-The- Raiding post.

[ashyom]

This thread has degenerated into pointing fingers at person(s) on both sides of this.  I don't think that was the intent of the original poster.  All that does is aggravate people to the point where they flame.  Cut it out.  Either discuss the topic without pointing fingers and without using IC events as examples, or don't post at all.
Thanks,
-Ashyom

[joyofdiscord]

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away.

My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else.

Well obviously you were just whipping out arrows and firing away, that was established.  Was your character thinking at all, or is he a mindless killing machine?  Would thinking would have taken away too much time from pounding arrows repeatedly into a target?  You didn't adjust your aim when your victim stood up?  Or is the code echo and the skillcheck more than enough to account for that, too?

You're blaming your victim from running from the flood of arrows?  You were trying to kill him.  You weren't fast/good enough.  You failed.  Your draw;shoot;draw;shoot;draw;shoot wasn't good enough.  It was good enough to get four arrows in, so you need to get good enough that four arrows in quick succession can kill your target so you can successfully execute draw;shoot;draw;shoot;draw;shoot murders.  Everyone complains about spam-fleeing in the wilderness, but if the attackers aren't willing to do anything more than spam archery commands because "gosh, that's all I'm doing", then it seems like a pretty damned good idea to spam flee from anyone in the wilderness because "gosh, that's all I'm doing, getting the hell out of there".  If we all had to manually emote terrible suffering as soon as the first arrow hit, and the archer only has to pound in commands as fast as the code will allow, then archery becomes, in essence, a one-hit-kill skill.

Obviously, your goal was to turn the target into a corpse object.  That's all well and good.  A quick kill with no emotes can be good roleplay, and often it's the best roleplay.  I agree completely.  And I'm sure the "looting the corpse" roleplay you would have had, either alone or with your raiding partner would have been spectacularly fun, but you failed.  You just weren't good enough.  Oops.  It's too bad the whole situation looks more and more like a H&S style contest of skill levels and typing speed, but who is responsible for it reaching that lowest common denominator?

The argument here seems to be that -your- code echoes were enough, but -his- weren't.  If the code tacked on a "bleeding profusely and writing in pain" to every action that an injured character does, would you be happy then?  I mean, you were using EVERY coded advantage you had on your side, and since the code had some canned flavor text for you, you were set to go.  Your victim got off only some three virtually no-delay commands in the time you got off eight commands, at least half of which have significant delays (during which time you could have pretyped an emote or think, but apparently didn't).

I'm not defending your victim, not at all.  If I'd been in his place, I would have gladly squeezed out a suffering emote or two before the hail of arrows killed off my char.  I would have enjoyed it a great deal too.  I'm dying to get PKed, and I like making new characters.  However, I think the situation is not so clear cut as Me=super roleplayer/super archer; Victim=twink.

[Xamminy]

Oddly I can't remember...but can you even see emotes when watching another room?

You can see emotes, but I don't believe you can see says and that sorta shit.

Unless this has changed, you are incorrect Maybe42or54.  You can see coded actions, like someone standing.  You can not see someone 'em cries like a little girl with an arrow protruding from his chest.'

[Rhyden]

4254, I don't think anybody's really defined the word twink to you before, so here's a rough version for you:

A player who stretches the limit of code unrealistically in order to place themself(ves) at an advantage.

Watch who you call twinkish, 42, twinkish is more than shooting a few arrows at a victim, it is using the code, understanding the unrealism of what is being done. Stop pointing fingers as well, 42, if I was a critical person, I'd probably call you a twink from reading over your many perceptions of the game world, but I won't do that.

Joy, you bring up very good points, my character was played appropriately, the code was used appropriately on my side, but I'm hazy when I look at the victim's contribution. I'm not saying one is a better role-player than the other if there is such a thing, I'm just reminding everybody to look further than the code.

Armageddon isn't several words, numbers and commands. There aren't sdesc, ldescs, rooms, ooc, or even immortals. It is real. And since it is real, one is expected to use the code in order to determine the reality of this world and environment.
-Just a reminder to those who forget this fact.

[Rhyden]

-TWINK-

It sounds to me like you are a twink. Since you are, in effect, Forcing the guy to be hit square in the back of the head with an arrow from what, three screens away? Let's take an M-16. Maximum effective range is what, 1200 feet? And you shot the arrow from what, 2 or three leagues away? And let us say you were using the basic cheap arrows, a slender wooden flight arrow. I have been shot with a sharpened stick from a potatoe launcher in the shoulder. Hell -yes- it did hurt. But it didn't do any real damage.

