Witch Loving

[lostinspace]

If as a mage I started with all but a few spells left to branch, I would gladly give up the nil reach. I'd rather be immediately able to do the things I want to do as opposed to nil casting a bunch first. It would be great because you would just naturally progress in a spell as you needed to make use of it, and you wouldn't have to find some cave or temple to hide in while grinding for the spells you need to function independently.

LOL.  Okay.  That's like, every PC, if you substitute "skills" for "spells."

Welcome to Armageddon.

Yeah, which is why I wouldn't feel the need for a nil reach any more, because I can progress in my spells just like a mundane progresses in their skills.

[Asche]

I'd just like to point out that by documentation, how much you fear a 'gicker has a lot to do with their element, almost as much as if they're gemmed. A water mage is explicitly someone valued on caravans by documentation. And it makes sense. In a desert world, someone who can both heal and provide water is a great friend to have. Whirans make excellent messengers. Drovians are known for their spying capacity. Krathi can kill you in an instant. Nilazi are abominations unworthy of being gemmed, who make the dead dance to their bidding. Sorcerers are literally known as defilers.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be wary of 'gickers. What I'm saying is that most people wouldn't lynch a Vivaduan even if they could do it with no risk and no one finding out. They're simply too useful as walking oasises. I personally am VERY wary of Krathi when I play mundanes, but I'll be relatively accommodating with a Viv. And I think I'm playing to documentation when I do. I want someone able to heal me when that poison taints my blood. I want that Drovian to spy on my enemies for me, and keep the secrets he knows about me. I want the Krathi to not be far behind when its time to kill a Mek. Now, does that mean I should treat them like equals publicly? No. But its not necessarily me being tolerant and nice when I sweet talk the Rukkian. No more than when I invite the merchant with the fat purse into my apartment to discuss a 'business venture.'

[Asmoth]

I'd just like to point out that by documentation, how much you fear a 'gicker has a lot to do with their element, almost as much as if they're gemmed. A water mage is explicitly someone valued on caravans by documentation. And it makes sense. In a desert world, someone who can both heal and provide water is a great friend to have. Whirans make excellent messengers. Drovians are known for their spying capacity. Krathi can kill you in an instant. Nilazi are abominations unworthy of being gemmed, who make the dead dance to their bidding. Sorcerers are literally known as defilers.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be wary of 'gickers. What I'm saying is that most people wouldn't lynch a Vivaduan even if they could do it with no risk and no one finding out. They're simply too useful as walking oasises. I personally am VERY wary of Krathi when I play mundanes, but I'll be relatively accommodating with a Viv. And I think I'm playing to documentation when I do. I want someone able to heal me when that poison taints my blood. I want that Drovian to spy on my enemies for me, and keep the secrets he knows about me. I want the Krathi to not be far behind when its time to kill a Mek. Now, does that mean I should treat them like equals publicly? No. But its not necessarily me being tolerant and nice when I sweet talk the Rukkian. No more than when I invite the merchant with the fat purse into my apartment to discuss a 'business venture.'

This guy gets it.

[Inks]

I've played magickers who shunned the Nil reach, and it was a much more enjoyable experience.  However, that particular character was Gemmed... Playing a rogue under the same rules would be a lot more challenging if you want to keep it secret.

I have done this on every rogue bar one. Makes for some fun and risky times.

[Vwest]

To be fair to them, I am little bitter over the laser light show 

No one is going to begrudge you that.

I, too, am at least a little bitter over all the time I wasted leading up to that... spectacle.

[Delirium]

I think we all are, and I think the staff learned their lesson. So we can probably let it go now.

[Desertman]

That's pretty much the game.

That's pretty hyperbolic.

You could go back and delete almost everything in that post, leave the last few bits and it'd be about spot on, though.

You are wrong.

[seidhr]

I'd be happy if people stopped calling spells "weaves" as a first step.   

