Let's restrict banking services

[Brytta Léofa]

A very, very simple proposal: make Nenyuk refuse to handle account balances of less than 5000 sid.  Poorer people have to carry all their money with them.

Any downside?

> withdraw 50
The banker says to you, in sirihish,
  "I'm sorry, but that would bring your balance below our minimum of 5000 obsidian. You may withdraw your entire balance if you like."
> withdraw 5049
The banker gives you 5059 coins.
> deposit 300
The banker says to you, in sirihish,
  "I'm sorry, but we require a minimum balance of 5000 obsidian."

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm for it. But it also made me wonder how many people who are like me and never really use the bank.

[QuillDipper]

I try to use it as little as possible, just because I want whoever PKs me to get that elated feeling I get when I find coin on a body.

[cnemus]

I do not really like the idea of banking only for the rich.

Banks make more money off of the throngs of poor people that utilize their services and seems to me Nenyuk would get its largest windfall from the derelict accounts of the dead (which they pay a tax to the cities on, if I understand it right). Why would they limit their profits, why would the cities care to enforce such a regulation? Extortionate fees or something to that effect to penalize poor people even further sounds more like something they would do.

From an individual perspective 5,000 may seem like a lot, but to a banker, 5,000 people each depositing 5 is the prettier picture. From a character perspective, it seems most of the poor masses live hand-to-mouth, the folks that have a small to barter with are the rich people. The only contribution to the world I would see this having is giving thieves more opportunity to steal sid, but isn't their a weight issue to consider? How much does 5,000 sid weigh?

[solera]

The only contribution to the world I would see this having is giving thieves more opportunity to steal sid, but isn't their a weight issue to consider? How much does 5,000 sid weigh?

Much too much.  One or two Large  ( I can't remember which) was too heavy for my olds and my kids.
I have always like the 'rinth for having no banks. One of my PC's converted sids into spice , because Favour was the real currency. The other used her boss as a banker.

The best thing about this idea, is that Nenyuk doesn't get it. Ginka might, but there's a chance  it will be recycled by  PC bro's.

I would  love joint accounts.

[Reiloth]

too much like RL

I have enough minimum account balances, thanks.

[MeTekillot]

No, they should just tax you if you don't have 5000 coins, just like RL :^)

[wizturbo]

5,000 sid is supposed to be a lot of money.  That's many years worth of rent at Nenyuki apartments.   That's like modern day banks saying the minimum balance you can have is $50,000.

Also, from a game play stand point, it won't achieve the results you're trying to get.  People won't start carrying around all their coins, it just means they'll hoard coins until they get 5000 so they can start using the bank.   Instead of buying stuff and moving that coin through the economy, this arbitrary requirement to hoard up to 5k first will kick in.

[flurry]

I'm not seeing the upside.

Downsides:
Encumbrance
Awkward for new players
Possibly would encourage some people to prey on newbies for OOC reasons
Disproportionately affects clanned characters
Encourages more obsession with hoarding money at the expense of role-play

[Spoon]

I think it would be better the other way around, have a limit of 5000 or even less.

Then rich people have to hire people to carry/guard their money when the travel, caravan style. I always thought the ease of hoarding money with Nenyuk only damages the game's harsh vibe.

[Barsook]

I don't dig this.

[DustMight]

I love this.
I'm in favor of limiting the bank's services in many ways including some of these ways:

1. minimum balances are interesting
2. only clan accounts
3. requiring clan membership
4. not transferring balances between cities

The upside being that there is then more free coin around for people to snatch and also it seems more in keeping
with the feel of a low-fantasy setting - if indeed that is what we have here.

If my PC must travel to another town to do business, I might hire a guard.  But if everyone knows that people travel with
large amounts of coin for business, suddenly my PC will be more inclined to hire guards, join a caravan etc.

[Voular]

Oh get out of here with this. Let us make Arm even more annoying by adding another bar for players to jump over. The banking system is fine, it is optional and non-intrusive. Having less coins just floating around in the world actually helps, and the death of a super rich character doesn't start a crazy inflation. Which I think is the real purpose with the banks. There's also to many IC reasons for the bank to never change, so this is a moot point.

[Molten Heart]

Why?  What purpose would a minimal balance serve?

