Definition of powergaming

[Anonymous]

What is the definition of powergaming?

I always though it was doing unrealistic things to improve your skills, and doing things without emoting, is that right?

[mansa]

Help file time!

http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?powergaming

POWERGAMING     (Newbie)

Powergaming is a term often applied to players who we feel are not acting in the roleplaying spirit of the game. Examples include doing unrealistic things in order to improve your character's skills (wearing two shields into combat, trying to steal repeatedly from an NPC that has felt the attempt and is shouting 'Thief, thief!'), doing things that your character would not realistically do (elves riding mounts, failing to react to a sorcerer), using information gleaned
through OOC information or experience with a previous character,    or
abusing code bugs.

Generally, any action spammed for the purpose of improving a skill may lead to staff comments, race/guild options being removed from your account, modifications to your character's skill or, if repeated, possible banning from the game. We urge you to use think and emote to reflect your character's action and motivations.

See also:
   roleplaying

[Anonymous]

I read the helpfile, and I followed all of those rules, but I was still talked mailed by a member of staff.  Who didnt explain anything about any rule I was breaking (it was a new staff member).  Although I was doing everything in moderation, I was playing for like 8-10 hours a day, and the amount of time I spend RL playing might have made it seem like it.  Thats the best I can think of.

[ashyom]

If you don't understand why the staffer felt that you were powergaming, do feel free to email that staffer back and ask for an explaination.  CC the mud as always.
Ashyom

[Anonymous]

Already did

But whats a realistic way to hunt, I dont hunt for more then a day or two at a time tops, I rest all night, I dont go outta my way to kill animals I dont need, and I kill bout 5 animals a day tops. :/

[ashyom]

Keep in mind I don't know who/why/where/what.  But here's some tips on what I look for in a good rp ...

Do you use thinks?  
This helps us staffers figure out your character's motives.  Even just a think or two of, "I need at least two carrus so I can pay that feck his rent," is great.  Or some grumbles about how you can't find tracks, or jubiliation over getting laid twice! in one night...

Do you emote?  
We understand that it's hard to emote sometimes in combat due to adrenaline.  But what about afterwards?  Do you wipe your brow, take a breather, then bend down to skin the corpse?  Do you scan for dangers, or start prowling about for tracks?   Fuss over your cuts?  Pray that they don't get infected?

Or do you just look for animals, chase it down, hop off the kank/inix/whatever, attack it, skin it, hop back up on the mount and ride some more til you find the next one?  This isn't the greatest - keep in mind, I still don't know what exactly it is you did that prompted the comment, but I have seen this behavior from even some of the more experienced rp'ers. *Cough*  We staffers are not psychic, unfortunately, so a hunting trip that lacks emotes/thinks tends to, well, look kinda like powergaming.  This is true for any other type of adventures or activities in-game, also.

Try to look at this comment as not a scold, but rather as constructive criticism.  We want you to enjoy yourself, we want others to enjoy your rp, and make the world as rich and 'real' as possible.  The best way to do that is to provide feedbacks on how to improve.  Hope this helps you see our perspective.
Ashyom

[Anonymous]

I read your post, and did find it very helpful.

One thing I never do though is think, I just never really thought of it as a command that I should be using.


The thing that bothered me about the mail from the admin, is he said i was "blatantly spam-hunting" and I quite honestly feel that is incorrect.

But thanks for the advice, I will use thinking more often.

[Edited by Ashyom to remove IC portions]

[X-D]

What I often wonder is if anybody thinks there is a difference between "powergaming" And a char IC'ly working for more power?

What exactly is unrealistic practice? And is it taken on a char by char basis as it should be? I mean, if you have a dwarf who has the focus of become the best archer in the known world, it -would- be IC for him to live eat breath archery, practice or in some way work at it every waking minute of his life and even dream about it. And, that would apply to other races as well, to a lesser extent.

Also.

Do you use thinks?
This helps us staffers figure out your character's motives. Even just a think or two of, "I need at least two carrus so I can pay that feck his rent," is great. Or some grumbles about how you can't find tracks, or jubiliation over getting laid twice! in one night...

Some of us, specialy the ones who were around LONG before the think command or karma simply do not use the command, I've tried and well, I simply cannot do it, simply the idea that I -should- justify my chars actions to staff feels twinky to me. Then to actually do it...cringe. That and at times I simply do not want staff to know, though I trust most them, it is hard for anybody to seperate out what is basicly OOC information from IC play, wether intentional or not, and I -have- seen it happen. I know it is a staff tool and makes it so that they do not have to spend nearly as much time watching one char to figure out what they are up to, and so, it is good that it exists. But don't expect everybody to use it.


