Men and Women: Flirtacious Bothering

[Chettaman]

As we all know; this game invokes emotions. When we lose IC loved ones, we cry. When we achieve a new rank in our clan or some other thing we've been working towards, we smile and feel that pride. Or I do, anyway. ... When we get harassed in game we get angry. When we get sexually harassed in game. We also react accordingly. That's fair enough, right?

The argument, I have gathered is:
- People shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable during roleplay
                               VS
- This is armageddon. Get ready to feel all of the emotions, suckuh!! (slight exaggeration)

I enjoy the idea of playing out every possible scene, but I'm also very comfortable with myself as well as others and understand that I'm only playing a game. There is no clear line (for me) about what I would and wouldn't do compared to this game and real life, but I can say honestly, that I know I wouldn't be hurting people. In game, of course. (I don't play characters with those personalities) -- but other people do. And they show little or no mercy as I would. Which I commend.

I get upset when people aren't as comfortable with themselves or take the game much more seriously than a game and then use the game as a tool to carry out their wills. They may use the internet and the game world as a tool to gain not only enjoyment; fun and lust -- but they may even use them as tools to gain a - or a sense of revenge, retribution... justice.

Myself. I can go through an experience and not change or be affected in any other way than gained knowledge. Well that's not true. I do use my knowledge gained in real life. For example: While I never imagined I would ever cry for someone I cared for dying, I did so. And it was just a dog. When she died from parvo right in front of me, man... it was one of the saddest moments of my life and I cried deeply. -- In game when someone cared for fades into drov in my grasp, bam.
Sometimes I don't think this game'll make me feel the intensity of emotions I would in real life, but that's untrue. For me at least. -- and I'm fine with this.

Others may not enjoy going through certain scenes. Maybe they'll be affected, maybe they won't. Maybe they have been. At any rate, it's clear that they're uncomfortable and don't like being sexually harassed. In the real world sexual harassment is a problem. (the current idea of romance is a problem, but another conversation)
In the real world little can be done to stop a person from doing these things. In character there are even less things. ... or maybe there are more things.

anyone
What are some suggestions to stop a person from doing something you don't want them to IN GAME?

and what are some some suggestions to stop a person from doing something you don't want them to OUT OF GAME?

[bardlyone]

Eh. People are sexual aggressors. It's worse with some pcs than others, to be on the receiving end of it.

I don't much mind the constant stream of advances. I mind more that there's a tendency with female pcs I've played over male pcs I've played, to have people use sexuality and speculation on their sex lives to EFFECTIVELY slander the character in question and cause actual fallout.

THAT is OOC leaking in. That is a bias against liberated female sexuality in game, which should not exist, as it's never existed for the male pcs I've played, who've been the aggressor more often than not. THAT is what I mind.

The constant barrage of advances is a shit sandwich. It's one that has a root cause that comes down to tits, most of the time. I wouldn't say it's upsetting or unrealistic, inconvenient at times perhaps. But it's the same way in real life.

I don't like the fact that I've seen smear campaigns center around more than one female pc of mine based sheerly on their (SPECULATED, as it's often as not untrue) sex lives, which actually stick, and result in talkings to. That is problematic af.

But nah, if you wanna play a creeper, by all means, creep away. And when it's IC for one of my pcs to do the same, they usually will.

[Dunetrade55]

In game:
Give a firm, clear message, then insults, sabotage, start rumors (true or false), pay elves to rob them stupid, report to raider band each time Amos goes salting, eventually murder if it still doesn't stop. Or you could just start with murder, no rules against that, just a matter of personal preference when dealing with such situations. There's also ignoring it, which I'm assuming isn't working in some cases, or you could drag them off for some pity sex and thoroughly gross them out after consent (though this could backfire). If it crosses the IC/OOC barrier and you honestly feel threatened IRL, file a complaint. If you've had player Y snuffed several times, or they've just kept making characters SPECIFICALLY to bother YOU, staff can look at records and figure out if this is the case.

Honestly, getting hung up on one player is kind of silly when there's a whole game filled with interesting characters and situations to explore. I have trouble understanding the creep mindset knowing this is the case. Sometimes it can seem like someone's creeping on you when that's not actually the case and it's simple coincidence. Staff can either determine this, or at least make a note to keep an eye out for future "coincidences".

