Priorities as a community

[Armaddict]

Oh. Heh. I'm sorry.

I think the 'I understand the sentiment' statement made it seem to respond directly to you.

I meant it to refer to the sentiment that we always needed to be moving into a newbie friendly direction, which I do think is false in -most- cases (not all).

[John]

Is it taken for granted that everything does need to be reformed rather than added to? Any links to threads where this is expanded upon? It all looks good to me. Some additions would be nice (automate skill gains/extended subguilds) but I wasn't aware massive reforms were needed.

Priority as a community right now is Southern clay pits.

This is an addition instead of a reform though, right? Maybe I'm just getting hung up on the word reform. I'm going to assume I'm being particularly finnicky and just go with changes (which can include additions or revamps of current systems).

In which case I'd go with extended subguilds and skill bumps being automated. But it's easy to say "more code" or "more stuff" but in reality coders are limited (don't we have 2 coders in total? Although I believe scripts can be done with anyone with the knowledge) so there's always going to be a bottle neck. Rather than wanting more code or more stuff, I'd say a realistic expectation is more craftables. This won't necessarily involve more items, but it will involve more of the existing items being craftable.

An economy for example, doesn't work without being driven by consumption. In Armageddon, there is only two forms of consumption that is common to every player. That is hunger and thirst. However, it's fairly trivial to completely negate all possible expenditures related to staying fed and watered by joining a clan

I thought no-one ever joined clans though, right? Wasn't everyone going the indie route because there was no profit in clans? So what do all of these indie people do regarding food and water? Or has the tide turned and now everyone joins clans?

*Re-evaluate the Allanak tavern situation.  I still feel like there are enough characters in the social strata between Bynners and nobles that Allanak needs 3 public taverns.

There's that noble-only "tavern". Do people use that? If not, why not and how would adding a third tavern change things?

When I started no-one ever used "Red's" and it was always Trader's Inn or the Gaj. "Red's" would go through popular phases because one or two long lived PCs would make it their hang out, but other than that it was the red headed stepchild. Unless you wanted mudsex that is

I don't like the idea of merging all the temples, but a common area where it is clearly OK to practice magick would be interesting.  Finish fixing the "thrice the height of three half-giants" wall descriptions.

I think this comes down to Player (and possibly Staff) expectations being X while the virtual world says Y. There is an area where people in the magickers quarter do have fire breathing and float balls (and one echo in this area involves someone casting a particularly potent "spell". I can clarify for staff if they don't know what I'm eluding to). These aren't coded spells, but they are magick. So I would argue that the world itself tells us magick can be cast in that area. Whether or not PC templars or staff agree with that assertion is another matter. But the world itself tells us that it's okay.

This post isn't to say we shouldn't discuss what we want changed. I'm simply saying that some things don't need staff intervention at all, others might need staff intervention to set expectations while others might not need as much work as they initially think. Ultimately I'm sure staff are aware of a lot of this and have put it in a priority queue to attend to. But as someone whose worked in helpdesk for quite a few years, I know adding more things to the queue doesn't necessarily get anything done faster

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Lots of good ideas here. There were a few I want to respond to.

GDB Redesign
So, I am a web developer and the GDB is practically a human rights violation. It's implemented with a series of nested table layouts, which is the web equivalent of building a pre-school with asbestos and lead paint. If this were a federal website, you would be have received a class action lawsuit by now. Also it at least needs an outer bounding box instead of 100% width. I have to shrink the window every time I want to read something. I'm sure this was an out of box solution and not something the staff coded themselves, but you guys should seriously consider an upgrade.

Crimcode Revamp
I don't presume to know that there needs to be a switch for shutting down crimcode, but there are some things I would like to see pealed back a bit if possible. It never felt right to me that, in this setting, guards would be perfectly cool with a fistfight breaking out in the tavern, but not a kick being thrown. And it always feels like such a forced scene when you have two people sitting in a bar laying out blatant death threats to one another, yet neither of them will do anything to one another because they're safe in the knowledge that they cant kill each other because of the crimcode, and they can't brawl each other because one of them is sitting... It would be cool if crimcode were pealed back to only be effective within line of sight of a guard (1 screen at night, 3 screens during the day). What would also be cool is a bribe command. Bribe a guard standing somewhere and he'll walk one screen away for every 100 coins you give him. Bribe a guard subduing you X amount for Y crime and he'll let you go. Feels in line with the setting to me. "Bribe soldier 300 leave", "Bribe soldier 500 release"


Economy - This is my #1
So what I think would come as the largest benefit would be to improve the economy. I think the economy is good for players < 5 days played. After that, there's nothing to spend money on. (This probably varies depending on what your role is. I'm generally an indie, so I make money pretty easily. It's a little harder to make coins in clans if you're playing right but that's beside the point. As it stands you mostly just need enough coins to get the gear you want with your character, and after that the only thing you have to spend money on is an apartment if you're a mudsexer, or food and water if you're an unclanned tavern sitter. Obsidian is so plentiful that it's almost useless to try bribing PCs. (I mean, you can, but you're only going to succeed if they're already conducive to what you're selling. Your coin isn't going to change minds or loyalties. Ever.)