On emoting, as has so often been said, though it adds color to the world and many other things besides, emoting is NOT roleplay.  And some things, you simply are not going to emote out every single time..or at least I will not, if it is something that my char has to do alot and I'm pretty sure I'm the only PC about, I think 1 emote for every 3-4 actions is plenty.

I like that there is new staff though, and I take no offense at pretty much any comments, basicly being happy that anybody is paying attention at all, just keep in mind, my play style may be far from yours, as long as I am in the rules and being true to my char, please do not ask me to change my style to yours.

[Canadian Beaver]

I completely agree with everything X-D said. Especially the part about thinking. I recently received my account notes and spotted a few 'uses no thinks' in them. Makes me start to feel like I'm doing something wrong by not thinking. As far as I knew it wasn't mandatory that you use 'think'. It was an optional tool for us to use. Some of us just don't like using think.

[SRB]

I use think with all of my characters. It is an integral part to my experience, and really helps me flesh out the persona of each individual character.

With that said, I feel it should not[/u] be mandatory to actually use the command. It's not mandatory for us to use emote, therefore the same could be applied to 'think'. It is not there to be enforced. It is there to provide an option for players whom wish to expand their pc's unique personality.

Subpoints:

1) 'Think' is perfect for scheming characters whom are far more cerebral than physical. This aspect increases their self roleplay, and gives the staff a better idea of "who they are" since their action in physical terms pales in comparison to that of a buff warrior who smites all.

2) 'Think' can either be cast aside or used in a pc whose focus is single-minded. When I play characters such as these, I tend to keep my "thinks" clear, concise, and to the point. I use the command only when something pertinent to my current focus becomes obvious to myself and possible others who may be watching.

3) 'Think' is perfect for "clutter thoughts", or "junk". Random things that may have nothing whatsoever to do with your objective/destination/vendetta/quest.
ie Thinking about that fat juicy sand-beetle you just squashed on the bottom of your mocs.

Conclusion:

Think is wonderful for this game. I use it, as well as countless other players. Does that mean it has to be enforced? No. Should it be considered good play to use said command? Absolutely. Should it be considered bad play to use this command? Doubtful.

[Bestatte]

I rarely use think. One of my characters "thought" a lot. My current one only does so because I keep reading from the staff that we're supposed to. Personally I think (haha) it's silly. My character does what she thinks about, and thinks about what she does. The two are almost always the same, and doing both is usually redundant.

But hey - if they feel it's mandatory, I'll start tossing in a few "My farts smell strong today." and a bit of "Seven what? Unneeded. Red. Obsidian. Mate. Jozhal." for the hell of it. Because my character (like most people) doesn't really think in a conscious - decisive way. Thoughts are jumbled and often make no sense at all to anyone other than herself - and that's only when she happens to notice that she's doing it.

If that's what they want, sure. I'm game. I just hope I don't get any imm comments saying that my thoughts make no sense - unless they're complimenting me on "thinking" in a realistic manner.

[Lazloth]

I try to use it but..

Personally I think (haha) it's silly.

[Larrath]

Thinks are excellent tools.


Are you uncertain about something?

Maybe you're attempting to trick someone?

Want to tell that templar something but you just don't dare?

[Delirium]

Think's greatest use, IMHO, is to detail what your character wouldn't be saying out loud, but is (gasp) thinking to themselves. It's also useful for recalling memories of the past, mulling over recently important events, puzzling out how they're feeling about something or someone, etc, etc.

Me, I don't really think (no pun intended) about it any more - it's just sorta automatic to use the command whenever it seems appropriate.

[Anonymous]

My Definition is a person that has the code work before the emote. Obviously not wanting you to RP with them.

Example:

The hg soldier subdues you.
Despite your attempts to flee.

The templar points from the hg to you.

You later die.

[mansa]

My Definition is a person that has the code work before the emote. Obviously not wanting you to RP with them.

Example:

The hg soldier subdues you.
Despite your attempts to flee.

The templar points from the hg to you.

You later die.

Hey.  Strange.  That happened to someone yesterday, just as you say.

You forgot your beautiful emote:  

VICTIM frowns as TEMPLAR's guards magickly subdue THEM before TEMPLAR makes a gesture.

[Bestatte]

Amazing how anonymous kank knew - magickally - that the templar hadn't been in psionic contact with his soldiers the entire time..

And equally amazing how anonymous kank knew - magickally - that the soldiers didn't know their jobs well enough to subdue someone who had been told to go with their boss, and attempted to argue out of it.

I'd PM this - but you can't PM anonymous kanks.

