Let's restrict banking services

[nauta]

A very, very simple proposal: make Nenyuk refuse to handle account balances of less than 5000 sid.  Poorer people have to carry all their money with them.

Any downside?

Downside is simple. People will simply grind that first 5k out soon as they can  then grind out the next 5k so they have 5k to work with...essentially changing nothing.

Probably, I agree.  On only a slightly related note: Has the idea of random bank robberies ever been sussed?  Randomly wipe out accounts, individual or across the board.  Account errors not in your favor.  Corruption in the bank.

[Harmless]

I think we've had some discussions about allowing PCs to try to rob banks, it's kind of one of those things where it's really hard to implement and balance the appropriate virtual/NPC response to what players can realistically muster.

Nothing's stopping a pickpocket from posting themself near a bank and taking a little off the top of every withdrawal or deposit.

[Malken]

Nothing's stopping a pickpocket from posting themself near a bank and taking a little off the top of every withdrawal or deposit.

It's like my #1 hobby on Armageddon and 90% of why I play pickpockets.

[slvrmoontiger]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Nyr,

This all is great. Thank you for sharing information about how staff is working on things like this. Is it possible for you or another member of staff to keep us up-to-date as things progress?

[Nyr]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Nyr,

This all is great. Thank you for sharing information about how staff is working on things like this. Is it possible for you or another member of staff to keep us up-to-date as things progress?

Yes, when it's done you'll see it.

[Barzalene]

I'm worried about no longer being able to call money sid.

[Reiloth]

Yes but maybe we will call them nugs.

1000 nugs.

Egads, I hope it's still obsidian.

[LauraMars]

You can probably still call it sid, even if it isn't obsidian anymore.

Kinda like how we call a dollar a buck, even though the colonial leather trade which spawned the colloquialism hasn't been around in over a hundred years.

[Rahnevyn]

Or how Zalanthans themselves still refer to activities such as "kanking", even though almost nobody still alive today would have seen a living kank!

[Barzalene]

Alright. I'm good then

[Reiloth]

I'm gonna start calling them nugs anyways.

[Desertman]

Making changes to banking is something we've discussed officially recently (within the past month).  Some of the ideas here are actually in the proposal, which itself is pretty fleshed out with some neat concepts.  However, it does require some code work, and that is the bottleneck.

Overall currency discussions have also been had, but not officially.  Yes, it may be unrealistic for Tuluk to use what is ostensibly an Allanaki currency.  It will be up to staff to determine how far to go with any adjustments to currency.  If possible with code, multiple currencies could be neat; this is one of the Armageddon Reborn ideas that might eventually make its way into the game.  However, that also would be a significant amount of work to mesh multiple currencies into an economy, and that's just on the code front!

Look at you. You saucy minx. Making me all hot and bothered. 

[flurry]

Anyway, reasons in support of Op's idea (I will almost certainly back down on each and every one of them, but just some thoughts):

1. It is -really- hard to remain poor.  Even a rinther who never leaves the rinth can amass a fortune pretty quickly and pretty easily.  It is even more crazy for hunters.  Of course, you might just say: junk your coins, or, you don't have to use the bank!  Well, sure, I guess, but boy is it tempting if it is there.  (In a way, the analogy here would be the new 'fire' ingredient for cooking: you could cook without a fire but now [or soonish] you have to.)

(emphasis added)

I'm way late on this comment, but I don't think that's true as stated (especially if we're considering <5000 to be what we call "poor"). It depends on things like clanned vs. independent, play style, kind of role, and so on. I've definitely had long-lived characters who never had as much as 5000 coins, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. And it wasn't that I had to do anything special to avoid accumulating much money. With clanned characters often it's a matter of: Do I really care how many excess coins I have? Are my needs being met? Do I have better things to do?

That's why I wouldn't enjoy the OP's idea. Similar to X-D's comment, my feeling is that this would just encourage me to grind up coins, which otherwise I have little desire to do, typically. It strikes me as being almost like the financial equivalent of how newbie contact or newbie ride used to work.

[Fujikoma]

Some PCs can't even -lift- three large, much less five. I find this rediculous and punishing to people who end up with a bad stat roll, unless the weight of currency is changed dramatically. It would be impossible to ever open an account. Also, if you don't like your money, find some IC reason to give it to someone who does, or leave it hanging out for them to take. Bribe a Templar today.

EDIT: Also, some races are unable to join -any- clans. If you leave them no choice, you will further be providing reason -not- to even attempt to play what some already call an unplayable race. Think about this with your indies rants. There's really not that many running around, and the ones that are still need the support of other PCs and groups, or else. I also agree with X-D, this will do nothing but promote further coin grinding. You don't want the coin, the solution is simple, and requires no changing of the code. Adjust your playstyle to suit what you want to play.