[The Lonely Hunter]

I think a tax is more in line. Consider how Nenyuk makes a lot of their money.

[Lizzie]

I think a tax is more in line. Consider how Nenyuk makes a lot of their money.

I could totally get behind fees. A usage fee, to be precise. 100 sids for every 2000 coins you keep in the account, averaged over a month's time, rounded up to the nearest 2000.

So if your average bank balance is 2001 sids - then 200 sids gets withdrawn from your account monthly til that average goes back down again.

[nauta]

I know this is a hornet's nest, but I'm +1 on the OP's idea here.  

Anyway, reasons in support of Op's idea (I will almost certainly back down on each and every one of them, but just some thoughts):

1. It is -really- hard to remain poor.  Even a rinther who never leaves the rinth can amass a fortune pretty quickly and pretty easily.  It is even more crazy for hunters.  Of course, you might just say: junk your coins, or, you don't have to use the bank!  Well, sure, I guess, but boy is it tempting if it is there.  (In a way, the analogy here would be the new 'fire' ingredient for cooking: you could cook without a fire but now [or soonish] you have to.)

2. As to the IC/realism argument (to wit: why would Nenyuk do this?), there can be a lot of answers.  

(a) Historically, bankers haven't been as laissez faire capitalist as we are nowadays, but rather had hugely arbitrary/racist/elitist restrictions.  (Remember usury?)

(b)  Small accounts mean paperwork or whatever.  Whatever Nenyuk can get out of the gamble on PC deaths has to be tiny compared to what they make off the big accounts and favors for keeping those accounts safe.  [I also don't know why Nenyuk doesn't charge interest or at least a cost for its service, but, meh.]  

(c) Nenyuk is ultimately responsive to the real powers (Tek and that other guy) who can put arbitrary demands on how it banks, demands meant to keep the people under their control (just like anti-literacy).

3. Playability.  

(a) Crime. It's so annoying to mug someone and only get 12 coins, then go to their apartment, loot it, and only get another 2, if any  

(b) Worry.  When you leave coins out (at your apartment or on your person), you worry about it, you check on it, you set up clever ways to hide it.  You might even distribute it with friends, turn it into other raw goods, etc.  It just keeps things moving in a way that a bank account keeps things static.

(c) As to the making-it-harder-on-newbies argument, I don't get it.  I want the world to be hard, both virtually and codedly if possible - if I'm playing a common grebber/indy, I want to get screwed over.  If I wanted it easier, I'd get a froo-froo job in a merchant house or as an aide or whatever.  Of course, some probably want the rags to riches story (rather than rags to rags): I don't see why the suggestion would stop that, it would just make it take a little longer than 1RL week bashing scrab and selling the parts, and glasshacking to obtain.  If that.

(d) Hoarding: at least the hoard will be accessible to thieves.

Dunno, over-all it makes a lot of sense for my grebber and especially my rat to not be able to go into the bank.  (In fact, I used to think rats would get ganked for entering the bank... hehe.)

One final point: Coins are WAYYYY too heavy.  We need denominations or lighter coins.

[slvrmoontiger]

5,000 sid is supposed to be a lot of money.  That's many years worth of rent at Nenyuki apartments.   That's like modern day banks saying the minimum balance you can have is $50,000.

Also, from a game play stand point, it won't achieve the results you're trying to get.  People won't start carrying around all their coins, it just means they'll hoard coins until they get 5000 so they can start using the bank.   Instead of buying stuff and moving that coin through the economy, this arbitrary requirement to hoard up to 5k first will kick in.

This and the fact that they will probably hoard it in an apartment somewhere, because lets face it coins are HEAVY. Given the choice between carrying a quiver full of arrows on a hunter and 2,000 coins I'd go with the former and risk the coins getting stolen in my apartment. I'm not seeing an upside for the bank nor the players on this.

[Spoon]

Have balance caps for social status maybe. Hell, I'ld be happy if only nobles/templars and merchant house leaders could use Nenyuk, and the odd independent who manages to attain a high enough status. That would keep most commoners with a far more realistic amount of cash to their name (enough to get by).

