Hidden emotes revisited

[anon]

Alright, I just need to get this off my chest.
[vent]
If you -must- emote while hidden, please keep it to things that make sense to emote while hidden.

Things caused by movements, sounds maybe, possibly a brush against somebody, whatever, these things I at least can ignore, I can easily continue to play along that my char does not -see- this person or know they are there.

But emoting the color of your chars eyes, who he/she is looking at and readjusting your clothing while describing your chars physical nature while -hidden- is simply too much, it is too hard to play around...at least for me. And simply makes no sense IMO.

[/vent]

[ShaLeah]

Hidden people aren't invisible, it is very possible that someone, maybe not you, but someone can see them quite clearly. I don't see anything wrong with a pair of bright silver eyes suddenly appearing and disappearing when you walk down the street. Maybe you would even see such things and try to find what it was you think you saw.
If you see Someone, then obviously you can't clearly see them so you don't react and if you do react, it's not to stand up and spam scan.

I don't see anything wrong with getting the general idea of what's hidden, in fact, I applaud people who emote while hiding. It takes balls to make your presence known, even more balls to give clues as to what you are.

[Armaddict]

Er, so once we're hidden...we shouldn't emote anymore?

I don't care if your character wouldn't see it, that hidden person is still moving around, still interacting with things.  Some people feel like describing it.  They're having fun, leave it alone.

[origanel poster]

I disagree mostly, Oh, I have no problem with, as your example "a pair of bright silver eyes suddenly appearing and disappearing" That would be an example of a good hidden emote, or emote a quiet sound of rustling fathric is heard as @ passes through the shadows.

But, when it is something like "emote pulls his dusty dark cloak closer around his brawny shoulders as he stares at ~pc with his shiny silver eyes, smiling slightly and licking his teeth."

Come on now, that's simply too much.

I used to emote while hidden now and again, mostly environment style emotes, but I've since thought it over and decided it simply does not make since to give out the OOC info, nor do I think people want it, it is a distraction and often times hard to play around.

I'm rapidly becoming a fan of the hmote idea (or whatever it was) An emote that if you are hidden, only people who -can- see you will see.

Only my take of course.

[Armaddict]

Yeah, well, it's one of your peeves.

Some people could have another one.

Me, I have one against people who don't bother trying to spell.

[OP again]

Fathric? I must be tired, fabric.

Oh, and armaddict, like not bothering to spell on the GDB has anything to do with RP or Arm. {sniff sniff} almost smells like a flame..at least an unneeded dig.

Now, on to your post that actually ment something.

Er, so once we're hidden...we shouldn't emote anymore?

I don't care if your character wouldn't see it, that hidden person is still moving around, still interacting with things. Some people feel like describing it. They're having fun, leave it alone.

IMO, no.

And thats right, you don't care, and sure they are having fun and detracting from my enjoyment by giving out OOC info that I simply do not want or need, while also giving TONS of IC info that I should not have. Who is more important? Neither of course, but if one person "having fun" detracts from 5 peoples fun, now who is more important?

HMOTE command NEEDED, that would solve both problems. Yup.

[flashz00]

Er, so once we're hidden...we shouldn't emote anymore?

I don't care if your character wouldn't see it, that hidden person is still moving around, still interacting with things.  Some people feel like describing it.  They're having fun, leave it alone.

I totally agree with you. If you like emoting while your hidden then keep doing it, who gives a fuck if everyone instantly stands up and spams scan? I surely don't. I know it is a little rediciously for everyone to scan soon as -they- oocly see the emote, rather or not your pc may or may not  have been able to see.

[Meatwad]

So basically your character can't see him because he is hidden, yet somehow suddenly sees all this physical detail that is very in depth about what hte person looks like and what they are doing?  That's not right to me.  If you can't see a hidden person, how will you be able to suddenly notice they are licking their teeth?  I'd suggest to leave that stuff out when emoting while hidden.

Oh, and is there a reason people use IMO?  Isn't it fundamentally understood that what they are writing is their opinion unless otherwise stated?

[Armaddict]

Sure, now their player knows it.  Their character doesn't.

Are you going to use it?

[Meatwad]

Why would you even do that then?  That's like someone walking into a bar with 20 pcs and going
say (with a smirk) Anyone want to go hunting?
ooc I'm a sorceror haha

Why would you give away information like that?  It's jarring in ooc, it's jarring in a hidden emote when you gain the info and then have to play as if you didn't know it.

[ShaLeah]

This topic has been discussed before. Here, read this:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=78039&highlight=#78039


It is widely argued. I'm for the emoting. I can ignore IC'ly things I don't see while still admiring them OOC'ly. Like I said, it takes balls of steel to let people know you're around, even bigger balls to play through that if you're on the unsuspecting/unseeing end.

[Meatwad]

I am for emoting while hidden as well.  But then if it is your testicular fortitude you are showing off, don't even use the coded hide command, just emote it.  See how people react then when you are still there, able to be looked at, but only emoting being hidden.

