Tuluk's Shadow Artists: Now With More Flavor

[HavokBlue]

I'm sorry but they're Templars. They can already get rid of you if they need to, and they don't have to go through some complicated scheme of hiring you to do it. Tempalrs are Deus Ex Machina.

It's always preferable in Tuluk to not have attention drawn to you when it comes to violent acts. It's always preferable for a Templar to put out a contract on you than execute you (although they will certainly do that as well).

Want to look good and remain somewhat legal to Templars as a sneaky lawbreaker of some sort at the risk of powerful people being able to use you as they will? Use this system.

Want to get around the troubles of being a sneaky lawbreaker who might oust them self or otherwise draw attention they don't want, don't use the system.

Which is why I think straight up execution for repeat offenders, even if it's a petty crime, should go into the Tuluki law books. No more being nice and registering the offender. Ignorance is no excuse, unless we clearly have a new player who didn't know.

Not registering should be the same as committing treason. Unless the murder is accidental, if you don't have your paperwork in order you should join your victim. That will bring inline the oppression of Tuluk, and make the registering laws relevant. Finally, this should be done publicly or frankly, no one will care.

i bet you're that guy who puts 3000 coin bounties on pickpockets for stealing your dagger

[Jherlen]

For the idea that it should be non-templar shadow brokers, I see two potential problem areas:

If the shadow brokers were not templars, how would they avoid arm-twisting by the templarate? Or the nobility, for that matter?

Much the same way the GMH agents and the Guild and other types can avoid arm-twisting; they have a powerful organization behind them, stronger than the influence of any PC noble or templar.

Also, if there's one sponsored role for a (non-templar) shadow broker, is that character going to be available enough to meet with all the artists and agents for every contract?

That's a good question. There might need to be more than one. There might even need to be a way to set up contracts without having to meet the shadow broker directly. This is something we'd have to be careful of. At the same time, at least this would be the only thing the shadow brokers have to do. Having templars handle all this wouldn't reduce the amount of effort involved at all. So when janeshephard says,

If this moves away from Templars, they have one less task to do.

I say yeah, and that's probably a good thing. I doubt templars are really suffering from too little to do.

[Nyr]

I really doubt we're going to go with a third party group created just to handle one thing in one city-state.  It works structurally within the templarate already now.  Expanding what it can do and defining some rules around what each party is expected to do (even if we allow corruption, cheating, whatever on different ends) doesn't mean we need a separate group maintaining the system.

No group in a city-state should be beyond the power of the templarate of that city-state--including individual nobles or templars.  If the goal is to use this as a way to collect coin, manage "organized" crime, and collect intel on who is doing what, where, and why, it is a goal served best by direct templar management.  That is the goal of the templarate in this case.

Right now I'm compiling a list of the ideas we really liked, the ones that are so-so and in between, and the ones that are definitely no-go's so that the staff team can review and then see what we want to tweak.

[Jherlen]

Dang. Well, I tried. 

Looking forward to the next round, Nyr. Thanks for taking all the input!

[mansa]

I tried to implement a "thief's guild" type of structure many moons ago in game, in character, and the copper war got in the way of implementing it.

I really like this.  I like this so much I might make a thief character in Tuluk.

[Barsook]

I really like this.  I like this so much I might make a thief character in Tuluk.

[Ouroboros]

I really doubt we're going to go with a third party group created just to handle one thing in one city-state.  It works structurally within the templarate already now.  Expanding what it can do and defining some rules around what each party is expected to do (even if we allow corruption, cheating, whatever on different ends) doesn't mean we need a separate group maintaining the system.

If this is to be kept in the hands of Templars, then abuse of the system should be explicitly forbidden in the documentation and no leeway for corruption offered. It will likely still happen, for various reasons, but at that point it will be up to staff to enforce said documentation. Permitting corruption on the Templar's end is only desirable if they're not the Brokers, because remaining unbiased would fall on the shoulders of a third party, leaving Templars to be as corrupt as they like.

