, I highly doubt they would have any chance of hitting more than once or twice. If the victim didn't get away within the first two archery delays, I would be tempted to suspect that he was TRYING to emote, but turning into a pincushion too quickly for it to be worth it.

And how much can one emote for pulling out an arrow, nocking it taking him...letting the code say you do the same again...it's pretty redundant. In that situation emoting does little to nothing to add to the scene.
Is them just pulling and shooting arrows realistic? Hell yes.

Is the victim acting like nothing happened and just hopping on their mount and walking away after being drilled with arrows? Fuck no.

You all have to remember that the advantage (which is an unfair advantage) is on the side of the victims...cut the attackers a little slack and I'm sure more will be willing to roleplay attacks out without having to resort to drilling people with arrows right away or whatever.

I plan that when I do a raider in the future sometime...I will give the opportunity to RP it out first...you fuck me...I kill your character.

[Rhyden]

I really dont think you can "spam shoot" Someone.. there are all the delays in it. Im very confident in Rhyden's roleplaying, and i dont believe he would do anything that would be considering twinkish, abusing the code, or unfair to any other player. And im sure the reason that X got away, was because he was counting on some RP'ing from him.


Like really, take this to real life, you've got an arrow's in your chest, and possibly in your head, i mean are you going to be able to jump on your kank, and just walk away leisurly like nothing is wrong?

Shit i have arrows in my chest and head... Hey joe! Wanna go for a walk back to X-City?         Eh? Sure bob, you're not looking too great, and there are some nasty looking elves following us. We better take it real slow so we dont get too tired.                 Eh? Good idea Joe! Just lemme pretend i never got hit, and we can make it back fine.    Eh? Good idea Bob.


It's just... well, i have very strong opinions, the only reason im arguing is because im sure X didnt play his part properly.

Lol, that was hilarious, Moofassa. If some of you still don't think this is twink, I may as well just stop right there because there's just no convincing you. Sheesh.

[The one]

As I am probably the one he is talking about, I did RP out a graze. I did emote quite a few times, along with every time I moved, I looked in each direction. I contacted my attackers and wayed them some words. I was armed in full shell and thick leather, except for my head and neck. I "think"ed a few times. I said a few things to my travel partners as I "Spammed away." I aimed a knife back towards my attackers as I watched them and they stopped notching their arrows and left my sight. I charged them and then they ran south, then north, and then north again, spamming. I charged my attackers and they stopping notching and left. I engaged one and they fled away and then ran away from my sight before I got over the kill lag.
After that, I could give a shit less.

As for when I was sitting down and you shot at me, I "said" something as I climbed onto my kank, emote-said something again as one of my partners pulled and arrow from my shoulder with a hefty wince. And -watching- my attackers the whole time, they never emoted. Looked like they aliased "pull quiver" to something easier to type, because my screen was filling with that spam. Then, I said something as I rode off. Gave a pained laugh as I flipped off my attackers in my say-emote.

[The one again]

And I forgot to mention, all those arrows didn't drop me past the point where I could stand and regenarate to full health.

[Rhyden]

I really dont think you can "spam shoot" Someone.. there are all the delays in it.

Crafting, foraging, and a zillion other commands all have delays, but we all know about spamcrafting and spamforaging.  Pounding in commands as fast as you can isn't okay just because there is a brief code delay.

Shot one arrow into X's body, X stood up, shot another arrow into X's body, X mounts X's Y, shot another arrow into X's body then X rides away. Chase after X and shot another arrow this time in X's helmless head.

So, you got an arrow into a sitting opponent.  In the time it takes him to stand, you pump ANOTHER one into him?  Sounds like spam archery to me.  Imagine something like this:

An arrow hits you in the body!
>stand
You stand up.

>emote swaying unsteadily, @ rises to h
An arrow hits you in the body!
(Oh shit)

>mount kank
An arrow hits you in the body!
(Double shit!)

>e
An arrow hits you in the head!
>!
>!
>!
>!

I wouldn't really blame him.

If said victim twink was spamming to get away, getting FOUR arrows in him in this time can only be spam archery.  Stand, mount kank, and east are THREE commands.  Draw arrow; shoot arrow times 4 is EIGHT commands PLUS delays.  And this is assuming NO emotes on the part of the archer.  If the archer was emoting or threatening, I highly doubt they would have any chance of hitting more than once or twice.  If the victim didn't get away within the first two archery delays, I would be tempted to suspect that he was TRYING to emote, but turning into a pincushion too quickly for it to be worth it.

