Gemmed Temples Idea

[MeTekillot]

I feel like with certain Elements it's like a "WESTSIDE! *gun shots*" sort of deal and with others they're more like "Watch where you walking mano. Fuck outta here." sort of thing.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

One thing I think is important is to create a culture for gemmers, honestly, much like the rinth. I don't know how many people are currently playing gemmers, but I think having a Gemmers only bar ... well, a bar in the Gemmed Quarter which because of social stigma was a Gemmed only bar, would do well for this. I know there used to be a square there ... it's been a while since I played a mage though.

[nauta]

One thing I think is important is to create a culture for gemmers, honestly, much like the rinth. I don't know how many people are currently playing gemmers, but I think having a Gemmers only bar ... well, a bar in the Gemmed Quarter which because of social stigma was a Gemmed only bar, would do well for this. I know there used to be a square there ... it's been a while since I played a mage though.

There's the Den - it functions that way, although gemmed see wayyyy too much of each other anyway.  Something to motivate intrinsic conflict (like east/westside) would be neat ... but what would be even more neat would be a way to get involved in extrinsic plots.

[Eyeball]

Gemmed basically have no purpose in the game. Templars might drag them out when some RPT-level shit is going down, but no RPT really needs them nor can really be set up with them in mind. The entire gemmed population could disappear and the rest of the world would barely notice.

[BadSkeelz]

I'd argue the opposite. Gemmed can do everything a mundane can do better... which makes it difficult to choose the slower, riskier, more mundane option over the quick easy magickal one.

[Lizzie]

I'll say neither of the above two posts are entirely accurate. The current status of the gemmed "situation" is IC, but it exists, it's interesting, except on the days when it's boring. It's dynamic, it has its ups and downs.

In order to express WHY the above two posts are not entirely accurate, I'd have to get into actual examples, which is against the rules and would also give away plotz.

[nauta]

I'll say neither of the above two posts are entirely accurate. The current status of the gemmed "situation" is IC, but it exists, it's interesting, except on the days when it's boring. It's dynamic, it has its ups and downs.

It might be useful to distinguish between excluding gemmed as an IC thing, and excluding them from plots.  I'm fine with the former, but as a matter of playability, the latter makes things rather uninteresting.  It also matters which element you are.

As far as I can tell, unless you are one of the two elements that get asked to do things, the gemmed don't have very clear access (if any at all) to plots (except Oash/Templarate RPTs), and many avenues for plots are closed to them.  So I'd agree with Eyeball. However, this might have to do with what Badskillz says: there are playability concerns if you include a gemmed in your plot.

[Lizzie]

I'll say neither of the above two posts are entirely accurate. The current status of the gemmed "situation" is IC, but it exists, it's interesting, except on the days when it's boring. It's dynamic, it has its ups and downs.

It might be useful to distinguish between excluding gemmed as an IC thing, and excluding them from plots.  I'm fine with the former, but as a matter of playability, the latter makes things rather uninteresting.  It also matters which element you are.

As far as I can tell, unless you are one of the two elements that get asked to do things, the gemmed don't have very clear access (if any at all) to plots (except Oash/Templarate RPTs), and many avenues for plots are closed to them.  So I'd agree with Eyeball. However, this might have to do with what Badskillz says: there are playability concerns if you include a gemmed in your plot.

Now, you are moving your goalpost, and narrowing down the criteria, which is getting into IC info. Regardless, the point stands. Just because the plots YOU know about might only involve the criteria you're posting about, doesn't mean no other plots exist that might or might not involve other criteria. Again - anything more is IC info.

[Bast]

I'm in favor of anything that puts players together personally and ANYTHING that makes RPT's easier to organize. Honestly I haven't played a gemmed mage in 4+ years because I seriously dislike the limiting options for employment and RP. Nak -to me- has slowly felt more and more like Tuluk in regards to the magicker hate. I feel a lot of it oocly driven by the mage haters as well. I understand this opinion isn't shared by everyone.