If the few of us trying to present arguments for a third party haven't convinced you, then I would once again ask to take you up on your offer to share the Templar's side of the documentation. That way perhaps those of us with strong hesitations on this can be convinced of your own case in favor of Templar mediation.

No group in a city-state should be beyond the power of the templarate of that city-state--including individual nobles or templars.  If the goal is to use this as a way to collect coin, manage "organized" crime, and collect intel on who is doing what, where, and why, it is a goal served best by direct templar management.  That is the goal of the templarate in this case.

Is that the goal, however? It would be if this was a racket implemented by the Templars, certainly. The goal in that case would be for Templars to line their pockets, collect information and dirt to use or abuse, and bring a large portion of the criminal element working for them instead of in spite of them. Is that what's desired though? And I question that both from an OOC standpoint, as well as what might serve the city best from an IC standpoint.

Or is this more a time-honored tradition evolving into simply a more structured and elegant form? A tradition that has as much to do with peacekeeping as it does with public appearances and an artist's eternal search of perfection? A way for disputes to be settled quietly and efficiently, with the social castes and the status they offer adhered to? Is this something meant to serve Templars, or Tuluki society as a whole?

The Faithful have no great need of further methods in gaining information. I won't go into details since that's apparently delving into IC territory, but anyone unaware of my meaning will just have to accept the fact that the Northern Templars are already far too overpowered in that area. Coin? I hardly think that's a problem for them either, and they already have several lovely rackets going which I once again can't discuss. As for crime being managed... It'll happen through this system one way or another, the only question is whether Shadow Artists will end up serving the Templars or Tuluki Society as a whole. But organized crime being largely controlled is the inevitable and desired outcome of this any which way you cut it.

You should decide if this system is meant to serve Agents and Artists, or Templars, and go from there. It can't serve both, unless a third, neutral party is placed in charge, in which case it can serve all. Barring that though, the needs of the Faithful differ vastly from the needs of everyone else, including both Agents and Artists, and while on paper it might seem like a perfect balance can be achieved... In practice it will always tip in the Templar's favor. So from a balance stand-point, as well as a thematic one, do we need to give Templars in the North even more power than they already hold? Or should this instead be a way to breath new life into a tradition that's failed to see use by those it's intended to serve to begin with?

Right now I'm compiling a list of the ideas we really liked, the ones that are so-so and in between, and the ones that are definitely no-go's so that the staff team can review and then see what we want to tweak.

Definitely looking forward to your feedback and thoughts, as you and other staff members go over this list. And while it's been said by many already, I'll go ahead and echo it as well on the record... It's great to see the level of transparency and involvement you've offered the community in this project. I hope it proves a great case-study in paving the way towards more open communication and collaboration between staff and players in future projects, as IC matters permit.

[Nyr]

Maybe a little clarification is needed on one point because there's concern that templars won't handle stuff properly, that they're biased, that they have issues, etc.  So...as an example...here's how it was handled before, back when there were two Orders.  These are practices as of two weeks ago and for years before that.

(Thanks to the PC templar that put this together!)

Lirathans (brokers) meet with the hiring party (Shadow Agents) and listen to their request for a contract. The hiring party can either request a specific Artist (usually an employee) or ask the Lirathan to find a suitable Artist. The contract fee is determined, although the Artist's fee is added later (requiring the Lirathan to contact the hiring party again before sealing the deal). A suitable Artist is approached and asked to take the contract and name their fee. If they decline to take the contract they are warned not to speak of it to anyone (not always adhered to by Artists) or face the consequences. In the case of an Artist not employed by the hiring party, there is a double-blind and neither party is aware of each other's identity. Artists cannot approach the Lirathans on behalf of a hiring party, nor can they arrange contracts on their own behalf.

Requested contracts are never refused as long as the target is valid. Invalid targets include Legionnaires, Faithful and Chosen (unless hiring party has enough social rank to take out a hit on a noble). Inability to pay the determined fee is also grounds for rejection. The Lirathan broker may adjust the contract fee to suit the hiring party's social rank as well as that of the target's. Individuals important to the Ivory and to the Lirathan will be very expensive to take out contracts on. Most contracts have a time limit. Separate but similar contracts can be issued if the hiring party wants more than one of their artists to cooperate. It is not possible to buy immunity to assassination from the Faithful.

