Karma assessment.

[BadSkeelz]

The key to getting karma is to kill karma roles. The drop rate is really low, but sometimes you'll find a karma on their corpse when you loot them.

[Desertman]

If you play mostly solo, your only opportunity to be recognized is to be a good solo RP'er.

If you are a player that plays mostly in clans/with groups of people, you have opportunities to be recognized for things beyond your solo RP.

I can freely admit that when I am alone I rarely throw out emotes and thinks and feels to flesh out the scene. Often it's because I don't have enough energy or interest to do that, and I can't be sure staff are watching.

The only thing we have come to a conclusion about in this thread is this.....

"If you are playing mostly solo but don't have the energy/motivation to be a good solo RP'er, you won't get karma for your solo RP."

However, if you aren't playing mostly solo, then you will have other opportunities to get karma.

The final solution seems to be to put more effort into your solo RP, like manipura, and you will get karma for it too.

You could also start playing in clans or locations that don't force you to do so much solo RP if that is an option for you.

The anecdotal evidence presented here today says two things:

A) People who play in clans get recognized and get karma for their player to player interaction more than people who play solo, because they are playing solo.

B) The few people who prefer to play solo, can and do get the same karma, they just get it through their very good solo RP.

Those are facts as far as the data in this thread is concerned.

(With that being said I am in the same boat with you as far as solo RP is concerned. Sometimes I am spot on with it and doing all of the thinks and feels, and some days, man, I just don't have the energy.)

[Reiloth]

I think off-peak/solo RPers also get it by writing bios (though this mostly shows you are playing a consistent character, at least for me when I write them), keeping Staff informed about their goings on, and generally being a good player.

There are a lot of off-peak Staff too. I've sometimes seen more animations/movement/wishes being answered in the wee hours of the morning rather than at peak.

I think there be plenty of assumptions in this thread, but the moral of the story is, karma is not an end in and of itself. It's a nice pat on the head from Staff, which shouldn't be why you play the game. It's doled out by Staff, at Staff discretion, so I don't think players will ever fully understand why or how they get karma.

[James de Monet]

The key to getting karma is to kill karma roles. The drop rate is really low, but sometimes you'll find a karma on their corpse when you loot them.

Hehehe. At least someone else feels the need to bring some levity to this thread.

I feel like you guys take this too seriously. Both the discussion, and karma in general. You'll notice people with karma keep saying "karma is not an end in itself". They say that because they have realized that karma isn't a destination. You can't plot a course from here to there, like people upset with their karma seem to want to do.  Karma is just something that happens to you when you're playing the game, enjoying it, and doing it well.

I know some people just have a burning desire to play a unicorn mage from day 1, and they get really frustrated looking at the karma points list going "I can do all those things! I'll have unicorn karma in no time!" And then days turn into weeks turn into years, and they still have one freaking point. I TOTALLY understand why that would be frustrating. I think the best advice vets can give in this regard, though, is: Don't worry about the karma. Don't even think about it. The amount you have or don't have isn't a 1:1 reflection of your quality as a role player or how much staff likes or doesn't like you.  In the end, put those dreams of roles you want to play but can't in a purplish basket for another day and don't let the character/player you want to be get in the way of the character/player that you are now. Play the game, have fun, rock the role you're in. You really will be happier for it.

I realize that might kinda seem like empty help, but it's possible it may be the only help anyone can really give you in this regard. FWIW

[Desertman]

I know some people just have a burning desire to play a unicorn mage from day 1

[Zoan]

Of COURSE there's a (probably dA) picture of a unicorn mage, why am I not surprised.

And once upon a time, I cared so damned much about karma. Much like I cared so damned much about anything reward-based in this game. Then I realized that if I want to play something, spec app it, make it sound fun and it'll be given to me 100%.

[Rhyden]

Romantically beating up elves in the street with Byn Sergeant Rythe. Awww. How cute! - 6/16/12

Bahahahaha. Best account note ever. I got a similar one. Good times.