[jstorrie]

I would say the most important reason to use thinks are that it's difficult to tell a character's motivations, even you watch them whenever they log in.  It may feel really, really obvious to you, the player, but characters can actually turn out to be pretty cryptic.

Along those lines - characters being cryptic - it can be tough to tell the difference between a spam-hunter and a very devoted hunter.  I would offer that taking the time to emote and think with your character will 'cap' him, sort of, since you'll spend half the time killing scrabs if you spend the other half thinking about and acting out the hunt, right?

I wouldn't worry to much, AK, about being unwelcome or getting a bad rap just because one of your early characters was a thinkless and emoteless hunter - nearly everyone plays one of those in their early days, I think.  I know my first (seriously played) character was one of those.  Don't feel too bad when you get some criticism, even if it's from an Imm and even if they sound pretty hostile.  They're just trying to make sure you don't fall into any bad habits.

And, to (finally) answer your question, powergaming is simply when you have your character do something that your character wouldn't really be motivated to do, just to improve them (and not necessarily skillwise - having a supposedly stupid, rash character who actually makes wise decisions because you, the player, doesn't want him to die could be considered powergaming, too).  Taking more time to think and emote will not only make sure immortals can know exactly whether you're powergaming or not - it will also serve as a check and balance so that you don't powergame without realizing it.

[Anonymous]

First off, I was talking about in general.

Using code before emoting what you are going to do when it comes to another pc.

For instance, seeing the HG coming at me, I coulda got up and fled, but no.
I could have waited and let him do it, Which was forced on me.
I could have attacked it.
I could have jumped at the templar.
I could have done many things.
Because of using code instead of emote, I and them were robbed of a potentially funner rp engagement.

[Vanth]

I don't *think* I was the imm who commented AK, but I have commented a couple of people recently (both positive and negative), so I will respond here.

I do not think that either emotes or thinks are strictly necessary, but, especially when you are performing actions that cause skill gains (hunting, crafting, etc.) they are helpful to us, and they also make us want to watch you, and that's not a bad thing.  We can help you out if there's a code glitch that affects you, or animate NPCs and add echoes that bring the world to life.

If you are performing repetitive skill-gain actions without any emotes, I will start to think you are a powergamer.  I do try to keep an open mind.  But where I personally draw the line is when you start disregarding the "realism" of the world around you: for example, spending all day crafting or hunting without rest OR emotes, or disregarding things like exhaustion or wounds.

I'm new on staff, but believe me when I say: we are not out to get you.  We would rather nudge you in the right direction than push you off a cliff.  For the most part, comments are just our way of communcating with you.  They are not necessarily a "red flag", unless you flagrantly continue in the behaviors we've said are inappropriate.

I have to say that with all the people I've watched since coming on staff, most of you are great.  You're doing fine and bringing the world to life every day.

(Disclaimer: the above are just my opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of other staff members.)

[mansa]

I'd like to say, I'm out to get you.

[jhunter]

I use think some of the time with my characters, but overall I pretty much agree completely with X-D.

[Anarchy]

For instance, seeing the HG coming at me, I coulda got up and fled, but no.
I could have waited....

When entering into a discussion, you need to look at both sides of the coin. Templars are players who have been given a great amount of trust from the staff, how do you know this templar just got sick and tired of people running away once he enters the room - he simple used the code against a criminal before he tossed in an emote. Just like the criminal used the code against the templar, by running away - without an emote, or under unrealistic conditions once the templar emoted sending giants after you. He still emoted? Didn't he? I dont understand the complaint - templar sent guards after criminal - they managed to grab you before you could run away, jump at the templar, etc.

[Anonymous]

It's been said, but I mostly use the think command when I am doing or saying something that is not representative of how my PC feels.  Such as talking nicely to someone my PC hates, doing something my PC hates doing, acting cool when my PC is nervous.  I also, when I think it's appropriate, try to let some of my PC's inner feelings bleed through in tell-tale emotes.

The only other times I've used think a lot that I can recall is when I play a magicker it's sort of fun to let the think narratives fly and see what sort of conclusions the magicker reaches about magick.

[Agent_137]

I always feel cheesed if some one does a critical code action (i.e. picking up a disarmed weapon) before they emote doing it.

So, I always try to emote first, even if it's a quick one.

I try to have leave the emote questionable about the outcome, and then let the code finish it, even if I -know- the outcome.

The fugly dude ducks away from the slashing swords, reaching for his spear.
The fugly dude pick up a spear.


I like thinks. Did I say this already? It helps me flesh out my character in my head, more than anything else.

Aight. Cool. Later.