Code Suggestion: Tents big enough for at least one mount.

[Asmoth]

Not so much to stop that D-elf from stealing your mount while you're in it.  But to aid in their regen of stamina so I can ride them longer and harder...

That sounded dirtier than I intended.

[Fujikoma]

If I recall correctly, if you rest your mount you can keep ahold of the reins while you're in the tent. There are mount types that can practically cross the known with a single rest (the civilized part of it), although some tire more quickly than others. I'm not really sure ride needs to be more buff than it already is, if anything, it needs a nerf, but that's just my personal opinion. I'm kind of unsure of the effects that this would have, as most of my PCs travel on foot (with, of course, something to pack all the juicy bits they pick up along the way on, though, those beasts tire a bit slower). With skills like charge and trample, coupled with combat buffs at higher ride levels, eeeehhhhh, I'm ambivalent, just my thoughts on the matter.

[Asmoth]

If I recall correctly, if you rest your mount you can keep ahold of the reins while you're in the tent. There are mount types that can practically cross the known with a single rest (the civilized part of it), although some tire more quickly than others. I'm not really sure ride needs to be more buff than it already is, if anything, it needs a nerf, but that's just my personal opinion. I'm kind of unsure of the effects that this would have, as most of my PCs travel on foot (with, of course, something to pack all the juicy bits they pick up along the way on, though, those beasts tire a bit slower). With skills like charge and trample, coupled with combat buffs at higher ride levels, eeeehhhhh, I'm ambivalent, just my thoughts on the matter.

Yes you do technically still have the reins but either a bug or a feature allows you to lead and mount the mount regardless.

When I played a desert elf I was always stealing mounts this way.  Think my record is five stolen while their owner slept or rested in a tent.

There are other rooms as well where you codedly don't lose the reins, but since you're not in the room, people can still make off with your mount.

But it would still be nice to have a tent to share your mount in afte that run from a Mek or Bahamet etc.

[Lizzie]

If I recall correctly, if you rest your mount you can keep ahold of the reins while you're in the tent. There are mount types that can practically cross the known with a single rest (the civilized part of it), although some tire more quickly than others. I'm not really sure ride needs to be more buff than it already is, if anything, it needs a nerf, but that's just my personal opinion. I'm kind of unsure of the effects that this would have, as most of my PCs travel on foot (with, of course, something to pack all the juicy bits they pick up along the way on, though, those beasts tire a bit slower). With skills like charge and trample, coupled with combat buffs at higher ride levels, eeeehhhhh, I'm ambivalent, just my thoughts on the matter.

Yes you do technically still have the reins but either a bug or a feature allows you to lead and mount the mount regardless.

When I played a desert elf I was always stealing mounts this way.  Think my record is five stolen while their owner slept or rested in a tent.

There are other rooms as well where you codedly don't lose the reins, but since you're not in the room, people can still make off with your mount.

But it would still be nice to have a tent to share your mount in afte that run from a Mek or Bahamet etc.

That's just a risk you have to take when you travel. Personally I think that if you are sleeping, it is not believable that no one can untangle the reins from your grip and steal your mount even if it's right next to you. They can steal everything you're wearing - but they can't steal your mount?

If you're worried about people stealing your mount, make use of that code that makes no sense. Rest next to your mount without a tent and accept the risk of hunger/thirst. If you're worried about you needing to rest, then accept a risk of theft of your mount.

Or you could play a mage that is able to make accommodations for both - and risk getting caught being a mage.

Travel shouldn't be effortless, and it shouldn't be without risk.

[manipura]

If a tent was big enough for your mount to be resting in it, presumably large enough for an inix to get in and out of, wouldn't this be the size of a small circus tent?  I don't figure you'd want to carry this enormous (and very heavy) tent with you.  Tents are already fifteen to twenty stones.  One that comfortably fits something like an inix...how big would that be?  Twice as big?  Where are you going to keep this forty stone tent?

Like Lizzie said, travel shouldn't be effortless and it shouldn't be without risk.  Part of traveling across a desert world and back in 140F temperatures in a single day is having to rest your small dinosaur, or your enormous beetle.

[Refugee]

If I recall correctly, if you rest your mount you can keep ahold of the reins while you're in the tent.

Yes...it's a bug.   As I found out when my beetle loaded down with a couple large of gear and loot was taken from my very hands!  At least I thought I had hold of it.  I was keeping an eye out every few seconds and got out fast enough to see the guy riding away on his beetle with my beetle in tow, but after a couple of rooms of chase I knew I'd no chance of keeping up and went back to my tent. 

Tents are so heavy already, I think such large tents would be unmanageable and require a team of slaves to raise.  As nice as it would be to have!

[CodeMaster]

*shakes his head from the listening ledge*

[manipura]

*shakes his head from the listening ledge*

[Fujikoma]

If I recall correctly, if you rest your mount you can keep ahold of the reins while you're in the tent.

Yes...it's a bug.   As I found out when my beetle loaded down with a couple large of gear and loot was taken from my very hands!  At least I thought I had hold of it.  I was keeping an eye out every few seconds and got out fast enough to see the guy riding away on his beetle with my beetle in tow, but after a couple of rooms of chase I knew I'd no chance of keeping up and went back to my tent. 

Tents are so heavy already, I think such large tents would be unmanageable and require a team of slaves to raise.  As nice as it would be to have!

Huh. The only time my mount's ever been stolen from me was when a mullish raider took a mace to my breeds neck, then just whistled a tune, took the reigns (and my cloak and a small list of items) and made off, as the breed lay unconscious on the salt with 8 hp.

[valeria]

If a tent was big enough for your mount to be resting in it, presumably large enough for an inix to get in and out of, wouldn't this be the size of a small circus tent?  I don't figure you'd want to carry this enormous (and very heavy) tent with you.  Tents are already fifteen to twenty stones.  One that comfortably fits something like an inix...how big would that be?  Twice as big?  Where are you going to keep this forty stone tent?

This is what I was trying to think of a way to articulate.