[Eyeball]

I'd argue the opposite. Gemmed can do everything a mundane can do better... which makes it difficult to choose the slower, riskier, more mundane option over the quick easy magickal one.

If all you want to do is rattle around the world on your own, sure.

[Kismetic]

I feel a lot of it oocly driven by the mage haters as well.

I'm not a big fan of magick in this game, I like the low magick feel to this desert apocalypse world.  But I've played characters who deal with magick just fine, I even played a Tuluki Templar who didn't flinch at using magickers on the sly (as long as he could control them reasonably).

If my PC hates magick, it's because they're the status quo--  an elf hating, breed kicking, gicker fearing, rinthi sneering son of a gun.  I mean, at least I think that's the status quo when I read the docs.

[Rokal]

I feel a lot of it oocly driven by the mage haters as well.

I'm not a big fan of magick in this game, I like the low magick feel to this desert apocalypse world.  But I've played characters who deal with magick just fine, I even played a Tuluki Templar who didn't flinch at using magickers on the sly (as long as he could control them reasonably).

If my PC hates magick, it's because they're the status quo--  an elf hating, breed kicking, gicker fearing, rinthi sneering son of a gun.  I mean, at least I think that's the status quo when I read the docs.

Truly, I think that people potray the hate far more then they potray the -fear-. People should be -scared- of the gickers, in my experience i've seen so many people ready to gear up to hunt down that rogue gick. Milltia members or legion members aside (When tuluk was open) Why would any mundane even think of wanting to risk themselves dealing with a gicker?

its a common misconception, but fear is NOT hatred.

[Pale Horse]

Alas, as much many of the ideas shared in this thread are what I would personally prefer to see IG, there have been numerous occasions where Staff has said that their implementation will not happen.

This isn't to say that changes may not be implemented where the Gemmed are concerned, just that the ideas presented here are not the sort of change that will be.

[wizturbo]

Truly, I think that people potray the hate far more then they potray the -fear-. People should be -scared- of the gickers, in my experience i've seen so many people ready to gear up to hunt down that rogue gick. Milltia members or legion members aside (When tuluk was open) Why would any mundane even think of wanting to risk themselves dealing with a gicker?

its a common misconception, but fear is NOT hatred.

Totally agree.  Maybe there just haven't been enough scary magickers lately (as in their personality, not their coded capability).

[Rokal]

Truly, I think that people potray the hate far more then they potray the -fear-. People should be -scared- of the gickers, in my experience i've seen so many people ready to gear up to hunt down that rogue gick. Milltia members or legion members aside (When tuluk was open) Why would any mundane even think of wanting to risk themselves dealing with a gicker?

its a common misconception, but fear is NOT hatred.

Totally agree.  Maybe there just haven't been enough scary magickers lately (as in their personality, not their coded capability).

I actually do not think it is that.

I've noticed the game comprises of mostly veterans - its an old, old game. often times, RP games thrive from the 'new' blood, the newbies coming and stiring up the pot from their inexperience, eyes wide and full of enthusiasm to explore. I don't think we have enough newbies coming in to truly stir the huge pot up that is armageddon. (Sadly)

Many of the vets have experienced magic in one way or another, and have had their fill of it over their years that they aren't scared of it anymore - im a newbie, through and through, and every time I get an encounter with magic in it, im at the edge of my seat out of both -fear- and -excitement-

Veteran's don't get to experience that anymore, usually. Thus the IC fear factor isn't as intensified, which is not surprising, its a hard thing to overcome.

Cast aside your OOC experience, veterans! put your shoes in the inexperienced noob that your character is (or may not be ) to the fullest.

Just what I think, anyway. it could be a mixture of wiz's thoughts and my own, or a variation there of.

[Kismetic]

My character fears magick, and never had to be told to.  Maybe you should clean your room.