[Lizzie]

Have balance caps for social status maybe. Hell, I'ld be happy if only nobles/templars and merchant house leaders could use Nenyuk, and the odd independent who manages to attain a high enough status. That would keep most commoners with a far more realistic amount of cash to their name (enough to get by).

That would make absolutely zero sense whatsoever ICly, for anyone. Especially Nenyuk. Nenyuk is a GMH. Their primary commodity is money, with real estate rental fees being secondary. There's no reason why Nenyuk would refuse to allow someone to deposit MORE money in their account. Afterall - if that person dies, Nenyuk gets to keep the whole thing.

[solera]

Afterall - if  when that person dies, Nenyuk gets to keep the whole thing.

Don't know where you got if from. 

[FantasyWriter]

Add in Minimum deposits and a handling fee for withdrawals. 
Make them both Zalanthan-level harsh.

Code Select Expand

>Deposit 200
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "Come back when you have a large, pissant."

(which means that any given PC may have up to a large in coin on them at any given time. HELLO, Pickpockets and thugs!

Code Select Expand

>withdraw 200
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "Quit wasting my time, pissant."
250 coins have been deducted from your account. (25%)

>inventory
200 Allanaki coins


Code Select Expand

>Deposit 1000
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "Thank you for you business."

>withdrawl 1000
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "May they bring you many more coins in return!"
1050 coins have been deducted from your account. (5%)

[Patuk]

I liked Desertman's banking idea better.

[Spoon]

Have balance caps for social status maybe. Hell, I'ld be happy if only nobles/templars and merchant house leaders could use Nenyuk, and the odd independent who manages to attain a high enough status. That would keep most commoners with a far more realistic amount of cash to their name (enough to get by).

That would make absolutely zero sense whatsoever ICly, for anyone. Especially Nenyuk. Nenyuk is a GMH. Their primary commodity is money, with real estate rental fees being secondary. There's no reason why Nenyuk would refuse to allow someone to deposit MORE money in their account. Afterall - if that person dies, Nenyuk gets to keep the whole thing.

It's easier to get a bank account on Zalanthas than is it in real life. I think it's reasonable to imagine Nenyuk gets the vast vast majority of it's wealth from merchant houses and the nobility - commoners really are just the change (insert be the change joke). Elitism and racism don't need to make sense. If that isn't reason enough them have the city states weigh in to oppress people some more...

How about having to obtain a licence for keeping over a certain amount with Nenyuk? This would tie in nicely with the current tax on merchants (in the form of licences). Currently the system allows players to amass wealth to the point were it has lost it's value. People complain all the time on these boards how wealth is worthless, would this be the right track to solving it?

A cap of even 1000 wouldn't cause new players any problems, either.

OP's suggesting feels a bit awkward, and wouldn't really solve the problem of people who amass wealth easily.

[roughneck]

Having less coins just floating around in the world actually helps, and the death of a super rich character doesn't start a crazy inflation. Which I think is the real purpose with the banks. There's also to many IC reasons for the bank to never change, so this is a moot point.

My perspective as well.

[MeTekillot]

I use the bank all the time, because my apartment weightlimit won't allow anymore coins, and I need to stay unencumbered for those sweet combat bonuses.

[FantasyWriter]

I use the bank all the time, because my apartment weightlimit won't allow anymore coins, and I need to stay unencumbered for those sweet combat bonuses.

[Desertman]

I liked Desertman's banking idea better.

I would post the link again but I promised Nyr I would only bump it once a year and it isn't time yet.

Still, thanks. 

[slvrmoontiger]

I liked Desertman's banking idea better.

I would post the link again but I promised Nyr I would only bump it once a year and it isn't time yet.

Still, thanks. 

Did he mean this one: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,42707.0.html ?

[Harmless]

I want non-global accounts, bound to each city/branch, and I want fees, and I want the ability to store items for even bigger fees.

[slvrmoontiger]

I do like the idea of Tuluk having it's own currency. It being the same as Allanak makes it seem like they are stilled ruled by Allanak. I've always wondered why they still use Allanaki coins.

[MeTekillot]

It was a coding and playability headache. They used to have their own currency.

[nauta]

Could just call them nenyuk's nuggets...

[Patuk]

I want non-global accounts, bound to each city/branch, and I want fees, and I want the ability to store items for even bigger fees.