[Asmoth]

If I recall correctly, if you rest your mount you can keep ahold of the reins while you're in the tent. There are mount types that can practically cross the known with a single rest (the civilized part of it), although some tire more quickly than others. I'm not really sure ride needs to be more buff than it already is, if anything, it needs a nerf, but that's just my personal opinion. I'm kind of unsure of the effects that this would have, as most of my PCs travel on foot (with, of course, something to pack all the juicy bits they pick up along the way on, though, those beasts tire a bit slower). With skills like charge and trample, coupled with combat buffs at higher ride levels, eeeehhhhh, I'm ambivalent, just my thoughts on the matter.

Yes you do technically still have the reins but either a bug or a feature allows you to lead and mount the mount regardless.

When I played a desert elf I was always stealing mounts this way.  Think my record is five stolen while their owner slept or rested in a tent.

There are other rooms as well where you codedly don't lose the reins, but since you're not in the room, people can still make off with your mount.

But it would still be nice to have a tent to share your mount in afte that run from a Mek or Bahamet etc.

That's just a risk you have to take when you travel. Personally I think that if you are sleeping, it is not believable that no one can untangle the reins from your grip and steal your mount even if it's right next to you. They can steal everything you're wearing - but they can't steal your mount?

If you're worried about people stealing your mount, make use of that code that makes no sense. Rest next to your mount without a tent and accept the risk of hunger/thirst. If you're worried about you needing to rest, then accept a risk of theft of your mount.

Or you could play a mage that is able to make accommodations for both - and risk getting caught being a mage.

Travel shouldn't be effortless, and it shouldn't be without risk.

If a tent was big enough for your mount to be resting in it, presumably large enough for an inix to get in and out of, wouldn't this be the size of a small circus tent?  I don't figure you'd want to carry this enormous (and very heavy) tent with you.  Tents are already fifteen to twenty stones.  One that comfortably fits something like an inix...how big would that be?  Twice as big?  Where are you going to keep this forty stone tent?

Like Lizzie said, travel shouldn't be effortless and it shouldn't be without risk.  Part of traveling across a desert world and back in 140F temperatures in a single day is having to rest your small dinosaur, or your enormous beetle.

I understand all these points but will trump them by saying that when I played with the byn in a time of TONS of bynners, we once had about ten grown ass big Zalanthas men in a tent.

So if that many guys can fit in a tent, pretty sure my war beetle could.

And this isn't about making travel easy by any means, it's just about dealing with stupidly slow mount regen rates.

[MeTekillot]

You know, your unverified anecdote really swayed me on this. Let's get some 5-stone circus tents up in this bitch.

[Molten Heart]

Waiting for a mount to rest up can be a huge hassle, especially when out in the middle of nowhere and the weather is bad. I've had to wait a full day or more before a mount was rested enough to ride back to where I came from. It be good if there were some way to make mounts more manageable so they aren't suddenly useless, requiring so much down time.

[whitt]

Waiting for a mount to rest up can be a huge hassle, especially when out in the middle of nowhere and the weather is bad. I've had to wait a full day or more before a mount was rested enough to ride back to where I came from. It be good if there were some way to make mounts more manageable so they aren't suddenly useless, requiring so much down time.

#thanksmagickers

[Asmoth]

Waiting for a mount to rest up can be a huge hassle, especially when out in the middle of nowhere and the weather is bad. I've had to wait a full day or more before a mount was rested enough to ride back to where I came from. It be good if there were some way to make mounts more manageable so they aren't suddenly useless, requiring so much down time.

This...

I've had times I had to run from something a good distance and tire out my mount.

Left it to scout the area, taking the huge stamina hit every room I walked around and got back Very Tired.

Sat down next to it to rest and I have rested faster than my mount, which is native to the outdoors.

Think about that, it's like I have a camel in the real world which is designed for desert travel, but I can walk seventeen miles in the desert and just sit Indian style for ten minutes and be not tired anymore, while my camel is panting and exhausted... WTF.

[manipura]

You know, your unverified anecdote really swayed me on this. Let's get some 5-stone circus tents up in this bitch.

Code Select Expand

An enormous but lightweight striped tent is here, the sounds of exhausted critters and men filtering out.
An average man stands outside the tent's entrance,  training listen.

As for resting mounts, I just see it as something that needs to be done.  Are you stopping to let your mount eat and drink?  Or are you riding it until it's exhausted?  Are you finding a suitable place for it to rest (out of a storm or in the shade) ?  Maybe don't push it until it's exhausted, leaving it useless and leaving you no other choice but to sit in the middle of a Zalanthan sandstorm.

Yeah, a camel is designed for desert travel.  Is a huge inix designed for desert travel, or a beetle?  Just because we ride then across the world three times a day doesn't mean they are suited to desert travel, it means they tolerate riders.

[Molten Heart]

What if mounts could be watered, or fed to help them rest more quickly? What other things could be done to help mounts rest up more quickly, or maybe even help them last longer (blankets? special stables? special mounts?)

Maybe if mounts simply regained stamina more quickly while resting it wouldn't be a problem.

[MeTekillot]

I've had good results with resting them in shaded spots and caves before they're utterly exhausted, personally. Most mounts last long enough to ride from one end of the Known to the other, don't they? I mean, have mounts changed appreciably since the last time I rode one from Red Storm to Tuluk?

[Asmoth]

I've had good results with resting them in shaded spots and caves before they're utterly exhausted, personally. Most mounts last long enough to ride from one end of the Known to the other, don't they? I mean, have mounts changed appreciably since the last time I rode one from Red Storm to Tuluk?

Depending on the mount, yes they will. But I know I'm talking about using them as more than a method to get from city to city.

It almost isn't worth trying to play a totally outdoor ranger due to the fact that half your time is spent waiting on you mount to regen it's stamina.

Add in if you're traveling somewhere away from the known settlements and your forced to sit and be a big target for desert elves, magicker a and all sorts of other evildoers heh.

[MeTekillot]

Yes, that's true, traveling is dangerous and difficult.

[Refugee]

It almost isn't worth trying to play a totally outdoor ranger due to the fact that half your time is spent waiting on you mount to regen it's stamina.

That doesn't seem to match up with my experience.  It does matter where you choose to rest them, though.

