Gemmed interaction - a wake up call.

[Akaramu]

I'm sure this will provoke another long follow-up of semi-flames, but I just have to say it. Recently, observing the interaction of non-gemmed players with gemmed in taverns makes me want to hit my keyboard with my head. The same goes for gemmed-gemmed, it all looks like YO buddy whats your element? Cool lets go have a drink.

Where are the commoners who hate gemmed or at least show some tension or signs of fear around them? From what I have seen, almost everyone befriended them, and was casually chatting at the same table. There were at MOST two PCs I have seen who changed table or expressed disgust or anxiety in any way. I dont doubt some of you have IC reason to get along with gemmed. But... EVERYONE? It sets a bad example for new players. Allanak is starting to look like Tuluk, except that magickers appear to be everyone's buddy.

This even went to the point where a group of people left the city with a magicker to look at what he could do as if it was some sort of entertainment show. For Krath's sake, come to your senses. (This is not aimed at anyone in particular).

I also would like to see more obvious tension among the elements. Where is the Krathi who hates all Drovians? Where is the Vivaduan snorting at the Krathi? Are you all some sort of happy, friendly hippie community now? It looks like love, peace and a bit of magic. There have of course been exceptions, but they were very few that I have seen, and they should be apparent. Its Allanak darnit.

I am getting to the point where I almost hope Halaster will kill everyone in Allanak so it will maybe stop looking like Tuluk with the new wave of fresh PCs.

*insert pained sigh here*

-The person who once rushed out of a tavern and went hide in a dark alleyway because a gemmed tried to talk to her.

[Delirium]

Let me start of by saying I agree.

BUT...

There has to be a balance. People just don't seem to know how to keep up sustained interaction with one another unless it's in a friendly manner, heh. I'd like to see more hating, more wary bartering between people that don't necessarily like each other but can make use of each other (gemmed, elves, etc etc), more open sneering at someone's back, more arguing, more insulting, more brawling... that DOESN'T result in players A or B suddenly being marked for death.

That goes for gemmeds but also for almost everywhere in game as well.

[Armaddict]

I guarantee you're talking about my character in at least one case.

Let me remind you, you have no idea why.  But it is part of the character.  Try -talking- to someone about it in game to find out, instead of making an assumption and posting on the GDB?

[ashyom]

In a way, I agree.
Looking at it from new players' POV.  I think a part of the problem - not the whole - is that there are a few PCs who want to play the exception to the rule.  That's fine in itself as long as it's done sparingly, but some of these said PCs tend to play long sessions, and they have higher visibility impact because they're, well, -there-.  The new players see these PCs and emulate them because they're -there- all the time, and they don't see the other, 'normal' (and more correct) RP.  Not to mention, new players often don't understand why there are so many nasty people and someone has to help the poor <insert victim>.   :roll:

I personally see some of victimizing going on, but I get advantages ya'all don't.  Some PCs will say, "Oh, that's a good idea.  Let's shake on it." while thinking, "Ugh!  Gross!  I have to touch him!  Sands! I'm so buying water to wash my hand.  If my fingers fall off, I'll bribe that soldier, Joebob, near my shack to beat him up."

Some players will decide it's better to not piss off that nasty magicker cause you don't know what exactly they're capable of.  Which reminds me, superstitions are sadly an underused aspect in the game.  But I digress.  

In general, I will agree that there are a lot more pussyfooting around than I remember; increasingly number of players are more careful and perhaps even afraid of losing their characters, so they tend to not be as gritty as they could be.
-Ashyom the Pensive.

[sjanimal]

I hadn't really thought about it.

That definitely raises a good point.

And before you say that Allanak is too soft, keep in mind I've been robbed there four times in the past IRL week.  LOL  It's definitely not soft.

[Akaramu]

Its not Allanak being too soft.

Its the roleplay with / around gemmed that really bothers me. I see long periods of friendly tavern sitting and buddy chat with many different ungemmed PCs. The difference between 'darn I have to trade with him I better be polite and get out afterwards' and 'Hey Drovian bud, how have you been? Come, finish this bottle with me' should be visible. But all I really see is lots and lots and lots of befriending and bunnyhugging all kinds of gemmed.

Some of my friends are very dissatisfied with the current situation as well. I've had plenty of Allanak based characters in 8 months of playing. Recently it just feels, and looks, very wrong.

Halaster, do something! Please!  :wink:

[Armaddict]

Get pissed at the character IC, then.

[Akaramu]

Get pissed at the character IC, then.

Cant comment here, too IC.  :wink:

[Xygax]

Armaddict's suggestion is a good one.  If you don't like how people are playing, provide a better example.  People who trust magickers probably aren't to be trusted either.

[Forest Junkie]

Armaddict's suggestion is a good one.  If you don't like how people are playing, provide a better example.  People who trust magickers probably aren't to be trusted either.

Agreed, Armaddict and Xygax.

[Gaare]

It is raining magikker!!

   I sometimes see four gemmers in a tavern with two citizen PCs... so I think it is hard to expect from a newbie to behave appropriately...

I think there must a be strict limit for number of magikkers.

[Armaddict]

Just wanted to clear something up, I'm -not- disagreeing with Akamaru on this point.  I've seen what they're talking about, as well.

I was just saying that my character, and this doesn't happen often at all, is playing a sort of exception.  If you'd talk to him about it, you'd find out why, though probably still disagree with his point of view.

People -are- being too friendly.  If you see someone else around you buddying up with a magicker, don't be afraid to show some disdain, or even openly slam them.  One of the beauties of this game is that through a subtle, or not so subtle reaction to other's actions, you can affect the mood of their situation.  Thus, perhaps even affect the outcome.