Personally I would love to see at least some part of this be regulated by steeper item degradation. Weapons wear out like armor currently does (rather than just randomly breaking), and armor degrades faster and costs more to repair. Eventually things are just beyond repair and need replaced. It doesn't change the economy much for short-lived characters, but if you want to run around with a horror shell breastplate, and and a gem-encrusted sword you're going to need to reinvest in heavily in those items, making them a constaint resource drain, and thus available mainly status items -- not things you see Privates and Troopers wearing around at the Gaj. There was a whole nother thread going in the last year or two about this, so I won't expound it further here. You can read my full thoughts there.

Last time I was in a clan, there were rules against selling any of the stuff you hunted.  Basically everything you put in your bag belonged to the House, until your boss told you otherwise.

And congressman are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents. If leader PCs aren't cracking down, House hunters can make serious bank. I remember a couple years ago, one of my characters found himself in the apartment of a Salarri hunter (might have even been the First or Second Hunter.) I couldn't believe myself because, looking around this character had easily 10,000 coins worth of high end gear, clothes, and jewelry laying around. What's more boggling is, at that time, the main crafter of the house was paying the Byn to bring him scrab shells. If I were a Salarri leader PC I would've cut this chicks hands off and fired her. Of course, I'm kind of a dick though.
TLDR; Salarri hunter cannot best a scrab, has 10,000k worth of gear. >.<

[Eyeball]

Personally I would love to see at least some part of this be regulated by steeper item degradation. Weapons wear out like armor currently does (rather than just randomly breaking), and armor degrades faster and costs more to repair. Eventually things are just beyond welry

So as well as grinding to get somewhere, grinding just to stay where you are.

[MeTekillot]

Yeah, I like the thought of bone, glue, and sinew wearing down rather than subject to random shattering.

[Eyeball]

rather than subject to random shattering.

Which almost never happens.

[MeTekillot]

Yeah, exactly. I'm swinging a piece of sharpened bone or a bit of knapped glass at a dude. It shouldn't be nigh indestructible.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Woah there Eyeball Romney, I'm not talking about taxing success. I'm talking about a system that I think could give the game economy a more realistic feel, and potentially even stimulate more sales. As it stands it's easy enough to accrue enough resources (money, allies, etc.) that by 20-30 days played your mid-ranking hunter has nothing better to do with his money than try to outbid junior nobility at GMH auctions. As far as weapon degradation - they should degrade faster than armor, realistically, instead of not at all. You take a steel longsword into battle and by the end of the fight it will have eighth inch nicks up and down the blade and might be too bent to fit back into a sheath. Steal is hard to resist dings, and flexible to bend without breaking. The materials our characters use are not. A stone-tipped spear shouldn't hold together through the course of 3 fights, let alone 3,000. I'm just proposing you need to drop another 100-200 sid to replace your weapons every hundred hours or so of hunting.

[Eyeball]

Woah there Eyeball Romney, I'm not talking about taxing success. I'm talking about a system that I think could give the game economy a more realistic feel, and potentially even stimulate more sales. As it stands it's easy enough to accrue enough resources (money, allies, etc.) that by 20-30 days played your mid-ranking hunter has nothing better to do with his money than try to outbid junior nobility at GMH auctions. As far as weapon degradation - they should degrade faster than armor, realistically, instead of not at all. You take a steel longsword into battle and by the end of the fight it will have eighth inch nicks up and down the blade and might be too bent to fit back into a sheath. Steal is hard to resist dings, and flexible to bend without breaking. The materials our characters use are not. A stone-tipped spear shouldn't hold together through the course of 3 fights, let alone 3,000. I'm just proposing you need to drop another 100-200 sid to replace your weapons every hundred hours or so of hunting.

We could give the game a more realistic feel by requiring everyone to take periodic dumps too, but it wouldn't make the game better.

I'd rather have something new and positive to spend money on, instead of having to spend time running just to stay in place.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree with armor taking a tad more damage faster, and even more with weapons wearing down. But clothing items need to wear out too, ideally with a counter based on outdoor rooms traversed. Food needs to give you minor bonus based on quality, as well.

[MeTekillot]

Eating uncooked food should make you sick, imo.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Absolutely agree ... well, in particular, uncooked meat. However, it should at the very least impose a slight stat decrease, either via the attributes or the numbered stats such as hp.