Of course, I don't know what happened, I wasn't there.  But there are two sides to every coin, gentlemen.  Also, fight or flight is a powerful response, for players and characters alike.

Spamshooting?

My character was fast, he was an archer. He was good. Ever seen Legolas pump out a few arrows??? Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam *magically respawn some more arrows in quiver, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam...

My guy would be quite a bit slower than that, but still fast for one in Zalanthas.

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away. My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else. This is not spamming, spamming would be something like, hmmm...


<stand
<mount kank
<hitch kank
<e
<e
<e
<e
<e
<e
<e
<e

(while four arrows have hit you)

[jhunter]

Oddly I can't remember...but can you even see emotes when watching another room?

[Maybe42or54]

You can see emotes, but I don't believe you can see says and that sorta shit.

[Rhyden]

As I am probably the one he is talking about, I did RP out a graze. I did emote quite a few times, along with every time I moved, I looked in each direction. I contacted my attackers and wayed them some words. I was armed in full shell and thick leather, except for my head and neck. I "think"ed a few times. I said a few things to my travel partners as I "Spammed away." I aimed a knife back towards my attackers as I watched them and they stopped notching their arrows and left my sight. I charged them and then they ran south, then north, and then north again, spamming. I charged my attackers and they stopping notching and left. I engaged one and they fled away and then ran away from my sight before I got over the kill lag.
After that, I could give a shit less.

As for when I was sitting down and you shot at me, I "said" something as I climbed onto my kank, emote-said something again as one of my partners pulled and arrow from my shoulder with a hefty wince. And -watching- my attackers the whole time, they never emoted. Looked like they aliased "pull quiver" to something easier to type, because my screen was filling with that spam. Then, I said something as I rode off. Gave a pained laugh as I flipped off my attackers in my say-emote.

Attackers? Knife? Charged? Sorry to bust your bubble, but I don't think you're the correct victim here, sorry! This victim didn't do anything but spam theirself away from direct conflict that needed a certain amount of role-playing to be realistic.

[ashyom]

This thread has degenerated into pointing fingers at person(s) on both sides of this.  I don't think that was the intent of the original poster.  All that does is aggravate people to the point where they flame.  Cut it out.  Either discuss the topic without pointing fingers and without using IC events as examples, or don't post at all.
Thanks,
-Ashyom

[joyofdiscord]

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away.

My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else.

Well obviously you were just whipping out arrows and firing away, that was established.  Was your character thinking at all, or is he a mindless killing machine?  Would thinking would have taken away too much time from pounding arrows repeatedly into a target?  You didn't adjust your aim when your victim stood up?  Or is the code echo and the skillcheck more than enough to account for that, too?

You're blaming your victim from running from the flood of arrows?  You were trying to kill him.  You weren't fast/good enough.  You failed.  Your draw;shoot;draw;shoot;draw;shoot wasn't good enough.  It was good enough to get four arrows in, so you need to get good enough that four arrows in quick succession can kill your target so you can successfully execute draw;shoot;draw;shoot;draw;shoot murders.  Everyone complains about spam-fleeing in the wilderness, but if the attackers aren't willing to do anything more than spam archery commands because "gosh, that's all I'm doing", then it seems like a pretty damned good idea to spam flee from anyone in the wilderness because "gosh, that's all I'm doing, getting the hell out of there".  If we all had to manually emote terrible suffering as soon as the first arrow hit, and the archer only has to pound in commands as fast as the code will allow, then archery becomes, in essence, a one-hit-kill skill.

Obviously, your goal was to turn the target into a corpse object.  That's all well and good.  A quick kill with no emotes can be good roleplay, and often it's the best roleplay.  I agree completely.  And I'm sure the "looting the corpse" roleplay you would have had, either alone or with your raiding partner would have been spectacularly fun, but you failed.  You just weren't good enough.  Oops.  It's too bad the whole situation looks more and more like a H&S style contest of skill levels and typing speed, but who is responsible for it reaching that lowest common denominator?