[whitt]

What if mounts could be watered, or fed to help them rest more quickly? What other things could be done to help mounts rest up more quickly, or maybe even help them last longer (blankets? special stables? special mounts?)

This happens.  No special Stables needed.  You just need to get somewhere that professional critter handlers can do these things for you.

[Molten Heart]

What if mounts could be watered, or fed to help them rest more quickly? What other things could be done to help mounts rest up more quickly, or maybe even help them last longer (blankets? special stables? special mounts?)

This happens.  No special Stables needed.  You just need to get somewhere that professional critter handlers can do these things for you.

If we dislike change and features, that's fine. We all aren't going to agree on everything. Are you against new features to facilitate increased rates of mounts resting all together, or are you simply opposed to the ideas being presented?

[whitt]

Are you against new features to facilitate increased rates of mounts resting all together, or are you simply opposed to the ideas being presented?

Moreso, was trying to point out this (refreshing a mount in a stable) is already an option.

[Asmoth]

Are you against new features to facilitate increased rates of mounts resting all together, or are you simply opposed to the ideas being presented?

Moreso, was trying to point out this (refreshing a mount in a stable) is already an option.

I have always felt this was a bit twinky, let's throw the mount into the stable and wait ten minutes for the group of beetle masseuses to run away all the fatigue and then get it back out and it's fresh as new.

[KankWhisperer]

It's traditional for older players to try and crush new players ideas. Then we can focus on brags and changing our stupid avatars and posting mocking gifs and such.

I've also had the idea for this before. I think if you made it exceptionally heavy and expensive it would be fine. Why not encourage ppl to go out and be unsafe and risk their uber expensive tent? I don't think saying wtf noobs don't you know all the shade rooms yet is particularly helpful.

[whitt]

I have always felt this was a bit twinky, let's throw the mount into the stable and wait ten minutes for the group of beetle masseuses to run away all the fatigue and then get it back out and it's fresh as new.

Agreed.  I'd rather either:
a) Actually have a second beetle already stabled - ala pony express and actually pull out the second beetle.
or
b) Go with the understanding that the stable will pass you a new beetle and keep your old one for the cost of the stabling fee.  This seems less likely, but at least isn't "beetle masseuses".

Anyway, getting away from the point of OP.  And agreeing with KankWhisperer.  Someone should start working on MasterCrafting a mount tent.  Technically a mount lean-to should suffice.  Just something to cast shade and break the wind.  Paging Kurac?

[Fujikoma]

It's traditional for older players to try and crush new players ideas. Then we can focus on brags and changing our stupid avatars and posting mocking gifs and such.

I've also had the idea for this before. I think if you made it exceptionally heavy and expensive it would be fine. Why not encourage ppl to go out and be unsafe and risk their uber expensive tent? I don't think saying wtf noobs don't you know all the shade rooms yet is particularly helpful.

I seem to recall a certain player posting an idea for Luir's storage lockers and being told it was never going to happen because it violates the spirit of Luir's, as it's only supposed to be a stopover place and not somewhere people live...

EDIT: At any rate, a lean-to sounds like an interesting concept. I'd be able to get behind that. Circus tent? Eh, not so much.

[Armaddict]

Eh.

I remember when we did away with kanks and made mounts have lower movement points in order to make just this scenario prevalent.  I think older players are against it because we remember how it was before, and remember that we wanted it changed away from that.  To counter the change we made is to be wishy-washy for the sake of someone who wants things to be more convenient in an area of the game that is not supposed to be remotely convenient.  The desert is not where casual play goes.  Going out to hunt should either be local, or a planned trip of a good amount of time.  Schedule accordingly.

That said...shelter for beasts could be expanded on with that whole ranger-shelter-building idea, if staff did indeed decide to make rangers shift away from combat and more fully into desert utility.  But as noted, I don't think enormous shelters are viable as a solution, due to the idea that the beast would be burdened down heavily by the thing that was meant to help it out.  Which I guess, if you're willing to make a tradeoff for faster regen in exchange for more common stops, I won't argue against, but I feel like that's kind of a unnecessary extra option.

Edit:

It's traditional for older players to try and crush new players ideas. Then we can focus on brags and changing our stupid avatars and posting mocking gifs and such.

I've also had the idea for this before. I think if you made it exceptionally heavy and expensive it would be fine. Why not encourage ppl to go out and be unsafe and risk their uber expensive tent? I don't think saying wtf noobs don't you know all the shade rooms yet is particularly helpful.

It's nice that you build it into a 'Haha, shit on the newer players!  VETERANS FOR LIFE BITCHES' appearance, but that's not what it is.  Usually it's that older players, as I'm sure you're aware, have argued for or against things for a long time, and have very well defined ideas of how things should or should not be.  We argue with each other about it just as much, as can be noted by reading any topic and noting that veterans are on separate sides.  Sometimes, ideas are proposed that go against changes that were fought for in the past, and so we don't want things to go back to how they were.  Likewise, when a game is based around being harsh, we have our own ideas of how that harshness should be implemented.  But insinuating that older players will go against ideas 'just because' is neither true, or a healthy idea to foster.  Sometimes, we're just more conservative and like to very closely examine effects of change on a grand scale, rather than the immediate effect.

[RogueGunslinger]

Have you guys never carried around one of those big-ass canopies to the beach? They are not that heavy, they are huge. They can easily have walls to cover all four sides. They would be fairly expensive. About what a tent costs now, actually (why the hell are they so expensive? It's some sticks and some hide, for fucks sake.)


It's 100% possible to fit an inix in one. What exactly is peoples problem with a mount being in the tent? I'm not quite getting it. You don't want mounts to recover stamina faster? Uh, they already recover stamina fast enough and there are plenty of shaded resting spots between towns, this wouldn't even be their most common use. It would be for the miner who wants to head out and mine for a day without risking losing his beetle to someone who just happens by. And that absolutely makes sense.

[Delirium]

I don't want to risk losing my mount, that would be so harsh and awful and mean, having to sit and watch out of the tent is just so harrrrrrrd.

what game are we playing here again? Hugageddon?

