Let's restrict banking services

[Brytta Léofa]

A very, very simple proposal: make Nenyuk refuse to handle account balances of less than 5000 sid.  Poorer people have to carry all their money with them.

Any downside?

> withdraw 50
The banker says to you, in sirihish,
  "I'm sorry, but that would bring your balance below our minimum of 5000 obsidian. You may withdraw your entire balance if you like."
> withdraw 5049
The banker gives you 5059 coins.
> deposit 300
The banker says to you, in sirihish,
  "I'm sorry, but we require a minimum balance of 5000 obsidian."

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm for it. But it also made me wonder how many people who are like me and never really use the bank.

[QuillDipper]

I try to use it as little as possible, just because I want whoever PKs me to get that elated feeling I get when I find coin on a body.

[cnemus]

I do not really like the idea of banking only for the rich.

Banks make more money off of the throngs of poor people that utilize their services and seems to me Nenyuk would get its largest windfall from the derelict accounts of the dead (which they pay a tax to the cities on, if I understand it right). Why would they limit their profits, why would the cities care to enforce such a regulation? Extortionate fees or something to that effect to penalize poor people even further sounds more like something they would do.

From an individual perspective 5,000 may seem like a lot, but to a banker, 5,000 people each depositing 5 is the prettier picture. From a character perspective, it seems most of the poor masses live hand-to-mouth, the folks that have a small to barter with are the rich people. The only contribution to the world I would see this having is giving thieves more opportunity to steal sid, but isn't their a weight issue to consider? How much does 5,000 sid weigh?

[solera]

The only contribution to the world I would see this having is giving thieves more opportunity to steal sid, but isn't their a weight issue to consider? How much does 5,000 sid weigh?

Much too much.  One or two Large  ( I can't remember which) was too heavy for my olds and my kids.
I have always like the 'rinth for having no banks. One of my PC's converted sids into spice , because Favour was the real currency. The other used her boss as a banker.

The best thing about this idea, is that Nenyuk doesn't get it. Ginka might, but there's a chance  it will be recycled by  PC bro's.

I would  love joint accounts.

[Reiloth]

too much like RL

I have enough minimum account balances, thanks.

[MeTekillot]

No, they should just tax you if you don't have 5000 coins, just like RL :^)

[wizturbo]

5,000 sid is supposed to be a lot of money.  That's many years worth of rent at Nenyuki apartments.   That's like modern day banks saying the minimum balance you can have is $50,000.

Also, from a game play stand point, it won't achieve the results you're trying to get.  People won't start carrying around all their coins, it just means they'll hoard coins until they get 5000 so they can start using the bank.   Instead of buying stuff and moving that coin through the economy, this arbitrary requirement to hoard up to 5k first will kick in.

[flurry]

I'm not seeing the upside.

Downsides:
Encumbrance
Awkward for new players
Possibly would encourage some people to prey on newbies for OOC reasons
Disproportionately affects clanned characters
Encourages more obsession with hoarding money at the expense of role-play

[Spoon]

I think it would be better the other way around, have a limit of 5000 or even less.

Then rich people have to hire people to carry/guard their money when the travel, caravan style. I always thought the ease of hoarding money with Nenyuk only damages the game's harsh vibe.

[Barsook]

I don't dig this.

[DustMight]

I love this.
I'm in favor of limiting the bank's services in many ways including some of these ways:

1. minimum balances are interesting
2. only clan accounts
3. requiring clan membership
4. not transferring balances between cities

The upside being that there is then more free coin around for people to snatch and also it seems more in keeping
with the feel of a low-fantasy setting - if indeed that is what we have here.

If my PC must travel to another town to do business, I might hire a guard.  But if everyone knows that people travel with
large amounts of coin for business, suddenly my PC will be more inclined to hire guards, join a caravan etc.

[Voular]

Oh get out of here with this. Let us make Arm even more annoying by adding another bar for players to jump over. The banking system is fine, it is optional and non-intrusive. Having less coins just floating around in the world actually helps, and the death of a super rich character doesn't start a crazy inflation. Which I think is the real purpose with the banks. There's also to many IC reasons for the bank to never change, so this is a moot point.

[Molten Heart]

Why?  What purpose would a minimal balance serve?

[The Lonely Hunter]

I think a tax is more in line. Consider how Nenyuk makes a lot of their money.

[Lizzie]

I think a tax is more in line. Consider how Nenyuk makes a lot of their money.

I could totally get behind fees. A usage fee, to be precise. 100 sids for every 2000 coins you keep in the account, averaged over a month's time, rounded up to the nearest 2000.

So if your average bank balance is 2001 sids - then 200 sids gets withdrawn from your account monthly til that average goes back down again.

[nauta]

I know this is a hornet's nest, but I'm +1 on the OP's idea here.  

Anyway, reasons in support of Op's idea (I will almost certainly back down on each and every one of them, but just some thoughts):

1. It is -really- hard to remain poor.  Even a rinther who never leaves the rinth can amass a fortune pretty quickly and pretty easily.  It is even more crazy for hunters.  Of course, you might just say: junk your coins, or, you don't have to use the bank!  Well, sure, I guess, but boy is it tempting if it is there.  (In a way, the analogy here would be the new 'fire' ingredient for cooking: you could cook without a fire but now [or soonish] you have to.)

2. As to the IC/realism argument (to wit: why would Nenyuk do this?), there can be a lot of answers.  

(a) Historically, bankers haven't been as laissez faire capitalist as we are nowadays, but rather had hugely arbitrary/racist/elitist restrictions.  (Remember usury?)