Well, this last one is already possible.

[Harmless]

store a container then. storing one piece of jewelry at a time and being forced to hold onto a ticket is not something I have ever used

[wizturbo]

This seems like a big development project to undertake, with some of the least bang for your buck (see what I did there?) I can think of...

Is the status quo optimal?  No probably not, but that doesn't mean precious development (especially coding) time should be dedicated to fixing something that's really not that big a deal.  I think if we're focusing on tweaking things in the economy, there's A LOT more to do before you get around to banking.

[slvrmoontiger]

Could just call them nenyuk's nuggets...

Or this. I still think it is a little unrealistic that a fully functional City State like Tuluk would succumb to using their past aggressor's currency. That would be like the United States using the British Pound. Or the Netherlands using the German currency. I just think after all this time and with the current hostilities Muk Utep would put an end to using their coins. Granted I understand the hassle it can be with different currencies and exchange rates and such from a coding and management aspect. So maybe a unified Nenyuki currency would be more appropriate.

[MeTekillot]

As long as it wasn't retconned. Maybe Nenyuk just starts the process and it's reflected codedly by everybody either getting huge chunks of obsidian if they decide to keep their old money, and keeping their cons and having them renamed to Nenyuki pieces if they decide to exchange.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree with the renaming currency bit. It makes no sense that Tuluk uses these coins. With Nenyuk being the merchant House they are, they would have already done this. A quick IC reasoning for the simple restring of a few lines in code? Tuluk has put pressure on Nenyuk to make the change, behind the scenes.

[wizturbo]

I agree with the renaming currency bit. It makes no sense that Tuluk uses these coins. With Nenyuk being the merchant House they are, they would have already done this. A quick IC reasoning for the simple restring of a few lines in code? Tuluk has put pressure on Nenyuk to make the change, behind the scenes.

I somehow doubt this would amount to a few lines of code.  I'm guessing it would be an enormous amount of work.

[MeTekillot]

I mean, you could just rename the "pile of allanaki coins" item.

[wizturbo]

I mean, you could just rename the "pile of allanaki coins" item.

Totally.  But if there are TWO sets of currency now instead of just one, undefined currency, then it would be a lot of work.

Switching over to a neutral nenyuki currency would be sweet.

[BleakOne]

They could always change the 'allanaki coins' desc and also the fact Tek's face and I think a Jade Cross are on the faces of the coin.

Then again, obsidian mostly comes from Allanak, so maybe they're the only ones with enough to make currency in enough quantity for it. I think the actual 'mints' which produce the coins belong to the Allanak Templarate, not Nenyuk... but I could be very wrong on that.

Tuluk could switch over to their own, maybe wood-based currency I guess, but I can see a lot of coding work going into making a second form of currency workable.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree with the renaming currency bit. It makes no sense that Tuluk uses these coins. With Nenyuk being the merchant House they are, they would have already done this. A quick IC reasoning for the simple restring of a few lines in code? Tuluk has put pressure on Nenyuk to make the change, behind the scenes.

Relevant portions bolded. Change the description of the coins, not adding a second currency, though I'd be fine with that too.

[Saellyn]

They could always change the 'allanaki coins' desc and also the fact Tek's face and I think a Jade Cross are on the faces of the coin.

Then again, obsidian mostly comes from Allanak, so maybe they're the only ones with enough to make currency in enough quantity for it. I think the actual 'mints' which produce the coins belong to the Allanak Templarate, not Nenyuk... but I could be very wrong on that.

Tuluk could switch over to their own, maybe wood-based currency I guess, but I can see a lot of coding work going into making a second form of currency workable.

Wood currency would be worth more in allanak wouldn't it?

[Kryos]

Don't fix a symptom, fix the problem.  The problem is the economy is out of whack, and the gritty live by the skin of your teeth life if you aren't courageous, manipulative, or connected enough to be owned by a rich and powerful House or Noble still really isn't there.  The simple, sad truth is almost none of my PC's have had any motivation about coins, and, most other characters seem utterly disinterested in material bribes unless they are fresh out of chargen.

This is a pity.

[Nyr]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

[Case]

Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.