When everything has been agreed on and coins have changed hands, the Artist receives a written license to kill the target. Once the deed is done, the scroll is returned to the Lirathan who issued it. If the assassination was flawed, the Artist is corrected as seen fit.

Lirathans, and Jihaens, are not allowed to share information on contracts outside of the Templarate. They are not allowed to warn the target or to otherwise interfere with the contract once issued. Concerned employers with sufficient social rank might get a "Yes it was licensed" if they inquire about a dead employee - which basically helps promote the system (and it promotes plots/paranoia without giving away protected Templar-only information).

The Faithful do not interfere with the contracts, nor do they disappear assassins targeting their pets. The Faithful have good reasons to have faith in and protect the system of licensed assassination (and theft) because it keeps the unlicensed crime down, brings them income with little effort, lets them keep track of hits and feuds, and promotes culture/art which the city appreciates and thrives on. In the rare event of a Faithful stepping over the line, harsh punishment and correction awaits. In addition, their peers will have less trust in them and their dealings. Lirathans are closely monitored by their superiors to make sure they don't issue flawed or biased contracts, and that they pick suitable artists for the jobs.

What we're suggesting here as documentation is not very far from how we were running this already.  There are some differences.  The major differences:

--the double blind is required, even if it is only a formality (in the case of a partisan artist)
--artist ranks are formalized and coupled with tattoos
--payscales raised and matched to artist rank, difficulty of the job, quality of work required, or special requests for the work required (not that pay was shit before, but documentation-wise, it was)
--no artist is entirely devoted to their patron; they will do work for the city-state as needed regardless of their rank as an artist (this prevents patrons from sucking up all of the interested PCs in such a field; while that might keep THEM safe, it still allows artist work to be done throughout the rest of the city)
--if an artist is a Master, they can be given a contract against employers/patrons if they do have one (if they aren't a Master, they won't ever be used against their own patron/organization)

Things I personally think are good ideas to add to what has been seen so far, but will be reviewed by the staff team:

• make sure players are aware that there are certainly OOC and even IC/OOC mixed up reasons for why a contract could not be taken OR completed.  I.E., artist player is about to go on vacation, target stopped playing, timezone/playtime arrangement difficulties, etc.
• develop the rank chart further and move it to the new website.
• Give some examples of potential contracts apart from the stuff that has been done before.  Things that go beyond "steal stuff" and "kill dude."  Players can be very imaginative, but you can't read our minds on what we think is "imaginative" with regards to an open-ended system.
• Specify that patrons really should be skimming off of the jobs their partisan artists do for "the system."  I.E., "oh you did some work.  I expect my cut in exchange for you keeping your position here.  I don't care what you did, I just want my money."

Things for review (i.e. we will discuss some more staff-side):

• training and such -- how to address the situation without forcing players into silly justification games for working on skills
• Decide how far to let templars go with regards to corruption within this system (not in general, we are fine with corrupt templars and are trying to create an environment for that in Tuluk, but traditionally this system has worked without overt manipulation in the past)
• acceptance cant -- ritualized way to handle becoming an artist, accepting tasks, etc as this is part of tradition
• defining unlicensed crime a bit better even if it's just to vaguely acknowledge its existence as something to be "stamped out"
• consider better refund rates for tasks completely screwed up
• consider situations that might require (or in which an artist might request) multiple artists for assistance

[Nyr]

Also, a brief look at what we've laid out for templars as part of the same proposal.  There are things not part of this since this is a FAQ, not really the usual sort of doc (we need a basic pay scale recommendation, and we need a guideline for what justifies rank increases, and some other stuff that needs to be discussed staff-side).

So You Want To Rule The Artists...
You're a templar in Tuluk.  You've got this thing in the bag.  Time to learn how to do it right!

