Men and Women: Flirtacious Bothering

[Inks]

When IC becomes OOC I would agree with you, but most of the time it doesn't. Then again last time I had a PC in the Byn about twenty dude PCs threatened to kill me the instant I called a female PC a name for IC reasons. The amount of white knighting was off the hook.

[Desertman]

When IC becomes OOC I would agree with you, but most of the time it doesn't. Then again last time I had a PC in the Byn about twenty dude PCs threatened to kill me the instant I called a female PC a name for IC reasons. The amount of white knighting was off the hook.

I've also seen this phenomenon. It's so obvious that both my wife and I joke about how blatant it is. She plays females, I play males.

If I want to get a pack of men at my back to defend me and support me in situations where I might need them to lift a blade in my defense/favor I have to go to war with them and prove myself to them on the battlefield/when it matters.

That.....or enter the game with a vagina.

I don't mind it. I'm probably even prone to doing it myself. If there is a dirty male adolescent grebber in the street getting kicked around I will be the first to admit I probably won't help him....but if I see someone kicking around "the cute little dirty waif girl".....I'm going to rush to her aide almost every time because I'm a sucker for that, and I feel bad IRL about it.

It's just one of those things and I've seen it enough to know it's not the exception...it's actually the norm.

[Delirium]

I'd rather we try to push back against that "phenomenon" rather than shrug and accept it as "the norm"

[Chettaman]

What are some proposed solutions?

I would say that this isn't a male attracted to female problem more than it is a, people don't know how to joke in game or... out of game. Or maybe people are unused to how to deal with confrontations as such in game. ... and/or out of game. While out of game, the person may say nothing and do nothing but think, "What a douchebag." and hopes some conclusion happens soon.

I'll give you a real life example. I was in class one night and there was this really drunk student there that night. There was also a very outspoken girl who seemed fairly knowledge about what we were talking about. Well throughout the night she like one-ups this guy and jokes on him too, but in a friendly manner. ... this guy wasn't havin' it, though. He was muttering loudly about how he would shut her up and what he'd do after class - and it was something else, man. And... no one said shit. No one in the room. Not the teacher. Not a student. No one. So... once I had heard enough I stood up - and coincidentally some other guy stood up and was like, "hey man. You can either leave or sit there and be quiet or I'll shut you up." and he muttered much much quieter after that and the rest of the class period was pretty tense until he decided to leave. -- seriously, man? No one but me and the other guy? No one said anything and even avoided eye contact.

What I'm saying is. In game. In zalanthas. People who are roleplaying tough guys are gonne roleplay being tough guys, but they don't know how, in comparison to an actual tough guy. xD or maybe they're all roleplaying one character. "the angry mob". lol. Good'ol mob mentality.
... and of course. Affections for the opposite sex also come into play as well as other possible OOC motivations.
also, I mean... people can react thusly to another character being ridiculed. The person being defended against now has to react differently or ''appropriately''.

[Is Friday]

TBF, tough guys IRL usually aren't actually tough guys.

[Desertman]

I tend to accept reality for what it is.

So long as men in general feel the desire to protect females this is going to be something that exists more often than not.


It's a video game based largely around Darksun which in turn was more or less "Dungeons and Dragons in the desert".

MOST of the people who come here to play grew up playing video games/tabletop games/watching movies where the key was to rescue the damsel in distress, give or take, and WE LIKE being heroes.

I've seen some great villains in Armageddon, but for the most part, the people who play the game grew up wanting to be the hero and we still like the idea of being the hero.

I've played a fair number of villains myself, but......I still enjoy being the hero when I can be, because being the hero makes me feel good.



If I'm not playing a villain and I see the opportunity to rescue a woman, I'm more often than not going to rescue her........because I enjoy doing that in video games.

Always have, probably always will.

In my experience MOST DUDES enjoy it as well. (Most females do too actually. Most girls/women I've ever played with REALLY ENJOY coming to the damsel's rescue.)

I've DM'ed a lot of campaigns for a lot of different groups, played in a lot of different themes/settings, and in general....most people like rescuing damsels and being heroes....because we like that about video games.


I'm not sure I want to ask them to stop enjoying it, or not doing it if they do enjoy it. It's a video game. If they enjoy it and the opportunity is there, then they should go ahead and do it.

I'm also not going to thumb my nose at them if they happen to not want to rescue dudes as often as they want to rescue chicks.