[Barzalene]

Woah there Eyeball Romney, I'm not talking about taxing success. I'm talking about a system that I think could give the game economy a more realistic feel, and potentially even stimulate more sales. As it stands it's easy enough to accrue enough resources (money, allies, etc.) that by 20-30 days played your mid-ranking hunter has nothing better to do with his money than try to outbid junior nobility at GMH auctions. As far as weapon degradation - they should degrade faster than armor, realistically, instead of not at all. You take a steel longsword into battle and by the end of the fight it will have eighth inch nicks up and down the blade and might be too bent to fit back into a sheath. Steal is hard to resist dings, and flexible to bend without breaking. The materials our characters use are not. A stone-tipped spear shouldn't hold together through the course of 3 fights, let alone 3,000. I'm just proposing you need to drop another 100-200 sid to replace your weapons every hundred hours or so of hunting.

We could give the game a more realistic feel by requiring everyone to take periodic dumps too, but it wouldn't make the game better.

I'd rather have something new and positive to spend money on, instead of having to spend time running just to stay in place.

I hear what you're saying, but I think I disagree. I think things are in game are really good. My characters are well fed and happy. There's lots of stuff to have. And all of that is good. But I don't know that lots of good is good for the game. I think we want a little more harsh. I think we need negative things to spend money on. And the nice thing about stuff wearing out (it doesn't have to wear out fast) is that it targets the right set. Not the new character who needs stuff, but the characters who already have stuff.

[X-D]

First off, Why?

We eat almost every Fruit, Veg, grain uncooked IRL without getting sick.

And Many of us eat plenty of uncooked meat without getting sick...And Zalanthan people are supposed to be tougher, Not to mention the non-humans, at least 3 of which are MUCH tougher then humans.


Meh, silliness.

[Quell]

First off, Why?

For the same reason we need coded menstrual cramps, duh.

[Kismetic]

My only comment will be:   I think the economy needs fixin', and the stratification between noble and rich indie merchant should be miles wide.  Hell, the divide between GMH playboy and Suzie the tailor should be miles wide.  However you have to do it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Oh hell. Here we go again. You know perfectly well that ... ok, fine, but you really don't think we should cook the meat from a spider? I don't care about forcing you to cook it, or everything that isn't poisoned, but well prepared meals giving you comfort hp, stun, or even echos about good aftertaste would bring cooking alive as an occupation and another thing to spend bucks on, as well as being another great thing about clans which provide you grub.

But no, X, no, you don't have to cook it. Gah.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

And Many of us eat plenty of uncooked meat without getting sick...

While I agree with you that Zalanthans are tougher than Earthians, I still don't think either of us are able to eat an entire haunch of uncooked meat with no repercussions. I don't think we should add terradin code to uncooked steak, but I wouldn't mind if it were a kind of nauseant represented by a minor endurance debuff. Not fatal, not a major hinderence, just not completely ignorable. The only thing I would add to this was that anyone at any level of hte cooking skill should be able to at least try to cook any type of meat. Last time I checked there were a few types of meat which had no cook recipes, and I would personally emote cooking and then eat raw.

I also like the idea of implementing certain kinds of nutrition, since many poor Zalanthans make due on a single food source. Rinthi's eat rat-kebobs with no bread or fruit. Red Stormers eat travel cakes, but not a lot of meat. People in the south in general don't eat too much fruit. It would be neat to see the kinds of food you eat tied to your stats in some way. Not in an immediate sense, but more like if you haven't eaten meat in the last few days played, you might start getting warning messages related to it that, if ignored, would lead to a slight strength debuff to represent emaciation. If you eat only meat, maybe you need some more fruits, vegies, grains, whatever to get the nutrients you're missing. It would really help to drive home the disparaging difference between poor indies and the house employees with full larders at their disposal.

My only comment will be:   I think the economy needs fixin', and the stratification between noble and rich indie merchant should be miles wide.  Hell, the divide between GMH playboy and Suzie the tailor should be miles wide.  However you have to do it.

Yup, that's exactly what I'm trying to drive home with my proposals. Anyone can save up the sid for an expensive one time purchase currently, but if there were maintenance on those hella expensive items, they would be less popular amongst people who should have less resources available. But as the game stands now, a decent ranger can rake in more sid than a Junior noble's allowance. Easily. So we have no concept of this amongst the player base.

[aeglaeca]

Here is my Arm wishlist:

* Skill trees as opposed to preset guilds, allowing for more flexibility in character creation.

* Anyone can learn one crafting trade outside their skill tree to journeyman. Those who can craft will probably greb less.

* Everything is craftable. I know the warehouses are a targeted solution, but IMO this would be better.

* Public crafting lists. Maybe just for up to journeyman level crafts.