What do I do in this system?
The templarate is the broker for shadow artists.  Any of that sort of thing must come through you.  There is no contract work pursued outside of what you authorize.  In its simplest form, a contracting agent meets with you.  They tell you what they want done against someone.  You tell them how much it will cost.  They pay you.  You pick an artist from a list of artists, and provided they can handle the job, you send them on their way after paying them half up front.  When they're done, you pay them the other half.

What's in it for the templarate?
In a word:  money.  In another word:  information.  You get paid to broker the deal and maintain the anonymity of the contract (in most cases).  You get the information, knowing who is having what issues with what person.  This information is useful to a templarate interested in keeping tabs on everyone.

Can I say no to a contract?
Generally, no, you can't.  There are two reasons to say no to a contract.

• Social rank/caste.  If the contracting agent is lower in rank/caste than their intended target, the contract must be rejected.
• Templarate and Legion immunity from harm.  While there may be opportunity for a contract that serves to teach a lesson or that serves to act as a prank, any contract that intends physical harm to a templar or a soldier must be rejected.  At any rate, it would take a templar to do that in the first place.

But they're wanting to kill a friend of mine...I like that guy, why can't I deny the contract?
While you do control the price (to a large extent) and the artist selection (to a large extent), you have to accept that this system is intended to function THROUGH the templarate.  Besides, you're one of His Faithful, how do you have time for friends?  You're not an automaton, you don't have to like it, but you do know how the system is supposed to work.

Are you saying I could price a contracting agent out of a contract, or pick an artist I know will fail?
If you feel there is a case to be made for someone's contract to be reviewed, let us know.  Otherwise, you should stick to the guidelines and broker the artists rather than play politics with the contracts you get.

How do I register an artist?
Meet with them privately and ensure they actually understand what they are getting into with this shadow artist thing.  While you will do what you can to only give them work they can complete, they will be challenged at times by what they are given.  They cannot refuse a contract.  They do not talk about their contracts to unauthorized people.  If you're up for it and if the need arises, you can also seek out prospective artists on your own.  A minimum amount of active artists are needed to do the work that we expect will be called for by this system.

Chosen Lord So-and-so has a lower or mid-ranked artist working directly for him and wants to designate a contract to her...how do I proceed?
You tell him how much it costs and you accept his money to pay for the contract.  You contact his artist and let her know what to do, and also that this is a patron contract.  This means that the patron can guide them with regards to how to pursue the contract, as well.

Chosen Lord So-and-so has a lower or mid-ranked artist working directly for him, and I think the artist is ready to become a fully fledged shadow artist of the highest rank...how do I proceed?
First, run it by staff.  This is a new system, after all.  Assuming all pans out and we agree that they've done good work, meet with the artist privately.  Explain to them that you feel their talents are exceptional and deserve reward in the form of another rank.  However, they must know that with this rank comes additional responsibility:  they are loyal to Tuluk first and foremost.  Any ties of employment or partisanship are second to the city.  This may mean that their ties of employment will clash with their ties to the city (in other words, they may be used against their own employer).  If they agree that this is fine, great--ink them on up and now they're free to use for that kind of stuff in case it comes up.  If they do not agree, then they may not proceed any higher in rank, for they have not passed the test of loyalty to the city.

I've got a contract from someone to kill Chosen Lord So-and-so...do I have to use that aforementioned well-placed artist, or can I use someone else?
Up to you.  Generally, you should use the best artist for the job.  In this case, the best artist is the one that is allowed through the gate.  Chosen Lord So-and-so knew what he was getting into by employing this artist!  Sometimes, the risks outweigh the rewards...

An artist really screwed up, and I mean horribly...what do I do to punish them?
They knew going into it that screwing up can mean punishment.  We'll lay out some documentation on possible punishments.  Right now, you know that the range of it can be minor (fines or even a whipping) to major (removal from artistry, disappearance).

An artist is talking too much, telling everyone what they did on their last contract...what do I...?
They aren't disappeared yet?  Snap to it, you've got a job to do!

[janeshephard]

So being journeyman forever is OK?

[Irulan]

Maybe a little clarification is needed on one point because there's concern that templars won't handle stuff properly, that they're biased, that they have issues, etc.  So...as an example...here's how it was handled before, back when there were two Orders.  These are practices as of two weeks ago and for years before that.

