Let's restrict banking services

Started by Brytta LĂ©ofa, October 12, 2014, 12:56:07 AM

Quote from: X-D on October 15, 2014, 03:20:42 PM
QuoteA very, very simple proposal: make Nenyuk refuse to handle account balances of less than 5000 sid.  Poorer people have to carry all their money with them.

Any downside?


Downside is simple. People will simply grind that first 5k out soon as they can  then grind out the next 5k so they have 5k to work with...essentially changing nothing.

Probably, I agree.  On only a slightly related note: Has the idea of random bank robberies ever been sussed?  Randomly wipe out accounts, individual or across the board.  Account errors not in your favor.  Corruption in the bank.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

I think we've had some discussions about allowing PCs to try to rob banks, it's kind of one of those things where it's really hard to implement and balance the appropriate virtual/NPC response to what players can realistically muster.

Nothing's stopping a pickpocket from posting themself near a bank and taking a little off the top of every withdrawal or deposit.
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Quote from: Harmless on October 15, 2014, 05:34:51 PM
Nothing's stopping a pickpocket from posting themself near a bank and taking a little off the top of every withdrawal or deposit.

It's like my #1 hobby on Armageddon and 90% of why I play pickpockets.
"When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse's feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back."

Quote from: Nyr on October 15, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Nyr,

This all is great. Thank you for sharing information about how staff is working on things like this. Is it possible for you or another member of staff to keep us up-to-date as things progress?
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Quote from: slvrmoontiger on October 15, 2014, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: Nyr on October 15, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Nyr,

This all is great. Thank you for sharing information about how staff is working on things like this. Is it possible for you or another member of staff to keep us up-to-date as things progress?

Yes, when it's done you'll see it.
Quote from: LauraMars on December 15, 2016, 08:17:36 PMPaint on a mustache and be a dude for a day. Stuff some melons down my shirt, cinch up a corset and pass as a girl.

With appropriate roleplay of course.

I'm worried about no longer being able to call money sid.
Varak:You tell the mangy, pointy-eared gortok, in sirihish: "What, girl? You say the sorceror-king has fallen down the well?"
Ghardoan:A pitiful voice rises from the well below, "I've fallen and I can't get up..."

Yes but maybe we will call them nugs.

1000 nugs.

Egads, I hope it's still obsidian.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

You can probably still call it sid, even if it isn't obsidian anymore.

Kinda like how we call a dollar a buck, even though the colonial leather trade which spawned the colloquialism hasn't been around in over a hundred years.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."

Or how Zalanthans themselves still refer to activities such as "kanking", even though almost nobody still alive today would have seen a living kank!
Quote from: RockScissors are fine.  Please nerf paper.

Alright. I'm good then :)
Varak:You tell the mangy, pointy-eared gortok, in sirihish: "What, girl? You say the sorceror-king has fallen down the well?"
Ghardoan:A pitiful voice rises from the well below, "I've fallen and I can't get up..."

I'm gonna start calling them nugs anyways.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Quote from: Nyr on October 15, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Look at you. You saucy minx. Making me all hot and bothered.  :-*
Quote from: James de Monet on April 09, 2015, 01:54:57 AM
My phone now autocorrects "damn" to Dman.
Quote from: deathkamon on November 14, 2015, 12:29:56 AM
The young daughter has been filled.

Quote from: nauta on October 12, 2014, 01:03:08 PM
Anyway, reasons in support of Op's idea (I will almost certainly back down on each and every one of them, but just some thoughts):

1. It is -really- hard to remain poor.  Even a rinther who never leaves the rinth can amass a fortune pretty quickly and pretty easily.  It is even more crazy for hunters.  Of course, you might just say: junk your coins, or, you don't have to use the bank!  Well, sure, I guess, but boy is it tempting if it is there.  (In a way, the analogy here would be the new 'fire' ingredient for cooking: you could cook without a fire but now [or soonish] you have to.)

(emphasis added)

I'm way late on this comment, but I don't think that's true as stated (especially if we're considering <5000 to be what we call "poor"). It depends on things like clanned vs. independent, play style, kind of role, and so on. I've definitely had long-lived characters who never had as much as 5000 coins, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. And it wasn't that I had to do anything special to avoid accumulating much money. With clanned characters often it's a matter of: Do I really care how many excess coins I have? Are my needs being met? Do I have better things to do?

That's why I wouldn't enjoy the OP's idea. Similar to X-D's comment, my feeling is that this would just encourage me to grind up coins, which otherwise I have little desire to do, typically. It strikes me as being almost like the financial equivalent of how newbie contact or newbie ride used to work.
So if you're tired of the same old story
Oh, turn some pages. - "Roll with the Changes," REO Speedwagon

October 18, 2014, 06:29:09 PM #63 Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 06:45:05 PM by Fujikoma
Some PCs can't even -lift- three large, much less five. I find this rediculous and punishing to people who end up with a bad stat roll, unless the weight of currency is changed dramatically. It would be impossible to ever open an account. Also, if you don't like your money, find some IC reason to give it to someone who does, or leave it hanging out for them to take. Bribe a Templar today.

EDIT: Also, some races are unable to join -any- clans. If you leave them no choice, you will further be providing reason -not- to even attempt to play what some already call an unplayable race. Think about this with your indies rants. There's really not that many running around, and the ones that are still need the support of other PCs and groups, or else. I also agree with X-D, this will do nothing but promote further coin grinding. You don't want the coin, the solution is simple, and requires no changing of the code. Adjust your playstyle to suit what you want to play.