The argument here seems to be that -your- code echoes were enough, but -his- weren't.  If the code tacked on a "bleeding profusely and writing in pain" to every action that an injured character does, would you be happy then?  I mean, you were using EVERY coded advantage you had on your side, and since the code had some canned flavor text for you, you were set to go.  Your victim got off only some three virtually no-delay commands in the time you got off eight commands, at least half of which have significant delays (during which time you could have pretyped an emote or think, but apparently didn't).

I'm not defending your victim, not at all.  If I'd been in his place, I would have gladly squeezed out a suffering emote or two before the hail of arrows killed off my char.  I would have enjoyed it a great deal too.  I'm dying to get PKed, and I like making new characters.  However, I think the situation is not so clear cut as Me=super roleplayer/super archer; Victim=twink.

[Xamminy]

Oddly I can't remember...but can you even see emotes when watching another room?

You can see emotes, but I don't believe you can see says and that sorta shit.

Unless this has changed, you are incorrect Maybe42or54.  You can see coded actions, like someone standing.  You can not see someone 'em cries like a little girl with an arrow protruding from his chest.'

[Rhyden]

4254, I don't think anybody's really defined the word twink to you before, so here's a rough version for you:

A player who stretches the limit of code unrealistically in order to place themself(ves) at an advantage.

Watch who you call twinkish, 42, twinkish is more than shooting a few arrows at a victim, it is using the code, understanding the unrealism of what is being done. Stop pointing fingers as well, 42, if I was a critical person, I'd probably call you a twink from reading over your many perceptions of the game world, but I won't do that.

Joy, you bring up very good points, my character was played appropriately, the code was used appropriately on my side, but I'm hazy when I look at the victim's contribution. I'm not saying one is a better role-player than the other if there is such a thing, I'm just reminding everybody to look further than the code.

Armageddon isn't several words, numbers and commands. There aren't sdesc, ldescs, rooms, ooc, or even immortals. It is real. And since it is real, one is expected to use the code in order to determine the reality of this world and environment.
-Just a reminder to those who forget this fact.

[Rhyden]

-TWINK-

It sounds to me like you are a twink. Since you are, in effect, Forcing the guy to be hit square in the back of the head with an arrow from what, three screens away? Let's take an M-16. Maximum effective range is what, 1200 feet? And you shot the arrow from what, 2 or three leagues away? And let us say you were using the basic cheap arrows, a slender wooden flight arrow. I have been shot with a sharpened stick from a potatoe launcher in the shoulder. Hell -yes- it did hurt. But it didn't do any real damage.

4254, I think you saw this the wrong way. I wasn't calling you a twink. I was saying that this situation had twink to it. Sorry if you misunderstood, but that still doesn't mean you should just fire back insults with no reason, thanks.

[jhunter]

You can see coded actions, like someone standing. You can not see someone 'em cries like a little girl with an arrow protruding from his chest.'

That's what I had thought...wondering if it had changed or something.

So that would mean if you are using watch and don't see any emotes...don't assume that they aren't emoting.

[Maybe42or54]

Armageddon isn't several words, numbers and commands. There aren't sdesc, ldescs, rooms, ooc, or even immortals. It is real. And since it is real, one is expected to use the code in order to determine the reality of this world and environment.
-Just a reminder to those who forget this fact.

Wouldn't someone die to an arrow in the back of the head? Since they obviously didn't, the code says it wasn't a direct hit.
Powerplaying isn't twinking? That's a new one.
And I said I would, not that you are. That is, after all, the Imms job.
And I do believe saying that -your- arrow hit him as he rode away, in the back of the head, is powerthinking on your side.  :wink:

[Agent_137]

It would be awesome if people would stop using books and movies as references for realism.

[Maybe42or54]

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away. My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else. This is not spamming, spamming would be something like, hmmm...

Maybe that is all the attackee did?
Stood up, mounted and rode away. He let the code do what his character was doing, Why emote when it was already shown?

When your guy was thinking about only shooting the guy, did you "think I am going to kill this guy.
"think That was a hit if I ever saw one."
"think Oh shit. He's standing up."

Since that is probably a no, I wouldn't tell anyone to RP more if you didn't.
Instead you..
Shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
Shoot figure s
pull quiver

Do you alias pull quiver?

[jhunter]

The point is I think that -we- are supposed to rp out injures. If there was nothing done by the victim to display any effects from the injuries then the victim is at fault here.

There's nothing that says you must emote for a coded action that displays what you are doing already.