Out of game:
Document everything, report it to your boss if it's the workplace, if it's your boss that's the problem, go to their boss. If that doesn't work, go to corporate. If you get fired, call a lawyer and rip them a new one. My mother had the most of this kind of trouble with another woman she was working with, after she turned down her proposition. This resulted in years of this other woman's workplace clique trying to ruin my mother's reputation. Eventually, my mom got her and all her friends busted down for this crap. It sucks, but you're not helpless. Keep a log of everything you notice, and try to keep it accurate and include witnesses who can say, when asked, if they saw it or not. RL scenarios with obsessive creeps can quickly become disturbing and even life-threatening, so make SURE you keep all your information together.

I've heard it said that often times, a restraining order can only serve to agitate things further, I'm unsure of the validity of this, though I am sure that in some cases, it can be true. Mace, stun guns, and firearms can certainly be effective, but you'll want to be trained in their usage and know in which situations they will be useful or warranted, and keep in mind an attacker can turn them against you. Mind games can help, I once outcreeped a creep to the point he was running away across an empty field shouting for help by the time I was done speaking. It sucks, but if you have a stalker, moving can be an effective, though undesirable option. Take up a martial art or some other form of unarmed self-defense, guy grabs your wrist and tells you you're not going anywhere? Make him regret it by twisting and snapping his arm in several places. Break a finger or three, just don't go too overboard or there could be legal complications.

Chances are, in a very threatening situation, calling the police won't be immediately effective, which is when it needs to be effective. The most important thing is to escape the situation, ensure loved ones are safe, and take further preventative measures. If you can fully immobilize your attacker then that makes it easier for police to take them into custody, or file them in a morgue where they can admire the effectiveness of a .357 sig hollowpoint to the dome.

[Dunetrade55]

Eh. People are sexual aggressors. It's worse with some pcs than others, to be on the receiving end of it.

I don't much mind the constant stream of advances. I mind more that there's a tendency with female pcs I've played over male pcs I've played, to have people use sexuality and speculation on their sex lives to EFFECTIVELY slander the character in question and cause actual fallout.

THAT is OOC leaking in. That is a bias against liberated female sexuality in game, which should not exist, as it's never existed for the male pcs I've played, who've been the aggressor more often than not. THAT is what I mind.

The constant barrage of advances is a shit sandwich. It's one that has a root cause that comes down to tits, most of the time. I wouldn't say it's upsetting or unrealistic, inconvenient at times perhaps. But it's the same way in real life.

I don't like the fact that I've seen smear campaigns center around more than one female pc of mine based sheerly on their (SPECULATED, as it's often as not untrue) sex lives, which actually stick, and result in talkings to. That is problematic af.

But nah, if you wanna play a creeper, by all means, creep away. And when it's IC for one of my pcs to do the same, they usually will.

I've had this happen too while playing straight female PCs, whether aggressor or no. Seems sometimes like my PC is expected to conform to RL cultural expectations for a woman, and if they're thought to be promiscuous, then yeah, someone tries to start up a smear campaign. I'm like, wait, wut? Read the quickstart guide, newbs. This isn't the bible belt, this is Zalanthas, and there's nothing "nasty" about my character in relation to the environment they're surrounded by.

[Desertman]

Eh. People are sexual aggressors. It's worse with some pcs than others, to be on the receiving end of it.

I don't much mind the constant stream of advances. I mind more that there's a tendency with female pcs I've played over male pcs I've played, to have people use sexuality and speculation on their sex lives to EFFECTIVELY slander the character in question and cause actual fallout.

THAT is OOC leaking in. That is a bias against liberated female sexuality in game, which should not exist, as it's never existed for the male pcs I've played, who've been the aggressor more often than not. THAT is what I mind.

The constant barrage of advances is a shit sandwich. It's one that has a root cause that comes down to tits, most of the time. I wouldn't say it's upsetting or unrealistic, inconvenient at times perhaps. But it's the same way in real life.

I don't like the fact that I've seen smear campaigns center around more than one female pc of mine based sheerly on their (SPECULATED, as it's often as not untrue) sex lives, which actually stick, and result in talkings to. That is problematic af.

But nah, if you wanna play a creeper, by all means, creep away. And when it's IC for one of my pcs to do the same, they usually will.

I've also seen this more than once and have tried my best to "hint" that a woman can fuck as many wieners as she wants in Zalanthas and nobody should/would give a shit.

To be fair every time I have hinted it was odd that they thought it was "slanderous", they always immediately corrected their error.

Not to derail further but what I DO like is when I see people make a big deal about fucking elves, breed, magickers, rinthers, or other undesirables.


