Confusion with thief commands

[Bestatte]

I'll admit that I haven't read the thief guide (having never played a thief, I haven't needed to yet), so I'll add some general tips to help you with the realism aspect of things. Oh and ignore Carnage. He's like that with just about everything.

1) Belt purses (pouched belts) aren't the only "container objects" people can wear.

2) "Peek" will be your best friend as an aspiring thief, but mechanical info: if you fail to "peek" effectively, people will see you "look" at them. Eventually that skill will improve and your "peek" will be more sneaky and unnoticed.

3) Some container objects close, some don't.

4) Your choice of earning sids doesn't have to rely on the steal skill. You could try a "cover" to explain your character's existence, and worm your way into some unsavory person's livelihood through sheer wit and street smarts, thus giving yourself a mentor/tutor to help you learn the ropes of your avocation.

5) Expect to go to jail. Carry food and water with you just in case you're stuck there a few days, because cockroaches, well, they just don't taste all that good and you need something to wash them down with

6) You could try using your jail experience as an opportunity, rather than a punishment. Think of the power the person has, who lets you out. Decide if that person is someone who might actually have use for someone with your primitive and untrained skills. Who knows? Maybe Lord Templar Hardnose needs a sneaky low-down nasty thief like you and even hook you up with one of his better-skilled sneaky low-down nasty thief super sekrit employees to help you get better!

7) Tread carefully on #6. Let your character's personality decide if he has the smarts to even try such a thing, let alone think of it.

Don't be too upset if you end up dead. Sneaky types are tough at first, especially if you're brand new to the game.

Good luck, and may the farce be with you!

[Quirk]

I have to wonder if these guys who complain about always getting caught are playing burglars, not pickpockets.

I'm having trouble critically failing. I can only faintly remember the last time I even had a minor failure, too. Then again, I'm playing an elf with good agility. That certainly helps.

I hear you. I had an elven pickpocket once with exceptional agility. I cannot remember him ever having a critical fail; he could swipe even swords from belts with impunity.

If you mean to make your living stealing directly from others, make a pickpocket. Burglars may have a wider variety of skills, but they suffer from a lack of specialisation. Where pickpockets specialise, they are very good.

Quirk

[X-D]

Don't worry about Carnage, somebody pisses in his wheaties every morning.

[Sacac's Ghost]

First off.. We need whoever was posting as guest..
Second off, There are a lot of things you can steal, it just might not be you pickpocketing, but you will find something.

AC.. great job..

[Anonymous]

I'm not a burglar. Pickpocket with very high agility, but not a elf, maybe thats why.  

I get a lot of critical and non-critical failures.

[Gar]

A lot of good advice here.  I have some ideas for you, cover, cover, cover.  Come up with a good cover story.  I think you're focusing too heavily on the "coded" skills.  I've always thought a good thief would be one who steals things.  Not necessarily picking pockets but stealing things.  There are ways to gain access to places and steal away.  Join a clan!  Sure they'll hunt you down like a dog if/ when they find out but you can always relocate.  Maybe you don't rob them blind but wait until you get more and more trust.  Then go after the good stuff.  Or try to sell things for inflated prices.  That's stealing.  Or how about "Give me a hundred coins for this sword."  You take the coins and "Yoink, I'm out of here!"  I've hung around taverns and such "stealing" information by listening to conversations.  You can then sell the "stolen" information for a price to the right person.  I've even altered the stories to make them more marketable.  You can go on and on about stealing without picking someones pockets.  In the meanwhile, practice your skills in places where you won't be seen by the greater population.

[Carnage]

I'm going to be quite blunt here. As X-D said, someone pisses into my cereal every morning.

First of all, the answers to your questions were in the helpfiles. A simple look at help skill_peek: "This skill will allow you to look at a person's equipment list and what
they are carrying (in their inventory, which is listed as being 'in their
pack'), without them noticing." Next, most of it is common sense and things that can easily be looked into. "something else, often I am cuffed on the side of the head by the NPC, does that mean it was a failure? And why? Why dont they call a guard instead of cuffing me? I dont get it" It means you can't steal from them since the NPC guard(s) is keeping watch. Why don't they call a guard? Because generally it's only newbies who do this and they should get the idea after a couple of hits.

At this point, if the code seems like something is wrong, it's probably just you not correctly inserting a command or you're not reading a helpfile.

I was making a simple statement with a trace of humour (thus the tongue smiley), and I do enjoy finding a way around the problem. I simply need to get used to the realism, and I needed some startup pointers.

Then read over the documents and the site rather than being lazy and posting into the first (and incorrect) forum you see.

I'm sorry folks, but when we constantly get a barrage of questions like these in every forum except Ask the Players, the answers to which are available onto the site, I have to wonder what the entire point of having a website full of information is. The answer to almost every question is right there and takes just a tiny bit of effort to read yet people want to take the easy way out and anonymously post. There are designated people to help, a website full of information, and a forum absolutely made for questions to other players. There's no excuse.

[Anonymous]

I spent 5 hours reading every bit of information I could find before I even created my PC, but sometimes, DUH, the guides and skill info dont explain every single issue / command conflict that might occur. This is especially true for the complexity of thief abilities. Sorry, the info didnt tell me anywhere that "you see in person's pack" is not actually their pack but their inventory.