[Cenghiz]

Err... this ain't a MUSH... People shouldn't be forced to play out such situations.. All of us don't have dice-sets with us. Code must roll the dices for me.
And, I won't play a sneaky char till hemote is implemented. It's kinda lame. It's both bad even if you emote or not.

Cenghiz, the whining b#!@h.

[OP]

Sure, now their player knows it. Their character doesn't.

Are you going to use it?

I should, since it is being forced on me, but then I don't think the ooc information should be forced on me, or the ic. I also don't see how anybody thinks it takes balls of steel to hidden emote, if anything it takes less balls seeing as MOST pc's -can't- see them.

Nowdays I do scan on a hidden emote, why, because like the hidden emote giving away OOC info, so does the scan echo (personaly I think the echo should go away and be like listen, after all, it's the same thing only paying more attention with your eyes not your ears) Since scan has a diration which is coded and ooc, the hidden emote did nothing but remind me, the player, not the pc, to reactivate this skill. The PC never stopped paying attention.

But my biggest beef with hidden emotes (restating) are any that tell me, the player, what your char is doing or gives anything away on your char's description. Bad enough letting me know your there at all.

[ShaLeah]

I am for emoting while hidden as well.  But then if it is your testicular fortitude you are showing off, don't even use the coded hide command, just emote it.  See how people react then when you are still there, able to be looked at, but only emoting being hidden.

It doesn't sound like you are, at all.

You'd emote the same if you were being watched or not, wouldn't you? Why would being hidden change your emoting at all. You don't seem to get it, a change in IC behavior (things your character would do normally anyway, things he'd bring attention to on any given day) because of coded change is  basically wrong. You're supposed to act the same way, consistently, it's like making a perfectly nice person completely snap and turn into a psycho killer because they stubbed their toe.
Let's say you're a merchant and your scan is maxed. Let's say you're sitting in a tavern, drinking with your cronies, and suddenly a someone emotes... what do you do?
You didn't see it. You should do nothing. You should definately not stand up and scan.
On the flip side...
Let's say you're a merchant and your scan is maxed. Let's say you're sitting in a tavern, drinking with your cronies, and you scanned before you sat down... your scan will still be in effect when that someone walks in. You type look. You see something. You look over... -then- it's okay to look.
It's the same principle.
I fail to see why giving clues to who you are in a hidden emote has any bearing at all whatsoever in your character reacting to something THEY CAN'T SEE. What.... are you gonna suddenly look at me when I'm not hidden and know it was me because you see that I still brush my brawny shoulders and bat my purple eyes and am wearing the same cloak?
Let me remind you.
You didn't fucking see me.

[Meatwad]

Wow...sorry to bring on the wrath of ShaLeah.  Didn't know expressing a point of view would get me sworn at.

[OP]

And the scan, as a skill is OOC too Shalaeh, no reason to not stand up and make sure it is active, specialy when somebody was so nice as to give away to me, the player that it way have worn off.

As to being consistant in your IC actions, this has nothing to do with emotes, as has been stated by staff, RP does not equal emoting and vice versa.  And your right, My PC can't see you, so stop forcing me to ignore it, as was said before, it's jarring at the very least, plus I'm forced to double check sometimes even scrollback in a tavern to see if it was a hidden emote or not before my char reacts.

But really, I don't want to know, I want my char to react naturaly to the things that actually happen to him, and this gets tainted by my OOC knowledge. it is much easier for your pc to act suprised if you really were.

Like I said before, I'm all for emoting the things you do, but if pc's are not supposed to be able to see you, keep it that way.

[Cenghiz]

You're the 19853rd person arguing this subject, Meatwad. It's all discussed. From now on an imm must tell us if it's OK to emote, how much is OK, if there's going to be 'hemote' or such. Anybody else arguing about this topic is doing nothing. It's waste of time.
But I'm sure 100% percent that if you stand and scan suddenly after 'someone' emotes a think, it's frowned upon. We call this "twinkish behaviour".

>sleep
You lie down and sleep
.....
Someone grins staring at you, then he reaches for your white silk sash.

... So? Code someone gives us a little OOC info. Just learn to ignore it. Or you'd prefer waking up without the coins in your sash, not knowing anything about it?

[ShaLeah]

And the scan, as a skill is OOC too Shalaeh, no reason to not stand up and make sure it is active, specialy when somebody was so nice as to give away to me, the player that it way have worn off.

That I can perfectly understand, but standing up and scanning immediately after a Someonemote seems a bit shady to me. Convenient, and twinky.

[Meatwad]

Actually Cenghiz, I would prefer to wake up not knowing anything about it.  That's what my character would know, and I wouldn't want to know anything more playing him, so that no bias would enter my playing even unintentionally.

[Ghost]

Ok, talking about the same subject again, are we?

I agree somewhat with the original poster.  I am all -against- emoting blindly while hidden.  If you want to emote while hidden, make it a good one.  Make it such that, even if my character has seen your action, he would not give a shit.  Well, it has already been discussed to death, so I wont go in much detail.  

