Confusion with thief commands

[Anonymous]

I need some advice with thief commands... it doesnt seem possible to grab merchant wares, "steal ring merchant's pack" tells me there isnt such a thing even though peek showed it in his pack. Also, peek never shows coins or inventory items, does that change at higher skill? I noticed it seems possible to go for coin sometimes, even though peek didnt show it.

[Anonymous]

something else, often I am cuffed on the side of the head by the NPC, does that mean it was a failure? And why? Why dont they call a guard instead of cuffing me? I dont get it

[Carnage]

something else, often I am cuffed on the side of the head by the NPC, does that mean it was a failure? And why? Why dont they call a guard instead of cuffing me? I dont get it

It means they're watching you and just hit you in your head to tell you that they saw you and to knock it the fudge off.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, but what about the commands not working? Its hard to play a thief who cant steal cause the code doesnt let him =P

[Delirium]

I'd look around more... if you think about it logically, merchants are probably always going to be on the lookout for thieves. Your average joe just walking down the road may or may not be.

[Morrolan]

I suspect that by "pack" it means inventory.

"Steal coins merchant"

(though you might want to look at previous (and future) posts in this thread...)

Morrolan

[mansa]

Now, there's a difference, here.

>peek merchant

and

>peek merchant's pack


When you successfully peek on someone, you see their items they are wearing, and then...it will echo something like this.

Code Select Expand

The quiet bartender is using:
<worn on torso>          a loose white cotton shirt with silk trim
<worn on legs>           an ecru silk pteryges
<worn on feet>           a pair of brown sandcloth boots
Peering into his pack, you see the following items:
a sturdy soapstone mug


That 'sturdy soapstone mug' is not actually in his 'pack', so to say.  It's in his inventory.  To steal that mug from him, type..

>steal mug bartender


Now, if you saw someone else, with a backpack on, you can actually peek INSIDE the backpack.  And, if you're good enough, you can steal what's INSIDE the backpack.  But, only if they are wearing a container item.

[Xygax]

Your first problem is a syntax one, I suspect.

If you "peek" at someone, and you see something "in their pack", you're really just looking at their inventory.  Try "steal item soandso"

> peek templar

Peering into his pack you see the following items:
a grain of polka-dot colored spice
a couple empty shotglasses

> steal spice templar
.... .....
Got it!



When you want something from someone's actual "backpack" you'll know, because you'll have peeked into it:

> peek templar's pack

Peering into the angry, glowing-eyed templar's leather backpack you see:
an iron longsword

> steal longsword templar's pack
....  long pause here, during which you sweat profusely ....
Got it!


That's how it works.

[Anonymous]

Problem is, the average Joe never has anything that can possibly be stolen... boots, tunics etc definitely dont fit into that category  

[grog]

I like pickpockets, I would have to say I've had my most fun with them.  I find the trick in the beginning is think small, go for small cheap things, rather then that steel dagger he is keeping a death grip on.  (Though my  thief would be tempted, that's when you find out where the guy lives, make some friends of loose moral values, and do a proper mugging.  :twisted: )  

Find friends, and then find chumps.  Friends are the ones you won't betray, chumps are the guys who you steal from, complain to them about being robbed and then get together with to track down the damn thief and get your money back! ("Oh look, he must have spent it all on that steel dagger!")

[Anonymous]

Grog... I need your advice. In like 20 attempts I got one dagger, else nothing. Been in jail twice. I just cant figure out how to succeed without being caught every bloody time, even small things like cheap earrings tell me "That would be impossible to steal". The only thing that always works (and always gets me wanted and caught 10 seconds later) is coins.

*sigh*

[Irulan]

Something I would recommend checking out is the Thief's Bible... http://www.armageddon.org/rp/bible.html
Found here. It is pretty good reading.
Enjoy!

-Irulan

[Anonymous]

I can roleplay a thief just fine... thats not the problem. I just simply am the most unsuccessful pickpocket ever. Even eyeless old beggars point and laugh at me. I have no clue why. Nothing can be removed except daggers hanging from belts (and I've seen one of those in 3 RL days) and coin, which is a direct ticket into jail (and never succeeds)

[Delirium]

It's not that we're suggesting that you can't RP a thief-- the guide has a lot of good pointers in many respects. I'd suggest taking a look through it as well. Can always learn something new anyway, right?

[grog]

Welcome to the life of a thief.   In the beginning you have to go for the soft con, (Not using hard coded commands like steal) practicing steal can be really hard in the beginning and after you fail to steal from someone they transform from 'mark' to 'threat'.    Talk to people, learn what type of cons work, and what types don't.  

As for practicing steal, I like the drifter and the regular.  The drifter goes to different location everyday, not going back to the same place till a few weeks have passed.  The regular always goes to the same place to work, but rarely, if ever,  steals from the people who are always there, in fact it may be good to role-play out little friendships and bribes with NPC's, virtual and otherwise. (and other PC regulars if such exist)  

This is just how I did it, there are countless other ways, and part of the fun is finding them out for yourself.

And the thief bible is great to read, even if you don't use any of it.

[ashjpd]

I am with you man, playing theives are hard. I have never had a long living, succesful theif. And I think I never will, but it is a challenge worth working for. I would suggest maybe joining a house and working on your theiving skills in secrecy, it might give you a good start.
You can't be stealing iron swords every day with a new char, you know what I mean?
I bet it is one of those things, that when you are good at it, it is easy from then on.