Stop being so nice in allanak, people!  *shakes a fist*

[Akaramu]

As much as I would like to display a better example, I really cant with my current PC. I'm not one of those exceptions, I simply cant for reasons I will not get into. My cheers to everyone else who can and will do it.

p.s. To a certain southern militia person... you rule. I love you.

[Stroker]

I -do- provide a better example in-game. I completely agree with Akaramu... jeez. I can see one outcast befriending a magicker.... but every damn pc? That's just ridiculous. Mock them! Humiliate them! Shun them! It's WAY more fun. Come on people!

[Teleri]

I'd like to see quite a bit more hatred between the opposing elements, myself.  To me, it only makes sense that a magicker of the water element should loathe that of the fire element, for they draw upon opposing planes for power.  If one is too numerous, the other will suffer, or at least maybe they think.  

In general, it would be very pleasing to see more open antipathy between all characters who have reasons to be mad at someone.  Argue, wave weapons threateningly, brawl, sneer, and verbally jab.  It makes for a more interesting and productive experience rather than one person insulting someone once and then getting killed the next instant.  Far more harm can be done to somebody than by merely killing them, and bearing that in mind will bring more enjoyment for all involved in any altercations.  Of course, it may escalate to the point of killing anyway, but at least there was some more fun to be had in any delaying of action.

[Armaddict]

Agreed with Teleri.  Something I've -always- wanted to see.

Even in the helpfiles, it talks about distrust between certain elements, such as Drov and Suk-krath.  Hell, even some inter-magicker troubles would be nice.  Then they wouldn't have to depend on the rest of the populace so much for their conflicts.  The elementalists quarter, could, in all essence, become a sort of sub-city.  One where most elementalists wouldn't have to leave it.

Which would be coooool.  Heh.

[Agent_137]

Good posts by everyone. I agree.

[sheep]

I fully agree with Akaramu. People are getting way too comfortable with magickers in Allanak; especially after that fairly recent RPT session. I personally would like to see fewer magickers overall, at least until there is a larger playerbase.

[Xygax]

Incidentally, if you find someone's RP along these lines to be utterly egregious, e-mail feedback to the mud@ account.  If it is correct, useful and constructive, it may be forwarded.

[sjanimal]

Armaddict and Xygax,

Although I usually find myself agreeing with both of you, in this instance I really feel it important to politely disagree.

For example, the other day I was playing a hard-working, laborer old man in Allanak.  How did this guy get to be old?  Mostly by being friendly, not talking to strangers and minding his own business.  He wasn't too chummy with anyone or a sissy or anything, he just believed in staying out of trouble.
This character observed some SERIOUSLY innapropriate behavior on the part of a few PCs.  When I told someone about it, they snapped at me DEAL WITH IT IC.

What would have been more in character?  To pk the both of them (boy, was I tempted) or to just stay in character and do what my character always does around suspicious people...that is to ignore them.  And that's what I did, but it didn't make the point.

Let's be honest.  Many of our characters are not law enforcement.  They're not role-play inforcement, either.  I think if the players see something they something they consider GROSSLY (not mildly) innapropriate, then they should report it in a polite and discreet fashion.  I think the staff should respond with "Okay, I''m busy but I'll try to look into it if I have time."

If complaints build up against someone, then an IMM should use a couple of shadowy thugs to contact the person, interrogate her, beat her up and tell her she has two days to leave town.  It shouldn't be often necessary, but it should be a really cool way to make the point, and more importantly it should contribute to game atmosphere.  Game atmosphere is really what I'm trying to preserve here.

Thanks for reading this.

-sjanimal

[sjanimal]

Xygax

Didn't see your last post,

=-)

-sjanimal

[Xygax]

Even though you just posted a follow-up, I'd like to say that "deal with it IC" allows you a much broader range of roleplay choices than "PK" or "ignore."  I'd very much like to see people (in general, not just with magickers) make subtler choices about how they react to things like this...  even if your response is only relayed through "thinks"....  but better still, how about some uncomfortable shifting...  stuttering...  narrowed eyes...  nervous ticks, active avoidance? (ie. get up and leave the room), secretive plotting (even if nothing comes of it...  even if nothing -could- ever come of it, you might still get some friends together and talk about how much you'd like to lynch a magicker).  Even if you choose to be friendly, you can make it clear that your attitude is false (even if your character wouldn't mean to reveal such things)...  and that would be stellar RP.

You have a lot of options, even if your character is ancient, and the very last option you choose should be mailing the account.  As I said above, the "offense" should be (or at least seem) major...  You may not understand every aspect of the situation between the people you're watching (or even between the people you interact with and yourself...  the whole situation is usually never entirely clear).

[Koala]

Just leave people alone and allow them to RP whichever way they like to play... If something disturbs you, find a solution ICly, if that needs to be e-mailed to mud account, then e-mail it.. That is the way I deal with it...

Please don't take this an offensive argument, this is just the way I think and it doesn't aim anyone..

[Xygax]

Koala:  I generally agree, and I'm the last person to advocate the "RP police."  But I think constructive criticism can be useful.  More than that, I think discussion on this board of what is appropriate RP often gives people a better idea of how the environment of the game is intended to work.

[Koala]

Koala:  I generally agree, and I'm the last person to advocate the "RP police."  But I think constructive criticism can be useful.  More than that, I think discussion on this board of what is appropriate RP often gives people a better idea of how the environment of the game is intended to work.

Yes, Xygax, I also like to see appropriate RP examples and they are really good most of the time but sometimes I don't feel comfortable when people start telling me what to do..