4254, I think you saw this the wrong way. I wasn't calling you a twink. I was saying that this situation had twink to it. Sorry if you misunderstood, but that still doesn't mean you should just fire back insults with no reason, thanks.

[jhunter]

You can see coded actions, like someone standing. You can not see someone 'em cries like a little girl with an arrow protruding from his chest.'

That's what I had thought...wondering if it had changed or something.

So that would mean if you are using watch and don't see any emotes...don't assume that they aren't emoting.

[Maybe42or54]

Armageddon isn't several words, numbers and commands. There aren't sdesc, ldescs, rooms, ooc, or even immortals. It is real. And since it is real, one is expected to use the code in order to determine the reality of this world and environment.
-Just a reminder to those who forget this fact.

Wouldn't someone die to an arrow in the back of the head? Since they obviously didn't, the code says it wasn't a direct hit.
Powerplaying isn't twinking? That's a new one.
And I said I would, not that you are. That is, after all, the Imms job.
And I do believe saying that -your- arrow hit him as he rode away, in the back of the head, is powerthinking on your side.  :wink:

[Agent_137]

It would be awesome if people would stop using books and movies as references for realism.

[Maybe42or54]

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away. My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else. This is not spamming, spamming would be something like, hmmm...

Maybe that is all the attackee did?
Stood up, mounted and rode away. He let the code do what his character was doing, Why emote when it was already shown?

When your guy was thinking about only shooting the guy, did you "think I am going to kill this guy.
"think That was a hit if I ever saw one."
"think Oh shit. He's standing up."

Since that is probably a no, I wouldn't tell anyone to RP more if you didn't.
Instead you..
Shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
Shoot figure s
pull quiver

Do you alias pull quiver?

[jhunter]

The point is I think that -we- are supposed to rp out injures. If there was nothing done by the victim to display any effects from the injuries then the victim is at fault here.

There's nothing that says you must emote for a coded action that displays what you are doing already.

By what your saying Maybe, people aren't roleplaying if they don't do an additional emote for every one of their actions.
The code doesn't display any effects of injuries..that is left to the player to display.
The code does however show your actions when pulling an arrow from a quiver, taking aim, and shooting the arrow.
One can watch you and see that you are doing so. Unless you emote out effects from injuries..noone can see anything except that you -are- injured in some way.

They cannot tell exactly how you are injured...cannot tell if there are any side effects from your injuries...which 90% of the time there should be. There is alot more area on the side of the victim in this case which needs to be flushed out by the player of the victim.

And I know I've said this before...but it is still waaaaaayyy to easy for a lesser skilled person to flee from a far more skilled opponent.

[Maybe42or54]

My point is that, he should put more RP into it and enjoy it more then being disappointed about someone -else- not roleplaying.
And notice, I used "think"s in my last post, and didn't use emotes to show me shooting already?

The more Rp you put into it= The more Rp you should expect.
instead of
Put only coded actions into it= Expect the other to RP what happens.

[jhunter]

I understand what your saying. I was just saying that in some cases you have more of a responsiblity to display things that the code doesn't cover and accept that some things are covered by the code already.

[joyofdiscord]

Yeah, fair enough.  I just hope that, on the bright sunny day that I get raided by some bow-wielding longear, that when I emote staggering around with an arrow in my chest, my attacker will have the courtesy to emote how he's eyeing me along the length of his arrow shaft as he lines up the final shot.

[Rhyden]

What I'm saying here, Discord, is that my character was doing nothing other than whipping out arrows and firing away. My character wasn't thinking of anything else than shooting this guy. There was no need for emotes, because quite frankly, he wasn't -doing- anything else. This is not spamming, spamming would be something like, hmmm...

Maybe that is all the attackee did?
Stood up, mounted and rode away. He let the code do what his character was doing, Why emote when it was already shown?

When your guy was thinking about only shooting the guy, did you "think I am going to kill this guy.
"think That was a hit if I ever saw one."
"think Oh shit. He's standing up."

Since that is probably a no, I wouldn't tell anyone to RP more if you didn't.
Instead you..
Shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
shoot figure s
pull quiver
Shoot figure s
pull quiver

Do you alias pull quiver?

Nobody ever said I didn't emote anything, you guys just assumed that since I said I was doing nothing other than shooting at this victim. My memory is hazy, but I do believe inbetween a shot or two I placed a nice emote about aiming, pulling back the string, grunting, etc.

Thinking inbetween every shot would be rediculous and I don't think even you, Maybe, master of all RP would do so.