By what your saying Maybe, people aren't roleplaying if they don't do an additional emote for every one of their actions.
The code doesn't display any effects of injuries..that is left to the player to display.
The code does however show your actions when pulling an arrow from a quiver, taking aim, and shooting the arrow.
One can watch you and see that you are doing so. Unless you emote out effects from injuries..noone can see anything except that you -are- injured in some way.

They cannot tell exactly how you are injured...cannot tell if there are any side effects from your injuries...which 90% of the time there should be. There is alot more area on the side of the victim in this case which needs to be flushed out by the player of the victim.

And I know I've said this before...but it is still waaaaaayyy to easy for a lesser skilled person to flee from a far more skilled opponent.

[Maybe42or54]

My point is that, he should put more RP into it and enjoy it more then being disappointed about someone -else- not roleplaying.
And notice, I used "think"s in my last post, and didn't use emotes to show me shooting already?

The more Rp you put into it= The more Rp you should expect.
instead of
Put only coded actions into it= Expect the other to RP what happens.

[jhunter]

I understand what your saying. I was just saying that in some cases you have more of a responsiblity to display things that the code doesn't cover and accept that some things are covered by the code already.

[joyofdiscord]

Yeah, fair enough.  I just hope that, on the bright sunny day that I get raided by some bow-wielding longear, that when I emote staggering around with an arrow in my chest, my attacker will have the courtesy to emote how he's eyeing me along the length of his arrow shaft as he lines up the final shot.

[Rhyden]

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away. My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else. This is not spamming, spamming would be something like, hmmm...

Maybe that is all the attackee did?
Stood up, mounted and rode away. He let the code do what his character was doing, Why emote when it was already shown?

When your guy was thinking about only shooting the guy, did you "think I am going to kill this guy.
"think That was a hit if I ever saw one."
"think Oh shit. He's standing up."

Since that is probably a no, I wouldn't tell anyone to RP more if you didn't.
Instead you..
Shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
Shoot figure s
pull quiver

Do you alias pull quiver?

Nobody ever said I didn't emote anything, you guys just assumed that since I said I was doing nothing other than shooting at this victim. My memory is hazy, but I do believe inbetween a shot or two I placed a nice emote about aiming, pulling back the string, grunting, etc.

Thinking inbetween every shot would be rediculous and I don't think even you, Maybe, master of all RP would do so.

Code Select Expand

<shoot victim s
<think Good shot, self, think I'll take another
<pull quiver
<shoot victim s
<think Wow, another brilliant shot! Well done! Got him right in the shoulder!
<pull quiver
<shoot victim s
<think Man, I really stink, I should start cleaning myself more often, phew!
<pull quiver
<shoot victim s
<think Oh rats, the victim's jumped onto his mount and rode off, perhaps I shall run after and take another shoot at him...yes, good idea!

That was a little over-exaggerated but you know what I mean. Thinking is like a direct thought, something you pause to think about. When shooting a victim, I'm not going to think about it, just focus and do it. I'll probably place a nice emote to further express how I'm shooting, but nothing more.

As for aliasing pull quiver? I don't think that really matters. You can alias whatever the hell you want if it helps you, I don't really care, just means you have to remember more stuff and you also don't have to type as much.

Joy, if I ever make that raider, I'll be sure to give you several emotes, we could emote ten minutes before every coded action. Lol, wouldn't that be awesome?!?

[Maybe42or54]

Actually, if I was out to raid, I would:
Think Here we go again.
Pull quiver
Shoot figure s
think Feck yes!
pull quiver
shoot figure s (If it was a well placed hit)
think Mine all mine.


But then you two can actually use RP, which sounds like neither of you want to.

[Rhyden]

But then you two can actually use RP, which sounds like neither of you want to.

Assume makes an ass out of u and me, Maybe.

[joyofdiscord]

Joy, if I ever make that raider, I'll be sure to give you several emotes, we could emote ten minutes before every coded action. Lol, wouldn't that be awesome?!?

Oh criminy, I didn't say that.  Read what I wrote.  I said I hoped for -one- emote -after- them seeing that I had emoted.  I'm not going to respond further to this to avoid making a mess of this thread.

[Rhyden]

Joy, if I ever make that raider, I'll be sure to give you several emotes, we could emote ten minutes before every coded action. Lol, wouldn't that be awesome?!?

Oh criminy, I didn't say that.  Read what I wrote.  I said I hoped for -one- emote -after- them seeing that I had emoted.  I'm not going to respond further to this to avoid making a mess of this thread.