*resists comment*
*resists comment*

Ah. Urge resisted.

*pat Carnage*

[Anonymous]

Additional note, I apologize for not having looked at every ingame skill pointer after having learned the ones on the website by heart. I also apologize for having asked here because some people here are titled helpers and enjoy helping.  

[spawnloser]

Okay...in defense of the Guest, some of the documentation is not clearly organized.  This has been gone over before whenever anyone asks for information that is in the docs whenever someone like Carnage blows up at someone that doesn't know better because they are new.

Still, as Carnage says, the helpfile for the skill peek does say specifically:

SKILL_PEEK                                                      (Equipment)

  This skill will allow you to look at a person's equipment list and what
they are carrying (in their inventory, which is listed as being 'in their
pack'), without them noticing. Failure will result in your peeking being
noticed.  You may also attempt to peek into items a person is wearing or
carrying.

The bolded part is obviously not bold in the helpfiles...but I did it to add emphasis.  Yes, the information was there...in one of the first places one should look.

[Anonymous]

Still, Spawnloser, unless there is something I'm missing I still see how someone could read that and try to '>steal <object> merchant's pack'.

It probably would be clearer if instead of saying 'Looking in So and So's pack' if it said

'You look at what So and So has on hand'

It's misleading to say it's in their pack when you use the peek command, when the target as has a pack on their back with a completely different inventory.

[spawnloser]

I can understand that...still, however, the helpfile elaborates on what the code is going to tell you.  The helpfile says that when the mud code says 'in their pack' it means that it is in their inventory...it doesn't say that you shouldn't "steal coins merchant's inventory" which I could understand someone trying that was being unusually clever...

Still, it is a moot point at this time for this subject.  Perhaps someone that feels strongly enough about the topic should idea a change in the peek skill?

[Carnage]

Here, exactly, is what I do when I come to a problem such as the Guest. Say I'm using skill Y, which will magically allow me to teleport around the world and back. We'll say Y is a common skill that isn't IC info.

1.)help skill_y. Before I even use it, I read the helpfile to double check things. Got a problem? Reread the helpfile on it. Make sure the syntax is right.
       1.5)In the meantime, I'm using my head to try and figure out whether this skill is having some sort of targetting issue (I'm warping to the Kadius store instead of the Kadius storehouse to rob and loot, perhaps), I'm trying a few times to double check the skill to see if I failed, whatever.
2.)Ask a couple of the people on my buddylist that play Arm what's up with it.
3.)Wish up if I suspect it's a bug. Generally the answer is to e-mail the MUD account but there's the chance a bored staffer might answer. If I was new and it was a foolish error, they'd most likely point me to the helper list with someone I could ask or correct me.
4.)Post in Ask the Players. Generally I'll get a straight answer from there.
5.)Finally, e-mail the MUD account. Depending on who's manning it, often Sanvean, I'll get an easy answer in a few hours.

A very simple process. Usually I don't even get to step two. If I do, chances are very good that I'll get an answer and it settles it quite fast.

As for the 'complexity' of thief abilities, it's generally because some of the higher information is IC. Why should the helpfiles spell out everything for poisons or what explosive is best for trap? Most of it you're supposed to find out in game through trial and error.

I also apologize for having asked here because some people here are titled helpers and enjoy helping.

If you fully explored the site, you'd have found this: Armageddon Helpers

[Anonymous]

To emphasize with the newbie, I spent several months as a newbie unable to craft and very frustrated. I pretty much just gave up on cooking and forgot to ask

There is nothing in any of helpfiles or documentation that says you don't put the 'a' into your recipe. Eventually I asked someone, but that's annoying. Hope that changes sometime. The docs/helpfiles aren't always perfectly correct, and they're not always obvious, so we have to keep rehashing this advice over and over.

Keys to success as a thief: nosave, and "steal coins <target>". The steal coins is one thing many newbies don't notice: coins don't show in an inventory, and the only way you can find out that you can rob a pile of sid off random commoners is by noticing the example in the helpfile.

[creeper386]

I could have sworn one of the helpfiles says don't us an article, but I don't see it.

But if you look. All of the samples are

craft blah into blah

not

craft blah into a blah

So, I think if you follow the EXAMPLES on the helpfiles you'll do fairly well. As they are everywhere.

Asking around isn't that big of a deal. But don't get pissy when someone points you to a document or a helpfile with the quoted relevant information. And telling you that it's in the helpfiles/docs right here.

Creeper

[Kankman]

Carnage, don't be a punk. Newbies are the lifeblood to a more interesting game. You're aren't a forum moderator, so shut up and stop being a nazi.

[Medena]

When I started on this mud a few months ago, I was absolutely terrified of doing something idiotic in the game or of asking a question here that might make me appear idiotic.  So I'd pour over the helpfiles, searching for answers instead of actually playing the game and learning things there.

I eventually asked some helpers questions and then even got up my courage to ask things on the GDB.  The response was always great and someone even said "Hey, relax, we were all newbies once and you'll find the other players very supportive."  And, I am pleased to say that I did.

I'm also pleased to say that no one answered me with a "Read the helpfile you, moron."  When you already know the answer to the question, it's pretty easy to spot it in the helpfile.  When you don't know, the answer doesn't just jump out at you.  I recall myself wondering about some of these very same things as the new player asking here.

--Medena