(Thanks to the PC templar that put this together!)

Lirathans (brokers) meet with the hiring party (Shadow Agents) and listen to their request for a contract. The hiring party can either request a specific Artist (usually an employee) or ask the Lirathan to find a suitable Artist. The contract fee is determined, although the Artist's fee is added later (requiring the Lirathan to contact the hiring party again before sealing the deal). A suitable Artist is approached and asked to take the contract and name their fee. If they decline to take the contract they are warned not to speak of it to anyone (not always adhered to by Artists) or face the consequences. In the case of an Artist not employed by the hiring party, there is a double-blind and neither party is aware of each other's identity. Artists cannot approach the Lirathans on behalf of a hiring party, nor can they arrange contracts on their own behalf.

Requested contracts are never refused as long as the target is valid. Invalid targets include Legionnaires, Faithful and Chosen (unless hiring party has enough social rank to take out a hit on a noble). Inability to pay the determined fee is also grounds for rejection. The Lirathan broker may adjust the contract fee to suit the hiring party's social rank as well as that of the target's. Individuals important to the Ivory and to the Lirathan will be very expensive to take out contracts on. Most contracts have a time limit. Separate but similar contracts can be issued if the hiring party wants more than one of their artists to cooperate. It is not possible to buy immunity to assassination from the Faithful.

When everything has been agreed on and coins have changed hands, the Artist receives a written license to kill the target. Once the deed is done, the scroll is returned to the Lirathan who issued it. If the assassination was flawed, the Artist is corrected as seen fit.

Lirathans, and Jihaens, are not allowed to share information on contracts outside of the Templarate. They are not allowed to warn the target or to otherwise interfere with the contract once issued. Concerned employers with sufficient social rank might get a "Yes it was licensed" if they inquire about a dead employee - which basically helps promote the system (and it promotes plots/paranoia without giving away protected Templar-only information).

The Faithful do not interfere with the contracts, nor do they disappear assassins targeting their pets. The Faithful have good reasons to have faith in and protect the system of licensed assassination (and theft) because it keeps the unlicensed crime down, brings them income with little effort, lets them keep track of hits and feuds, and promotes culture/art which the city appreciates and thrives on. In the rare event of a Faithful stepping over the line, harsh punishment and correction awaits. In addition, their peers will have less trust in them and their dealings. Lirathans are closely monitored by their superiors to make sure they don't issue flawed or biased contracts, and that they pick suitable artists for the jobs.

What we're suggesting here as documentation is not very far from how we were running this already. 

Wow, thanks for sharing this. I've been playing in Tuluk for the last few years, and I didn't know that this was how it was done at all. Knowledge is power!

[Jingo]

Looks good actually.

Couple of questions:

I'm assuming legionaries still can't become shadow artists? I'm assuming they can skirt the system to a degree and act on their own to bully or intimidate outside of being a shadow artist. Just because they are corrupt militia.

Chosen Lord is being bothered/insulted by blah and wants revenge. Whats the incentive for a templar to broker the contract when they can just disappear or take care of the problem themselves? Leaders have a tendency of playing mother hen already. And why use the rook when you already are a queen.

[janeshephard]

Its about sending a message not clearing a threat.

[Jherlen]

Nyr, this looks good, but as I've mentioned in my previous posts, I think it's a shame to make Tuluki templars bound by the system and apolitical. Quotes like these kind of make me sad (sad parts in bold.)

But they're wanting to kill a friend of mine...I like that guy, why can't I deny the contract?
While you do control the price (to a large extent) and the artist selection (to a large extent), you have to accept that this system is intended to function THROUGH the templarate.  Besides, you're one of His Faithful, how do you have time for friends?  You're not an automaton, you don't have to like it, but you do know how the system is supposed to work.

Are you saying I could price a contracting agent out of a contract, or pick an artist I know will fail?
If you feel there is a case to be made for someone's contract to be reviewed, let us know.  Otherwise, you should stick to the guidelines and broker the artists rather than play politics with the contracts you get.