I was just jokingly saying that we should do that...

[Forest Junkie]

I'm going to give you some advice Rhyden, as someone who has attempting raiding in the past.

It's been said before, but I feel that this deserves some clarification:

1) It takes two to develop a fun scene when raiding. See below.

2) Do not ever assume that your victim is a twink and spam fleeing with no other thoughts or 'emotes'. You cannot read their mind, nor observe their full actions as an immortal could. Having this mentality will only hurt your roleplay, and cause it to degenerate into a "He won't emote so I'll just NEVER emote and kill everyone because I'm badass and they are all in the wrong." The minute you take on this mentality, you are in the wrong, and have become no better than the supposed "twink" whom fled you.

3) Offer your victim every chance in the world at roleplay. Attempt a warning shot, then run in and verbally threaten their life. Do everything in your power to make this event fun for both of you. This is a game, and we as players should extend courtesy, respect, and trust to our fellow gamers until that trust is broken.

4) Calm down, and take a breather. Believe me when I say that I understand the frustration you must feel at having lost your prey. Do not fret, because if you are cunning and patient, other opportunities will arise and offer themselves to you. The angrier you become ooc, the more brash your IC actions will become, thereby increasing the chances you are going to get smoked.

5) End point: Do not let this one scene discourage you. Take a deep breath, log out, and go watch a movie or read a book, something productive. The minute this game stops being fun is when you need to just quit and chill.

[Rhyden]

Thanks Forrest Junkie, that's really good advice.  

[Cenghiz]

1. You can't watch emotes for sure.
2. If you're hurling arrows from even one room away, the victim maybe thought you were a spam launcher and fled after the second arrow but maybe you were just typing fast.
3. I type real real fast when I'm panicked.. Maybe he typed 4 little emotes like ":winces in painm" ":looks back wincing":leans over ~kank"... etc..
I typed these with my full speed and they're too fast to type, nearly half a second.
4. This is not a MUSH.. If you're not good enough to kill codewise, don't kill. Don't ask other player to sit idle and type 'nosave'.
5. Please let's all suck it up.. With a lot more advantageous chars, I failed raiding. So to raid, you should have aliases set for twinks, too.. That's your responsibility. I'm bored of seeing "D00D!! He'z a twink! Immz fry'im!" posts.. At least wish up if you're sure it's twinking and in this case you're not (see 1 and 3). Every time I wished up politely about someone abusing codewise abilities, I was responded kindly by imms. I don't care if <bla> is twink or not. If I meet him in game, damn right I'll first kill/rob/rape him then I'll still write a note to the account about his twinkish act with a log+time attached.
6. [derailment][chill] MUDsex a lot so you can type faster. [/derailment][/chill]

Now can we again start discussing when it's approtiate to use desert sneak/hide? I was interested in the topic and was watching.

[proxie]

Why don't you try guarding the kank instead?

Cut off their speedy spam-flee escape.

Now... I've been guilty of the running away thing, the adrenaline kicks in and I am gone down the road. But, I usually stop a few squares away and look back over my shoulder, panting. If the person wasn't intending evil intentions, then they can shout, contact... or e (with hands held carefully at sides).

And if they ARE up to evil... a lone raider should always have a backup plan anyway, and so my spam flee might be right into their second trap.

FYI... corpses used to not always be safe and happy and free money. I think somebody wrote some sweetly vicious code that I wouldn't mind seeing back again, just to make that pc pause and check for tracks to see how long the corpse has been dead before automatically tugging out the plus 20 skinning knife o' doom.

The big thing about raiding... if I'm not stupid about it, I don't think I should be autogacked. I'm willing to rp it out.  I have -no- problem throwing down my valuables if there's a good chance I'm going to be left alive to be raided at a later date.

There was one big raider clan that was good about this, it was fun to raid and fun to be raided. My pc's who led groups that were raided always was firm about being smart when the thick figures with hooded masked cloaks showed up.  I don't know what the current big raiding policies are nowadays.

Sid and gear can be replaced... if you die because you won't turn over your beer money; you're looking at how long before you can find equally cool people to rp with?

