How about making peek work on unconcious people?

[TEH BANDIT]

Or being able to search them, at least.  If I am playing a mugger that dosen't have peek, and I knock someone out... the only way I can be sure I'm getting what I want is to kill them and look in their corpse.

steal 1. guy dosent work and  isn't very ic at all
after a few things, it says they dont have that item, even though they still have stuff.

its going to suck when I have to kill someone because of it

[Agent_137]

I feel no pity, for some reason.

[TEH BANDIT]

What?  You will when I have to fucking kill your character because I'm hungry and you might have somthing I can pawn.

[spawnloser]

Easy fix.

Knock them out.
Look at them.
Take any item worn their cloak, backpack, belts...you know, the items most commonly seen as wearable containers.
Walk away with your phat loot.

Editted to add: You may want to look into the difficulty level for using steal on an unconscious person.

[Anonymous]

...Riiiiight.  Except they might have a sweet sword or container in their inventory I can't steal, for some reason, which makes no sense whatsoever.

[Anarchy]

Well have you any idea how fast mugging happens? Its *whap* snatch and RUN. You do not want -anyone- to see you. Nor do you want a group of 'rinthers mugging you AND your victim.

If - 1, you dont know what your searching for.
or 2, you dont have peek, then

RP as if you rushed to take what you could, and over looked some of the smaller things. Oh dear, you over looked that sword, or gem, so what? Big deal. It happens all the time. Nobody gets what they want if its just a random mugging.

[Anonymous]

It's not smart to assume any situation.  How the hell do you know where I am at?

If I blackjacked some guy in an ally, I'd check all his pockets in his pants, and in his jacket.  Guess how long that would take?  30 seconds or less, and I might find a wallet loaded with cash.

Lets say a raider jumps someone in the wastes and knocks him out, but for whatever reason that they're allowed to have, decides he dosent want to kill him.  Is there a SINGLE reason he wouldn't be able to search the guy for stuff?  It is extreemly ooc to have to kill someone to search them.

I suggest non-skilled peek should always fail, unless the victim is asleep or unconcious.


If thats what you want though, my chars always going to have an ic reason to kill the people I mug.  Thats real fun for everyone else, isn't it.  Whatever, if thats how the code requires us to play.  Your loss, not mine.

[Anonymous]

One more thing (i should register), things in his inventory wouldn't even be like his wallet hidden in his pants.  Its like a guy walking away from an atm with cash in his hand, or a bag of groceries... you don't think the muggers going to be able to grab that?

wtf

[mansa]

Assume you're in a hurry.  You've managed to knock them out, and you have 10 seconds to grab what you can.  You steal the obvious things, the belt, the backpack, the cloak..   and maybe his rings, and then you leave.

If you have more time on your hands, why don't you drag his sorry ass back to a room or alleyway, and sit there, and wait for him to wake up.  Threaten him.  He's half dead anyways.  He'll do anything you want, as long as he survives.

Break his leg, if you have to.  Create a torture scene.  

But if you don't have enough time to do that, then you don't have enough time to check every single pocket for the 'good' loot, and be satifidied with the loot you already have.

[TEH BANDIT]

No, you don't seem to understand.

If I am out in the wastes, with no one around as far as the eye can see, why should I make every precious second count?  Sure I won't be dallying around all day by the guy.  Hes going to wake up, and he might have buddies miles away?, but I'm going to take what I want.


It is not that hard to understand.
It could be a pile of armor a giant battle axe, a bulging sack or two.
The fact that they aren't wearing it can make it thief proof, no matter what it is.

Why should you always have to roleplay you are in a hurry, even when it makes no real sense?

What makes more sense.
Seeing the big, shiney, expensive two-handed obsidian battleaxe on the guy you just knocked out

-OR-

Not seeing it, because it was in his inventory.
Is there any reason not to change the code?

[Marauder Moe]

Delivery aside, this isn't that bad an idea.  Perheps just give it a long delay for those who don't actually have the skill.

[Lazloth]

Why would you need an especially long delay?  Unconscious people are essentially nosaved anyway.

[Marauder Moe]

Well, because people who don't steal things to survive probably haven't gotten the whole pat-them-down-and-search-all-pokets-really-fast thing quite right.

[TEH BANDIT]

For it does indeed take years of training to stick your hands in some guys pants pockets, and his jackets pockets without taking an hour.  Agreed.

[Bestatte]

Ya know - like Marauder Moe says, "delivery aside" this isn't a bad idea. Make the peek skill work the same as the steal skill for unconscious people. Anyone can steal, anyone can peek, if their victim is unconscious.