I still think having templars be self-serving and governed by their own ambitions first, and tradition second (as long as they aren't breaking traditions in a public way) would be better. But oh well.

Couple things you might wanna clarify:

- Can templars "amend" a contract another templar has negotiated? Say Faithful Lady Talia sets up a contract on Amos, Faithful Lord Mailk's partisan, for 2000 sid. Since Malik says Amos is "Useful to His Ivory", can Malik up that fee to 5000, when he hears about it?

- Who gets to be the judge how "well" the contract was executed? The first templar on the scene, the one who negotiated the contract? Is there an objective standard or can templars help/hurt shadow artists by ignoring/noticing details as they like?

[janeshephard]

i bet you're that guy who puts 3000 coin bounties on pickpockets for stealing your dagger

There has been discussion of utilization. If players are going to kill/steal it is far better to encourage them to do it within a system in Tuluk.

Want mayhem and chaos? It's called Allanak.

[Dar]

Nyr. I'm sorry, but this thread got so big, I'm amazed you're keeping up with it all. I've stopped long time ago.

Overall, I love the initiative and how it is being handled, I cant wait for you guys to mull over ideas and suggestions and general feedback and hopefully, letting us pick apart and gnaw on whatever is the finished product some more.

Personally, I'm going to stop reading majority of the posts, because ... I am losing track. There's too much.

I wish Nyr and others helping him great luck. I hope this system will work. Who knows, maybe I'll even have some chara give it a try, someday.

[janeshephard]

Nyr. I'm sorry, but this thread got so big, I'm amazed you're keeping up with it all. I've stopped long time ago.

QFT for truth.

[Armaddict]

It's likely been covered, and I probably just missed it.

Can templars in any way, shape, or form, -acceptably- give away information about what was done or by whom, to anyone?

Nyr:  It tickles the bottom of my stony heartstrings to see you actually modifying and planning with the feedback.  I appreciate what you do, even when I come in as a dissenter.

[Blur]

Maybe a little clarification is needed on one point because there's concern that templars won't handle stuff properly, that they're biased, that they have issues, etc.  So...as an example...here's how it was handled before, back when there were two Orders.  These are practices as of two weeks ago and for years before that.

(Thanks to the PC templar that put this together!)

Invalid targets include Legionnaires, Faithful and Chosen (unless hiring party has enough social rank to take out a hit on a noble).

Hey! Legionnaires could be targetted too. I know mine was at least. Though granted my legionnaire was still a recruit and was killed by someone (a higher ranking legionnaire) who had alot of IC history with the faithful lady in question so they kinda had the social rank to pull it off, I assume.  However, this was years ago though alot of things changed since then so it might be true now. I do also remember becoming a licensed thief once too and the faithful lady told me not to target a specific building because all her partisons lived there. That was years and years ago though which made it suck a bit more than it even would now since it was before more expensive apartments buildings where added to tuluk.

All that said I have faith that the templars will be able to maintain the system, what I have a harder time believing is that there will be room for unlicensed crime to florish. I feel one bored templar will still be able to completely eradicate crime in tuluk not to mention the fact that not following the system might be considered treasonous. To me this adds another barrier to being a true criminal . I generally feel most tulukians are taught/forced or are naturally patriotic to the Ivory and sometimes as an extention to the faithful lords and ladies. If you aren't,you might disappear after all. I rather not see being a true criminal in tuluk the equivalent of making a half-elf mage from the rinth your lover. Thats problably the biggest reason I would like someone other than the faithful lord or ladies dealing with the system so it doesn't seem as treasonous or unpatriotic not to use it. However, instead of a third party, maybe just a shift in thinking might be enough? Equally just because you may be greedy, corupt or selfish shouldn't mean you are a total traitor to your city and/or culture.

I think this has been said before though, and alot of work and effort is being put into the new system so I digress.  Besides regardless of what is decided, it'll be interesting to see how it all turns out once it is implemented.  

[HavokBlue]

It always bothers me when Templars in either city accuse petty criminals of treason or "crimes against the Highlord himself!"

