You are wanted!

[Anonymous]

You are wanted...

Don't you just hate that? What I dislike more about this common phrase (to some) is that no matter where you are in the city, no matter how many npc or pc guards or people are around you, no matter what the time is, no matter the setting, you just can't get away with it. I don't know about some of you, but this is really frustrating. (Sorry, not trying to be harsh towards any imms..., please don't take this the wrong way  :roll: , just  making a suggestion in a negative way :cry:)

Anyways, as I've learned, there is supposedly guards in just about every corner of the major cities (Tuluk and Alanak to be more specific). When one commits a crime, the "made-up" guards or soldiers see you automatically and attempt to put you at arrest.

This is kind of stupid, and here's why:

1. There's no way that there is this many guards. There would have to be more guards than citizens!
2. Why is every guard extremely uber? This makes no sense as a common guard or soldier would have minimal training since all they do is watch the streets 24/7.

This is my arguement. (Please don't hate me imms!)

-If you agree to this or disagree, please comment!!!

[blah]

It's true, it doesnt make good roleplay either, invisible guard... hah.. i say only be wanted if you commit a crime that can possibly be seen/heard by anyone else. not imginary guard.

[Agent_137]

I haven't done anything illegal yet in the midst of a city, but I always thought that it depended on the room desc. A busy room during the day, you'll get seen by all the VNPCs. An empty side street in the dark of night? You should be able to get away with it. Why else have a thug subclass?

Give guards regular routes. Sneaking isn't just about being coded. If there's no guards but you get seen by a VNPC, have the guards come charging down the street, and not just appear in the room.

Like i said, I haven't had any personal experience with the criminal system, but this seems to be something that just plain makes sense.

[Larrath]

Allanak and Tuluk are both pretty damned enormous city-states, first of all.  If you look at their plazas and streets and all that, you'll see just how packed they are (especially 'Nak).

Second of all, why should the city-state NOT train its guards?  Okay, so guards are put out on the streets, but 24/7?  Think more realistically, there is a guard in that position, but it's not the same guard all the time.  They probably change shifts every half-day or so.  Yes, Allanak does have a lot of soldiers and guards, these people get a pretty solid pay and free food and water.

Considered what most Allanaki commoners get, that's a pretty good deal.

The guards are not THAT uber, either, at least as far as I know.  It's safe to assume that they fight like men and women in their prime (which they probably are) who have pretty good armor and weapons (which they probably have) and train and eat regularly (which they do).  Not to mention, of course, the training that these people get before they get assigned to watch the streets for errant half-giants and all that.

The time of day probably DOES matter, and I don't think it's true that it's impossible to attack people -anywhere- without getting away with it.
On the other hand, think about it like this.

You attack someone in the street and you can bet your ass that there will be some noise.  Combining this with the use of the Way, it does not take much to alert the guards to your presence.

I understand where you are coming from, but the best I can suggest is that if you get wanted in a room that you think should be 'safe', try typoing the room and possibly wishing up, depending on the sitution.


Clarification: I am not saying "If you get wanted, wish up", but if you get wanted attacking a stray mob inside "The Abandoned Alleyway", which is loaded with dust and has obviously (and specifically, by the desc) has not been visited for years, then you might want to wish up, if you think it's important enough.  Every rule has its exception, though, and a little prison time never hurt anyone, either.

[Ender]

In regards to your first point of the amount of guards, you have to remember it's not always a guard who sees you first.  Many of the commoners will rat you out for various reasons.

Blatantly attacking someone is loud unless you take care of it through clandestine means (knocking him/her out from behind, slitting his/her throat).  If you're going all out weapons slashing at someone you're going to alert the entire block as that NPC isn't going to just sit there and take it.  A sloppy murder is going to illicit an NPC screaming for help even if codewise they aren't actually screaming.

Stealing: if you fudge up a steal, the NPC/PC you stole from is going to be VERY pissed.  You may have just stole his/her livlihood.  Without the penance of 'sid or bread, that person may not live out the day.

Many onlookers report crimes for various reasons.  To get in good with the corrupt militia, or even to direct their attention away from their own crimes.  Maybe you picked on someone they knew.  Any number of reasons could be the reason.

The moral of this story is this subject have been given a tremendous amount of thought to over the years by player and staff alike.  I feel the system at the moment is very realistic given the limitations of the code at the moment.

[spawnloser]

First I will comment on 'suspension of disbelief.'  Yes, those mob npcs monitor 24/7.  Most of them wouldn't do so realistically, though.  It is probably best to think of them as having shifts that they switch through.

Second, you become wanted...the soldiers are all telepathic to some limited degree.  It is not too unrealistic for them to be able to pass that information along quite quickly.

Just a couple thoughts.

[ShaLeah]

You are wanted...

Don't you just hate that?