Take a friend, or take the risk.

[RogueGunslinger]

Uhh trying to mitigate IC risk ICly with additions that are cool and neat and make sense? Fuck me right?

Edit: Some of you can really be snide assholes.

[Fujikoma]

But wait, I thought obsessive mining was part of the cause of economic imbalance so we need things to rot. I'm, really getting confused here. Not that I'm necessarily opposed to mining, or the current economical imbalance... still, an inix is HUGE, a lean-to would do it without weighing too much and needing too much setup time, whereas a circus tent would not. Now, trying to fit a beetle into a big camo tent, I don't know that I'm opposed to that. Still, it's all complicated, it's my understanding that parts of the code are rather simplistic in nature, and I don't know diddly-doo about coding new changes, so I can't make a value judgement on this.

EDIT: Wouldn't it be cool if a lean-to was a thing you could set up that would shade the room you're in, and totally be snagged by those dastardly elves at any time?... still, considering simple construction, should be cheap to replace.

[RogueGunslinger]

What is someone wants to just stay outside. They don't want to sit around in a quit-room, because there's way too much traffic. They don't want to sit out in a storm, because... that's stupid. They don't want to sit in a tent, because their beetle will get stolen. Might as well go back in the city and sit at the bar.

[Armaddict]

Not so much to stop that D-elf from stealing your mount while you're in it.  But to aid in their regen of stamina so I can ride them longer and harder...

That sounded dirtier than I intended.

The intention seems to be the opposite of what you said, RGS.  Unless there is a sarcasm tag that I'm missing, which is possible with text.

But even then...I don't think the 'hitch' death-grip needs to be emphasized.  Nor does the issue of mount theft need to be overemphasized, because I think it is.  This isn't even a playability argument.  This just people not wanting to have to deal with other people being opportunistic.

[RogueGunslinger]

Oh, huh. Well, intention isn't all that important, I suppose. I wouldn't use them for that function.

[quote  This isn't even a playability argument.  This just people not wanting to have to deal with other people being opportunistic.

No, this is people wanting a WAY to deal with people who are opportunistic. If I spend five large on a tent to do that, what exactly is the problem?

[Fujikoma]

Not to mention, it may stop opportunistic people, but it's unlikely to stop an opportunistic scrab, and then, have fun replacing your inix tent.

[Delirium]

Armaddict understands.

[RogueGunslinger]

Well he's certainly nicer when he makes his points.

[Delirium]

Right, inferred tone matters, and that obviously came across as more caustic than it was meant to.

But man, you guys are really making it hard to take yourselves seriously. Inix tents?

What I'm trying to say is... embrace the risk. There is really not half as much fun in this game without crazy risks.

[Armaddict]

I don't have an actual problem with it, exactly...so much as I think it's an idea sprouting out of measures we've purposely taken in order to make the game more akin to what we wanted the world to be.  In other words, it's going against the vision that was originally followed.  I can hop on board with change, when it's going in the direction I agree with, but in this case, I don't really want mounts to be regenerating faster, and I find the idea of people dragging huge tents around with them as portable stables to be...strange.  I don't think we even did that historically in real life for beasts of burden because of how impractical it was (I could be wrong.)  Caravans just moved at steady, slow speeds, rather than depend on a portable stable to make their mounts 'well rested' every night.

So far as mount snatching...I kind of like the risk of it.  It keeps me on my toes in the desert, which is how it always has been for me.  This is a matter of personal preference...to be honest, I've had more mount-snatching happen in the bazaar in Allanak when I was shopping in a stand than outside the city.  The idea that it can be hitched by someone else while you're inside always made sense to me, with the 'hitch' remaining on you being the boon to playability, so that I didn't have to rehitch it every time I left the building, rather than it signifying I was still holding the mount.  Again, I'm not arguing against the coding or anything like that.  I just think it's a mostly foreign idea based out of OOC roots to spring out the idea of a portable stable, and I'd kind of rather people have to be vigilant in the desert to be confident in holding onto their things, rather than making it harder to take things...particularly with the world as hostile to such actions as it is.  Likewise, I'd rather people plan out long trips, complete with resting holes and staging areas, for long trips, than just be able to count on their resting breaks only taking 5-10 real life minutes.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm all for risk. I just think that if someone finds an IC way to mitigate that risk, then why the hell not? I'm not so sure what's hard to believe about a tent that can fit an inix without it being a circus tent.

Obviously it doesn't have to be anywhere near this complex, but walled canopies are not some sort of advanced technology:




And if that's hard for you to imagine, the lean-to idea from Fuji was an interesting one.

[Asanadas]

Here's an idea:

l spike

You look at the menacing mount spike
This spike, made of carved mekillot bone, looks as though it would hold itself steady even in loose sands.
A few holes have been cut through the upper part, allowing for a tamed animal's reigns to be laced through.

rest beetle;unhitch beetle;hitch beetle spike
>You hitch the beetle to the mount spike.

unhitch beetle spike
>You start unhitching the beetle from the mount spike.
[10 second Heartbeat delay]
>You unhitch (etc.)

[Malken]

How about more shaded areas? (or areas that become shaded during certain time of the day)

I think that'd be a decent compromise.

[Armaddict]

The hitching post would be a more viable product, I think, over the 'Come and stay in the shade with me, dirty shitting beetle/dinosaur.'

I'm unsure of how difficult to code that would be.  There's other things that need to be fleshed out with it, such as how it's erected, taken down...and what affect that has on mounts.  How long the delay would be.  Etc.

Part of what I hate about tents is that they're instantly put up and taken down and rolled up.  Blammo!  Magick!  No time wasted.  Takes me longer to pick up a rock than to set up a tent, woo!

[RogueGunslinger]

All of the above are really great points and ideas. I'd love a hitching post so fucking much. Especially if there were ones staked outside of taverns and at certain places in the bazaar. It's a good compromise because you'd still have to watch the mount to make sure it's not stolen, but it won't be so damn easy for the thief to just jump in and run away with.

[Molten Heart]

I could see an erdlu easily fitting into existing tents.

[Delirium]

You notice: An erdlu squeezes out a sloppy pile of fecal matter.