That poor common peasant you don't give a shit about stole something you don't give a shit about from some other poor common peasant you don't give a shit about. Better call for air support.

[Knight of Knives]

I'm just curious- as to the outrage over not being able to kill a templar...

Has anyone ever bought a contract for a Faithful to be murdered, from another Faithful? The way the system currently stands, you -still- have to go through the Faithful to order a hit on one, so you'd have to be really assured that the templar you talked to was for it themselves or didn't care.

I mean, it doesn't seem that it's really changing.

[Bogre]

Oddly enough, what I get from those numbers is that there's a lot less hate towards Southern Templars from the player population. It makes one wonder why that is.

It's probably that Tuluki templars tangle with PC magickers more so than Allanaki templars.

[Bogre]

Instead they become loyal servants of X leader PC, and of course nobody outside of X leader has any real chance of hiring them to do something cool. And why would X leader ever risk trying to hire someone outside of their House for risky, potentially embarrassing jobs?

I would hire people outside my House to do stuff so it doesn't lead back to me.

You have to hire someone else to hire outside the House so it doesn't get back to you. It boils down to PC leaders generally trusting the PC that they've had in their House for 5 IC years rather than some outside PC.

[janeshephard]

It always bothers me when Templars in either city accuse petty criminals of treason or "crimes against the Highlord himself!"

That poor common peasant you don't give a shit about stole something you don't give a shit about from some other poor common peasant you don't give a shit about. Better call for air support.

They're not supposed to. Specifically, Templars aren't supposed to go after every petty crime and make a huge deal out of it. I haven't seen this in the game at all.

In Tuluk, though, I think some criminals need to be made an example of or no one is going to bother registering. That was my point.

I've already seen people completely ignore racism. I've seen players accuse others of "hate" when they act racist (yeah I know!). I've seen players completely ignore southrons showing up. Unless these attitudes are reinforced at a higher level, players will ignore documentation. Utilization of registration will remain low until it becomes in the players interest.

[Lizzie]

It always bothers me when Templars in either city accuse petty criminals of treason or "crimes against the Highlord himself!"

That poor common peasant you don't give a shit about stole something you don't give a shit about from some other poor common peasant you don't give a shit about. Better call for air support.

They're not supposed to. Specifically, Templars aren't supposed to go after every petty crime and make a huge deal out of it. I haven't seen this in the game at all.

In Tuluk, though, I think some criminals need to be made an example of or no one is going to bother registering. That was my point.

I've already seen people completely ignore racism. I've seen players accuse others of "hate" when they act racist (yeah I know!). I've seen players completely ignore southrons showing up. Unless these attitudes are reinforced at a higher level, players will ignore documentation. Utilization of registration will remain low until it becomes in the players interest.

What you've seen, isn't necessarily what's going on. If you have a complaint against a player, file a player complaint. Here's an idea of what's going on:


You see:
Talia sits at the bar in Tuluk, showing off her citizen inks. Southerner without a Byn cloak, Salarr epaullettes, Fist Eclipse, or Kadian cape, shows up and sits down.

You see Talia look at the guy, nod an acknowledgement of his existence, and take a sip from her cup.

What's going on that you don't see:

Talia thinks, "Muthafucka southerner has the unmitigated gall to show up in OUR city after HIS people tried to war with us? Who the fuck does he think he is?"

Talia contacts her boss, Chosen Lady Malika, who is best pals with Faithful Lord Negean, head of the current batch of Legionirres.

Three minutes later, Amos, the Legionairre private in Negean's crew, shows up, lowering the hood of his tabard, sits down at the bar, and he and Talia start having a mundane conversation about nothing of significance.

Amos looks at Southerner - and emotes that he's keeping an eye on Southerner throughout the conversation. Talia continues to behave as though nothing unusual was going on.

But she's thinking "One move, buster, and you're disappeared."

To all observing, Talia is generally ignoring the fact that a filthy scum southerner is in the bar.

She is most certainly not ignoring him - and in fact she has taken action to ensure that the southerner is made to feel unwelcome, and watched, and suspected - while appearing herself to be entirely oblivious to the events.