Code Select Expand

<shoot victim s
<think Good shot, self, think I'll take another
<pull quiver
<shoot victim s
<think Wow, another brilliant shot! Well done! Got him right in the shoulder!
<pull quiver
<shoot victim s
<think Man, I really stink, I should start cleaning myself more often, phew!
<pull quiver
<shoot victim s
<think Oh rats, the victim's jumped onto his mount and rode off, perhaps I shall run after and take another shoot at him...yes, good idea!

That was a little over-exaggerated but you know what I mean. Thinking is like a direct thought, something you pause to think about. When shooting a victim, I'm not going to think about it, just focus and do it. I'll probably place a nice emote to further express how I'm shooting, but nothing more.

As for aliasing pull quiver? I don't think that really matters. You can alias whatever the hell you want if it helps you, I don't really care, just means you have to remember more stuff and you also don't have to type as much.

Joy, if I ever make that raider, I'll be sure to give you several emotes, we could emote ten minutes before every coded action. Lol, wouldn't that be awesome?!?

[Maybe42or54]

Actually, if I was out to raid, I would:
Think Here we go again.
Pull quiver
Shoot figure s
think Feck yes!
pull quiver
shoot figure s (If it was a well placed hit)
think Mine all mine.


But then you two can actually use RP, which sounds like neither of you want to.

[Rhyden]

But then you two can actually use RP, which sounds like neither of you want to.

Assume makes an ass out of u and me, Maybe.

[joyofdiscord]

Joy, if I ever make that raider, I'll be sure to give you several emotes, we could emote ten minutes before every coded action. Lol, wouldn't that be awesome?!?

Oh criminy, I didn't say that.  Read what I wrote.  I said I hoped for -one- emote -after- them seeing that I had emoted.  I'm not going to respond further to this to avoid making a mess of this thread.

[Rhyden]

Joy, if I ever make that raider, I'll be sure to give you several emotes, we could emote ten minutes before every coded action. Lol, wouldn't that be awesome?!?

Oh criminy, I didn't say that.  Read what I wrote.  I said I hoped for -one- emote -after- them seeing that I had emoted.  I'm not going to respond further to this to avoid making a mess of this thread.

I was just jokingly saying that we should do that...

[Forest Junkie]

I'm going to give you some advice Rhyden, as someone who has attempting raiding in the past.

It's been said before, but I feel that this deserves some clarification:

1) It takes two to develop a fun scene when raiding. See below.

2) Do not ever assume that your victim is a twink and spam fleeing with no other thoughts or 'emotes'. You cannot read their mind, nor observe their full actions as an immortal could. Having this mentality will only hurt your roleplay, and cause it to degenerate into a "He won't emote so I'll just NEVER emote and kill everyone because I'm badass and they are all in the wrong." The minute you take on this mentality, you are in the wrong, and have become no better than the supposed "twink" whom fled you.

3) Offer your victim every chance in the world at roleplay. Attempt a warning shot, then run in and verbally threaten their life. Do everything in your power to make this event fun for both of you. This is a game, and we as players should extend courtesy, respect, and trust to our fellow gamers until that trust is broken.

4) Calm down, and take a breather. Believe me when I say that I understand the frustration you must feel at having lost your prey. Do not fret, because if you are cunning and patient, other opportunities will arise and offer themselves to you. The angrier you become ooc, the more brash your IC actions will become, thereby increasing the chances you are going to get smoked.

5) End point: Do not let this one scene discourage you. Take a deep breath, log out, and go watch a movie or read a book, something productive. The minute this game stops being fun is when you need to just quit and chill.

[Rhyden]

Thanks Forrest Junkie, that's really good advice.  

[Cenghiz]

1. You can't watch emotes for sure.
2. If you're hurling arrows from even one room away, the victim maybe thought you were a spam launcher and fled after the second arrow but maybe you were just typing fast.
3. I type real real fast when I'm panicked.. Maybe he typed 4 little emotes like ":winces in painm" ":looks back wincing":leans over ~kank"... etc..
I typed these with my full speed and they're too fast to type, nearly half a second.
4. This is not a MUSH.. If you're not good enough to kill codewise, don't kill. Don't ask other player to sit idle and type 'nosave'.
5. Please let's all suck it up.. With a lot more advantageous chars, I failed raiding. So to raid, you should have aliases set for twinks, too.. That's your responsibility. I'm bored of seeing "D00D!! He'z a twink! Immz fry'im!" posts.. At least wish up if you're sure it's twinking and in this case you're not (see 1 and 3). Every time I wished up politely about someone abusing codewise abilities, I was responded kindly by imms. I don't care if <bla> is twink or not. If I meet him in game, damn right I'll first kill/rob/rape him then I'll still write a note to the account about his twinkish act with a log+time attached.
6. [derailment][chill] MUDsex a lot so you can type faster. [/derailment][/chill]

Now can we again start discussing when it's approtiate to use desert sneak/hide? I was interested in the topic and was watching.