>leave

>look
A smelly stained desert-camouflaged tent is pitched here.

[Bushranger]

Yes, that's true, traveling is dangerous and difficult.

Why do we need to make travelling in a harsh, dangerous desert world easier than it is now? Things have already been made ridiculously easy to travel across the Known. I'd rather things were made more difficult.

Also master craft your enormous tent Asmoth, that's what master craft is for! You've no idea the kind of trouble that animals pooping in a tent causes. You should ask a certain Dasari noble and his adorable aides about that

[KankWhisperer]

This would actually cause more interaction out in the sands because the guy is obviously planning to stop, set up a tent, enter the tent and do stuff and wait a while. The alternative is just head straight there.

[hopeandsorrow]

I just wish mounts showed some fucking loyalty ya know?

Pull the fat ass war beetle out every hole in the known, kept the poor beast alive through thick and thin and the first time Yolo the dwarf rolls up... just wanders off with him?

Beetles got no loyalty yo.

[Molten Heart]

You notice: An erdlu squeezes out a sloppy pile of fecal matter.

>leave

>look
A smelly stained desert-camouflaged tent is pitched here.

Smelling better on the outside than on the inside, I'm sure.

[manipura]

It seems like the original intentions behind the idea are to be able to ride your mounts faster and harder and then have them easily regain their stamina to ride faster and harder again.  I didn't get the impression that this big tent was being set up for an extended period of interaction in the wilderness.

I share Bushranger's thoughts from above: traveling in a harsh, dangerous world is already very easy.  
If someone wants their PC to travel alone, it should always be a risk...because traveling the desert alone is ridiculously risky.  As it should be.

And RGS, I get the idea of a portable tent.  For this to be protective against a Zalanthan storm, it would need sides on it.  It would need to be big enough for an inix, which is something like sixteen or seventeen feet long.  Do you really think that a seventeen by seventeen foot (minimum) enclosure would be lightweight?  The type we have in RL that you're using as an example uses materials like thin steel posts and ripstop polyethylene fabric.  The sort of pop-up instant garages that people use for their vehicles.  I don't imagine those are lightweight like a picnic table canopy.  And once it's made with Zalanthan materials (a number of wooden poles and a few lengths of fabric or hides) I can imagine it's even heavier and bulkier.

[RogueGunslinger]

Well, first off it wouldn't need to be big enough for an inix. That is the largest mount we have. I was only using the examples of the canopy because it could easily hold an Inix. It would also not matter how heavy it was. I'm not even sure why the argument is getting down to gritty details. What we're talking about here isn't unrealistic. I just think you should be able to sit in a tent/lean-to/canopy, and not have to be detached from your mount by the same coded distance we use to measure leagues of distance in an outside room. Because that -is- unrealistic. And the "risk" you all are so heavily advocating for really isn't much of a risk to someone with a tent. Oh no, they'll have to walk back to town, how ever will they deal with their loss of stamina. The real risk would be someone attacking your very expensive, big tent and destroying it.

[Asmoth]

I don't ride no inix... I've always thought someone smaller than a mul riding them was sorta silly. But as that guy said, not everyone is trying to cover their inix.

[hopeandsorrow]

I don't ride no inix... I've always thought someone smaller than a mul riding them was sorta silly. But as that guy said, not everyone is trying to cover their inix.

Does this change your mind?

Who wouldn't wanna ride this?

[manipura]

It would also not matter how heavy it was. I'm not even sure why the argument is getting down to gritty details.

The idea was posed that there be tents big enough to contain a mount, so they can regain stamina quickly.  If these tents existed, they would be items that your PC would have with them, yeah?  To set up when they stopped?  Weight matters, because it's presumably something you're carrying with you.  If it's some sort of lean-to that you're making,  weight still matters because you should need the materials to make it and it should be more than a couple poles and a chalton hide.  And in a Zalanthan sandstorm, I don't think something without sides (like a lean-to) would be super effective in protecting from the elements.

[Asmoth]

It would also not matter how heavy it was. I'm not even sure why the argument is getting down to gritty details.

The idea was posed that there be tents big enough to contain a mount, so they can regain stamina quickly.  If these tents existed, they would be items that your PC would have with them, yeah?  To set up when they stopped?  Weight matters, because it's presumably something you're carrying with you.  If it's some sort of lean-to that you're making,  weight still matters because you should need the materials to make it and it should be more than a couple poles and a chalton hide.  And in a Zalanthan sandstorm, I don't think something without sides (like a lean-to) would be super effective in protecting from the elements.

Really no tent would be able to stand up to Zalanthan Sandstorms if you read the descriptions of them and the weather.

But I'm not sure why we are so worried about the hyper realisticness of this now all the sudden.

This is a game with magick, this is a game with mindworms, and this is a game with psychotelepathic bugs for god sakes, do we really need to worry about the physics of every object?  If that's the case we wouldn't have half the desert elf camps, because they would have been blown away.

[RogueGunslinger]

It would also not matter how heavy it was. I'm not even sure why the argument is getting down to gritty details.

The idea was posed that there be tents big enough to contain a mount, so they can regain stamina quickly.  If these tents existed, they would be items that your PC would have with them, yeah?  To set up when they stopped?  Weight matters, because it's presumably something you're carrying with you.  If it's some sort of lean-to that you're making,  weight still matters because you should need the materials to make it and it should be more than a couple poles and a chalton hide.  And in a Zalanthan sandstorm, I don't think something without sides (like a lean-to) would be super effective in protecting from the elements.

But what does that have to do with the idea been good or not? Even if it was so heavy that half-giants had to drag it behind them it would not be pertinent to whether it should or should not be in-game. Details can be tweaked, changed, made better. If you're asking if I think a human could carry around an enclosure that was big enough to fit an inix, then my answer would be yes, absolutely, even considering zalanthan materials like hide and bone. And it would be made even easier by being able to let your big ass Inix carry it around for you.

As for needing sides to protect from elements. There are numerous places in the game that are coded to be better on regeneration because of the shade they provide. Maybe it wouldn't even have to be like our tents that you enter. Just something you prop up that shades the area like a canopy.