* Mastercraft booze. Speaks for itself.

* Outfit code of some sort. There would probably be more of a market for clothes if changing out of armor wasn't such a pain in the ass. Yes, I know you can alias these things, but an in game solution would be better. Arm is an RP game, not a game you should have to script for.

* And on the backend note: color and more than a 35 char limit to sdescs.

* Wisdom modifier for following into holes, or fall damage revamped to just knock you out. I would rather die to the gith swarming the bottom of a hole than the hole itself.

* More dangerous mobs on commonly traveled routes to encourage having an escort or traveling in numbers. The last time I checked, the gith in the Red were practically extinct from overhunting.

I'm pretty meh on the idea of nutrition. I'd rather see more coded diseases and stuff for physicians to do than people having to worry about the food pyramid.

[bcw81]

Rinthi's eat rat-kebobs with no bread or fruit.

Pretty sure they're rat kebabs, not kabobs. If memory serves the description has them encased in bread.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00928/kebab-682_928902a.jpg

Now back from the derail.

[Lizzie]

1. More "things that matter"-type plotlines that don't require you to be in a clan to get involved in, that also don't require you to ask someone in a clan to learn about, that also don't require you to ask someone "who knows and ain't telling" to learn about. If that means more Lord of Storms and Plainsman stuff, then sure, more of that. If it means Copper Wars Part Deux, then sure. If it means Mantis Sacking Luir's IV then I'm up for it. Just something that can involve anyone and everyone, that isn't some big deal subtlety secret that everyone knows about OOCly but has to ICly pretend to be oblivious. I'm FINE with the staff animating "important" people. Influential people, significant people. I'm also fine with high-karma players playing overpowered sorcerers, because they create plotlines that everyone can get in on. Make a new end of the world plotline, that doesn't actually end the world but knocks a chunk out of it (and maybe reveals a secret passage to something beyond the Known, thus expanding the Known while destroying part of it all at the same time).

2. NPC merchants need to be fixed in a way that doesn't result in "he who makes it right after game reboot wins - everyone else loses."

That's it. I'm okay with pretty much everything else.

[Aruven]

Economy reform    - 25 (39.7%) ----> Alright. Almost 40%. That' a pretty significant chunk of change.



Code related reforms (combat maybe?) - 19 (30.2%) ----> Nice. 30%. That fills my pie with two big tasks already.


GDB reforms    - 2 (3.2%) ---> Sorry you two.

Clan related reforms (Docs? maybe)    - 8 (12.7%) ---> Maybe one day!

Others?    - 9 (14.3%)

---------

I have absolutely no say whatsoever in anything, or in how this information was used.
It does look like there are two clear areas of interest. Others had some good stuff too.

[Clearsighted]

And congressman are supposed to represent the interests of their constituents. If leader PCs aren't cracking down, House hunters can make serious bank. I remember a couple years ago, one of my characters found himself in the apartment of a Salarri hunter (might have even been the First or Second Hunter.) I couldn't believe myself because, looking around this character had easily 10,000 coins worth of high end gear, clothes, and jewelry laying around. What's more boggling is, at that time, the main crafter of the house was paying the Byn to bring him scrab shells. If I were a Salarri leader PC I would've cut this chicks hands off and fired her. Of course, I'm kind of a dick though.
TLDR; Salarri hunter cannot best a scrab, has 10,000k worth of gear. >.<

There's a good reason why GMH hunters are so often blinged out. Pretty much every GMH is bursting at the seams, such that there is very little need for many items and no place to put them. There is the exception for a few random materials at any given time, but generally, it makes better sense to sell. GMH hunters tend to have very cozy setups with virtually zero living expenses that aren't provided by the clan (water, food, stabling, arrows, bandages, etc).

Even at a conservative estimate, the average GMH hunter is going to save about 40-80 sids a day in stabling costs, and a ~60-80 sids in food/water, and that's without touching the rest (gear laying around, arrows, bandages, sold stuff). It adds up over time. A semi-active GMH hunter pretty much benefits in covered expenses each session, as much as their monthly salary is worth (~150 sids), at a minimum.

GMH hunters are probably the solid upper middle class of the game.

[Revenant]

I once met a girl whose diet consisted entirely of raw meat and green vegetables. Bit skinny, but energetic, intelligent, was more than ten years ago, gave me a long reading list after we spent a whole day talking, and never saw her again.

Point being, you can eat raw meat without getting sick. I have done this, several times (a couple times I didn't even know until afterwards, whoops). You just have to trust the source of your meat (and it can't be pork or chicken). The worst things you can get sick with from beef CANNOT be cooked out of it, look it up, prions, mad cow disease.

[solera]

Some peeps eat raw 'tok meat though.