A General Note about the Labyrinth

[Halaster]

This keeps coming up from time to time and I want it to be clear:

People born in the Labyrinth of Allanak are 100% full citizens of Allanak like anyone else.  It is a section of the city and anyone born in it is a citizen.  They don't have to be proven to be one no more than anyone else born in the other parts of the city.  Their accent is because they're from "that side of the hood".

And every Allanaki person would know this.

If people IC'ly want to try and convince people otherwise that's totally fine.  But just understand the common knowledge of everyone is that rinthi's are citizens of Allanak.  So react accordingly IC as your character would.

[Lotion]

This problem (spreading of true information) plagues the MUD and with how helpfiles are not so easy for staff to update this is what we must resort to?

Okay that came out wrong. It's good that there's a workaround!

[mansa]

This problem (spreading of true information) plagues the MUD and with how helpfiles are not so easy for staff to update this is what we must resort to?

This is a problem of players deciding to roleplay something that isn't part of the world, and other players and staff are not correcting them at the time. 

You can't solve this problem by having the helpfiles being better, because players don't read the helpfiles, or reread the helpfiles frequently.  Player habits must be proactively corrected, rather than passively hoping players understood what they might have read.

[Lotion]

At least part of the reason players don't read the helpfiles is because trying to find the information you want in them sucks unless you already know where to look.

[Gentleboy]

So they can join the militia?

[zealus]

So they can join the militia?

There is a difference between being citizens and being allowed to join the militia, I imagine

[Hestia]

So they can join the militia?

A rinthi is a Nakki citizen.  Gemmed mages are Nakki citizens. There are Allanak citizens who are half-elves, dwarves, and elves, who aren't rinthis. There are all sorts of people who, for whatever reason, are not "hireable" by the AOD or noble houses. Even though they're citizens.

Citizenship is only one of several criteria for "hireability."

[Dar]

The point is that a non citizen can be exiled and kicked out of the city. A citizen might be exiled, but if a Templar is a true patriot, they'll just execute the citizen.

[Veselka]

I've seen 'rinthers conscripted into the Militia, or hiding their past (using a Southern accent instead of 'rinther accent). Depends on the Sergeant and the circumstances. During the last 'War Push' time, it seemed less likely your AoD Sergeant was going to care where you came from, as long as you hold a sword and follow orders and go march.

I've never heard of people from the Labyrinth not being called citizens. Also, citizenship in Allanak is a rather fluid concept, especially since they aren't denoted by tattoo as it is in the North (where they tend to take it much more seriously). People in the Labyrinth tend to be there from bad circumstances, addiction to spice, mutants, habitual criminals, born into gangs, or not interested in the bow and scrape of society in Allanak Proper. But if you were to stack them up against a tribal, or a Northerner, they are absolutely 100% more citizen than the latter two are.'

Weird trend if that's what's going down, haven't been South in a minute.

[Greve]

They're definitely second-rate citizens, though. I imagine there would be people who don't consider them "proper" citizens, just as there are people today in our world who don't consider some people proper citizens even if they are in the eyes of the law.

[Veselka]

They're definitely second-rate citizens, though. I imagine there would be people who don't consider them "proper" citizens, just as there are people today in our world who don't consider some people proper citizens even if they are in the eyes of the law.

Definitely.

A Noble should be caught dead hiring a 'rinther as an Aide, though I've seen it happen and people shrug and not say anything.

At a certain point these 'IDEALS' of society trickle down from the top. If the Top Downs (who lower downs/have nots can't really challenge) start hiring elves and half-elves and 'rinthers, it's on them, and between them and Staff, to conform to the documentation and not make exceptions to it.

[Greve]

On that note, it sort of goes both ways a little bit. People lose their fucking minds if you try to roleplay a non-rinther who has had to move in there for one of the reasons typically mentioned as the causes of people ending up there. It's like nobody can conceive of the idea that someone's a first-generation 'rinther. You'll be treated as if you're cheating at the game. Seriously.

[Narf]

On that note, it sort of goes both ways a little bit. People lose their fucking minds if you try to roleplay a non-rinther who has had to move in there for one of the reasons typically mentioned as the causes of people ending up there. It's like nobody can conceive of the idea that someone's a first-generation 'rinther. You'll be treated as if you're cheating at the game. Seriously.

It's explicitly stated in the help files that rinthers, both east and west, distrust southsiders on their turf. Generally speaking, this is appropriate play. Yes, people do move to the rinth out of desperation. But that doesn't mean the existing rinthers have to like it.

[Greve]

Yeah, but I'm talking about people going "you don't have the accent, you're not welcome here. I'm killing you if I see you up here again."

Distrust is fine, but anytime I've tried to play a non-rinther in the 'rinth, it has been met with reactions that indicate that the players don't even believe it should be a thing that can be done. Not distrust but outright refusal to permit it.