It's important to remember also though, Bandit..that being in someone's "inventory" doesn't mean it's in their hands. In fact it means it is NOT in their hands, because we have the "wield" and "hold" hand positions for that purpose.

Inventory items, just like in many other games, are assumed to be in virtual non-existent pockets that don't have flaps to close. So yes - you probably CAN see those items, but no, they're not just dangling off the guy's fingertips ready for you to nab.

[TEH BANDIT]

word

Inventory items, just like in many other games, are assumed to be in virtual non-existent pockets that don't have flaps to close. So yes - you probably CAN see those items, but no, they're not just dangling off the guy's fingertips ready for you to nab.

If that were the case, Half-Giants would be able to carry much more than normal people in their inventory.  After all, their pockets are a lot bigger.  I've always thought your inventory is what you are carrying... not exactally what is in your hands.  You can carry a lot of stuff that you aren't exactally grasping with your hands.

Fighting and such would be near impossible with stuff in your 'inventory' realistically.  It's just one of thoes things.[/i]

[EvilRoeSlade]

Most of the time people don't have anything in their inventory.  Unless you're deadbent on stripping them completely naked, I think that things are fine as they are.

Also, I think it would be a bad precedent to make peek work similar to steal on sleeping victims.  The way steal works on sleeping victims is already wildly unrealistic in many instances.  And besides, why play a pickpocket at all when a character with a high sap skill (a skill which is available to a subclass) is all that you need?

[Lazloth]

Oh get real.
Why not remove sap because you can simply kill someone instead?

There are different risks associated between the methods a mugger and a pickpocket employ, where authorities are concerned and elsewhere.  To your other argument, how is stealing from an unconscious person 'unrealistic'?

[jstorrie]

I see nothing wrong with allowing anyone to peek at an unconscious character.

I would, however, like there to be a separate echo for it, if you are unskilled, along the lines of 'such-and-such pats so-and-so down'.  Skilled peekers could, of course, peek away as usual.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Oh get real.
Why not remove sap because you can simply kill someone instead

Now why would we want to do a thing like that?  I apologize for refusing to argue a point that I never endorsed.

There are different risks associated between the methods a mugger and a pickpocket employ, where authorities are concerned and elsewhere.

And I like the idea that a pickpocket might be able to snatch something that a mugger might miss, even though a mugger tends to get away with more ill-gotten gains.

To your other argument, how is stealing from an unconscious person 'unrealistic'?

Let's take a look at what I said again.

The way steal works on sleeping victims is already wildly unrealistic in many instances.

As it stands, a warrior can steal the pants from a sleeping victim without anybody observing the act.  An act more difficult than any that a pickpocket could perform on a waking body, in my oh so humble opinion.

And now we want to give the warrior the ability to not only steal a sleeping person's pants, but also DISCREETLY rifle through all their belongings and take thorough stock of their inventory, an act that this warrior is currently incapable of doing DISCREETLY, while her victim is conscious.

The way the current code works, this is a step in the wrong direction.

[TEH BANDIT]

azloth wrote:
There are different risks associated between the methods a mugger and a pickpocket employ, where authorities are concerned and elsewhere.


And I like the idea that a pickpocket might be able to snatch something that a mugger might miss, even though a mugger tends to get away with more ill-gotten gains.

ZALANTHAS TO EVILROESLADE, COME IN EVILROESLADE
Try this on for size.
I am about to climb down a building into a popular street of a town.  I remove my sack, my weaps from my belt, and any expensive gear I have.  I fall, and get knocked out.

Guy comes along and sees me.  Aw, hes near naked, not even worth my time.  Guy goes on.

I wake up later, put my stuff back on, and go on my merry way.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Errr... okay.  I still maintain my points.

Though if an unskilled peeker's effort echoed to the entire room, and the victim as well, and incriminated the unskilled peeker if the flag in the room was appropriate, that would be better.

[TEH BANDIT]

ugh! I  am so regestering today!

continued:  Lets say the guy DOES try to rob me blind.  All he can steal from me is the few pieces of crap im wearing.

It would be very easy to rem stuff a short time before doing anything that might involve loss of conciousness, even if you just remove your pack to... 'root around in it for a sec'.

[TEH BANDIT]

Your 'points' have nothing to do with this thread.
We're not talking about steal on sleeping but concious people.

We're talking about being able to search unconcious people.

[EvilRoeSlade]

The code doesn't recognize the difference between sleeping and unconscious people, therefore my points have a lot to do with this thread.

As it stands, I haven't seen anybody strip naked when they were getting ready to use the way.

But I've seen and heard accounts of many, many people who WERE stripped naked when they decided to bunk down in the Gaj.