Why?

Because people should do what they enjoy so long as it doesn't break the game.


I understand in theory it should be 50/50, but the truth is reality is never "fair" or "equal" and it's human beings playing the game, not robots....so they are going to do human things based on the reality that they are humans and we tend to do what we enjoy.

So long as it's not hurting the game, and I don't believe it is....I'm probably just going to shrug and keep on keeping on.

[Delirium]

I guess I'll just pin on this "self rescuing princess" badge and keep on keeping on, then.

[Desertman]

I guess I'll just pin on this "self rescuing princess" badge and keep on keeping on, then.

I like tough female characters. Keep on keepin' on girlfriend.

[Is Friday]

I guess I'll just pin on this "self rescuing princess" badge and keep on keeping on, then.

Maybe I play females because I prefer to solo play, i.e. self rescuing. So meta.

[Desertman]

Not to derail but you know what I don't think we see enough of?

Independent female rangers.

There is just something awesome about that lone desert woman ranger (not desert elf, too easy to survive, doesn't really count) concept. That lone riding indy human/breed woman who just traverses the wastes like a badass and hunts for a living only to come to town to trade before being off on the wind again.

I've seen a handful over the years, never many....and they are always pretty epic in theory.. I always want to know more about them when I see them.

I just wish they would live longer/be around more often.


(I've seen plenty of Guild Ranger females who are actually aides, or Bynners, or crafters with an apartment, or whatever....but aren't actually RANGERS who make a living RANGERING.....I want to see more of them.)

[Is Friday]

I see them all the time. Usually they pick tribal accent and get fawned over. Or they're a manhater like Delirium and they aren't even impressed by all my sweet gear.

[Chettaman]

TBF, tough guys IRL usually aren't actually tough guys.

True enough. I get your point.
But I'm not talking about wannabes or people who get mocked with the title ''tough guy''. I'm talking about people who are actually tough.
Don't compare them or discriminate against a person for "being a tough guy".
Judge them by their actions.

I'm a tough guy. And I cry when I see bambi's mother dead. I don't cry when I get injured. And if I do, it was because I was thinking about bambi's mother dead.

xD I feel like I see plenty of the female rangers. They last as long as the male rangers.

[Desertman]

I see them all the time. Usually they pick tribal accent and get fawned over.

Generally these don't fit the criteria I'm looking for. The one's I see like this are almost always more than happy to get fawned over and write their PC with exactly getting fawned over in mind and then play it up every chance they get. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just not horribly impressed by seeing it for the 4,000th time.

[azuriolinist]

The thing with that sort of female lone-ranger concept is it would be made up of a ton of solo RP, so that's probably why there's so few of them.

I'd share a circumstance wherein one of my female characters was beat up by some guys, once, but... not enough time has passed for it to be safe to talk about. It does happen, though! Albeit rarely.

[Reiloth]

Somehow I get nitpicked over the use of the word 'sissy', and then Desertman posts.

[SuchDragonWow]

Somehow I get nitpicked over the use of the word 'sissy', and then Desertman posts.

You haven't made it until you get moderated for tongue-in-cheek posts. 

[BrokenRomance]

Not to derail but you know what I don't think we see enough of?

Independent female rangers.

There is just something awesome about that lone desert woman ranger (not desert elf, too easy to survive, doesn't really count) concept. That lone riding indy human/breed woman who just traverses the wastes like a badass and hunts for a living only to come to town to trade before being off on the wind again.

I've seen a handful over the years, never many....and they are always pretty epic in theory.. I always want to know more about them when I see them.

I just wish they would live longer/be around more often.


(I've seen plenty of Guild Ranger females who are actually aides, or Bynners, or crafters with an apartment, or whatever....but aren't actually RANGERS who make a living RANGERING.....I want to see more of them.)

Sounds to me like maybe you should stop playing in Allanak only. Because I've seen loads of solo female hunters that aren't interested in what the following posts claim they are in Luir's and stuff.

[Desertman]

Sounds to me like maybe you should stop playing in Allanak only. Because I've seen loads of solo female hunters that aren't interested in what the following posts claim they are in Luir's and stuff.

Ok.