It's not ok to say, "Amber sleeps with everyone! What a slut!".

It's fine to say, "Amber sleeps with any dirty thing with a dick! How trashy. Did you hear she fucked a rinther AND a breed? What a skank.".

[Raptor_Dan]

Okay, I'm going to throw my opinion out there.

I play a very assorted lot of PC's, and since I don't really communicate with any players outside of the GDB, I'm guessing most players don't know who is playing my char. That said. when I play a female char, the attention I get it quantifiably different than the attention I get with a male char. The creepiness and disturbing quality of attention I get when I play pretty or young female chars often upsets me.

The comparisons to real life behavior versus in game behavior should not be considered fair points, because the real world is infinitely more harsh, less respectful, and less mature than we as players should strive to be to each other. I do not suggest sending in a report every time sexual harassment crosses into creepy territory, because the sheer workload it would dump on staff might make it be banned, simply as a result of how irresponsibly -some- and only -some- of the players of Arm handle these things. However, when it comes to 'ooc'ly creepy behavior, by all means, yes, Please, do as Nergal suggested, send in a request. (And I say please, because there are people who won't for a variety of reasons, and the scale should be balanced)

Now, in response to the original post by BR, yes, there is an amount of seeming gender discrimination in who gets flirted with, and who gets chased, and who gets harassed, because as multiple people have pointed out, they're being played by players who have RL cultures and experience affecting their play. I personally think we should try rather hard to remove those biases, but not in a let's set up rules and regulations for it, more of a personal challenge for each of us. If you've been operating under the assumption that these things swing both way, I hope that I've been playing examples of how that is true. I think I've tried hard to break gender norms. I think I've also played a pretty damn good creeper without becoming ooc'ly creepy, but that was more of a lampoon character, mean to be a caricature.

I do not, I repeat, DO NOT want a softer world. I want creepers, freak and asshole lining the filthy, grimy streets. I do want it to swing both ways, and have creepers pick out old PC's instead of just peeking into the bar and typing 'l youth, l youth, l teen,' and walking out because those were all male.

I do not want people to have to constantly deal with unwanted sexual advances. I do want them to have to deal with constant advances, sales pitches, death threats, people trying to hook them up with their virtual cousin, et cetera. I want the harassment to be more spread out, if only to provide more opportunities for roleplay, instead of the exact same types of behavior over and over. (albeit seemingly. We all have different experiences in game)

I want more people to nickname a pretty male PC character 'dick' or 'buttcheeks', instead of only having to witness the fifteenth female pc be nicknamed 'tits'.

I'm certain you all agree with me, because that' how my mind works. Now, I'm off to be the change, by being a creepy older woman who constantly hits on any teens or youths that are male. I'm fully prepared for my application to be rejected on the basis of 'No, just... please don't. Not again.'


I response to Chettaman:

IC ways?

-Well, as much as I hate to say it, break character. And I don't mean go ooc, I mean act differently than your char ever has. Go the fuck off on them, because your PC can have a snapping point no one else has reached.
-Give them an expensive gift in private and tell them you'll fuck them later. Contact a soldier, empty your bank account for a bribe, and report said gift stolen. Let the fucking begin.
-Suicide. Take you your knife, wish up staff assistance, and bleed out in their arms, your dying words, 'If...only... you were more persistent.'

OOC ways?
-Does it break the rules, is it a persistent problem? Report.
-No? Might need to be more clear, are they doing something you don't want them to, and they're doing it out of game? Report.
 Are they doing something you don't want them do In Game, and you want to want to stop them by doing something, out of game? Don't.

[Raptor_Dan]

Edited to remove years of cynicism.

[Dar]

I also fail to understand this.

His OOC actions are creeping me out.

What ooc actions? What did the creeper do OOCly that creeped you out IRL? If he was consistently in character and never spoke to you via OOC means (be that ooc command, or aim, or whatever), then how can you possibly be affected by this IRL?

If someone in the bar, always punches you in the face, regardless of their and your genders, does it mean you can do "nothing" about it except OOCly ask them to stop?

This is seriously the same thing. A character continuously does something that you do not like. You do not like it. Period. It doesnt matter if it's sexual harassment, or sexual innuendo, or non-sexual harassment, or non-sexual banter. It doesn't matter. Point is. They do it and you don't like it. Then get them to fucking stop. Don't break character and ask them to cease, break their character's neck instead!



I had a character promise another character to hang them by the leg off the statue on Hathors, and turn their slumped open mouth into a pot for pee and ... various other things, for anyone who walked past that intersection.  