[manipura]

Really no tent would be able to stand up to Zalanthan Sandstorms if you read the descriptions of them and the weather.

But I'm not sure why we are so worried about the hyper realisticness of this now all the sudden.

This is a game with magick, this is a game with mindworms, and this is a game with psychotelepathic bugs for god sakes, do we really need to worry about the physics of every object?  If that's the case we wouldn't have half the desert elf camps, because they would have been blown away.

You're right, it's not realistic.  But oh well, realism shouldn't matter, I guess?

We're supposed to be realistically RPing our PCs, as best we can.  Things like not crafting or sparring for two days straight are mentioned when realism pops up...but when someone decides they want something that isn't realistic it becomes "Hey, it's a game with magick and telepathic beings, fuck realism."

I don't think a person carrying around a tent big enough for a mount, plus all the other shit they have with them, is realistic.
I don't think riding across the Known and back in one day, without having to rest your mount or feed and water it is realistic.

But since this is a game with magick and telepathic beings, the next time I head out for a quick zip across the world, I'll bring two weightless beetle-tents and make the trek in ten minutes, because it's infinitely more playable than taking encumbrance and time into account.

Yes we suspend realism in a lot of ways, but I think it makes the game better to consider the realism of things in the world, and especially of changes or additions to the world.  If my PC looks at a weapon in a shop and can't use it because it's too heavy, then it's not a stretch to suggest that the average human shouldn't be walking about with a tent large enough for an inix, as suggested above.

RGS, you think a human can easily be carrying around an inix enclosure, i think that's silly.  Since encumbrance is an actual thing in game, I tend to keep it in mind.  But we'll agree to disagree here then.

And whether or not something is a good idea, in my opinion, is a lot to do with whether it fits the game world, whether it's realistic to the game world.  So when someone proposes an idea and I don't think it adds to the game world, as its suggested, and I don't think it's horribly realistic to the game world, as suggested, then I don't think it's a great idea.

Carry on with the discussion, I'm done arguing details when details apparently don't matter.
I'm going to go dress my elven merchant in horror shell gear to craft non stop for four days, because realism-schmealism. 

[Armaddict]

And whether or not something is a good idea, in my opinion, is a lot to do with whether it fits the game world, whether it's realistic to the game world.  So when someone proposes an idea and I don't think it adds to the game world, as its suggested, and I don't think it's horribly realistic to the game world, as suggested, then I don't think it's a great idea.

This is the place I tend to come from as well.  I just don't see the scenario where someone brings a tent-like structure specifically designed for sheltering mounts in a temporary manner.  If it was a multiple-day encampment, then that's something else.  But I think the tendency would be 'I'm not going out in a storm like this', over 'I will haul around a big tent to share with my mount so that I can keep an eye on it.'

Hitch post, if we could figure it out, would work, maybe.  But the assertion that this is entirely practical comes from a place of 'But I want it' more than anything else, I think.

I think you guys came on a little strong to shoot down the weight thing.  You presented an idea, there were counterpoints as to why it probably didn't or wouldn't exist, and you essentially argued about it for a little bit, then tossed it aside when it became clear that it would indeed be something of concern.  If zalanthan materials that would make it serve the purpose you want would be an issue...then it's an issue, obviously.  I tend to agree that if it were put in, it would be heavy enough that it wouldn't be for single riders...but rather as parts carried on multiple beasts for a larger community tent.

Then again...I still wouldn't even approve of that until we made tents/shelters take time to assemble.  I don't see this as a hindrance to playability or an addition to realism, which makes it one that I feel pretty good about giving the thumbs up to shoot down, in that current state.

The hitch-post has more promise for RGS's issue.  As far as making mounts able to regenerate faster?  That's the issue I think is there on purpose.

[RogueGunslinger]

RGS, you think a human can easily be carrying around an inix enclosure, i think that's silly. 

Who said anything about easy? Tents are already heavy, I'd expect these to be even heavier.

I think you guys came on a little strong to shoot down the weight thing.  You presented an idea, there were counterpoints as to why it probably didn't or wouldn't exist, and you essentially argued about it for a little bit, then tossed it aside when it became clear that it would indeed be something of concern.  If zalanthan materials that would make it serve the purpose you want would be an issue...then it's an issue, obviously.  I tend to agree that if it were put in, it would be heavy enough that it wouldn't be for single riders...but rather as parts carried on multiple beasts for a larger community tent.

The reason why I'm happy to discard the weight thing is because it's focusing on one tiny aspect of the idea (an inix sized tent) instead of the other possibilities, like big enough for just a beetle or lean-to's that only provide shade instead of the full benefit of a tent or a million other ideas.   It has absolutely nothing to do with weight being of concern, because I still don't think it's a concern even when considered. Yes, it would have to be pretty damn heavy for it to hold an inix, but not so heavy a person couldn't wear one on their back, or strap it to a mount.

And whether or not something is a good idea, in my opinion, is a lot to do with whether it fits the game world, whether it's realistic to the game world.  So when someone proposes an idea and I don't think it adds to the game world, as its suggested, and I don't think it's horribly realistic to the game world, as suggested, then I don't think it's a great idea.

This is the place I tend to come from as well.  I just don't see the scenario where someone brings a tent-like structure specifically designed for sheltering mounts in a temporary manner.  If it was a multiple-day encampment, then that's something else.  But I think the tendency would be 'I'm not going out in a storm like this', over 'I will haul around a big tent to share with my mount so that I can keep an eye on it.'

This idea of realism when it come to practicality is a good argument though. I like the hitch-post idea and the shading lean-to idea for these reasons.

What if it was a ranger skill? The better the skill at constructing lean-to's the better it sheltered you from heat and sand.

[Asmoth]

How about just keeping it simple and make a big umbrella that allows you to create shade?

Or is that too hard to do too?

[Fujikoma]

Maybe anyone could construct one, but ranger the most skillfully. I'm not sure which skill it would rely on. Could have a skill roll determine stability of the shelter, and once per tick roll the stability against the weather patterns, if failure, then it collapses, likely smacking everyone for a few damage, irritating everyone, and having to be set up again, as well as increased shelter values for higher skill rolls? What existing skill would it use though, to spread it realisticly? Or maybe could have it use tentmaking just to make merchants valuable in the field.

