Subguilds

[jhunter]

I think adding Bendune to the linguist subguild is a good idea, personally.

I would think that there's as much chance of them knowing Bendune as the person knowing mirukkim.

[Delirium]

I don't. Bendune is a language spoken out in the desert and in locations that tribals frequent (hint: generally not large cities), and it takes a long time to know a language properly - so you would have to have constant contact with a speaker of it for a solid amount of time.

The nomad and one other subguild (dune trader?) cover this. Linguist strikes me as much more of a city-based subguild - and the three most common languages of the cities are in it.

Me, I think that with the upsurge of tribal characters I've seen lately, people just go 'woah cool, I wanna be able to chat with these guys!' I say to that, go through the effort of learning the language IC, or pick an appropriate subguild.

[Lazloth]

Thought I read this, but don't spot it.

* Linguist subguild to grant its language pool & proficiencies based on char's starting location.

Haggle – I think both linguists and house servants should have this.

You're freaking nuts.

[jhunter]

Bendune is a language spoken out in the desert and in locations that tribals frequent (hint: generally not large cities), and it takes a long time to know a language properly - so you would have to have constant contact with a speaker of it for a solid amount of time.

Not true, in both of the major cities there are marketplaces where those tribals and such come to trade. One of them in particular has a place that is mostly tribals doing their trade.

And that's not counting the outposts where people do alot of trade from all different cultures.

[Delirium]

Yes, trade, but I don't really percieve them as staying there long-term. And I was referring to the two large cities, not to outposts.. I don't think it's any secret that Luir's is well-known for having a constant presence of human tribals.

Maybe a smattering of Bendune, but I still don't think anyone would know it very well unless they had constant, prolonged contact with someone willing to teach them.

[jhunter]

So, since a linguist is one who takes the time to learn other languages, and the tribals are there to trade. Why in the world -wouldn't- the linguist trade to learn the language?

[Delirium]

A linguist already gets three languages. That's a lot. Being fluent in three languages is nothing to sneeze at, and in fact it's pretty darn impressive. Then you top that off with Bendune, which is supposedly a somewhat difficult and different language to grasp for outsiders, and is mainly spoken out in the desert and among tribes - I imagine tribals use sirihish while they're in the city so they can communicate - not to mention that those tribals may not be willing to teach some stupid city-kept their language - sorry, I just think it overpowers the linguist subguild way too much.

I could see another subguild combination where you get bendune and allundean, and maybe a smattering of cavlish as well. That could work. But I don't think linguists should get it.

Not to mention.. what you said just sounds like some fun RP. Why rob yourself of the chance to work through all that through the course of play?

[jhunter]

Well, as you said yourself...in some situations that linguist would also have Bendune, if that linguist was from Luir's anyway.

What would be cool is if you could pick three languages for your linguist to know, within reason of course.

Maybe pick three from a list of:

sirhish

allundean

mirukkim

bendune

And be able to also speak them with the different accents. (northern, southern)


*shrug*

[Delirium]

Well, as you said yourself...in some situations that linguist would also have Bendune, if that linguist was from Luir's anyway.

I didn't say that.

I did insinuate that people might have more of a chance to pick up a smattering of it if they spent most of their time there.

Anyway, I wouldn't be against it being given out in the manner I described in my above post. The way subguilds are coded, I believe your suggestion would require a code change, and I think it would be simpler to just create a new subguild that gives out allundean, bendune, and moderate cavlish. The accents you spoke them with would still depend on where you started.

[Larrath]

A smattering of a language is not the same as knowing it.  If someone spoke to me in French, I might be able to pick up a couple of words and get the general gist of things...maybe.  This does not mean I can talk to them with any semblence of fluence, though.

Giving Linguists another language, and thus leaving the only language people would want to learn (I'm keeping Tatlum out of this because 99% of people won't dare try), is just going over the top.

Should desert-based linguists get Bendune?  Damn straight, but not everyone...and no way should they get Cavilish.  Cavilish is not nearly as secret as the Merchant Houses would like, but it's still not a language that is just slightly less popular than Allundean.
I'd say that one in sixty would know Cavilish in one of the city-states, possibly even less.

Sure, it sucks that people can go "He knows Cavilish, I know my pickpocket can mug him", but giving everyone the language is not a solution.  Making it possible to be a merchant who does not know Cavilish, or maybe even has some fighting abilities, could solve that, though.

[Solas]

Hmm, I'll also agree that we should replace mirikkum with bendune, and due to the fact that it's not a so called "city-language" as you guys are calling it, then why not have it toned down as perhaps the skill level of a new elf knowing sirihish? I feel bendune would be much more useful to a linguist, and more probable due to the fact that it's nearly a second language outside the walls, if not a primary language. Also, PC-wise, there is little reason to know mirikkum because they are not that populous. In the desert, there are no dwarven tribes to trade with; in the city, there is no dwarven ghetto such as humans and elves have (Rinth as an example). If theres so little ways to interact with many dwarves, how then could a linguist learn the language fluently? I'd say they have more chance of being around bendune-speaking people than mirikkum-speaking dwarves. And if there -is- a rare instance when you need to speak mirikkum to communicate with dwarves, you could always learn it ICly. I'm guessing the reason mirikkum was given to a linguist is to provide a way to breach the language barrier between whatever race to dwarves, but there really is no reason to breach that gap since there is no mainly-mirikkum speaking dwarves.         ....hmm, I think I'm rambling.