--proxie

[Bestatte]

Two true Armageddon stories:

Once upon a time, I had a character who lived north somewhere. She was a rangerly type and liked to ride around the grasslands for shits and giggles. One day, she saw a "very tall figure" with a hood up to the north, two rooms away. She paused, looked again, and saw that he had come closer. Thinking maybe he was chasing a critter, she paused one more time, and he came into the room she was in. She ran away, without so much as a How Do Ya Do.

The player of the hooded figure happened to know who played my character, and sent me an IM asking why I would spam-run like that without even a single moment's pause or emote or grumble or look at the figure or nuttin.

I thought - and thought some more. And told him, "Because I didn't want my character to get killed." After some discussion, it dawned on me - if I really don't want my character to get killed, I probably shouldn't be riding around in the grasslands in the first place.

I apologized to the player for such a poor show, and told him if the opportunity ever arose again, I promised I would at LEAST let the other person know I'm not some kind of spam-bot.

Turns out, the opportunity presented itself shortly after that. And instead of spam-running, I looked at the figure - emoting that I was still at a safe distance, my hand firmly gripped on my weapon. The other character crouched, watching, emoting his gorgeous heart out that he was - at least to my character's perception, merely observing.

We both remained there, observing each other for a few moments, then nodded our heads to each other, and continued on our way.

It was truly a moment I won't forget - two strangers acknowledging each other's existence in the middle of nowhere.

If that player hadn't IMed me, I would probably have missed that moment. In fact, I am sure I would've missed it. I am extremely thankful to that player for pointing out to me that roleplaying *potential* conflict can be just as fun and immersive as anything else, no matter what the outcome is. Because, you never know WHAT that outcome will be, if you continue to run from the meeting.

[Maybe42or54]

Bestatte... I love you..

Rhyden, if you insist on "just shooting" plan on your attackee to "just run."

The faster you shoot the arrows, the more they think "Spam shooter" and I wouldn't even stay around for that even if I had a guy that went matrix every time he saw an arrow come at him.

[jhunter]

The faster you shoot the arrows, the more they think "Spam shooter" and I wouldn't even stay around for that even if I had a guy that went matrix every time he saw an arrow come at him.

I think this is sort of flawed. See, you shoot one arrow...wait...9 times out of 10 they still do the same thing they would have if you'd just started raining arrows on them.

At least if you start raining arrows on them, you really make them hurt.
I've seen this too many times to count. My pc will be leading others along...a single arrow flies in...and everyone around me bolts away suddenly with no emotes at all while I stay...look to see if I can discern where it's coming from and whatnot. Sure, I might actually get shot with the next one...but at least I can see and leave an avenue for some sort of rp.

shout Hold your fire!!!

shout What do you want?!

What your saying Maybe is that you want people to give you as much chance to escape as possible when the deck is stacked against the raider already.
It's much easier to flee than it is to keep someone from fleeing unrealistically, I know this...and on the side of the victim I will leave the opportunity open.

It is 90% the victim in my opinion.

[jhunter]

I am extremely thankful to that player for pointing out to me that roleplaying *potential* conflict can be just as fun and immersive as anything else, no matter what the outcome is. Because, you never know WHAT that outcome will be, if you continue to run from the meeting.

Exactly how I feel about it and why I become extremely frustrated with people who spam leave the instant someone enters the room with them.

Doing that, cuts off all possibility of rp with each other...for better or worse.

[Bestatte]

Although I should add...

If I ever see something like this:

The dead-looking but immense and enormous halfgiant has arrived from the west, his tree-trunk-sized bludgeon-o-doom raised overhead and aimed toward your face.

I hope you will forgive me for not taking a moment to express my character's fear.

run
w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;w;

<shudder>

[Linedel]

Chicken/egg problem.

People won't run when they trust raiders to roleplay.  Raiders blasting the running person because he/she didn't roleplay won't help this.

Raider players can speed this - keep raiding without feeling you have to slaughter if someone runs.  Surviving that event may give them confidence to give you a few seconds the next time.  A few roleplay with you instead of running...  Eventually one posts "thanks!" on the board, and general raider reputation goes up.  Repeat for a while...  And cry when some powergaming tard generates posts that lower player faith in the roleplay of raiders.


The only "permanent" way to "fix" this, is to impose staff repercussions on both sides when poor actions are taken.


(When I played a pseudo-roleplayed raider, it was condoned and supported by certain ex-members of staff.  I assume this doesn't occur anymore.)

[jhunter]

Surviving that event may give them confidence to give you a few seconds the next time.