I hate

You are fighting for your life!

even more.  :cry:

[Carnage]

People have been able to walk into stores, grab merchandise, then bolt right out all under surveillance cameras. They've managed to get away or not get caught even with the trained police forces and all the high-tech equipment they have.

[ShaLeah]

People have been able to walk into stores, grab merchandise, then bolt right out all under surveillance cameras. They've managed to get away or not get caught even with the trained police forces and all the high-tech equipment they have.

And yet not one of those high teched gadgets have the ability to instantly contact someone through ESP to let them know they need to dispatch people to find a caucasian male about five ten weighing two hundred pounds with a scar in the middle of his forehead and blue eyes.
This is a magickal place, it's run by sorceror kings who have a tight grip on everyone's balls.

Playability people, use your imagination.

[Geekfreak]

I think this is an excellent point. The law enforcement in both major cities is too extreme and should be taken down a few notches.

Good point. Well made.

[Agent_137]

And yet not one of those high teched gadgets have the ability to instantly contact someone through ESP to let them know they need to dispatch people to find a caucasian male about five ten weighing two hundred pounds with a scar in the middle of his forehead and blue eyes.

the cell phone, maybe?


My question, if I've got my hood up, can I commit the crime, run, dive into a quiet space, change clothes, and be in the clear?

[SpyGuy]

You can still get away with many crimes, you just get wanted if you fail.

The unfair part is that, AFAIK you cant cover yourself up enough/use disguise enough to avoid detection.  There arent lineups, the police or whoever automatically know who you are.  A limitation of the code, but one I'm willing to personally overlook.

[spawnloser]

Maybe they spot you and have the dude that originally saw you contact your mind to identify you in that fashion?

[Carnage]

And yet not one of those high teched gadgets have the ability to instantly contact someone through ESP to let them know they need to dispatch people to find a caucasian male about five ten weighing two hundred pounds with a scar in the middle of his forehead and blue eyes.

the cell phone, maybe?


My question, if I've got my hood up, can I commit the crime, run, dive into a quiet space, change clothes, and be in the clear?

Along with police dispatch radios, which broadcast the signal to everyone listening rather than one at a time.

[waroth]

I could be wrong, but I think you forget about the virtual NPC population.  There very well could be guards around who are not NPC's but virtual NPC's.  I don't really see a large problem with it myself, but this is only my opinion.  I try to justify it in mind as either commoners saw you do it and shouted it to nearby virtual NPC guards or a virtual NPC guard saw you do it themselves.  I also imagine when you do commit it, it is like in RL when a criminal is spotted, the crowds part as the criminal runs away, leaving a clear trail for the guards to follows as other commoners point the direction you ran.  Who knows, maybe I am using a bit too much imagination.

[Bhagharva]

I noticed that those of you who know how to commit a crime successfully have been rather silent. Good for you. The dungeons need more lackluster thieves and murderers.  :twisted:

Crimes are commited every day in both city-states, some even go unpunished. If you are getting arrested and it wasn't a bug, you deserve every second of the time you spend in jail, which I might add, is a light sentance. The criminals almost always struggle, they almost always have a weapon out when the soldiers come. If you get attacked, and whupped, again you deserve it. I won't say that the justice system isn't harsh, thank goodness it is though.

I think that there should be just as many empty places as their are places full of npc's. I don't buy the argument that every square is full of NPC's and virtuall NPC's.

I think that part of the problem is that you need a lot of OOC knowledge about the code and game to be a sucessful thief and ppl delight in holding back info like that. That's just my opinion.

[Tamarin]

We've had this argument soooooooo many times.  Nothing is going to change.  It's fine as it is.  If you can't avoid the law, you aren't trying hard enough.

[Delirium]

You don't need a bunch of OOC info, you just need a healthy dose of common sense..

[Chronicle]

People have been able to walk into stores, grab merchandise, then bolt right out all under surveillance cameras. They've managed to get away or not get caught even with the trained police forces and all the high-tech equipment they have.

And yet not one of those high teched gadgets have the ability to instantly contact someone through ESP to let them know they need to dispatch people to find a caucasian male about five ten weighing two hundred pounds with a scar in the middle of his forehead and blue eyes.
This is a magickal place, it's run by sorceror kings who have a tight grip on everyone's balls.

Playability people, use your imagination.

I disagree... Its called the news.

[Ralin]

I have yet to see the news just suddenly break in cause the Quicky Mart was robbed of five dollars and thirty cents, unless the clerk was killed, and in most cases, you still don't find that out until five 'o clock (or regulary scheduled news).

[Chronicle]

And thank you for yet another smart-ass remark when you know exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone is mostly speaking of openly attacking someone or murder which would be a far hideous crime than stealing $5 from some jackass working a late-night shift at a gas station. And as you put it, "unless the clerk was killed", thus proving my point :!:

[Callisto]

The crim code works well enough.

The problem is a lot of places have super NPCs and carefully scripted patrol routes/NPC placement to make sure there is no chance for a criminal PC to get more then six or seven squares without encountering an NPC super soldier.