[BadSkeelz]

Why? I prefer that to spells, especially in the Temple settings. Helps disassociates Magick from Harry Potter Magic.

Isn't it written somewhere that spells are recorded using knots and strings (ala Quipu)? I always assumed that was the source of the phrase "weave."

[Asmoth]

I'd be happy if people stopped calling spells "weaves" as a first step.   

I played with a water Mage who tried to get me to refer to them as weaves.

I think I pans back to some lame oash noble or something.

[BadSkeelz]

Can we also change the Gem to a wizard hat

[manonfire]

I'd be happy if people stopped calling spells "weaves" as a first step.  

I've seen animated elementals and CAM speakers refer to spells as weaves. If there's been some paradigm evolution behind the scenes, it'd be cool if you shared it.

[Jave]

Why? I prefer that to spells, especially in the Temple settings. Helps disassociates Magick from Harry Potter Magic.

Isn't it written somewhere that spells are recorded using knots and strings (ala Quipu)? I always assumed that was the source of the phrase "weave."

I figured the term weaves got lifted straight out of Wheel of Time.

[BadSkeelz]

Oh, maybe. Never read it. Too much magic.

[Desertman]

Why? I prefer that to spells, especially in the Temple settings. Helps disassociates Magick from Harry Potter Magic.

Isn't it written somewhere that spells are recorded using knots and strings (ala Quipu)? I always assumed that was the source of the phrase "weave."

I figured the term weaves got lifted straight out of Wheel of Time.

We have hundreds of things in game lifted right out of other works of literature.

I actually prefer when they say weaves. I like it.

To each his own though.

[boog]

Sparkly weave.

[whitt]

I'd be happy if people stopped calling spells "weaves" as a first step.   

I wish new magickers were given some documentation on the basicks of magick.  Especially the gemmed who should have some Gem 101 instruction on what's going on with your new wrestched self beyond... Here's your gem.  Don't take it off.  Now get out of my sight.

It's been brought up before, but in the void of any real guidance player's of magickers need to explain "this, that, and the other things", like branching,  to each other somehow.  So you get "path", "weave", "horn", and "offering" because... that's what they heard someone else call it and it's not like anyone is telling them different or there's anyone to ask or anyone is ICly telling them it's not "X" it's "Y".   Oashi Mileage May Vary.

[LauraMars]

I think Seidhr is just expressing a personal preference. There's no rule against calling spells weaves.

I'm not the biggest fan of the current magic lingo in game either, but it's been the in game trend for the past while now.  Much as half-giants were called "Big" by everyone a few years ago.  Staff were pretty scathing about that too, as I recall. (As a side note, I don't really like it when staff express negative personal preferences on the gdb with their staff accounts. It can carry a lot of weight for new players, and can confuse/frustrate new and old players alike as to what is really expected of them and their roleplay.) 

It's totally possible to start a new trend and vocabulary, though. There are gemmed mage PCs who have and do take up positions of official to semi-official leadership in the game, and that sort of self appointed role would be a good place to start.  Even if there's no clan structure to support them, it isn't strictly necessary.  Corse springs to mind, Corra (before she did what she did), and Moraz.  I really liked their take on the place of gemmed in the game world.

[Jave]

I'm indifferent to what it's called in game, I was just venturing a guess as to where the term weave came from.

I actually like the lack of codified guidance that exists in game surrounding magickal instruction though. The gemmed are not literate, and the elemental temples have no rank structure by design because the state has a vested interest in making sure they don't organise and combine their innate personal power with strength of numbers and coordination.

The temples are basically little more than boarding houses or a ghetto for the gemmed to be shunted away into. Mind you, I fully concede that past iterations of the elementalist quarter were much more grand than that in both architecture and organisation. But we've done away with CAM, and those old grand temples were burned down and modest structures erected in their place to better illustrate the setting I outlined above.