(b)  Small accounts mean paperwork or whatever.  Whatever Nenyuk can get out of the gamble on PC deaths has to be tiny compared to what they make off the big accounts and favors for keeping those accounts safe.  [I also don't know why Nenyuk doesn't charge interest or at least a cost for its service, but, meh.]  

(c) Nenyuk is ultimately responsive to the real powers (Tek and that other guy) who can put arbitrary demands on how it banks, demands meant to keep the people under their control (just like anti-literacy).

3. Playability.  

(a) Crime. It's so annoying to mug someone and only get 12 coins, then go to their apartment, loot it, and only get another 2, if any  

(b) Worry.  When you leave coins out (at your apartment or on your person), you worry about it, you check on it, you set up clever ways to hide it.  You might even distribute it with friends, turn it into other raw goods, etc.  It just keeps things moving in a way that a bank account keeps things static.

(c) As to the making-it-harder-on-newbies argument, I don't get it.  I want the world to be hard, both virtually and codedly if possible - if I'm playing a common grebber/indy, I want to get screwed over.  If I wanted it easier, I'd get a froo-froo job in a merchant house or as an aide or whatever.  Of course, some probably want the rags to riches story (rather than rags to rags): I don't see why the suggestion would stop that, it would just make it take a little longer than 1RL week bashing scrab and selling the parts, and glasshacking to obtain.  If that.

(d) Hoarding: at least the hoard will be accessible to thieves.

Dunno, over-all it makes a lot of sense for my grebber and especially my rat to not be able to go into the bank.  (In fact, I used to think rats would get ganked for entering the bank... hehe.)

One final point: Coins are WAYYYY too heavy.  We need denominations or lighter coins.

[slvrmoontiger]

5,000 sid is supposed to be a lot of money.  That's many years worth of rent at Nenyuki apartments.   That's like modern day banks saying the minimum balance you can have is $50,000.

Also, from a game play stand point, it won't achieve the results you're trying to get.  People won't start carrying around all their coins, it just means they'll hoard coins until they get 5000 so they can start using the bank.   Instead of buying stuff and moving that coin through the economy, this arbitrary requirement to hoard up to 5k first will kick in.

This and the fact that they will probably hoard it in an apartment somewhere, because lets face it coins are HEAVY. Given the choice between carrying a quiver full of arrows on a hunter and 2,000 coins I'd go with the former and risk the coins getting stolen in my apartment. I'm not seeing an upside for the bank nor the players on this.

[Spoon]

Have balance caps for social status maybe. Hell, I'ld be happy if only nobles/templars and merchant house leaders could use Nenyuk, and the odd independent who manages to attain a high enough status. That would keep most commoners with a far more realistic amount of cash to their name (enough to get by).

[Lizzie]

Have balance caps for social status maybe. Hell, I'ld be happy if only nobles/templars and merchant house leaders could use Nenyuk, and the odd independent who manages to attain a high enough status. That would keep most commoners with a far more realistic amount of cash to their name (enough to get by).

That would make absolutely zero sense whatsoever ICly, for anyone. Especially Nenyuk. Nenyuk is a GMH. Their primary commodity is money, with real estate rental fees being secondary. There's no reason why Nenyuk would refuse to allow someone to deposit MORE money in their account. Afterall - if that person dies, Nenyuk gets to keep the whole thing.

[solera]

Afterall - if  when that person dies, Nenyuk gets to keep the whole thing.

Don't know where you got if from. 

[FantasyWriter]

Add in Minimum deposits and a handling fee for withdrawals. 
Make them both Zalanthan-level harsh.

Code Select Expand

>Deposit 200
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "Come back when you have a large, pissant."

(which means that any given PC may have up to a large in coin on them at any given time. HELLO, Pickpockets and thugs!

Code Select Expand

>withdraw 200
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "Quit wasting my time, pissant."
250 coins have been deducted from your account. (25%)

>inventory
200 Allanaki coins


Code Select Expand

>Deposit 1000
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "Thank you for you business."

>withdrawl 1000
The portly banker says to you in Southern-accented Sirihish,
   "May they bring you many more coins in return!"
1050 coins have been deducted from your account. (5%)

[Patuk]

I liked Desertman's banking idea better.

[Spoon]

Have balance caps for social status maybe. Hell, I'ld be happy if only nobles/templars and merchant house leaders could use Nenyuk, and the odd independent who manages to attain a high enough status. That would keep most commoners with a far more realistic amount of cash to their name (enough to get by).

That would make absolutely zero sense whatsoever ICly, for anyone. Especially Nenyuk. Nenyuk is a GMH. Their primary commodity is money, with real estate rental fees being secondary. There's no reason why Nenyuk would refuse to allow someone to deposit MORE money in their account. Afterall - if that person dies, Nenyuk gets to keep the whole thing.

It's easier to get a bank account on Zalanthas than is it in real life. I think it's reasonable to imagine Nenyuk gets the vast vast majority of it's wealth from merchant houses and the nobility - commoners really are just the change (insert be the change joke). Elitism and racism don't need to make sense. If that isn't reason enough them have the city states weigh in to oppress people some more...

How about having to obtain a licence for keeping over a certain amount with Nenyuk? This would tie in nicely with the current tax on merchants (in the form of licences). Currently the system allows players to amass wealth to the point were it has lost it's value. People complain all the time on these boards how wealth is worthless, would this be the right track to solving it?

A cap of even 1000 wouldn't cause new players any problems, either.

OP's suggesting feels a bit awkward, and wouldn't really solve the problem of people who amass wealth easily.

[roughneck]

Having less coins just floating around in the world actually helps, and the death of a super rich character doesn't start a crazy inflation. Which I think is the real purpose with the banks. There's also to many IC reasons for the bank to never change, so this is a moot point.

My perspective as well.