[Armaddict]

I feel like we'd need a definitive direction for rangers, if there is any, from staff before we speculated on new skills, but if they are made survivalist/hunter vs combatant/military then it would be a damn good fit.

I'm not sure if the OP would consider the hitching post a derail of his thread, though.  I don't think that it would give regeneration bonus, but for your issue, RGS, I think it should be explored to see if the coding is worth it.

[Lizzie]

There are mounts that do regen quicker than others. There are also mounts that don't NEED to regen as quickly, because they have tons of stamina and it takes the entire length of the game world before they're exhausted. If your mount is running out of steam before you can get from point A to point B, then you need to rest it -before- it gets that far. Once stamina drops to a certain point, the time it takes to regen each point goes up. Assess -v your mount regularly - if it appears "tired" then it's time to look for a resting spot. If you wait til it's "very" tired, then you just wore your mount ragged and it *should* take awhile to regen, whether he's in the shade or in a sandstorm. Also, I've noticed some people forget to type WALK after fleeing, to slow their mount back down after they've gotten safely away from whatever was chasing them. No need for a huge tent there - just a need for you to pay attention to what you're doing.

I've had mounts take a long time to regen and I get that it's frustrating but - it was my own fault for riding it into a sandstorm after I already knew the thing was tired, and kept going anyway. What I -should- have done, was abandon the mount and walked to my destination. It made no IC sense to just sit there for almost a RL hour waiting for the mount to regen. It also made no OOC sense. But I just didn't want to let go of the mount and all the STUFF on it. Because all of that, was more important than what makes sense, both ICly and OOCly.

So - in summary - if your mount is SO tired that you need a tent big enough to put him in - then you rode him too hard and now you should RP the consequences of that. Also don't forget you can quit-ooc while mounted or hitched and return to the game with the mount. He'll still be tired, but it's still an option if you need to leave the game.

[JackGibbons]

I think the point that some people are missing is that it makes perfect sense ICly to seek to be stronger, better, faster. To come up with new ways to overcome challenges like exhausted mounts when you're not near natural shade. The hyperbole of "well if you're going to make a tent that you can squeeze a mount into, then let's discuss the inix case and then dismiss the entire category" doesn't seem to be a helpful opinion to me, neither does the "the game is SUPPOSED to be hard, so you're not supposed to try to innovate to make life easier" despite that being a pretty realistic emotion and driving force in general. There are a lot of good counter points, though, like the fact that it will get smelly and dirty being up in there with a mount, and that the newer, larger tents should have higher weight to them.

Probably the best bet here is to talk with someone ICly good with tentmaking, so probably a Kuraci, and see if you can get them to mastercraft something for you. Staff can weigh in on that mastercraft with its feasibility. Of course, there may not be a way to codedly permit the smallest mounts while excluding the larger ones: it may simply be a yes or no "Can mounts go in here?" situation. In which case, it may not be worth the coder time to make a more complex 'mount volume' system.

I'm getting a bit of a 'this game is supposed to be hard and if you change anything that makes it easier you are destroying what makes this game fun' vibe from some of the critiques though, which I think is a bit overboard compared to the actual proposal.

[Lizzie]

Jack I think what you're missing here is this:

You can ride your mount til he's just gone from "winded" to "tired," and look for a place to rest him. Rest him for 10-15 minutes.
Finish your ride, stable your mount, done.

or

You can ride your mount til he's "very tired" or "exhausted," rest him for close to 1/2 hour, if not longer since he's too tired for you to seek a suitable place to rest him and he might now be out in a raging sandstorm. And then finish your ride, stable your mount, done.

With a big tent, you'd not solve anything that consideration for the game world won't solve. All it'll do is let you ride your mount to exhaustion and rest your mount for half the time it would normally take if he was exhausted without a tent. And that issue is already solved by not letting your mount get that tired in the first place.

[JackGibbons]

Jack I think what you're missing here is this:

You can ride your mount til he's just gone from "winded" to "tired," and look for a place to rest him. Rest him for 10-15 minutes.
Finish your ride, stable your mount, done.

or

You can ride your mount til he's "very tired" or "exhausted," rest him for close to 1/2 hour, if not longer since he's too tired for you to seek a suitable place to rest him and he might now be out in a raging sandstorm. And then finish your ride, stable your mount, done.

With a big tent, you'd not solve anything that consideration for the game world won't solve. All it'll do is let you ride your mount to exhaustion and rest your mount for half the time it would normally take if he was exhausted without a tent. And that issue is already solved by not letting your mount get that tired in the first place.

Yeah, that's a useful tip, and as a perpetual newbie I'm going to make use of it. I didn't think about the lower tired levels meaning you ran it so hard it will take longer to recover. Thank you for that. What I'm saying is since shade helps mounts recover faster, it makes sense to seek out shaded areas once you know where they are on your route. Or, to make your own shade. For mundanes, that raises the question of 'can I shade my mount with some portable device'. My point is that this isn't automatically an unreasonable question or goal. Even if there's already some other way to avoid spending a boatload of time waiting for your mount to recover by using your method or by knowing all the shady spots, an intelligent character could still note the effects of shade and think about how they might go about making some themselves. Something three-sided, for example, could provide a shaded spot for a nestled down ('rest' state) mount that, also turned towards the wind (this would be assumed virtually) would also provide some protection against weather-based penalties to recovery. My point is that people assuming this means "lol absurdly unrealistic inix thunderdome" are engaging in a straw man. Then I suggested that since this is a legitimate thing for an IC character to think about, that their best pursuit avenue might be to find an IC master-craft-capable tentmaker, who can then work with staff on whether some sort of device could be made and what weight and cost to assign it. It should be realistically weighted. The MC tentmaker can communicate a stones estimate to the customer, and they can decide if it's worth it. If people can figure out a way to make it work (pack inix for tent gear that doesn't get as tired as it has no other load, riding beetle that rests in the shade), more power to them. Finally, I concluded with some remarks about why it might not be possible to code it, since it may have to be an 'enter'able room, and while realistically you could very much make, say, a tent a shaggy ox can get in (it doesn't take up more room than the 2-3 people who can already get into a regular tent, right?), there may not be a way to prevent certain size mounts from entering (since that same tent could very much not hold an inix), because the code for 'can a mount go into this room?' may be simple yes/no instead of 'well what size is the mount?'.