I did that with the direct intention of creeping the fuck out of that person. I wanted my words to be graphic and shocking, and fear inducing. To demonstrate the sheer unhingeness of my character and the depravity he is willing to perform towards that character. That particular instance, it was a male character. But with all this conversation, should I have 'played safe' and 'not' made that threat if the target of my ire happened to be female?

[Beethoven]

If you fail to understand it, it almost certainly isn't you and you have been lucky enough not to experience it.

[Dar]

That argument is about as infallible as "We are privy to more information about this then you are. Therefore we know we're right, and we know you're wrong. So let's come down and discuss this until you agree with all of our statements."

Alrighty-then!

[Beethoven]

If that's what you think I'm saying, then okay, but I'm really not. I just don't think it's fair to share negative details about other players and the things they have done and said on the GDB.

[Reiloth]

I played a female PC one time (Githclit) and she wasn't bad looking. I think maybe people were afraid of her so they didn't hit on her. So in my control experience, I didn't encounter the problems mentioned in this thread.

However, I have been witness to them (especially in the Boy's Club of the Byn) but i've also seen women stand up for themselves and make men look like little sissies.

So I definitely agree with the case by case basis...Honestly, if it was 'to the point of harrasment', like every time you log in this guy contacts you and sends you images of dicks and talks about fucking your skull, i'd report it. But anything less than that, i'd just plot their painful murder.

This sort of encourages me to hit on more male PCs as a male PC, to balance the scales.

"Hey sexy. Is that a sword on your belt or are you just happy to see me?"

[Malken]

Like Talia said, most (if not all) people in this thread are mature enough to know when they're pushing too far to the point that it might make others uncomfortable without adding anything to the game, so I'm not really sure what this thread will achieve except making the playerbase in general look like a bunch of horny creepers. If you're playing this game in the hope that you're going to get some text sex and carry this relationship OOCly afterward then I doubt that you'll understand what some of the (mostly female?) players are trying to explain.

If something makes you uncomfortable, discuss it with the Staff.

Everyone else, no one is trying to make the game PG 13.

I will lock this thread now that it has achieved it's purpose.

Edit: Dammit, I thought I was writing this under my Lauramars account, sorry!

[Dar]

Like Talia said, most (if not all) people in this thread are mature enough to know when they're pushing too far to the point that it might make others uncomfortable without adding anything to the game, so I'm not really sure what this thread will achieve except making the playerbase in general look like a bunch of horny creepers. If you're playing this game in the hope that you're going to get some text sex and carry this relationship OOCly afterward then I doubt that you'll understand what some of the (mostly female?) players are trying to explain.

If something makes you uncomfortable, discuss it with the Staff.

Everyone else, no one is trying to make the game PG 13.

I will lock this thread now that it has achieved it's purpose.

Edit: Dammit, I thought I was writing this under my Lauramars account, sorry!

Nice.

[Beethoven]

I'll change pretty much all the details so you can understand where I'm coming from without me specifically talking smack on anyone.

Let's say you're playing a dirt-poor depressed mutant woman who desperately wants to be loved and accepted. (I'm only not making her a breed because then you'd at least have an excuse to shove him away.) A guy starts giving your PC all these compliments and paying her a ridiculous amount of obsidian not only to sleep with him, but also basically to pretend to be his girlfriend. Of course she accepts--what sad, pathetic shell of a woman wouldn't? He is kind of a spam-hunter so he has a ridiculous amount of money. He offers her raw goods for her craft and buys her a place to stay. In exchange, all she has to do is put up with him using her to indulge his RL fetish. He attempts to change your PC's appearance to conform to his OOC "type."

It doesn't matter how much you emote how gross your PC is, or what a creepy dirty mutant she is--he ignores it. You're pretty sure if she revealed she was a defiler right then and there, he'd ignore that, too, or say he liked it.

As someone who is in a much more desperate situation than you, your PC would of course put up with all this so that she can get her needs fulfilled. After all, this is supposed to be a place where people kill each other over a sip of water. How much would someone like the PC I mentioned be willing to do for SIGNIFICANTLY more than that? However, you IRL are not in that kind of situation, so the only reason you are putting up with it is because it makes IC sense. You are trying to stay in-character, so you're trapped with him. That is what I mean when I say someone can use you or take advantage of your roleplay. A lot of times fading any kind of sexual scenes drives those people away, but sometimes it doesn't. And maybe you're not fading because you're trying to convey to him how nasty your PC is, but it all seems to fall on deaf ears.