[Dakota]

RE: Bios and Karma... I'm not sure this is the case. I know some staff read them, but I've yet to gotten a single staff note for a Bio entry I've written, let alone karma... Course I stopped writing Bio's after 2 crashes stole them all last year or so

But Srsly. To hell with karma. It's chasing a carrot that only leads to what you get w. a mundane (mud-sex. branching. mantis head). Game gets blown open once you stop caring and circumvent the barrier w. spec apps.

Besides I take pride that I probably did more cool, badass stuff with a 1 karma off-peak, iso-clanned d-elf than many ppl have w. 4-5-6-7 karma PCs.

Come to think of it, I'd rather play a mundane Byn Sarge than a Sorc.  I've run into a few Sorc's in arm (and PK'd a couple) and the RP / interactions / situations I had with them paled in comparison to a good, badass Byn Sarge.

[Cutthroat]

A) People who play in clans get recognized and get karma for their player to player interaction more than people who play solo, because they are playing solo.

B) The few people who prefer to play solo, can and do get the same karma, they just get it through their very good solo RP.

Those are facts as far as the data in this thread is concerned.

I agree. Combine A and B together, and you basically get "Play the game well, and you'll get karma eventually."

Probably a slight oversimplification... the thing is, no one really plays the game "poorly" and sticks around for a long time without getting better. So it's arguably good players without much karma wondering how to get karma. In which case the main problem for them is standing out. Certainly, karma isn't the goal of playing the game - players don't need staff pats on the back to have fun, but it's a nice feeling to be recognized - by players and staff alike - for playing a character well. Player recognition comes in the form of kudos, and staff can send kudos to players too, but they can also give karma.

I think part of the problem with the perception of the karma system is that it can seem somewhat arbitrary looking in from the outside, even with the guidelines on how karma is awarded - it's still controlled by fallible, unevenly perceptive humans that named themselves after pagan gods and other obscure things. The thing is, players don't have to wait around to get karma to play a role that they want. Even if you don't get karma sending weekly reports for a year with the same PC, writing up elaborate biographies and wishing up whenever your PC does something dangerous that the world might react to, etc., you can just special app something and there's a chance the staff will say "Hey, you should have the karma for this anyway - karma granted!" And if not, so long as your request is fairly reasonable, you still get a good chance of landing the role. Karma is only a measure of what you can play immediately, not what you can play after staff has a quick look at your notes and check how many other Nilazi dwarf prostitutes there are already in the game.

[X-D]

Don't really care about karma, I only want more to have it...you know, like collecting beer bottles...or whatever.

Course I did see something in this thread that made me a bit  sad....lately I have been feeling rather good about staff and this...

- He seems to think and feel a lot, even when percieved to be alone. It's really the most enjoyable character I've had the chance to watch out of about ten so far. I find myself wanting to bring the world more alive for it.
- Lots and lots of hemotes when sneaking around, even when completely alone. Nice.
- He's been playing a while. He's consistently one of the most entertaining to watch, and he is one of the few I've seen not to sink into idle skilling while alone,
keeping the bar of RP high.
- Alot of great solo-rp while crafting. Indepth, using thinks, feels and adding some nice realism.
- Consistent solo-player even when just engaging in mundane activities like haggling with shopkeeps.
- Great RP when hunting/skinning, is very thoughtful with where her character is in the world and what she's doing.

...has removed some of that good feeling...please tell me that those are really old.

[BadSkeelz]

What are you actually objecting to, there?

[Harmless]

A lot of Manipura's notes are notes I will never get. I'm just not going to change my roleplaying style towards those directions. The trend for me has been to do less and less hemoting alone. I type out thinks and feels far less often now, but I do think of throwing them in now and again for my character's hidden reactions to other PCs.  The trend is for me to do less of everything Manipura's notes, not more.


The exception would be if I get a special app'ed mage. Since magic is new to me I'll likely do a lot of solo RP surrounding it, but not sure for how long I'll be able to keep that up.

