Do we really have enough subguilds?  Have we exhausted the total supply of non-abusable skill combinations available for subguilds?

The commoner guild thread discusses a guild that would choose three subguilds.  I thought a discussion of a) subguilds you'd like to see in the current environment b) subguilds in a commoner-guild environment and c) subguilds available only to a commoner guild would be worthwhile.  Please be clear about which situation you are talking about.

For myself, in the current environment, I would like to see more location based subguilds.  Currently nomad is essentially the only one.  Location based subguilds would at a minimum change your accent to the appropriate type.

Allanaki - Appropriate accent, enchanced dual wield, some other skill?
Tuluki - Appropriate accent, enhanced shield use, some other skill?
Red Storm - Appropriate accent, better able to see in blowing sand?
Luirs - Appropriate accent, haggle (for those desert markets?), very poor bendune?

I dunno, about the only ideas I have are:

A calvary subguild that would give basically the mounted combat abilities of a ranger but with lower caps. (the charge skill...etc...)

Or a highwayman subguild that would give outdoor sneak, hide and backstab...all at lower caps than the others that get them.

Just a couple ideas, haven't really thought through how abusable they may or may not be.

Quote from: "jhunter"Or a highwayman subguild that would give outdoor sneak, hide and backstab...all at lower caps than the others that get them.

Even if it is balanced, a subclass that gives backstab is going to make a lot of people concerned.  I'd suggest giving them sap instead.  There's already a subclass with sap, and it hasn't unbalanced the game, so it's more likely to be okayed.  And highwayman?  There are no highways.  But I do like the idea of the Raider subclass.  Hiding behind a rock and waiting to brain somebody should be a relatively simple task.

Quote from: "jhunter"A calvary subguild that would give basically the mounted combat abilities of a ranger but with lower caps. (the charge skill...etc...)

I don't like this, but mainly because I don't like the restriction on who can charge and who can't, and this would validate that as justified.

I really do like city-state origin determining varied %s.   There was a thread that disappeared which talked about merchants (with some variegation that I thought was reasonable), and the combat thing (shields vs dual) makes sense.   These honed specializations don't need to be a part of subguilds though.

I'd agree with city based bonuses.. As opposed to just an accent.. Esp. the Luir's/Bedune..

EXCEPT that sometimes you've lived your live in X city..and are just moving to Y city.

QuoteBut I do like the idea of the Raider subclass.

Right that's what I mean...obviously there are no highways. :roll:

QuoteI don't like this, but mainly because I don't like the restriction on who can charge and who can't, and this would validate that as justified.

Ummmm...I'm not sure what you mean exactly.... :?

Mostly I thought of the origin subguilds being for those who started the game in one city, but had in their background being from another city.  Since subguilds are supposed to be about background anyways...

Backstab will never get in a subguild.  Neither will mindbender powers, magick, or any other extremely powerful skill.  I think thats been sufficiently addressed by staff before.

Some other ideas:

Dune Trader: Sirihish (medium level) and haggle (for those elven traders out there)

Evesdropper:  Climb, listen and flee

Spy:  Listen, search and peek

Tribal Hunter:  Throw, spear making and skin

I understand what people are saying, but me personally...I just don't consider backstab that powerful. Yes, -potentially- it could be...but not with all the IC restrictions that make learning it  so hard. Also, as a subguild skill, it would have a much lower cap than an assassin's version so it wouldn't be near as dangerous.

But I do see what some are saying perhaps sap as a replacement to the same idea.

*shrug*

Quote from: "Anonymous"Evesdropper:  Climb, listen and flee

So far all of the subguilds represent legitimate, realistic backgrounds that a person could actually have, and not arbitrary crap.  I personally would like to keep it that way.

I don't care, I like playing this game.

Bounty Hunter: Scan, Hunt, Search.

Slaver: Subdue, Throw, Pilot

Isn't it four things you get with a subclass...if i could chose i would pick

listen, haggle, climb, skin ...I don't know what i would call it but a warrior with this class would be fun to play if not overly uber.

Quote from: "Anonymous"
Tribal Hunter:  Throw, spear making and skin

Hey, that kank stole my idea!  I have proof, see?  http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2175  I've even idea'd  my two favorite potential subguilds in game, to no avail. :cry:  

Since I like being repetative, here are my two favorites again:


Spearman - Throw, Skin, Spear making.

