The feud

[Anonymous]

I have noticed something. I was always under the impression that the north and the south hated eachother, that they were hostile. However, I nver see ANY resentment. I see southerners in tuluk, and i see northerners in Allanak. In teh north, many peopel cling to and take kindly to teh southerners. But when Someone goes and says something about them being from allanak, all the nmortherners Start up "don't judge them because they are from allanak!" blah blah blah! People! I mean cummon. I thought southerners were heathens, and the same for the northerners in the south. What happened to the feud?

[mansa]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=101581#101581

Read that thread.

[Savak]

Good question.

I see occasional icky comments one vs. the other, but little else.  I think some people are finding it difficult because the merchant Houses operate fairly openly & freely in both places, and people seem to think this is an easy thing.  But, as we all should know, nothing is easy in Zalanthas..except death.

[Anonymous]

You're telling me it's supposed to be a calmer point in history? So I am supposed to be neutral to southerners in Tuluk or northerners in allanak? Just look frmo the point of view that you can ALWAYS see the ruins of the old city from Tuluk now, and it seems to be a reminder of allanak's occupation. I even brought that up in the game. I don't understand how we are supposed
to be nice to southerners with things like that hanging around. (it's mostly southerners in Tuluk, for some reason not many northerners are in Allanak).

[mansa]

Seriously.

Read this thread:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=101581#101581

It has some stupid posts, and some very well thought out posts.  This is from last week.  This whole thread is the exact same one as that one, from last week.

Perhaps I should just copy and paste the 'best moments' of the thread, so it is easier for everybody to read...

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I agree entirely with the original poster, but I think the reason we don't see more 'Nakki-Tuluki hatred is because (of all things) our low playerbase.
Think about it. In game, you're supposed to hate:
-Anyone that isn't your race.
-Anyone that has magickal powers.
-Anyone from a different city-state.
-Anyone from a different culture (like a tribal, or a 'Rinther).
-Anyone that's just a general, all-round dickhead.
Now, there are about fifty players online at any one time. Statistically, you're supposed to be hating the vast majority of them. It gets annoying to be at odds with every single person you meet.
So, I figure most players begin to rationalize things for the sake of actualy having some friends. Such as, "Well, he may be a dirty 'Nakki, but at least he's a full-blooded human like me. And we're both hunters, so we've got that going" or "He might be a thieving, conniving longneck, but we're both hardluck 'Rinthers with a burning hatred for the Southside, so we can get along in that sense, at least."
Anyways, with more players to fill in the various cultures, factions, occupations, and races of the game, I believe we will see the amount of roleplayed racism, nationalism and hatred increase.
But for now, it's awful hard to hate that half-elf when he's the only other active PC around.

[Delirium]

I actually see a lot more hatred from southerners toward any outsiders than I ever see from northerners to southerners, even though the Tuluki were the ones occupied all those years...

I think one thing that may have something to do with this is that in the south, the Allanaki aren't shy about letting you know they don't like you. It takes little talent to start openly insulting someone and get into an argument with them. (No offense, but..)

While in the north, it's more likely to take the form of hidden barbs and sly insults and "offhand" comments and snickers behind the hand, and giving the offender the cold shoulder.. stuff like that. Not just walking up and picking a fight and throwing punches.

Tuluk is relatively new in the scheme of things and I think people just have a hard time figuring out how to play a northerner. The lines also tend to blur because of what Savak said - you see a lot of PCs from the "other" city because of the merchant houses, and that can make it difficult.

But it is my personal opinion that anyone who's saying the equivalent of "peace and love and equality for all" should have their characters undergo some incredible, mindlessly horrific torture until they snap and suddenly realize that Zalanthas Is Not A Pleasant Place To Be, And There Is No Room For Your Sodding Hippie Shit Here.

[X-D]

What Delirium said.

Also, We in the north tend to act friendly enough but then the southerner disappears.

I myself tend to play my northerns as more artful in everything, from insults to killing. In the north an artful assassination is respected.