[BadSkeelz]

So what? Solo RP isn't the "secret" to getting Karma. I'd wager that of all the activities that can net you karma, it's probably the least effective overall. Doing nice emotes while you solo-craft in a cave with a box of scraps isn't going to give Staff much insight on how responsibly you'll behave if they give you a jetpack and laser hands. May be how you got those scraps.... Did you scrape them together over a reasonable length of in-character time, or did you just blitz a region spam-foraging?

I feel like it'd been said before, but if not I'll be the one to say it: the first step to getting karma is to not whinge about karma on the GDB. If you play the game responsibly, karma will come to you. If you play to have fun, you may even stop giving a shit about karma.

[Barzalene]

At the risk of sounding rather trite and simplistic, my suggestion for being valuable as a player is to play generously. Play not just to have fun but to make fun. Follow the rules. That's kind of the deal, I think.

[HavokBlue]

I think in general (and not just related to karma) staff are a lot more favorable towards roleplay and plots that involve lots of people.

[manipura]

Don't really care about karma, I only want more to have it...you know, like collecting beer bottles...or whatever.

Course I did see something in this thread that made me a bit  sad....lately I have been feeling rather good about staff and this...

- He seems to think and feel a lot, even when percieved to be alone. It's really the most enjoyable character I've had the chance to watch out of about ten so far. I find myself wanting to bring the world more alive for it.
- Lots and lots of hemotes when sneaking around, even when completely alone. Nice.
- He's been playing a while. He's consistently one of the most entertaining to watch, and he is one of the few I've seen not to sink into idle skilling while alone,
keeping the bar of RP high.
- Alot of great solo-rp while crafting. Indepth, using thinks, feels and adding some nice realism.
- Consistent solo-player even when just engaging in mundane activities like haggling with shopkeeps.
- Great RP when hunting/skinning, is very thoughtful with where her character is in the world and what she's doing.

...has removed some of that good feeling...please tell me that those are really old.

I'm not really sure what you consider "really old." 
Mid to late 2010 - a few months ago.

  Like BadSkeelz, I'm also not really sure what you're objecting to...?

Also, I like how simply Barzalene summed up this whole thread...

.... my suggestion for being valuable as a player is to play generously. Play not just to have fun but to make fun. Follow the rules...

[X-D]

At the risk of derail, I will answer.

Solo "rp" is when you roleplay alone, if your PC is alone or thinks they are then you are performing solo RP.
Roleplay is not emote, semote, etc, it is not even thinks or feels, these are simply tools to help Show that roleplay to others. It should be rated no better or worse then any other roleplay, as long as you are staying in your char then you are roleplaying as well as anybody else.

But what I see in the quoted section is a staffer rating roleplay, "seemingly" By quantity and quality of emotes, thinks feels.

When instead it should be, Is this PC doing what this PC should be doing....Yup...and being fancy about it too...bonus.

Essentually I see a style being rated as above others first off, which is sad...Staffer noting an account because it is a style they like.

Bleh.


On topic though.

I have found that, at least with the newish way staff does karma, that they do  give credit for the less...opinionated parts. Getting to 3 karma seems pretty easy.
Longevity of PC and play.
Playing within the docs and the world.

Just those two show that staff can trust you to a reasonable point...and they are so simple.

After that, any one of the others gets you to three...maybe 4, as playing within the docs could account for up to 3 of the options.

Barz is right though....good way of putting it too.

I am not sure if that should get you karma, but it will get you noticed and you will have more fun along with the people around your PC.

[Harmless]

So what? Solo RP isn't the "secret" to getting Karma. I'd wager that of all the activities that can net you karma, it's probably the least effective overall. Doing nice emotes while you solo-craft in a cave with a box of scraps isn't going to give Staff much insight on how responsibly you'll behave if they give you a jetpack and laser hands. May be how you got those scraps.... Did you scrape them together over a reasonable length of in-character time, or did you just blitz a region spam-foraging?

I feel like it'd been said before, but if not I'll be the one to say it: the first step to getting karma is to not whinge about karma on the GDB. If you play the game responsibly, karma will come to you. If you play to have fun, you may even stop giving a shit about karma.

So what? I'm just commenting that isn't going to happen to me. It's a style, as you say. It's not my style. It likely won't be, but who knows, or for brief periods, it might be. Whatever. I'm in your camp.