2nd edit: FURTHER, the longer other players spend having to grind to accomplish their goals, the less time they spend interacting with your PC. I don't want to undergo additional punishment by being unable to meaningfully interact with your PCs because I had to grind a fuckton more just to have a few words with your PC. Think about that when you're sitting alone, you type "who", and wonder where all those defilers are having that orgy.

[X-D]

I never even understand why this topic even comes up...I personally do not have a pony in this race. Because, most my PCs just make money as needed, so, bank, means nothing, and the others, well, if I want 100k coins then my PC will make it, again, bank changes mean nothing. On the other side, least the merchants will be bored since nobody will have sid to throw away.

Course that means all prices will have to come down since people will not have that  2k just laying about to toss at the pretty sword.

And people will not order stuff, What, it will be a RL month, Shit, I am not carrying 3k around for that long, what do you have on hand right now for 200?

[CodeMaster]

I've been watching this thread and there are lots of good points on both sides.

One thing to keep in mind is the mantra "playability is sacred".

The other thing to keep in mind is that the simple banking system we have is clearly an abstraction, a prop to be roleplayed around and not necessarily with.  Virtually there might be other ways to store and hide wealth (your mattress, a hidden hatch in your apartment, your friend's cousin who does that kind of stuff, investing in a merchant's budding business, a buried chest in the desert, etc.) beyond just the 'withdraw'/'deposit' commands.  If banking were to be altered in this single but significant (and interesting) way, it would demand these "virtual" aspects be addressed and fleshed out.

[Saellyn]

It's not interesting. It's an inconvenience for the independent guys who don't have hide, don't want to leave their cash in an unsafe location, and...

Wait...

Quoted from Nyr...

ICly, I mean.  OOCly you have support from independent staff.

... Confirmed banks will require 5,000 coin deposit.

[Fujikoma]

It's not interesting. It's an inconvenience for the independent guys who don't have hide, don't want to leave their cash in an unsafe location, and...

Wait...

Quoted from Nyr...

ICly, I mean.  OOCly you have support from independent staff.

... Confirmed banks will require 5,000 coin deposit.

And, you didn't read a word I said, did you? Die in a fire.

[Lizzie]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

[bcw81]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47006.0.html

[flurry]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment.

That's true. Although in the context of the 5000 coin minimum suggestion, if I were trying to get beyond that 'newbie banking' milestone, I'm not sure I'd want to spend money on rent. Maybe encumbrance would make that unavoidable though. Ah, that's how Nenyuk gets you. You're so loaded down with the coins they don't want, that you have to give them some of that unwanted sid in rent.

Which does bring another point to mind. Is Nenyuk really going to turn up their noses at 4 large, while renting apartments for which 4 large gets you around six years of rent?

[Lizzie]

Another place to stash coins: in your apartment. If the staff were to add a stash feature to recognized tenants of apartments, and apartments were coded to have places to codedly hide stuff, this could be kind of neat. You wouldn't need any special skill to put things, but you'd still need the usual perception skills to find them. It'd work the same as it does now, when you want to hide a tube of spice outside the city gates. Except it'd be in an apartment, and it'd only work if you're an actual tenant of that specific apartment. And the risk of your stash being found would be the same as it would be outside the city, as long as someone else manages to get into your apartment and look.

Upside: Maybe a templar will miss that tube hidden behind a wall painting in your living room. Or the thief will miss the drawstring of your bag-o-sids sticking out from under your mattress.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47006.0.html

Yes but if you read that post:

...[snip]
Key aspects of this feature:
PCs can bury items in a room, creating / adding to an artifact cache.  This is of course based on sector type, as you cannot bury things inside buildings and city streets, etc.
...[snip]

That's why I'm suggesting it become a thing. Since currently, it isn't a thing

[Reiloth]

I still don't see a solid argument for making a 5000 coins banking minimum. It seems like an arbitrary concept.

[Fujikoma]

I still don't see a solid argument for making a 5000 coins banking minimum. It seems like an arbitrary concept.

Never thought I'd find myself agreeing with you, but I do here. Fees I can kind of, kind of understand, however, Nenyuk still gets all the coins in the end. I wonder how many hundred large of mine they have stacked up in a giant stone silo somewhere. Still, fees would make more sense, a lot more, in terms of corrupt money gathering.

Here's a concept, instead of having a minimum deposit of five large, have a minimum balance of five large, that if you go under it, causes a slow stream of small penalties, until the error is corrected, or you hit zero... still, it could be something less punishing, like two thousand coins. Have a transfer fee for converting currencies between city currencies, so you can still get your money out, but you're going to lose a small fragment of it, unless you withdraw it at the bank you deposited it at. I realize all of this would be complicated, and likely not worth the time and effort to code, but I'm just tossing ideas out there.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would really just like to see you have to go to the bank you deposited your money at to get it, really, rather than anything else. If you deposited it in Allanak, you can't draw it out in Tuluk. Plain and simple, and creates plots and mini-events around the transportation of money.