[Veselka]

On that note, it sort of goes both ways a little bit. People lose their fucking minds if you try to roleplay a non-rinther who has had to move in there for one of the reasons typically mentioned as the causes of people ending up there. It's like nobody can conceive of the idea that someone's a first-generation 'rinther. You'll be treated as if you're cheating at the game. Seriously.

It's explicitly stated in the help files that rinthers, both east and west, distrust southsiders on their turf. Generally speaking, this is appropriate play. Yes, people do move to the rinth out of desperation. But that doesn't mean the existing rinthers have to like it.

Like...Yeah. But at the same time...Like...No. I imagine most people aren't born in the 'rinth, they end up there for being addicted to spice, for being a mutant, for being a criminal, for being worse the a criminal, for not wanting to be gemmed, for not wanting to bow and scrape, for being an elf...

At a certain point Rinthers should mistrust people moving in, certainly, and vet them for not being spies, and definitely not 'like it', but come to accept it more quickly than a person from the Labyrinth moving on up to the Southside. I always found it odd how that sword cuts both ways -- Rinthers highly mistrustful and stabby boi with 'Outsiders' moving in to the Labyrinth, and Southsiders making exception for 'half elf #300 from the Labyrinth just trying to make an honest living' and accepting them into the fold.

Really -- It should be the other way around. People from the Labyrinth should have a very hard time being accepted into the social strata in Southside Allanak until they lose the accent, lose the mannerisms, lose the culture, and lose the bedraggled clothes and way of carrying themselves. In all essence, they move away from the Labyrinth in order to be accepted back into 'Normal Society', not bounce between the two as they see fit. I've unfortunately seen Rinthers too quickly accepted and too easily their past brushed under the rug, particularly where the convenience of having an Aide is concerned.

Contrariwise, Southsiders moving into the Labyrinth for just cause (Spice Addict, Criminal on the Run, etc) should be viewed with suspicion, maybe derision, maybe stabby boi, but if they survive the initial hazing, should just be considered 'another rat' eventually.

[Saiseiki]

This keeps coming up from time to time and I want it to be clear:

People born in the Labyrinth of Allanak are 100% full citizens of Allanak like anyone else.  It is a section of the city and anyone born in it is a citizen.  They don't have to be proven to be one no more than anyone else born in the other parts of the city.  Their accent is because they're from "that side of the hood".

And every Allanaki person would know this.

If people IC'ly want to try and convince people otherwise that's totally fine.  But just understand the common knowledge of everyone is that rinthi's are citizens of Allanak.  So react accordingly IC as your character would.

This is what I thought the situation/dynamic was, but I certainly appreciate having this explicitly confirmed by a current staff-member.  Thanks!  =)

[Saiseiki]

I'll add:  given that His Law is, with only a few hard-and-fast exceptions, whatever the highest ranking person in the room says it is, I can see from whence the confusion sprang.  And I also enjoy the fact that Halaster is giving those folks who want to go against custom and precedent runway to do so.

Some of my most OOCly entertaining moments have been from the most creative "fines" a PC Templar can generate, even if ICly it's an obstacle.  My favorite so far is someone being fined 50 coins for "breathing the same air as me".  That one had me giggling behind my keyboard, even if I had to field it ICly.

[ShaiHulud]

Love your Rinthi brothers and sisters. They are all just punks born on the other side of the divide.  Yes, shadier, more criminally involved perhaps, or perhaps not. Regardless, they are citizens of the False. They will die when leaving their domicile.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I would also point out that Allanak isn't Tuluk, they don't document citizenship. If it looks like a naki, talks like a naki, and seems like a naki...they are a naki until someone important says otherwise.

[WarriorPoet]

I have been told by more than one templar that rinthis are denizens, not citizens and I more or less took this as gospel for 20 years, repeating and enforcing it over multiple characters. I was never corrected.

Flag this as important, somehow, in the docs?

[Rogerthat]

I just gotta say. Rp is Rp. Some southie wanna talk shit and im playing a rinthi? I make make their life hell, they are citizens of course, just live in the shittiest part of the city. Steal their coins constantly, threaten them, shit even kill them if your heart desires. You get rid of whats talking well talking soon turns to whispers eh, or you show whats talking what you can do? Can shut them up as well, it'd be a fun rp moment.

[9001]

I just gotta say. Rp is Rp. Some southie wanna talk shit and im playing a rinthi? I make make their life hell...

This always baffles me. Any rinthi strutting about southside should absolutely be used to snide looks and comments from just about everywhere. "Steal[ling] their coins constantly, threaten[ing] them, shit even kill[ing] them if your heart desires" just seems flat out excessive for looking down on rinthis as a default response.