Also.. I'm not whining. I'm noticing a lot of trends, though.

I am not sure if that should get you karma, but it will get you noticed and you will have more fun along with the people around your PC.

At the risk of sounding rather trite and simplistic, my suggestion for being valuable as a player is to play generously. Play not just to have fun but to make fun. Follow the rules. That's kind of the deal, I think.

I think in general (and not just related to karma) staff are a lot more favorable towards roleplay and plots that involve lots of people.

Three different people coming in to the thread kind of lateish. All three of them agreeing with each other. Bolded parts that emphasize the inclusion of other players.

This, again, points out that people who have difficulties involving other players in plots will have difficulty doing anything of notice in game and being noticed by staff.

If I have nothing to report on, because I rarely have the chance to interact with players, I will not file reports, and the staff will continue to see me the same.

Anyway, I'm reiterating my difficulty. You guys all make it sound so easy. You're also all really getting involved with other players. I just haven't been able to do that. Trust barriers and the like, I rarely have the -time- to break.


This brings up another point.

Staff changes: The staff rotate every few months. That's cool. But if I only file a report or two every few months, then staffers never get to know me. If I can't keep my PCs alive either, then I rarely get to send more than three interesting reports to one clan before I die. Usually the reports are humdrum at first, as I get to know people. At some point a promotion comes along. Then... splat.

As the months pass, those staffers may even quit being staff. I'm not sure I've ever gained notice from any one staffer significantly. Well. Except for Nyr, of course.

[Lizzie]

I've played times when I've had to solo RP, but solo RP doesn't equate with iso role. A person living in the city, hanging out in the bars, being recognized when they enter and exit a room, is not an iso character. And yet, if they never talk to anyone, they are solo-RPing. A person who plays iso characters might not run into anyone for long periods of time, but thanks to the Way, they aren't always necessarily solo-RPing.

I've played both to some extent. I've played the iso character who wasn't known in the cities at all, and only known "for sure" by a scant few other characters who she only saw maybe for a scant hour or two every RL week. And yet, I managed to get lots of stuff done, and provide bits and pieces of things for other characters to chew on. I wasn't in a leadership role, or a sponsored role.

I've played the semi-solo player who enjoyed both solitude and the company of others to some extent, who didn't "hang out" anywhere for any length of time, was recognized but not known all that well, managed to involve others in things even from the fringes of interaction.

Iso and solo roles don't prevent anyone from being involved or in involving others.

But honestly, this game is a multi-player interactive text game. If you don't like interacting with multiple players, then this might not be the right game for you. You shouldn't be looking at it in terms of "so I won't ever get karma because I don't like to do that stuff." You should be looking at it more of "I won't ever really "get" this game, because I don't like to do that stuff."

[Barzalene]

Three different people coming in to the thread kind of lateish. All three of them agreeing with each other. Bolded parts that emphasize the inclusion of other players.

This, again, points out that people who have difficulties involving other players in plots will have difficulty doing anything of notice in game and being noticed by staff.

I don't know if this will be of any use to you. I kind of suck at plots. I mean I'm great at backing a good idea or running opposition to what seems like a bad idea, but I'm not much good at dynamic game plans. The sort of people I most like to play with are the ones who treat my pc like a real person and I extend the same courtesy to others. Also, and this may seem counter intuitive, it's alright to let other people take the limelight and then react. (This is not a criticism of your play style. It's very likely you are already doing all these things. I don't know who you play.) Maybe this seems really basic and if so I apologize. My point is simply that active participation can be supportive.

[Lizzie]

Three different people coming in to the thread kind of lateish. All three of them agreeing with each other. Bolded parts that emphasize the inclusion of other players.

This, again, points out that people who have difficulties involving other players in plots will have difficulty doing anything of notice in game and being noticed by staff.