I dunno about that. It's an unbacked currency of the dominant economy in a small region predominantly operating a mercantile economy. Tuluk don't have to expend any effort to mint coinage/maintain supply while being able to freely engage in trade without competed rates of exchange or fees. The coins are also obsidian, in a world without the production line or machining, so I doubt the minting process is much cop

Countries do this in modern times, esp with USD.

Source: I'm a Jew

[bcw81]

Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.

I dunno about that. It's an unbacked currency of the dominant economy in a small region predominantly operating a mercantile economy. Tuluk don't have to expend any effort to mint coinage/maintain supply while being able to freely engage in trade without competed rates of exchange or fees. The coins are also obsidian, in a world without the production line or machining, so I doubt the minting process is much cop

Countries do this in modern times, esp with USD.

Source: I'm a Jew

A lot of people in Tuluk have called the coins out due to their origin in completely IC ways, but at the same time still used them. Tyant Scales, ect. For the time being, it can stay like that.

[X-D]

A very, very simple proposal: make Nenyuk refuse to handle account balances of less than 5000 sid.  Poorer people have to carry all their money with them.

Any downside?

Downside is simple. People will simply grind that first 5k out soon as they can  then grind out the next 5k so they have 5k to work with...essentially changing nothing.

[nauta]

A very, very simple proposal: make Nenyuk refuse to handle account balances of less than 5000 sid.  Poorer people have to carry all their money with them.

Any downside?

Downside is simple. People will simply grind that first 5k out soon as they can  then grind out the next 5k so they have 5k to work with...essentially changing nothing.

Probably, I agree.  On only a slightly related note: Has the idea of random bank robberies ever been sussed?  Randomly wipe out accounts, individual or across the board.  Account errors not in your favor.  Corruption in the bank.

[Harmless]

I think we've had some discussions about allowing PCs to try to rob banks, it's kind of one of those things where it's really hard to implement and balance the appropriate virtual/NPC response to what players can realistically muster.

Nothing's stopping a pickpocket from posting themself near a bank and taking a little off the top of every withdrawal or deposit.

[Malken]

Nothing's stopping a pickpocket from posting themself near a bank and taking a little off the top of every withdrawal or deposit.

It's like my #1 hobby on Armageddon and 90% of why I play pickpockets.

[slvrmoontiger]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Nyr,

This all is great. Thank you for sharing information about how staff is working on things like this. Is it possible for you or another member of staff to keep us up-to-date as things progress?

[Nyr]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Nyr,

This all is great. Thank you for sharing information about how staff is working on things like this. Is it possible for you or another member of staff to keep us up-to-date as things progress?

Yes, when it's done you'll see it.

[Barzalene]

I'm worried about no longer being able to call money sid.

[Reiloth]

Yes but maybe we will call them nugs.

1000 nugs.

Egads, I hope it's still obsidian.

[LauraMars]

You can probably still call it sid, even if it isn't obsidian anymore.

Kinda like how we call a dollar a buck, even though the colonial leather trade which spawned the colloquialism hasn't been around in over a hundred years.

[Rahnevyn]

Or how Zalanthans themselves still refer to activities such as "kanking", even though almost nobody still alive today would have seen a living kank!

[Barzalene]

Alright. I'm good then

[Reiloth]

I'm gonna start calling them nugs anyways.

[Desertman]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Look at you. You saucy minx. Making me all hot and bothered. 

[flurry]

Anyway, reasons in support of Op's idea (I will almost certainly back down on each and every one of them, but just some thoughts):

1. It is -really- hard to remain poor.  Even a rinther who never leaves the rinth can amass a fortune pretty quickly and pretty easily.  It is even more crazy for hunters.  Of course, you might just say: junk your coins, or, you don't have to use the bank!  Well, sure, I guess, but boy is it tempting if it is there.  (In a way, the analogy here would be the new 'fire' ingredient for cooking: you could cook without a fire but now [or soonish] you have to.)

(emphasis added)

I'm way late on this comment, but I don't think that's true as stated (especially if we're considering <5000 to be what we call "poor"). It depends on things like clanned vs. independent, play style, kind of role, and so on. I've definitely had long-lived characters who never had as much as 5000 coins, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. And it wasn't that I had to do anything special to avoid accumulating much money. With clanned characters often it's a matter of: Do I really care how many excess coins I have? Are my needs being met? Do I have better things to do?