...my point is that a linguist would (find a neccesity to use) bendune more than mirrikum.  

[wizturbo]

It all comes down to this.  I hate how everyone is a cookie cutter.  From noticing just a few skills they know exactly what someone is capable of, and thats bullshit.  I'm tempted to try and make special app characters everytime just to prevent people from putting me in some cookie cutter mold.  The warrior that speaks cavilish.  The assassin who's too honorable to use backstab, but is damn good with a longbow.  The burglar who's fingers just can't work a lockpick, so they figured just beating someone over the head with a club and taking their keys was a better solution.


I HATE cookie cutters.

[jhunter]

The assassin who's too honorable to use backstab, but is damn good with a longbow. The burglar who's fingers just can't work a lockpick, so they figured just beating someone over the head with a club and taking their keys was a better solution.

Uhmmm...you can already do these... :?

[Solas]

That's what the subguilds are there for... .

[Bogre]

I dunno, about the only ideas I have are:

A calvary subguild that would give basically the mounted combat abilities of a ranger but with lower caps. (the charge skill...etc...)

Or a highwayman subguild that would give outdoor sneak, hide and backstab...all at lower caps than the others that get them.

Just a couple ideas, haven't really thought through how abusable they may or may not be.

I don't think cavalry could really evolve well in Zalanthas with the lack of quick mounts. Think about massed ranks of archers, just firing time and time again on people mounted on...kanks.

[jhunter]

From the documentation:

War Beetle : These large, highly agressive insects are almost identical to ordinary beetles save in size. Covered in a thick chitin, typically ranging from dark browns to blacks, these beetles boast very powerful mandibles which can deliver hard bites. Though larger and slower than kanks, domesticated war beetles are prized by mercenaries and professional soldiers alike for their thicker shells and overall strength in combat. Large armies often employ units of riders mounted upon war beetles as heavy cavalry in battle.

[Solas]

I would actually like to see more mounted battles, perhaps a mounted unit in one of the great Houses could be used...in many ways than it firsts appears to be. I'm sure House Tor in Allanak would have thought of some such notion in the past. Look at the usefulness of cavilry in medieval times, even with longbowmen and crossbowmen being used. Cavilry sometimes won or lost a battle...actually, cavilry became almost a necessity in battles at the peak of mounted infantry greatness.

[Bogre]

From the documentation:

War Beetle : These large, highly agressive insects are almost identical to ordinary beetles save in size. Covered in a thick chitin, typically ranging from dark browns to blacks, these beetles boast very powerful mandibles which can deliver hard bites. Though larger and slower than kanks, domesticated war beetles are prized by mercenaries and professional soldiers alike for their thicker shells and overall strength in combat. Large armies often employ units of riders mounted upon war beetles as heavy cavalry in battle.

I stand corrected, I forgot about those things.

[Angela Christine]

What would be cool is if you could pick three languages for your linguist to know, within reason of course.

Maybe pick three from a list of:

sirhish

allundean

mirukkim

bendune

Instead of your normal starting languages?  

While the subclass gets three languages, the vast majority of characters really only gain 2 languages, sometimes just one and a half.  


AC

[wizturbo]

Instead of your normal starting languages?  

While the subclass gets three languages, the vast majority of characters really only gain 2 languages, sometimes just one and a half.  


AC

Yup.  Which is why I think adding bendune and/or cavilish as an option would help make the subguild more useful.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Maybe pick three from a list of:

sirhish

allundean

mirukkim

bendune

That's exactly the same as just flat out giving all linguists bendune.  Think about it.

[jhunter]

jhunter wrote:
Maybe pick three from a list of:

sirhish

allundean

mirukkim

bendune


That's exactly the same as just flat out giving all linguists bendune. Think about it.

Which contributes to proof of the point that they should get Bendune rather than Mirukkim.

[Anonymous]

change accent skill would be amazing to have, for spies at least, I'd love the rogue classes to have this, probably merchants should get it too...that is if it isn't already a skill.

[Solas]

There was a discussion on that idea before I believe. Somewhere in the GDB... . It would be kinda unlikely to speak both an american accent and an australian accent fluently without mispernouncing a single word, even if you had practiced for 10 years. Its almost like trying to impersonate another person's voice...in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Actors do it (The one that comes to mind in lucy lawless, Xena, she has a strong british accent in RL)  and real life linguists... a con artist or merchant would probably take the time to do it right just because of the benifits...coarse your right it wouldn't be perfect all the time but hey it's the same with all skills, they aren't 100%.