Edit:  I'm just joking!  I've totally been having a lazy Sunday on the GDB.

[Lizzie]

The hyperbole is strong but really it's just glurge. Be the change again and again and again. You know I'd love to. But one of my last characters, another long-lived one (several RL months) had ZERO interactions with magickers. And she was a city girl. How can you express fear of something you've never been exposed to? I mean, you can say "Oh scary story, I shall have bad dreams for a week after hearing that!" so many times before you think - well if it's so bad out there, how come I haven't EVER actually seen it? Eventually people grow up and realize that Santa Claus is daddy, and the Tooth Fairy is mom, and the boogie man in the closet doesn't exist. Literacy has nothing to do with it - people who can't read still do become adults capable of discerning reality from myth.

If you don't ever see magicks, you have nothing to connect your fear with. You become disconnected from that whole aspect of roleplay.

So don't blame the newbies, OR the veterans, OR the magickers. I blame it on happenstance in some cases. Lack of exposure = lack of care. What you don't see, can't hurt you. It's a common mentality and in Armageddon it might not be true, but it's still a common mentality.

I think back just before the Copper Wars, during the "end game" days when sorcs and rogue mages and all kinds of freaky reaches and other things were going on in the game, is what gave people the *display* of something worth being afraid of. They SHOWED people "this is what we can do. Now you have a solid foundation for your fear." You haven't seen much of that at all in the past few years, and not really at all in the past year. The most visible, public, fear-worthy display was when the thing happened in the Gaj and it was very quickly cut down and destroyed, thus proving once again that people have nothing to fear from it (because the templars can stop it JUST THAT EASILY).

What most people didn't see, was all the freaky stuff that led up to it. The part of all that, that would have had these characters pissing their pants if they had actually seen what was going on behind the scenes.

I'm not saying that demonstrations need to be held for the public. In fact - I'm seeing a lot of demonstrations to show that it is NOT as scary as it should be. We need to pull back on the sharing of information, both ICly and OOCly - pull back on the "instructional" aspect of magicks, and re-emphasize the scary RPed part of it. Yes, when you cast this spell, this happens, and you can defend against it with that spell, and you have to wait x minutes before you can cast it again, and yhou must use six of these, and one of those, and blah blah blah. Stop doing all of that. Especially in public places. Instead - save it for when you can find a reason to actually use it against someone - and then use the shit out of it.

[Beethoven]

Totally agree.  Maybe there just haven't been enough scary magickers lately (as in their personality, not their coded capability).

Disagree. I do not think it is supposed to be the personality of the magicker that is terrifying to those around them, but what they wield. They're supposed to be people, good and bad, grebbers and drunks, shy people, confident people, bloodthirsty people, humans and breeds and stumps, people dealing with being branded "abomination" in one way or another. It's not the way they go around swaggering that should make them scary. It's society's knowledge of what's inside them.

Sure, some more obviously and publicly "volatile" type gemmed personalities might help encourage and remind mundane players that hey, the gemmed are supposed to be frightening. Hey, I'd be fine with some more eerie cantrips sprinkled in every now and then. Really, though, the responsibility lies on the mundane players to play out that side of the docs, in my opinion. If a gemmed chooses to have an EXTRA-SCARY-DANGEROUS personality, that should just be icing on the terrifying cake.

[Delirium]

I'd love to see more cantrips in general that are minor, uncomfortable, and provoke a negative reaction to the gemmed.

A vivaduan trying to be friendly and shake someone's hand, but their palm is clammy and wet.

A drovian just looking over at someone but their eyes go pitch black for a second.

Leaving faint burn-marks on a mug when a Krathi sets it down.

Etc.

The point being that while you can roleplay a gemmed trying to be a normal person, you as the player should OOCly reinforce that they're not.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wish Magick actually harmed non-magickers randomly and without warning. Like, a Gemmed sitting near you could actually lower your endurance. And then you had to see a Magicker in order to be cured. Or shaking a Krathi's hand could actually char your rings and gloves.