Soldiers in Allanak enter the room and subdue in two unbroken lines of text*. If they fail, that block of unbroken text it extended to drawing weapons and making four to six attacks, plus an extra combat skill, in that same block of text.

Short of hiding and shadowing someone until your criminal flag wears off, the odds of pulling off a successful crime in public is almost impossible for the average rogue. That isn't even counting how insane people get about spreading the word on every PC thief that comes down the pipe, either.

We either need the NPCs toned down or some kind of time delay before the criminal flag kicks in, something to allow the virtual report to spread virtually, even if its just 10 seconds or so. Enough time to flee past a guard before he knows whats happening, or turn nosave on, or draw weapons and prepare to die.

*Like this:

Soldier arrives from east.
Soldier fails to grab you.
Soldier draws sword.
Soldier draws sword.
Soldier shouts inane battle cry.
Soldier slashes you.
Soldier slashes you.
Soldier slashes you.
Soldier slashes you.
Soldier fails to kick you.

[Pungee]

I hate to be the Evil One(TM) of the group but, you know for all the trouble the crim code has, like with how harsh it is and for how many criminals I've had that have died to it - I still like the crim code.

Yes, the soldiers first attack is disgustingly powerful, they tend to annhilate most PCs on the first impossibly one sided round. I've died more than once to that. But the thing is, nosave fixes that and you end up in jail, still quite alive.

Next, for as much as people say the Crim Code is impossible to beat, there still is a -great- deal of crime that happens without the perps ever being caught. That's because the criminals that can beat it took the time to learn how, this weeds out a lot of the standard and poorly played criminal types. So I think the crim code is just fine the way it was. If it werent for the fact that some newbies body is found every day or so, because he tried to commit a crime and fight the law afterwards, then I imagine we'd have tons and tons of criminals and no people with anything of value would be left alive or with things of value. Society would flip flop, oceans would form, the shield wall would crumble and we'd all be living under the thumb of the fish king.

Or something like that.

[sarahjc]

The one thing I do hate about the Crim-flag is the way you go down.. The soldiers are way too strong.. Most PC's don't even have a chance.. Also I agree that if you do get more than 4 rooms away that you have some chance of survival should you loose the cloak and drop the weapons you just used, or tossed the item you just stole. Not a great chance, because you do have "the way" to inform people. But if the city streets are as crowded as we all say.. I can only assume that you would be just as fast to get lost in a crowd as you are spotted in one.

Take NYC as the perfect example.. Around 1pm or so.. There are tons of people on the streets and thanks to the evens of recent years.. There are about 1-3 cops every 2 blocks or so.. Which is plenty of police presence and very comparable to Zalanthian standards I would think.. Lets start the scene on 6th Ave and 42nd street (AkA the north road)

I'll play it out like this..

Let's say that you are wearing a black hat, blue hooded jacket and a pair of Nike sneakers.. You have a Jansport backpack in your hand. (A face wrap, hooded cloak and a pair of sturdy traveling boots, canvas backpack)

You accidentally bump an unassuming passer by, and lift his wallet, he feels you do it, he grabs your hand and shouts "Theif!"  Now you break your hand free from him as a cop (legionnaire) is turning around to the see where the cry is coming from reaching for his Walky Talky  (the way) To lay out the scene and what he has seen over the crowd and call for assistance. Then as he is yelling into the walky talky (using the way), he gives you chase.

You flee.. East, You start running.. First block, you drop the wallet and your hood flies down (lower hood) in the sprint and you toss your hat. (rem face wrap) The first cop is so far back he hasn't seen you do that.  So now the description that he is give is skewed..

Then you run east again.

You run into Broadway and 42nd street Times Square (the red sun commons) The place is sprawling with people.. You have to push some out of the way as they give you dirty looks, but you find your way into a thick crowd and slow your pace to a walk. You take off your jacket, balling it up tightly and slip on your backpack. (rem cloak, wear backpack)  

As you move into the crowded street with a brisk yet unhurried walk, you take a glance over your shoulder.. You spot a few police officers (legionaries) looking very alert, there are maybe 4 that you can spot.. All seem to be looking for something.. You take a breath and cross when the light changes, along with the hordes of people.

At the next block you find an empty waist paper bin.. You toss in the jacket and move down a few more blocks. You find a small park and take a seat near the swings.. A couple of cops walk right by you, one is speaking about how his son clogged the toilet with a toy boat last night. They are laughing and walking at a leisurely pace.. They pay you no mind.. You take a deep breath and sigh.

Think: That was lucky.
Sorry for the long story.. But I do think it is unrealistic that a shadier type cannot escape the legion.. There should be room to get away.. Or at least hide, especially if you are taking efforts to hide what you look like from the start. Not to say that it should be all the time.. But  50/50 shot of getting caught, but still getting off with it..

Just my take on it with a real life example anyway..