The method you explained is muuuuuch simpler, so it would behoove people to just try that if they don't want to go through all the rigmarole of the MC process just to quite possibly hear "not feasible." But if they do, "good luck to them! Enjoy the RP" is my point, instead of "you must be an idiot for thinking anything like this could possibly work because obviously you meant the most absurd case version I can think of" which is the attitude I was gleaning (perhaps incorrectly) from a number of responses here.

[valeria]

Have you guys never carried around one of those big-ass canopies to the beach? They are not that heavy, they are huge.

They are also not made from bone, leather cords, and natural fibers.

I'm not necessarily 100% opposed to having a giant tent you can build over your inix.  But unless they're heavy, expensive, and take a lot more time to put up than "make tent," I would be opposed.

[Asmoth]

I still maintain we should at the very least have a way to make a room shaded code wise.

I mean an umbrella or parasol is already in the game, why not just a grander scale??

[Fujikoma]

I still maintain we should at the very least have a way to make a room shaded code wise.

I mean an umbrella or parasol is already in the game, why not just a grander scale??

Magick.

[Lizzie]

I still maintain we should at the very least have a way to make a room shaded code wise.

I mean an umbrella or parasol is already in the game, why not just a grander scale??

There is a way to make a room shaded code-wise. It involves risking your soul, or your virility, or your children, or [insert myth/legend/tall tale/rumor here].

Once again - reward and risk. These things are already possible. You just have to decide whether or not to choose to make use of them.

[Asanadas]

Oh boy I sure wish that there were mundane means to capture fractions of magickal utility. E.g. a lean-to.

[Malken]

Oh boy I sure wish that there were mundane means to capture fractions of magickal utility. E.g. a lean-to.

Remember that elves are still too idiotic to realize the potential that riding would offer their culture.

A portable shade-making device?

DON'T BE CRAZY SON

[Nergal]

I'm not sure why this is a huge issue. Tentmaking is an eligible craft to master and perform mastercrafts for. You could make it yourself or commission it in-game. The reason they probably don't exist yet is their impracticality - an umbrella designed to shade a large area would be large and heavy, let alone a large tent or lean-to. But you're welcome to try.

[Asmoth]

I'm not sure why this is a huge issue. Tentmaking is an eligible craft to master and perform mastercrafts for. You could make it yourself or commission it in-game. The reason they probably don't exist yet is their impracticality - an umbrella designed to shade a large area would be large and heavy, let alone a large tent or lean-to. But you're welcome to try.

Then I gotta deal with Kuraci's and when you're dealing with Kuraci, why would you spend a fortune on a tent when there is whores and slice and whores....

But seriously, I would be and might actually try to commission something like this.

[JackGibbons]

I'm not sure why this is a huge issue. Tentmaking is an eligible craft to master and perform mastercrafts for. You could make it yourself or commission it in-game. The reason they probably don't exist yet is their impracticality - an umbrella designed to shade a large area would be large and heavy, let alone a large tent or lean-to. But you're welcome to try.

I'm not sure I understand why it's a big deal, either. It seems to come down to:

1) But anything Inix can be sheltered by would be absurdly heavy (who said it had to be be inix-sized?)
2) But there's already a way to help your animals recover faster (okay, great. So why is exploring an alternative wrong? Everyone who knows the other way can keep doing it that way)
3) Uphill both ways !!!!

[whitt]

1) But anything Inix can be sheltered by would be absurdly heavy (who said it had to be be inix-sized?)
2) But there's already a way to help your animals recover faster (okay, great. So why is exploring an alternative wrong? Everyone who knows the other way can keep doing it that way)
3) Uphill both ways !!!!

1) If it is not assumed to be inix-sized, the code also needs to check the size of the mount before allowing a mount to gain benefit from the shelter.  This (probably) requires additional coding.  Hence the use of this larger-sized mount as a point of discussion.
2) Not wrong, just possibly impractical.
3) Not the way the world is described as functioning.  Slow and cautious exploration, in gradually expanding spheres as one locates a "safe" spot to rest one's mount seems more in keeping with the tone of a harsh and unforgiving landscape.  Or if you prefer this view would be opposed to "But I wanna!" *stomps foot*

[Delirium]

I do like the idea of setting up a "lean to" object that shades the room, rather than makes it an indoor area.

It could also lower the storm severity by one level, perhaps.

That, I could totally get behind.

[JackGibbons]

Yeah, those are good points, Whitt. I think I mentioned something similar in my earlier post. Delerium et al's idea about an object to set the 'shadow' property for the room may be more feasible than to make a room enterable like a tent try to filter out mounts based on size cut-offs, if those don't already exist in code.

[Asanadas]

The idea of setting up a "storm stopper" like Delirium said would be excellent. How many nights has a clan spent staring at swirling sand for 20 minutes because of being caught out in the night?

If it were possible to lower the "weather" value in a tile from an object set up as a sort of wind-breaker, that would allow for more night time camp RP. And it might give people reason to set campfires out there.

[Vwest]

I understand all these points but will trump them by saying that when I played with the byn in a time of TONS of bynners, we once had about ten grown ass big Zalanthas men in a tent.

... and then?

But really, you can already travel the entire length of the Known World in a single day, with a single long rest for a beetle or two medium rests with an inix. This can be a blessing when you get home late and need to be somewhere in a hurry, but can get a little silly when people leave Allanak at dawn and hit Morins by early morning because they macro swapped in Luirs or something.

Personally, I think it's already kind of silly we can load 10+inix into a wagon described as being rather compact as it is.

And it's even more hilarious when certain people pilot their COLOSSAL argosy through the forest, impervious to terrain and...

You know what? Fuck it. Let's let mounts hang out in the tent with us.