Yes, I know that's work for the coders but things like that would make mages actual, unintentional menaces. I know we're supposed to pretend mages can curse you and make you not have children, etc, but ... why? I want coded proof, or, I want people to get over Magicker fear.

Elven racism has roots in the elven persona of needing to get over on you. Racism against giants concerns stupidity. Racism half elves has to do with polluting the human blood line.

Prejudice against mages has to do with wanting neither the healing or the free this or the free that or the better this or ... uh, the curses that nobody has actually ever linked to Magick ... I don't know.

I want Magick fear reinforced, or, I want it's social aspects changed. One or the other.

[manonfire]

Easy fix, give all magickers the cannibalism script halfings used to get.

[Lizzie]

If it became known that magicks could randomly effect other people then the people enforcing the law would either outlaw mages from the city proper and sequester them indefinitely in the elemental quarter, or they'd simply eliminate them permanently.

For the same reason that a man with a sheathed dagger doesn't just randomly pull it out and stab someone in the hand - you know, in a non-lethal way, just like you're suggesting magicks happen randomly.

No one would want to play a mage, knowing that they can't leave the quarter without risking getting arrested or autoganked for accidentally randomly affecting someone with their magicks. Magicks are still illegal outside the quarter. That includes accidental woopsie magicks and cantrips.

[Delirium]

Which is why I suggested roleplayed cantrips, not code.

Commoners are brainwashed against magick and it's natural to fear what you don't understand. That fear should not be dropped as easily as it often is, despite repeated exposure - think of magick more like working with nuclear waste, you have no idea what it's secretly doing to you, now do you? If you have good, solid reasons for coming to terms, with magic, then by all means, do so, but try to recognize and portray the strangeness of that scenario and expect - maybe even OOCly encourage - the backlash you should get.

e.g. Emote some hostile stares from people at the Gaj when you sit down and chit-chat with your magicker buddy.

[Beethoven]

I wish Magick actually harmed non-magickers randomly and without warning. Like, a Gemmed sitting near you could actually lower your endurance. And then you had to see a Magicker in order to be cured. Or shaking a Krathi's hand could actually char your rings and gloves.

Yes, I know that's work for the coders but things like that would make mages actual, unintentional menaces. I know we're supposed to pretend mages can curse you and make you not have children, etc, but ... why? I want coded proof, or, I want people to get over Magicker fear.

Elven racism has roots in the elven persona of needing to get over on you. Racism against giants concerns stupidity. Racism half elves has to do with polluting the human blood line.

Prejudice against mages has to do with wanting neither the healing or the free this or the free that or the better this or ... uh, the curses that nobody has actually ever linked to Magick ... I don't know.

I want Magick fear reinforced, or, I want it's social aspects changed. One or the other.

RL prejudices are not generally based on reason, and especially not in uneducated societies. Sometimes the grain of truth is as simple as: "those people are different, and that makes me feel uncomfortable." Magickers have alien, unnatural powers. Might there be a twinge of suppressed jealousy there, too, for some? Stir that all up with some fearful exaggerations and you get all sorts of superstitions. No, you can't prove your pox came from that 'gicker that looked at you cock-eyed last week. But where DID it come from, if not? You don't know anything about bacteria, or viruses, or medicine. You just know that there's people who can do weird shit, and your ma always told you that they make you wither up and/or break out in hives.

Yeah, if you think about this from a modern perspective, it doesn't make sense. "Where's the evidence?" But if you think about it like an uneducated medieval bumpkin, it makes perfect sense. "You can't prove that 'gicker DIDN'T cause X."

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I, the player, hate pretending to hate magickers for no real reason. I want to either really OOCly fear their presence, or include them in my play without the hatred bit.

But yes, you guys have some awesome RP tips and reasons for maintaining the Zalanthian mind set.