If he is constantly contacting you and dirty-talking or trying to pay you to meet up with him and you feel you do not have a justification to turn him down regularly, it makes you want to stop logging in, or worse, store. Or you could act OOCly so you can get rid of him. In my case, I did the latter. I can't regret it because I was having zero fun and after that I started having fun again. But I know that it didn't make 100% IC sense.

That's the kind of BS I'm talking about. And I think staff was watching and felt bad for me. I didn't send in a player complaint because it wasn't against the rules, but I do hope that players like that can read this and realize they're ruining the fun.

[Narf]

On the matter of creeping:

I feel IC creepers and harassment add a lot to the world and story.

I feel OOCly motivated creeping and harassment are offputting and make me not want to log on.

The problem is that I can't always tell the difference between the two.

[Talia]

The problem is that I can't always tell the difference between the two.

You know what? Me either. And if I can't tell the difference between IC and OOC, from a staff perspective, then I'm going to attribute the motivation to OOC. It is OK for players, also, to stop giving other players the benefit of the doubt sometimes and just go with the Occam's razor of explanations.

If something is creepy to you as a player, then it's creepy. If you want to take care of the problem IC, good; if you want to talk to staff about it OOC, good. Just don't let yourselves keep getting creeped out without doing/saying something about it, players.

(This is my own policy on staff, too. If something weirds me out, I talk to someone about it. None of us is here for a bad time and no one is getting paid to be here, either players or staff. Speaking out makes a better environment for all of us.)

[Chettaman]

The problem is that I can't always tell the difference between the two.

You know what? Me either. And if I can't tell the difference between IC and OOC, from a staff perspective, then I'm going to attribute the motivation to OOC. It is OK for players, also, to stop giving other players the benefit of the doubt sometimes and just go with the Occam's razor of explanations.

If something is creepy to you as a player, then it's creepy. If you want to take care of the problem IC, good; if you want to talk to staff about it OOC, good. Just don't let yourselves keep getting creeped out without doing/saying something about it, players.

(This is my own policy on staff, too. If something weirds me out, I talk to someone about it. None of us is here for a bad time and no one is getting paid to be here, either players or staff. Speaking out makes a better environment for all of us.)

+1

[Rhei]

I had a character promise another character to hang them by the leg off the statue on Hathors, and turn their slumped open mouth into a pot for pee and ... various other things, for anyone who walked past that intersection.  

I did that with the direct intention of creeping the fuck out of that person. I wanted my words to be graphic and shocking, and fear inducing. To demonstrate the sheer unhingeness of my character and the depravity he is willing to perform towards that character. That particular instance, it was a male character. But with all this conversation, should I have 'played safe' and 'not' made that threat if the target of my ire happened to be female?

I agree with the rest of the post in that if someone has been bothering you while completely in-character, that you should keep your reactions IC, as well. At least, for most cases, though Beethoven's example is a good one, and one of those (hopefully rare) circumstances where you may have to take OOC action.

The point of this thread, as far as I know, was how female PCs seem to be treated differently versus males, when flirting and such. So, really, it's about the supposed lack of the whole "no gender discrimination" thing, and I'm not sure how you gathered why you should play it safe around female PCs. That example you'd given differs from sexual harassment, or the kind of harassment people have mentioned in this thread.

[LauraMars]

I will lock this thread now that it has achieved it's purpose.

Edit: Dammit, I thought I was writing this under my Lauramars account, sorry!

Pfff nice try. Everybody knows I would never incorrectly punctuate the possessive form of 'it'!!

now if you'll excuse me I'm going to take my girlfriend swing dancing and win a trophy

[Malken]

I will lock this thread now that it has achieved it's purpose.

Edit: Dammit, I thought I was writing this under my Lauramars account, sorry!

Pfff nice try. Everybody knows I would never incorrectly punctuate the possessive form of 'it'!!

now if you'll excuse me I'm going to take my girlfriend swing dancing and win a trophy

I thought we had a wedding to prepare for 

Back on topic - I've got nothing.

[Desertman]

I'll change pretty much all the details so you can understand where I'm coming from without me specifically talking smack on anyone.