Tanner - Skin, Tanning, Leatherworking.


AC

There needs to be a subguild which gets the throwing skill.   There's 2 which get archery, so a throwing subguild would be good.  It'd be good for hunters.  

There also needs to be a subguild which gets the new axemaking and clubmaking skills.

Other than that I think the subguilds are fine.

Quote from: "Angela Christine"Tanner - Skin, Tanning, Leatherworking.

I'm fairly certain that a subclass consisting of all those skills and more exists.

Quote from: "EvilRoeSlade"

Quote from: "Angela Christine"Tanner - Skin, Tanning, Leatherworking.

I'm fairly certain that a subclass consisting of all those skills and more exists.

You'd think so, but you'd be wrong.  Only one subguild gets Skinning.  That other one sounds like it should get skinning, but it doesn't, and you don't find out about it until you play a non-skinning guild with that subclass.


Angela Christine

I do think the descriptions of guilds and subclasses could use a good going over for the simple fact that the jobs in game are different.  Employees expect different things now.

Granted, I've not tried everything... but here are some ideas I'd like to add, if not already done:

Haggle – I think both linguists and house servants should have this.  House servants would be aide type people who have good people skills and do shopping for their employees.  Linguists would pick up not only other languages but cultures as well... if they can pick up cultures, they'd know how to pick up people skills enough to haggle with merchants.  

Commoner – Someone brought up the commoner idea as a guild.  I'd say commoners would get forage w/ food, kick, bludgeon weapons, and repair everything.

Commoners should also get cooking, unless that's one of the universal skills.

I'd look, but words are becoming blurr....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Miee is very tired.  If you read any posts by her today, they may ooh!  shiny!

Poor Miee.

*pets the Miee*

I'd personally like to be able to pick up more then one subguild by learning from other players or solo roleplay if need presents itself.  All of the subguilds have low skill caps, so I don't really see someone ever becoming overpowered by being able to learn skills from another subguild.  

I'd say, the 'teach' command should be able to to eventually (and i mean, after many attempts) give someone the skill with a low-cap.  These are people we are talking about, who can learn new skills even if they aren't really their cup of tea.  I'm sure a noble who has never cooked a meal in his entire life, could learn to make bread if need presented itself.  Or a wealthy merchant learn to hide, if there are lots of people after him for an extended period of time.

I must admit Wiz's idea sound tempting, probably because we all know just how much that could be overly abused, esspecially if not implemeted correctly.


               But even if it were implemented correctly to avoid serious twinking and so it would take RL years for a character to become uber or have every skill ( not to mention making some skill like Backstab unteachable) , i can aready hear some arguements that this will make people focus more on skills and making uber character then on actually RPing weaknesses and strengths or relying on others.

I personally think linguists should be bedune as well.  Sirhish and allundean are useful, but mikirrim, well I've runn into very few dwarves who were not newbie who had trouble speaking sirhish.

I believe there should be 2 different linguist subguilds.

Bendune, allundean and sirihish.  "Tribal languages"

Cavilish, mirikkum and sirihish.   "City languages"

Linguists should also learn languages faster then any other subguild.

I realize some people might say cavilish shouldn't be available in a subguild, but I ABSOLUTELY hate that people immediately know your a certain guild simply by finding out you understand a language.

To knit-pick,

two linguist subguilds is a waste. Just have one, and add in bedune. If you don't want one, email the mud asking them to take it away.

Plus, alludean is a city language, also.


As far as learning languages faster, I was under the impression that they do.

I think the subguilds give too much already, they should be toned down, I mean hunters in my opinion were always ridiculous.  A re-hashing of the way you pick them could help with this, like only allowing rangers to pick hunter as the subguild, it only makes sense for a ranger to be a hunter, unless you want to use the excuse that just because you're picking that guild doesn't mean you can't roleplay it another way? You can use that excuse, and most people will - but if you're going to roleplay a hunter, pick the ranger class, not assassin and hunter so you can have backstab.

Quote from: "Vettrock"I personally think linguists should be bedune as well.  Sirhish and allundean are useful, but mikirrim, well I've runn into very few dwarves who were not newbie who had trouble speaking sirhish.

The question is, which is more often the case, which language would a linguist be more exposed to?  Which is spoken more prevalently, mirukkim or bendune.  To me the answer to that question is the answer to what the third linguist language should be.