That's why I wouldn't enjoy the OP's idea. Similar to X-D's comment, my feeling is that this would just encourage me to grind up coins, which otherwise I have little desire to do, typically. It strikes me as being almost like the financial equivalent of how newbie contact or newbie ride used to work.

[Fujikoma]

Some PCs can't even -lift- three large, much less five. I find this rediculous and punishing to people who end up with a bad stat roll, unless the weight of currency is changed dramatically. It would be impossible to ever open an account. Also, if you don't like your money, find some IC reason to give it to someone who does, or leave it hanging out for them to take. Bribe a Templar today.

EDIT: Also, some races are unable to join -any- clans. If you leave them no choice, you will further be providing reason -not- to even attempt to play what some already call an unplayable race. Think about this with your indies rants. There's really not that many running around, and the ones that are still need the support of other PCs and groups, or else. I also agree with X-D, this will do nothing but promote further coin grinding. You don't want the coin, the solution is simple, and requires no changing of the code. Adjust your playstyle to suit what you want to play.

2nd edit: FURTHER, the longer other players spend having to grind to accomplish their goals, the less time they spend interacting with your PC. I don't want to undergo additional punishment by being unable to meaningfully interact with your PCs because I had to grind a fuckton more just to have a few words with your PC. Think about that when you're sitting alone, you type "who", and wonder where all those defilers are having that orgy.

[X-D]

I never even understand why this topic even comes up...I personally do not have a pony in this race. Because, most my PCs just make money as needed, so, bank, means nothing, and the others, well, if I want 100k coins then my PC will make it, again, bank changes mean nothing. On the other side, least the merchants will be bored since nobody will have sid to throw away.

Course that means all prices will have to come down since people will not have that  2k just laying about to toss at the pretty sword.

And people will not order stuff, What, it will be a RL month, Shit, I am not carrying 3k around for that long, what do you have on hand right now for 200?

[CodeMaster]

I've been watching this thread and there are lots of good points on both sides.

One thing to keep in mind is the mantra "playability is sacred".

The other thing to keep in mind is that the simple banking system we have is clearly an abstraction, a prop to be roleplayed around and not necessarily with.  Virtually there might be other ways to store and hide wealth (your mattress, a hidden hatch in your apartment, your friend's cousin who does that kind of stuff, investing in a merchant's budding business, a buried chest in the desert, etc.) beyond just the 'withdraw'/'deposit' commands.  If banking were to be altered in this single but significant (and interesting) way, it would demand these "virtual" aspects be addressed and fleshed out.

[Saellyn]

It's not interesting. It's an inconvenience for the independent guys who don't have hide, don't want to leave their cash in an unsafe location, and...

Wait...

Quoted from Nyr...

ICly, I mean.  OOCly you have support from independent staff.

... Confirmed banks will require 5,000 coin deposit.

[Fujikoma]

It's not interesting. It's an inconvenience for the independent guys who don't have hide, don't want to leave their cash in an unsafe location, and...

Wait...

Quoted from Nyr...

ICly, I mean.  OOCly you have support from independent staff.

... Confirmed banks will require 5,000 coin deposit.

And, you didn't read a word I said, did you? Die in a fire.

[Lizzie]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

[bcw81]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47006.0.html

[flurry]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment.

That's true. Although in the context of the 5000 coin minimum suggestion, if I were trying to get beyond that 'newbie banking' milestone, I'm not sure I'd want to spend money on rent. Maybe encumbrance would make that unavoidable though. Ah, that's how Nenyuk gets you. You're so loaded down with the coins they don't want, that you have to give them some of that unwanted sid in rent.

Which does bring another point to mind. Is Nenyuk really going to turn up their noses at 4 large, while renting apartments for which 4 large gets you around six years of rent?

[Lizzie]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47006.0.html

Yes but if you read that post:

...[snip]
Key aspects of this feature:
PCs can bury items in a room, creating / adding to an artifact cache.  This is of course based on sector type, as you cannot bury things inside buildings and city streets, etc.
...[snip]

That's why I'm suggesting it become a thing. Since currently, it isn't a thing

[Reiloth]

I still don't see a solid argument for making a 5000 coins banking minimum. It seems like an arbitrary concept.