Shrug*

[sacac]

When they shout Thief! Thief!
You know what? Everyone withen earshot is looking for a thief..
And if you one of those thieves that try and steal until they got it, on a guy that keeps screaming Thief! Thief!
STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes..ook I have had two thieves that lived for over an IC year.. But I didn't steal from everyone I saw with coins.. or You target someone with not so good contacts (I reccomend this one) And hope there one good contact happens to be a templar and a guy thats been looking for you for months..  :twisted: And who happens to rip your arms off "On accident"

[Kalden]

I have to wonder if these guys who complain about always getting caught are playing burglars, not pickpockets.

I'm having trouble critically failing. I can only faintly remember the last time I even had a minor failure, too. Then again, I'm playing an elf with good agility. That certainly helps.

[Anonymous]

"And if you one of those thieves that try and steal until they got it, on a guy that keeps screaming Thief! Thief!
STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!! "

I dont. Its shitty rp too.

I usually walk out and several rooms away, then try to hide, and run into a group of soldiers. I probably forgot to actually switch walk speed to running, maybe thats why?

[Carnage]

Of course you're going to have a very, very, very difficult time stealing the earrings right off of someone's ears without them noticing. Use common sense and the helpfiles. It says that wearable items will be harder to remove.

[sacac]

that is good..
You can't steal the pants right off of a templar.. without taking off there belt, shoes and thong
So.. keep it ovbious.. experiment with a couple characters.. and you have it made

[Anonymous]

So basically its hardly possible to steal anything at all at start... merchants pay too much attention, commoners only have worn items, and coins always get me caught.  

[Angela Christine]

I don't think anyone will be able to offer much more help than this here.  People don't want to give away anything that might be IC sensitive, or give away anything that would ruin the experience for people who enjoy figureing out things for themselves.  You could try the Helpers, I don't think any of them specialize in thieves but some do specialize in newbie stuff and one claims to specialize in "Everything."

IC help would be better than OOC help.  You understand the syntax, but you are having trouble selecting appropriate targets and finding ways to practice that don't get you killed or jailed, and those are mostly in character problems.  Finding a teacher would help tremendously.  Obviously you can't check the want ads for people advertising as pickpocket instructors, because no one would advertise, there aren't any want ads, and even if there were you character doesn't know how to read.  I don't know how you'd go about finding an IC mentor.  

One of my first characters was a ranger, and in my newbiness I had my ranger practicing wilderness sneak while I was collecting stones outside the city.  Naturally I forgot to turn sneak off when I came back in, so I was left looking like a jackass failing sneak checks all the way to the bazaar.  Within a couple days I was contacted by a member of the Guild!  It didn't go anywhere, and I didn't figure out it was the Guild until a couple months later, but it was nifty.  I'd kept the character alive and visible for two or three weeks before my public sneaking, so that other players in Allanak got used to seeing me around and expecting that I wasn't going to get myself killed right away, so that probably helped.  The guild PCs were used to seeing me around so when I did something theify they approached me in a memorable fasion.  That was cool.

So my advice would be to lay off the theiving for a few weeks, and let people used to seeing you around.  Practice sneaking and hiding in out-of-the-way places (not main street or taverns) because being able to sneak and hide well is very helpful, but sneaking poorly just tells everyone that you are a thief.  If you don't own anything valuable you could practice sneaking in the 'rinth, practically everyone sneaks there so it won't attract attention.  Finding the buisnesses that operate out of the 'rinth could be helpful too, if you ever do steal anything you'll want a safe place to fence the loot, right?  And 'rinth taverns are good places to make contacts with shady types of people.  

Meanwhile develop a cover story, a secret identity, for dealing with mainstream society.  You don't want  everyone to think you are a criminal or a bum, so have a respectable job.  It could be a real job with a clan, or a freelance job like glass miner, salt miner, grebber, basket weaver,  and so on.  Having an actual crafting skill can be great for convincing people you are an honest, hard working citizen.  While you can actually make a living at these jobs, you don't have to, you just have to *look* like you are making a living at them.  So if you claim to work mining obsidian and glass, buy yourself a glasshacker and sheath it on your back, go out and try getting a few chunks of obsidian near the city (stay on the roads) so that you know a little about it.  If you are pretending to be a crafter, then make or buy a few pieces of your craft and carry them around with you, whip 'em out to show people now and then to prove that you really are a crafter.  If you claim to be a salt miner, then get a salt sack and few pieces of salt to put in it, and keep it in your pack -- that way if a Templar or soldier searches you you have evidence that you are just a simpler salt miner.  If you claim to be a hunter, then buy the cheapest bow you can find and sheath it on your back, and dress like a hunter.

You're thiefy skills won't rot if you don't use them, so you can afford to spend time making contacts and developing a cover story for yourself.  In the long run it will make you a more successful thief.  Be smart, stuipid thieves are soon dead theives.

AC

[Carnage]

So basically its hardly possible to steal anything at all at start... merchants pay too much attention, commoners only have worn items, and coins always get me caught.  

I know, what a fucked up system. You can't steal the shirt off someone's back. This MUD is so unfair and poorly balanced, let's start a thread in code discussion about it!

[Anonymous]

"I know, what a fucked up system. You can't steal the shirt off someone's back. This MUD is so unfair and poorly balanced, let's start a thread in code discussion about it!"

That was totally unnecessary and out of place sarcasm, because no one criticized the system. I was merely asking for some advice, coming from a MUD that only "encourages" roleplay and supports little realism I need to get used to Arm.

I was making a simple statement with a trace of humour (thus the tongue smiley), and I do enjoy finding a way around the problem. I simply need to get used to the realism, and I needed some startup pointers. Its understandable that most worn items are near impossible to remove, but I was confused that peek never shows coins (even though they seem to be there) and nearly no NPC seems to have any sort of belt purse. I was also a bit surprised by the lack of a command to try and open a belt container to look into it before peeking (or maybe I just havent discovered it yet).