If you want to express your actions, you can use "think" emote.  It works well, I tell you.  I always use them, if I am playing a sneaky char.  Or you can use "change ldesc" it is also fine.

If you want to remain hidden, do it.  Dont force me to ignore what I am seeing on the screen.  What is the reason in letting me know about it?  

Now if you still dont care about "think" emotes or such, and you are still persistent to use "emote", and if you are putting an emote like:
"emote watches ~you in the shadowed corner of the tavern, behind a thick crowd of patrons"
AND so you are forcing me to ignore some lines on the screen I am seeing, then please ignore my scanning echoes, and dont whine about spam-scanners.

EDIT:  Sorry, the post my sound a little offensive, because of seeing it a million times maybe.  Please dont take any offense, and let me add:
I have forced myself to ignore a few -really- stupid emotes, and I tell you, it steals every bit of fun from me.  So I am totally against hidden emoters.  I would like you to hide those lines from me, as you have hidden yourself.  Or make it a good one, a good VNPC like echo (looks cryptic does not it) so we can both have fun without punching each other in the face

[Forest Junkie]

Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala

Here it comes j00s, I've reached the breaking point:

If I hear another person gripe about how a hidden emote ruins their fun and experience. Their concept and flow. Their ooc intentions. Their evening of mudsex and asskissing. Their glass of Reynolte's finest, along with a sliver of spiced tandu sausage. If I hear -any- more boohooing in regards to hidden emotes, or the players that perform them, I will suspend every offender upside down from my garage and proceed to beat their tender asses with a metal-spiked paddle.

It's been driven into the ground. It's been debated. People have killed each other over it. Wars were fought. Countries conquered. Entire civilizations destroyed.

AND WE STILL HAVE NOT COME TO AN AGREEMENT.

Until a highlord comes ON this board, states that HIDDEN EMOTES are BAD JUUJUU, I will continue to use hidden emotes at my discretion. Granted, I stick to wilderness hidden emotes rather than the city kind, but that's my style. But if nessalin da slayer himself comes on this board and says he doesn't like it and wishes ALL of hidden emoting to stop, then so be it, I'll obey. Until that day comes, however, you can bet I'll toss out an emote if I feel the need.

And with that, Junkie disappears in a flash of powder.

*tip-toes up behind your unsuspecting ass, knowing fully you can't use OOC methods to discover him! BWAHAHAHAHA*

[WhiteRanger (Logged out)]

Basically what it boils down to is, when someone is emoting while they are hidden, they arent doing it to give your characters information, they are doing it to better describe thier actions for you so that when they slip a dagger into your back, or pick the coins out of your pocket, you can better react to the situation, they are doing it to help your role play, so dont bitch at them for trying to help you. They are trying at the very least to entertain themselves and the rest of the room, if it irritates you, then I suggest you leave the room.

Its like this, if someone is hidden on top of your wooden statue of a kank in your apartment, and they jump down from atop the statue driving thier dagger down at the top of your head.....but they dont emote that before backstabbing you,,,when it drives through to your brain and you might have a split second to emote something before your pitiful death, what will you emote? Probably just falling over, but if they emote jumping down and slamming thier obsidian blade into your skull, the chances are you will have a much better chance to increase the quality of the events around you by adding your own twist to the scenario....just because you wouldnt see him pull the dagger from his belt atop your statue of a kank, dosent mean they shouldnt emote it,,,they are just trusting that you arent some pathetic code abusing, ooc knowledge using piece of ARM VIRAL STREET TRASH.........


*WhiteRanger who probably got a little carried away...sorry*  :twisted:

[jhunter]

I'm not afraid of you FJ...  I scoff at your paddle.

I'm one who's against hidden emoting, it does ruin the experience for me as I've posted several times before. :roll:  
If someone can't respect that and persists on doing it with me, then I've no respect for them if they don't care about ruining the experience for me and insist on giving me OOC info that I don't want or need.  

I prefer to be in an emotional state of surprise along -with- my pc and have surprises revealed to both of us at the same time.
It is:

1) More fun for me the player.

2) Keeps me immersed in my role instead of taking me out of my role.

3) It also creates a more realistic response as my pc and I both found out at the same time and can respond accordingly.

*sigh* I'm sick of the subject popping up as well...this'll be the last time I post on the subject...I think I'll just link together my past responses from now on. *Goes off to make a better paddle than FJ's.*

HEMOTE!!!HEMOTE!!!HEMOTE!!!HEMOTE!!!

*Drops down on the ground and begs profusely.*

[ShaLeah]

I prefer to be in an emotional state of surprise along -with- my pc and have surprises revealed to both of us at the same time.

But will you be the first one to bitch about dying without any emotes? -chuckle-

Ah, the irony. People want interaction, but then they don't because it ruins the surprise.

Get my adrenaline pumping with the ooc knowledge of your presence. Force me to act in character and stick with it despite my knowing behind the screen what's going to happen. Challenge me. Make me better. I'm all for it.