[Fujikoma]

I still don't see a solid argument for making a 5000 coins banking minimum. It seems like an arbitrary concept.

Never thought I'd find myself agreeing with you, but I do here. Fees I can kind of, kind of understand, however, Nenyuk still gets all the coins in the end. I wonder how many hundred large of mine they have stacked up in a giant stone silo somewhere. Still, fees would make more sense, a lot more, in terms of corrupt money gathering.

Here's a concept, instead of having a minimum deposit of five large, have a minimum balance of five large, that if you go under it, causes a slow stream of small penalties, until the error is corrected, or you hit zero... still, it could be something less punishing, like two thousand coins. Have a transfer fee for converting currencies between city currencies, so you can still get your money out, but you're going to lose a small fragment of it, unless you withdraw it at the bank you deposited it at. I realize all of this would be complicated, and likely not worth the time and effort to code, but I'm just tossing ideas out there.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would really just like to see you have to go to the bank you deposited your money at to get it, really, rather than anything else. If you deposited it in Allanak, you can't draw it out in Tuluk. Plain and simple, and creates plots and mini-events around the transportation of money.

[X-D]

Well, that I have no problem with.

[valeria]

I would really just like to see you have to go to the bank you deposited your money at to get it, really, rather than anything else. If you deposited it in Allanak, you can't draw it out in Tuluk. Plain and simple, and creates plots and mini-events around the transportation of money.

Now this is something that gets my stamp of approval.

[Inks]

7DV's idea is perfect.

5000 coin balance? Nenyuk would lose money for no reason.

The weathered, gem encrusted banker says, in pants-on-head accented sirihish. " I like to do my bit to make the world arbitrarily harsher and gritty."

[Desertman]

For some reason, I love that idea.....


I still prefer the idea of bank "tickets" for your deposits the same way stables issue you a ticket for your mounts.

1) Deposit 700
2) The Nenyuki clerk hands you a stamped leather ticket.
3) Offer Ticket
4) The Nenyuki clerk takes your stamped leather ticket and hands you 700 coins.

A) Each banking location has a different version of the ticket in question. This eliminates global banking.
B) This is the end of independents having massive fortunes that are guarded without fail for free by Nenyuk.
C) This is the beginning of independents hiring people to protect them, and their fortunes, since they are carrying them.
D) This is the beginning of raiders and crooks doing many more raider and crook things.
E) This is the beginning of "the good guys" having many more villains and raiders and crooks to go after.
F) This would make Desertman happeh.

It just makes more sense that the banking system of Zalanthas would function off of a stamped and marked ticket system that denoted how much the ticket was worth and which bank location it belonged to. The current system forces us to try and explain why Nenyuki bank clerks can remember the names and faces on sight of every single person in Zalanthas.

It just breeds a lot more conflict and promotes much more in the way of realism.

[Kismetic]

I would really just like to see you have to go to the bank you deposited your money at to get it, really, rather than anything else. If you deposited it in Allanak, you can't draw it out in Tuluk. Plain and simple, and creates plots and mini-events around the transportation of money.

Such win, wow

[Malken]

I would really just like to see you have to go to the bank you deposited your money at to get it, really, rather than anything else. If you deposited it in Allanak, you can't draw it out in Tuluk. Plain and simple, and creates plots and mini-events around the transportation of money.

Such win, wow

While I agree that it would certainly make things more interesting, the IC fact is that Nenyuk has a bunch of slave-clerks who spend their whole life in a tiny room way'ing to one another how much so and so has deposited. That's probably why Nenyuk is so successful and why people actually use the bank, because their money feels "safe" and they can pick it up anywhere in the world.

Nenyuk reminds me a lot of Valint & Balk from the First Law series. The bank is secretly ran by a wizard that uses the money to control and shape the politics and wars of every cities in the country. I can only imagine what secret lies behind Nenyuk.

[Desertman]

This is pretty much the secret behind Nenyuk as it stands, though I believe you were more joking than anything.

Talia Quote:

Truth be told, "banks" in Zalanthas are nearly totally an OOC convenience for the playerbase. This is also why there's just one coin system. Portability of coins makes for playability.

[wizturbo]

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