Let's say you're playing a dirt-poor depressed mutant woman who desperately wants to be loved and accepted. (I'm only not making her a breed because then you'd at least have an excuse to shove him away.) A guy starts giving your PC all these compliments and paying her a ridiculous amount of obsidian not only to sleep with him, but also basically to pretend to be his girlfriend. Of course she accepts--what sad, pathetic shell of a woman wouldn't? He is kind of a spam-hunter so he has a ridiculous amount of money. He offers her raw goods for her craft and buys her a place to stay. In exchange, all she has to do is put up with him using her to indulge his RL fetish. He attempts to change your PC's appearance to conform to his OOC "type."

It doesn't matter how much you emote how gross your PC is, or what a creepy dirty mutant she is--he ignores it. You're pretty sure if she revealed she was a defiler right then and there, he'd ignore that, too, or say he liked it.

As someone who is in a much more desperate situation than you, your PC would of course put up with all this so that she can get her needs fulfilled. After all, this is supposed to be a place where people kill each other over a sip of water. How much would someone like the PC I mentioned be willing to do for SIGNIFICANTLY more than that? However, you IRL are not in that kind of situation, so the only reason you are putting up with it is because it makes IC sense. You are trying to stay in-character, so you're trapped with him. That is what I mean when I say someone can use you or take advantage of your roleplay. A lot of times fading any kind of sexual scenes drives those people away, but sometimes it doesn't. And maybe you're not fading because you're trying to convey to him how nasty your PC is, but it all seems to fall on deaf ears.

If he is constantly contacting you and dirty-talking or trying to pay you to meet up with him and you feel you do not have a justification to turn him down regularly, it makes you want to stop logging in, or worse, store. Or you could act OOCly so you can get rid of him. In my case, I did the latter. I can't regret it because I was having zero fun and after that I started having fun again. But I know that it didn't make 100% IC sense.

That's the kind of BS I'm talking about. And I think staff was watching and felt bad for me. I didn't send in a player complaint because it wasn't against the rules, but I do hope that players like that can read this and realize they're ruining the fun.

Damn.

I think you are confused about what is acceptable.

You seem to believe that if you are OOC'ly uncomfortable it is against the rules for you to "go against what your character would do" in order to get yourself out of that situation.

That's not the case.

You are ABSOLUTELY ALLOWED to tell the guy above to "Fuck off. I've decided I don't like this anymore. I don't have to give you a reason why. I've decided it, and that's that.".

That doesn't mean he will.

But, you ARE NOT obligated to continue to play with this person and "let them" continue to creep you out by playing with them because you feel "I have to because my character would.".




If you continue to play with them even though they are OOC'ly freaking you out because you feel some sort of obligation to the "integrity of correct roleplay" then you are taking this far too seriously.

Your OOC feelings should come first.

If you are having trouble coming up with a good excuse for your character to decide they don't want to be around this guy anymore....ask staff for help.....but in general, it doesn't even have to be creative.


To be fair in your example above you are also making a A LOT of assumptions about this other player's motivations and a lot of assumptions about that player in general based entirely upon the actions of their character. You even went so far as to assume their OOC type behind the keyboard. You don't know any of that. You have no idea. These are just your assumptions, and they could be entirely wrong. For all you know he's trying to change your character into the spitting image of his mother that abused him and once he gets you to that point he will murder you horribly to act out on his broken mental state like some sicko serial killer.....

(That would actually be an interesting PC. The guy who finds some hapless mutant girl and uses his money and influence to slowly turn her into the image of his abusive mother so that in the end he can murder her and act out on his troubled past like the nut he is.....I would kudos the shit out of that.)

Again, you don't have to play with him if you are OOC'ly creeped out, and if you continue to in this sort of situation because you think, "my character would so I have to", then you can only really blame yourself.


(I don't mean YOU as in -YOU-, I mean "people in general/all players" btw. The idea someone would be OOC'ly creeped out for an extended period of time sexually by another PC just to "uphold the sanctity of the game" is....scary and weird.)

[valeria]

.... but i've also seen women stand up for themselves and make men look like little sissies. ...

I've been trying to avoid posting in this thread, but ....

That you use feminizing language as an insult, no doubt entirely unintentionally (and as a generally stand-up guy) just illustrates how hard it can be to leave cultural biases at the door.  In theory, the rule in the game is "women and men are equal."  In practice, it's hard to get around those deeply held biases.  It really is.  This pours over into everything, flirtatiousness included.

[Malken]

This thread is a minefield of eggshells, holy crap.

[Beethoven]

As I said, Dman, that's what I eventually did. But I shouldn't have to break character to get out of a trap like that tailored to tickle someone's OOC fancies and fetishes that they display again and again on character after character. I know I'm not the only one who would feel trapped in a situation like that.