[proxie]

Why don't you try guarding the kank instead?

Cut off their speedy spam-flee escape.

Now... I've been guilty of the running away thing, the adrenaline kicks in and I am gone down the road. But, I usually stop a few squares away and look back over my shoulder, panting. If the person wasn't intending evil intentions, then they can shout, contact... or e (with hands held carefully at sides).

And if they ARE up to evil... a lone raider should always have a backup plan anyway, and so my spam flee might be right into their second trap.

FYI... corpses used to not always be safe and happy and free money. I think somebody wrote some sweetly vicious code that I wouldn't mind seeing back again, just to make that pc pause and check for tracks to see how long the corpse has been dead before automatically tugging out the plus 20 skinning knife o' doom.

The big thing about raiding... if I'm not stupid about it, I don't think I should be autogacked. I'm willing to rp it out.  I have -no- problem throwing down my valuables if there's a good chance I'm going to be left alive to be raided at a later date.

There was one big raider clan that was good about this, it was fun to raid and fun to be raided. My pc's who led groups that were raided always was firm about being smart when the thick figures with hooded masked cloaks showed up.  I don't know what the current big raiding policies are nowadays.

Sid and gear can be replaced... if you die because you won't turn over your beer money; you're looking at how long before you can find equally cool people to rp with?

--proxie

[Bestatte]

Two true Armageddon stories:

Once upon a time, I had a character who lived north somewhere. She was a rangerly type and liked to ride around the grasslands for shits and giggles. One day, she saw a "very tall figure" with a hood up to the north, two rooms away. She paused, looked again, and saw that he had come closer. Thinking maybe he was chasing a critter, she paused one more time, and he came into the room she was in. She ran away, without so much as a How Do Ya Do.

The player of the hooded figure happened to know who played my character, and sent me an IM asking why I would spam-run like that without even a single moment's pause or emote or grumble or look at the figure or nuttin.

I thought - and thought some more. And told him, "Because I didn't want my character to get killed." After some discussion, it dawned on me - if I really don't want my character to get killed, I probably shouldn't be riding around in the grasslands in the first place.

I apologized to the player for such a poor show, and told him if the opportunity ever arose again, I promised I would at LEAST let the other person know I'm not some kind of spam-bot.

Turns out, the opportunity presented itself shortly after that. And instead of spam-running, I looked at the figure - emoting that I was still at a safe distance, my hand firmly gripped on my weapon. The other character crouched, watching, emoting his gorgeous heart out that he was - at least to my character's perception, merely observing.

We both remained there, observing each other for a few moments, then nodded our heads to each other, and continued on our way.

It was truly a moment I won't forget - two strangers acknowledging each other's existence in the middle of nowhere.

If that player hadn't IMed me, I would probably have missed that moment. In fact, I am sure I would've missed it. I am extremely thankful to that player for pointing out to me that roleplaying *potential* conflict can be just as fun and immersive as anything else, no matter what the outcome is. Because, you never know WHAT that outcome will be, if you continue to run from the meeting.

[Maybe42or54]

Bestatte... I love you..

Rhyden, if you insist on "just shooting" plan on your attackee to "just run."

The faster you shoot the arrows, the more they think "Spam shooter" and I wouldn't even stay around for that even if I had a guy that went matrix every time he saw an arrow come at him.

[jhunter]

The faster you shoot the arrows, the more they think "Spam shooter" and I wouldn't even stay around for that even if I had a guy that went matrix every time he saw an arrow come at him.

I think this is sort of flawed. See, you shoot one arrow...wait...9 times out of 10 they still do the same thing they would have if you'd just started raining arrows on them.

At least if you start raining arrows on them, you really make them hurt.
I've seen this too many times to count. My pc will be leading others along...a single arrow flies in...and everyone around me bolts away suddenly with no emotes at all while I stay...look to see if I can discern where it's coming from and whatnot. Sure, I might actually get shot with the next one...but at least I can see and leave an avenue for some sort of rp.

shout Hold your fire!!!

shout What do you want?!

What your saying Maybe is that you want people to give you as much chance to escape as possible when the deck is stacked against the raider already.
It's much easier to flee than it is to keep someone from fleeing unrealistically, I know this...and on the side of the victim I will leave the opportunity open.

It is 90% the victim in my opinion.