Being citizens doesn't make them respectable, or respected. It doesn't make them entitled to respect. Rinthis aren't nobles. They shouldn't just assume the most basic (and documentation-enforced) prejudice against them is worthy of lashing out to an extreme level.

When your character reacts to very routine discrimination it should be with your understanding that it's something your character faces every day, from virtual sources as well as PC ones. And while you can play a character that will 'overreact', because of their personality or position in certain organizations, it is not fun for other players when you fixate on them in what feels like an OOCly driven manner that ignores the fact that discrimination against your rinthi is a societally pervasive and accepted thing.

Playing an engaging antagonist isn't easy. I'm not saying you shouldn't react to being insulted or discriminated against as a rinthi (or any other marginalized group), but it's all too easy for a disproportionate response to become an OOCly oppressive one that smothers conflict.

We should be able to talk shit about rinthis without the default response being gaining stalkers that want to make our PCs lives hell or kill them outright. Not every rinthi you play needs to be the Joker.

[Hestia]

Rinthi>Nakki Transition Primer:

A rinthi is a low-life of the city. They have their own hierarchy within the Labyrinth but the moment they leave it, their default is at the bottom rung, no matter how important they are in the alleys.

A rinthi KNOWS this.  All denizens of the Labyrinth know that southside is where "THOSE people" live.  All people in the city proper know that the Rinth is where "THOSE people" live.

A rinthi knows its place - that is how the rinthi managed to live more than a week in the rinth. It's also why most of them, whether born there or moved there, never leave.

The loveliest, most wonderful, most clever, intelligent, efficient, gifted masterful rinthi crafter is still inferior to someone who was born and raised on Wall Road and hangs out in the Gaj, joins the Byn, and stinks of latrine shit.

UNLESS they can rid themselves of the aura of rinthi stench that envelops them.  That isn't merely losing an accent (though that'd be an important step).  It also means acquiring an understanding of southside mannerisms, general comprehension of the behaviors...

For example (putting verbs in my sentences here):

A "typical" rinthi might sneak EVERYWHERE, because it might be their #1 method of self-preservation.

A "typical" Nakki would not.

That's just one example of many. Learning the culture and finding your place within it, is how a rinthi would have the best chance of shaking off their rinthi aura.  This is not a coded tag, it is done via roleplay.  You wanna be a noble's aide? Spend some time observing nobles' aides, see how they act, what makes them special enough to deserve employment with one of the Nine.  Care to craft for Kadius? Watch how they behave in public, and with their boss, and especially their interactions with nobles and templars - potential future customers.

[Alesan]

I just gotta say. Rp is Rp. Some southie wanna talk shit and im playing a rinthi? I make make their life hell...

This always baffles me. Any rinthi strutting about southside should absolutely be used to snide looks and comments from just about everywhere. "Steal[ling] their coins constantly, threaten[ing] them, shit even kill[ing] them if your heart desires" just seems flat out excessive for looking down on rinthis as a default response.

Being citizens doesn't make them respectable, or respected. It doesn't make them entitled to respect. Rinthis aren't nobles. They shouldn't just assume the most basic (and documentation-enforced) prejudice against them is worthy of lashing out to an extreme level.

When your character reacts to very routine discrimination it should be with your understanding that it's something your character faces every day, from virtual sources as well as PC ones. And while you can play a character that will 'overreact', because of their personality or position in certain organizations, it is not fun for other players when you fixate on them in what feels like an OOCly driven manner that ignores the fact that discrimination against your rinthi is a societally pervasive and accepted thing.

Playing an engaging antagonist isn't easy. I'm not saying you shouldn't react to being insulted or discriminated against as a rinthi (or any other marginalized group), but it's all too easy for a disproportionate response to become an OOCly oppressive one that smothers conflict.

We should be able to talk shit about rinthis without the default response being gaining stalkers that want to make our PCs lives hell or kill them outright. Not every rinthi you play needs to be the Joker.

Yes. More discrimination against Rinthis, please. I mostly see them treated just like any other Allanak citizen. It's hard to be the change when you feel like the exception.

[Jihelu]

I still have no idea and wish we had more information on how Templar's even keep track of citizens, if they even do.
If Rinthis, who can be born in a literal hole in the wall with no contact with southside, are citizens does that mean anyone with a southern accent can just BS being a citizen? I'm fine with that but I wish it was at least written somewhere that citizenship is just a matter of accent and wearing the right clothes.

(And a coded status that apparently helps you not get murdered via crime code)

I just hope I don't wind up as a tribal with southern accent with someone going "HMMM YOU AINT ON ANY PAPERS OF MINE" while in prison when there are demonstrably no papers of citizenship taken by the Templarate. Or let me know how the census efforts go in the Rinth I'm sure they go great.