So with no literacy to preserve knowledge in writing, and no structured group to pass it down by word of mouth what are you left with? A tide of ignorance rolling in to endlessly wash away your sand castles of lived experience. In that setup, mages are born and die basically starting from zero and learning what rudimentary abilities they can in that short time. Sometimes you find a mentor with a slight slight edge up on zero to help you, sometimes you don't.

That mentor may or may not have devised names for things and he shares them with you and you repeat them. Maybe you repeat them to someone you're teaching later ... Maybe those words last a few generations before the tide sweeps them away.

I like the organic cycles this produces.

[Desertman]

The answer is obvious....let's get on that more widespread literacy thing I bring up every couple of months...

[LauraMars]

Maybe you repeat them to someone you're teaching later ... Maybe those words last a few generations before the tide sweeps them away.

Not that it really matters, but I think the "weaves" and "horns" thing has been etched into the face of the game more permanently than a lot of stuff that tends to be washed away by death and change, since I've been hearing it since as far back as 2008.  (And yes, as MoF mentioned, from animated npcs as well.)

[Vwest]

You are wrong.

no, u r

It would be nice if there was some basic, limited written language available for everyone, if for no other reason than leaving notes for people.

"Hey lover, we've got a contract near Tuluk and I'll be gone and walled for a few weeks. Nothing to worry about." = "Hey, going to Vermont with hubby for the weekend so don't worry I got ganked or something! XOXO~"

I also lament how many cool journals would be left in the game from the myriad of interesting characters that have come and gone, or how much more dynamic the game would be when these journals are nabbed by burglars and sold off to the highest bidder. Or used as blackmail. Or used to thoroughly humiliate someone. Or used as latrine paper because it turns out Sally Salter is boring as hell.

/derail

[Jave]

Maybe you repeat them to someone you're teaching later ... Maybe those words last a few generations before the tide sweeps them away.

Not that it really matters, but I think the "weaves" and "horns" thing has been etched into the face of the game more permanently than a lot of stuff that tends to be washed away by death and change, since I've been hearing it since as far back as 2008.  (And yes, as MoF mentioned, from animated npcs as well.)

Horns is straight out of the magick help files isn't it?

[Desertman]

If you give me widespread literacy, I'll let you touch me Jave. I'll let you touch me like one of your French girls.  


(I have no idea what I'm doing anymore.)

[whitt]

I actually like the lack of codified guidance that exists in game surrounding magickal instruction though.

Agreed, except things like...

...the elemental temples have no rank structure...

...needs to be known, or the players will, in that vacuum create their own.

The temples are basically little more than boarding houses or a ghetto for the gemmed to be shunted away into.

... is not necessarily how the players of the gemmed view it, instead feeling that it's "their turf".  They can leave whenever they want.  Are you going to idly stroll through?  No chance, unless you're lost - then prepare for a welcome that might make the Rinth proud.  As an aside restricting gemmed from renting apartments outside the Quarter should probably be a thing.

So with no literacy to preserve knowledge in writing, and no structured group to pass it down by word of mouth what are you left with? A tide of ignorance rolling in to endlessly wash away your sand castles of lived experience. In that setup, mages are born and die basically starting from zero and learning what rudimentary abilities they can in that short time. Sometimes you find a mentor with a slight slight edge up on zero to help you, sometimes you don't.

... except there is a population of other gemmed that the new gemmed should be able to ask about this stuff, not just other players.  (Discuss is cool by the way) It seems like an artificial void of knowledge that stunts the new player of a gemmed PC.  Maybe Player Reports with these sorts of questions are the right path?  But then staff should have some documentation to fall back on.  Like "what do you call this stuff that let's us cast spells except sometimes we just can manage to anymore"?

I like the organic cycles this produces.

To be clear, so do I.  It is especially fun when a veteran player wanders into some of the new terminology and is like "what"?  That said, some of the basics of how the world works being completely devoid of documentation is really frustrating to a new player of magicker.  Anyway, I've derailed enough.