2nd edit: FURTHER, the longer other players spend having to grind to accomplish their goals, the less time they spend interacting with your PC. I don't want to undergo additional punishment by being unable to meaningfully interact with your PCs because I had to grind a fuckton more just to have a few words with your PC. Think about that when you're sitting alone, you type "who", and wonder where all those defilers are having that orgy.
Quote from: Nyr
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Quote from: bcw81
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~Tektolnes to Thrain Ironsword

October 19, 2014, 02:13:42 AM #64 Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 06:29:05 AM by X-D
I never even understand why this topic even comes up...I personally do not have a pony in this race. Because, most my PCs just make money as needed, so, bank, means nothing, and the others, well, if I want 100k coins then my PC will make it, again, bank changes mean nothing. On the other side, least the merchants will be bored since nobody will have sid to throw away.

Course that means all prices will have to come down since people will not have that  2k just laying about to toss at the pretty sword.

And people will not order stuff, What, it will be a RL month, Shit, I am not carrying 3k around for that long, what do you have on hand right now for 200?
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

I've been watching this thread and there are lots of good points on both sides.

One thing to keep in mind is the mantra "playability is sacred".

The other thing to keep in mind is that the simple banking system we have is clearly an abstraction, a prop to be roleplayed around and not necessarily with.  Virtually there might be other ways to store and hide wealth (your mattress, a hidden hatch in your apartment, your friend's cousin who does that kind of stuff, investing in a merchant's budding business, a buried chest in the desert, etc.) beyond just the 'withdraw'/'deposit' commands.  If banking were to be altered in this single but significant (and interesting) way, it would demand these "virtual" aspects be addressed and fleshed out.
The neat, clean-shaven man sends you a telepathic message:
     "I tried hairy...Im sorry"

It's not interesting. It's an inconvenience for the independent guys who don't have hide, don't want to leave their cash in an unsafe location, and...

Wait...

Quoted from Nyr...
QuoteICly, I mean.  OOCly you have support from independent staff.

... Confirmed banks will require 5,000 coin deposit.

Quote from: Saellyn on October 19, 2014, 04:33:28 AM
It's not interesting. It's an inconvenience for the independent guys who don't have hide, don't want to leave their cash in an unsafe location, and...

Wait...

Quoted from Nyr...
QuoteICly, I mean.  OOCly you have support from independent staff.

... Confirmed banks will require 5,000 coin deposit.

And, you didn't read a word I said, did you? Die in a fire.
Quote from: Nyr
Dead elves can ride wheeled ladders just fine.
Quote from: bcw81
"You can never have your mountainhome because you can't grow a beard."
~Tektolnes to Thrain Ironsword

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Quote from: Lizzie on October 19, 2014, 08:33:26 AM
Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47006.0.html

QuoteA female voice says, in sirihish:
     "] yer a wizard, oashi"

Quote from: Lizzie on October 19, 2014, 08:33:26 AM
Another place to stash coins: in your apartment.

That's true. Although in the context of the 5000 coin minimum suggestion, if I were trying to get beyond that 'newbie banking' milestone, I'm not sure I'd want to spend money on rent. Maybe encumbrance would make that unavoidable though. Ah, that's how Nenyuk gets you. You're so loaded down with the coins they don't want, that you have to give them some of that unwanted sid in rent.

Which does bring another point to mind. Is Nenyuk really going to turn up their noses at 4 large, while renting apartments for which 4 large gets you around six years of rent?
So if you're tired of the same old story
Oh, turn some pages. - "Roll with the Changes," REO Speedwagon

Quote from: bcw81 on October 19, 2014, 08:40:31 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on October 19, 2014, 08:33:26 AM
Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47006.0.html

Yes but if you read that post:
Quote
...[snip]
Key aspects of this feature:
PCs can bury items in a room, creating / adding to an artifact cache.  This is of course based on sector type, as you cannot bury things inside buildings and city streets, etc.
...[snip]

That's why I'm suggesting it become a thing. Since currently, it isn't a thing :)
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

I still don't see a solid argument for making a 5000 coins banking minimum. It seems like an arbitrary concept.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done -- So therefore you may never know a life of peace."

~Jack Vance~

Quote from: Reiloth on October 19, 2014, 01:51:14 PM
I still don't see a solid argument for making a 5000 coins banking minimum. It seems like an arbitrary concept.

Never thought I'd find myself agreeing with you, but I do here. Fees I can kind of, kind of understand, however, Nenyuk still gets all the coins in the end. I wonder how many hundred large of mine they have stacked up in a giant stone silo somewhere. Still, fees would make more sense, a lot more, in terms of corrupt money gathering.

Here's a concept, instead of having a minimum deposit of five large, have a minimum balance of five large, that if you go under it, causes a slow stream of small penalties, until the error is corrected, or you hit zero... still, it could be something less punishing, like two thousand coins. Have a transfer fee for converting currencies between city currencies, so you can still get your money out, but you're going to lose a small fragment of it, unless you withdraw it at the bank you deposited it at. I realize all of this would be complicated, and likely not worth the time and effort to code, but I'm just tossing ideas out there.
Quote from: Nyr
Dead elves can ride wheeled ladders just fine.
Quote from: bcw81
"You can never have your mountainhome because you can't grow a beard."
~Tektolnes to Thrain Ironsword

I would really just like to see you have to go to the bank you deposited your money at to get it, really, rather than anything else. If you deposited it in Allanak, you can't draw it out in Tuluk. Plain and simple, and creates plots and mini-events around the transportation of money.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

Quote from: Ami on November 23, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


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