If I play in the south I tend to play more openly brutal, perfectly willing to let others know that my char killed that guy or mugged, whatever. The south is more of a might is right place so one must display that might, wether it be combat prowess, money or station.

I know that many others play in like manner

[Cuusardo]

I would expect to see more blatant hatred in Allanak, but not in Tuluk.  It is the nature of the south to be blunt and to the point, where in the north people will use tact and subtlety.

Keep this in mind: For everyone in Tuluk who doesn't display a vehement hate of southerners, they more than likely have a good reason.  Perhaps they are planning to stab a particular southerner in the back or seriously screw him over in some way.  Maybe they have some use for the southerner and are going to milk him for all he is worth.  They might have a hit out on that southerner and don't want to give said southerner clues that he is pissed off at him.  It could be anything, really.

Just because someone says something does not necessarily make it true.   :wink:

[Anonymous]

It's because...
1) People are pussies and conflict means their character might not live to see 100 days.

2) Becoming a source of conflict/hatred makes you a target for too many PCs that are looking for something "real" they can take out. In other words, if you're a northern-hating southerner, even there's probably 1000s of VNPCs with that view, you're the PC that people can target and kill.

3) If you get too powerful and hate a certain group, prepare to learn the meaning of the term Deus ex Machina unless your hatred fits into the current plotlines.

[Agent_137]

It's likely both.

Some are roleplaying good tuluki's who are more sly about their hate.

Some are just bad roleplayers who haven't read the docs or don't give a shit.

Some have real good reasons to not dislike nakki's, like they've moved between the cities so much they just don't give a shit anymore.

[Xamminy]

3) If you get too powerful and hate a certain group, prepare to learn the meaning of the term Deus ex Machina unless your hatred fits into the current plotlines.

This sounds like an accusation.  Trust me though, AK, that anything that could be construed along these lines is never taken lightly and never has only one staff member involved.  Also, to be honest, anything that could be construed as 'deus ex machina' is part of a plotline, NOT in absence of a plotline.

[Bogre]

I have noticed something. I was always under the impression that the north and the south hated eachother, that they were hostile. However, I nver see ANY resentment. I see southerners in tuluk, and i see northerners in Allanak. In teh north, many peopel cling to and take kindly to teh southerners. But when Someone goes and says something about them being from allanak, all the nmortherners Start up "don't judge them because they are from allanak!" blah blah blah! People! I mean cummon. I thought southerners were heathens, and the same for the northerners in the south. What happened to the feud?

Funny. I talk bad about southerners and suspise them all the time, and I haven't seen any "OMG THEY ARE FRENDS". Maybe your character just is too loud about it, too brash, and maybe the other characters are trying to -help you stay outta trouble-.

[JollyGreenGiant]

There are hostilities.  Even overt ones.  This has been quite an interesting week.

[Anonymous]

Hey bogre, my point exactelly. It's not their job to, it's their job tro roleplay their characters the right way. They should have their own views, not worrying about keeping my character alive.

[Anonymous]

It doesnt say anywhere that you have to hate someone, or should hate someone, the helpfiles give reasons why you can hate someone.  But in a "harsh world" hating everyone you come across, would be contrary to what would happen in reality.  Most people would probably try to work together just to survive.  Most of the reasons for fighting is for food, or wealth, or power, not very often hate.  This is shown in our history, sometimes hate is used as an excuse, but the real reason is almost always one of the 3 reasons I gave.

[Agent_137]

BUT

Man is afraid of what he doesn't understand, often.

This can turn into hate.

[Anonymous]

It can, but surely you must realise that every, or even most Zalanthians dont "judge a book by its cover".  If they run into several people from another city, and they are all mean, then they might have reason to take that city.  But all it takes is to know one good person from the city or tribe, then most of the characters will have a different view.

And men dont hate things they dont understand, generally, they fear them, and fear does lead to hate in some cases, like magickers, and mindbenders.  But compared to those, other men from different tribes/cities/races dont seem so different from themselves, and that similarty, or even a union of a common hatred (like magickers) can bring them closer together.