[path]

Hey BrokenRomance, I love you for starting this thread. I love the way you just spoke out about it in that moment in game. Sending in to staff is good too, but overall, this is just good and worthy of discussion. It's just so awkward to talk about sometimes! Every time I've tried to have a conversation anywhere close to this it always becomes a total mess and I end up feeling attacked, maybe because I start out so vulnerable to begin with. It's really hard to break the silence.

So. I love you. Thank you. Good being and good broadcasting.

[Refugee]

Some of you posting on here complaining about others being pushy about sex or sexual situations have been exactly that to my PCs, trying to get them to do sexual things they don't want to do.  Don't worry, I'm fine with it, I just wanted to remind you...also it's funny.

Doesn't happen to just female PCs, and it's not just male PCs or male players doing it.  But I would agree it's mostly males.

I don't play female PCs.  I did, just once, play a female PC on an RPI (not this one).  I didn't like the way she was treated.  I didn't like guys who wouldn't take no for an answer.  She was a roughneck ranger girl, with a mate, but they still wouldn't leave her alone.  I also didn't like the special treatment.  I didn't like that people just gave her things, made it easier for her, protected her...chose to guard her when she was more competent than others in the party.  It felt like she couldn't earn respect and I didn't like that.  I played her for several hundred hours until she died a LD death, and that feeling of being somehow less respected never changed, though she was popular, and rich, and the best in the game at what she did.  So I don't play female PCs. 

My take on this discussion - If it's IC, keep it IC.  Have your PC take care of it, and if he/she can't, make a friend who can or pay someone, or get your boss to step on the troublemaker.  And sometimes your PC is going to lose. 

It's impossible to believe that adults of both sexes wouldn't be grabbing for any pleasure they could find in this miserable world, and most players here want to represent a realistic, 3D person, I think.  A lot of the PCs are assholes.  It's just that kind of world.  Sexism is terrible, but so is racism and slavery and murder.  It's not a world where there's political correctness and safe places where people's feelings don't get hurt, and it shouldn't be.

[Beethoven]

Don't know if you're referring to me, Refugee, but as I've said before, I'm aware that I've had characters that were definitely that way (pushy or lecherous). But I do hope that I never crossed the line into harassment that made people not want to log in because they felt they were being used.

[Hauwke]

I like to play a mixed bag of male/female PCs, honestly I actually flip a coin or roll a die on whether I go each gender. It has actually worked out I ended up playing almost a dozen females in a row or something but its whatever. Honestly though I havent even noticed the whole being treated special thing, Sure I have noticed more people want to seek you or for sexy funtimes but a quick no from asshole-female#40036 and they usually go away or they keep trying and always failing, and sometimes thats fun too. On one character awhile back, I had this one guy who was trying for a good IC month to get somewhere and it led nowhere and I think Pof that character knew it wasnt going anywhere oocly but icly the chsracter still wanted a piece of datass. Im fine with most rp but there is a line leading places eventually. Albeit a pretty distant line for me

[Dunetrade55]

Everything Refugee said is great, and spot on, Brokenromance. I know for a fact that poor fucker was being harrassed by tribal gicks because he said "no". It added to the story and everyone was terrified, like, NO, they CAN'T have the Sarge, let's go kill 'em! It was irritating that HE got to ride in the argosy on escorts *mumbles something*, but hey, Sarge duties. Anyway, yeah, special treatment does happen when playing a female, and the knife cuts both ways.

[Fathi]

I don't think having a tribal structure that recognises biological sex is the same as the game's lack of sexism either. We discriminate on people able to adopt many roles on Arm - magick, lack of it, heritage, bloodline, race - that a belief structure may want to reflect its beliefs embodied by an avatar of either sex is not diminishing either sex or reducing their stature.

Edit for double negatives what up

Yeah, this.

Especially when you take into account that the matrilineal society documented in the Arabet's docs (to the best of my recollection, been a bit since I played one) was based on the fact that tracing maternal lineage was the sensible option because Arabet sleep with so many people that oftentimes it's impossible to pinpoint exactly Who's Your Daddy. The Sun Runners have some of this in their docs, too, although taken in another direction.

I don't see it as sexism or diminishing the status of male tribe members to trace lineage by "the lady who gave birth to me" because in a rampantly promiscuous society without paternity tests, it's the only foolproof way to ascertain heritage and trace family lines.

Unless we start introducing Mpreg: Zalanthas Edition or code a 'mon un paternity threl inrof' spell then matrilineal societies aren't unfair or weird.