That's if they don't do what usually happens and go plaster your sdesc all over the boards or spread it around to every pc they know because they were somehow able to see you clearly through your facewrap,mask, and hood or whathaveyou.

IMO, the ones that will run away with no rp whatsoever when you try to rp it out with them are also the same ones that are the x-ray twinks.

The only sure way to prevent your character from being destroyed by a single poor roleplayer is to make sure they die when they refuse to rp it out with you.

It's not chicken and the egg, not all at IMO. As I said before...it's much easier to get away...and as such more of the responsiblity to keep the avenues for rp open lies on the shoulders of the victim.

You don't have to agree with me, but this is the way I see it and will always see it until something is done to make it harder for wounded people to escape and it is made harder to flee against a more skilled opponent.

The threaten idea mentioned sounds interesting, I do think it has the potential for abuse though.

[Rhyden]

Rhyden, if you insist on "just shooting" plan on your attackee to "just run."

The faster you shoot the arrows, the more they think "Spam shooter" and I wouldn't even stay around for that even if I had a guy that went matrix every time he saw an arrow come at him.

That's not the problem, Maybe. The original problem was for the attackee to "just run" with 4+ arrows stuck into their body. That -is- a problem.

[Maybe42or54]

I am not defending the runner by the way, but try to corresponde with them via a Psi or shout and I will back you a 100% and stab that spam runner in the back with a spoon.

[Dracul]

One thing to consider. Just becaue your sdesc is available because of xray twinks.  IT leavea  high possiblity...but that doesnt mean people reading the rumor board won't be cool.  They might take your sdesc as somethign vauge.


Trust.

[Larrath]

Sdescs are never taken as something vague.  That's why I usually try to describe a character by anything BUT their sdesc, unless it's ridiculously blatant.

People can try to ignore it, but once they see "And her hair was the color of flame" on a board, they're going to have flashing red lights whenever they see a flame-colored PC, it's an effort.

[Dracul]

I get you completely Larrath. I'm merely trying to instill at least some extra degree, as its not always that those who are let to get away will be xray superheores in spandex leaping hundred foot walls with a militia sword...but...yes.

Now, it's possible. So, letting someone get away isn't too bad.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Chicken/egg problem.

People won't run when they trust raiders to roleplay.  Raiders blasting the running person because he/she didn't roleplay won't help this.

Raider players can speed this - keep raiding without feeling you have to slaughter if someone runs.  Surviving that event may give them confidence to give you a few seconds the next time.  A few roleplay with you instead of running...  Eventually one posts "thanks!" on the board, and general raider reputation goes up.  Repeat for a while...  And cry when some powergaming tard generates posts that lower player faith in the roleplay of raiders.

In all the cases when people have spam-run away from me, it's when I was in the middle of typing an emote.

In my opinion, this whole problem is entirely the victim's fault.

[Seeker]

In my opinion, this whole problem is entirely the victim's fault

You obviously haven't had one of your new PCs butchered by an insta-attacking raider lately.  Others have.  Explain how it was their fault, please?


Seeker

[Anonymous]

I've never fled from an encounter in the wilds, -and- I've never been raided. Everytime I meet someone, I seriously pray that they are a well-played raider: it would be extremely fun (my characters are usually boring). You may say - oh, well you role-play all of your characters identically. The answer is .... no, I role-play out the encounter given the personality. Just because my character would run, doesn't mean I would -spam- flee. Instead, I offer a few emotes and usually the other person simply rides by with little to offer. Given all of the above....

In all the cases when people have spam-run away from me, it's when I was in the middle of typing an emote.

In my opinion, this whole problem is entirely the victim's fault.

Right, because every raider out there is well role-played.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[EvilRoeSlade]

You obviously haven't had one of your new PCs butchered by an insta-attacking raider lately.  Others have.  Explain how it was their fault, please?

You're right, I haven't.  Do you know why?  Because whenever someone walks up and tries to off me, I flee.  And it's easy as hell, too.  If they throw in an emote while they're at it, then I'll add a one too.  Then I'll flee.

I've NEVER died because I didn't spamwalk to the city the instant I saw a figure enter the room.  If you're in a situation where your opponent is so powerful that you will die if you don't spam-flee away, then your opponent deserves to kill you.  But the odds of this happening are unlikely as hell, and if your opponent is that powerful?  Well, you deserve to die.