[Anonymous]

*hate that city, not take, lol

[Agent_137]

I think you are also failing to consider upbringing.

If you are brought up, and everyone around you hates tulukis because templars hate tulukis because the highlord hates tulukis, then you're going to hate tulukis, at least on the outside.


I'm not saying you can't overcome this as a character. I've had characters that have, but i think you're also not looking at the idea that a prejudice makes life simpler and easier.

Giving everyone a chance is hard work. Especially in a world where it's easy to die, and most people have no compunction against taking you for all you're worth. You will identify with your community/family unit/friend base closely, and be suspicious or hateful of your neighbors. Look at early human civilization.

They do just that, depend on each other, and might reach out suspiciously to their neighbors. If the neighbors bite, it turns to hate. If the neighbors don't, it turns into a tentative trade relationship.

In Zalanthas, they bite.

[Kill4Free]

Well, in all the chars I've had, only one was shown hatred towards ((this was a long time ago) by some members of the legion I might add, who showed hatred towards the wrong other people and died because of it.  And that was mostly cause I was a half elf.

Upbringing does go into effect, but I bet that almost all of the chars we play have no normal upbringing, most probably resulted from the parents early death, or grew up the the streets.  The vnpc's might all be brought up to hate, but I doubt that the vast majority of the playerbase was brought up in a normal family (who followed the templars directives, and brought their children to hate).

Not to mention that not all races are hated,  or even most.  Most of their advantages, and can be respected, and are in fact used by both cities, templars, and nobles, for their various specific skills (the most probable exception to this would be half-elves, they generally are looked down upon by everyone).

[Agent_137]

Upbringing does go into effect, but I bet that almost all of the chars we play have no normal upbringing,

I hate to dominate this thread, but I always have something else to say, so damnit, i'm going to say it.


I don't think the vast majority of PCs should be abnormal from birth. Sure, you don't want to play the VNPC that sweeps the kadian shop all day, then goes home to sleep and eat, then sweeps some more, but you don't need an extraordinary upbringing to play your character.

In fact, none of my characters have had abnormal upbringings, and very few had any parents that were dead.

I'm not real keen on PCs that are the exception to the rule, espescially if I begin to see lots of them.

Most of their advantages, and can be respected, and are in fact used by both cities,

Use does not entail respect. Elves are good at stealing. Very few people are going to -respect- that, though they may hire one to steal something.
Magickers are used by Allanak, but they sure aren't respected.

I hate to see this game shift toward happy, accepting characters.

Code Select Expand

Murder. Corruption. Betryal.

If your character breaks the typical mode, have a good good reason for it. Also, it'd be nice to see less of these good good reasons built into the background.

So your character overcomes his prejudice against half-elves, wouldn't it be better if it happened in game where you could actually experience the reason? (or not experience the reason, and go on being prejudiced.)

Now, to be clear, I'm not advocating that every nakki' human HATE elves and half-elves and tulukis and go out of their way to screw them over at the first opportunity. But it's very poor following of the docs if you are merely nuetral or even friendly to these groups without strong reason.

Also, please bear in mind the difference between hate and prejudice. Prejudice may involve hatred, but they are far from the same thing.

I get the feeling now that we all really agree, even if we don't understand that we do.

[Kill4Free]

Generally, you dont hate someone you use, you make look down upon them as pawns, but you probably dont hate em.

And just because your characters had a normal upbringing doesnt mean everyones did, as I recall there was a post a while ago, with a vote on the chars background (sorry if I am really scetchy on that) but most of the people (who replied anyway) had some sort of weird thing happen to them when they were getting brought up.

Although only truly an Imm could answer that as they do
But a society that is brought up to hate everything, generally doesnt live long.

[Maybe42or54]

Personally, I am usually the son of a whore.
Lots of whores. A lotta kids they don't care about. Who cares what one is doing? My thoughts.

Alright. I agree with Agent.

[Kill4Free]

As for magickers that are used in Allanak, they are respected, and even valued, it is magickers that are hiding their ability that are hated, or feared.