I don't know if this will be of any use to you. I kind of suck at plots. I mean I'm great at backing a good idea or running opposition to what seems like a bad idea, but I'm not much good at dynamic game plans. The sort of people I most like to play with are the ones who treat my pc like a real person and I extend the same courtesy to others. Also, and this may seem counter intuitive, it's alright to let other people take the limelight and then react. (This is not a criticism of your play style. It's very likely you are already doing all these things. I don't know who you play.) Maybe this seems really basic and if so I apologize. My point is simply that active participation can be supportive.

Playing supportive roles is pretty much what I was referring to in my previous post. You don't need to be *leading* the plots in order to earn staff notice (for good or for bad, for karma or for not). And you don't need to be clanned to get involved in plots. You don't need to be clanned, or a leader, to create plots. You don't need to be clanned, or in a sponsored role, or a promoted leader, or even in a karma-required role, in order to get involved in plots, move plots, create plots, and thereby gain staff attention (and by extension, earn or not-earn karma).

You can do ALL of these things in a supportive role that might or might not see much interaction with other characters. But the more often you interact, the better the odds are of getting noticed. That's how it is with everything, from real life to gaming. The whole tree in the forest thing: if a tree falls in a forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? The Armageddon answer: No one gives a shit, unless that falling tree means an invasion of halflings a week later.

[Nyr]

This might also be appropriate to toss up here.  Or maybe in the other thread.  Either way.  Here it is.

We're perfectly happy to talk to players that have issues with staff or those that feel that staff have issues with them.  However, we can't read minds, so players would have to initiate that contact through other mediums that we've previously established.  Just like the karma system (with its structure to assist staff in applying the same set of criteria to every player), the complaint system has been fine-tuned and worked on over a period of time.  That is the proper avenue to voice a complaint. Whinging, complaining, or posting choice bits of thoughtful (but negative, subjective, and possibly incorrect) insight on the GDB might be expressive, but since we've already outlined a process for this sort of thing, it will more than likely fall on deaf ears. 

Feel like staff have wronged you?  Put in a staff complaint.  These have to be resolved by Producers.  They cannot be replied to by anyone but a Producer.  (As mentioned above, the system has been fine-tuned to this point over a lengthy period of time--again, only Producers can respond.) You're essentially bringing your issue to the top echelons of the game.

Feel like staff have wronged your friend?  Get them to put in a staff complaint.  You are not privy to both sides of an issue.  You may think you understand the full story; perhaps you do.  It is more than likely that you do not have all of the details, however.

Finally, it is not "your word" against "any number of staff members."  It is what actually occurred on the record--granted, the interpreters of the record ultimately are staff members, but at some point, the volunteers that staff the game have to make decisions of authority.  About that record, though...why do you think we have moved to a request tool that is outside of e-mail?  There were a few reasons behind this, but the chief one is accountability.  For all intents and purposes, it is the truth from which decisions are based.  Why do you think we have added an ability for all Administrators to pull runlogs via a web tool?  Accessibility?  Yes--but another chief reason would be accountability and background.

Perhaps we're all corrupt, standing over you with our collective staff fly unzipped and raining down our negativity and karma docking and bans all over your happy roleplaying, communication (with staff and other players), and player conduct that just has had no fault that you can see (and since you can't see it, it must not be there). 

However, maybe--just maybe?--perhaps you did do something wrong.  And you know what?  The place to talk about that would be the request tool, through the proper channels.

[X-D]

If I have nothing to report on, because I rarely have the chance to interact with players, I will not file reports, and the staff will continue to see me the same.

BTW...I have been told by staff that even putting in a "I have nothing to report" Report is fine.

Not that I do that...I am always lax on reports myself, I simply have other things to do.

Cept for PK reports, I hate doing them and think over all it is stupid, but Meh, the powers that be want it so it is the least I can do.

But yes, it is unlikely I will ever get that karma point...unless I someday take/get a sponsored role.

[BadSkeelz]

What's there not to like about PK reports? They're quick and easy. Mine are rarely more than a few lines of "I killed Amos because he was being a derp and I wanted to." I just save the sdesc and the time in a note pad and file them once I'm safe somewhere.

[MeTekillot]

Karma is like money. How much you care about it is inversely proportional to how much you have.