A world without sexism confuses and angers me.

[Narf]

I have alway liked the equal but different the same things make or brains genetically male and female (not our bodies because their is a difference) effect our hormones which in turn effect our behavior. It is not some learned thing. One of my Dads grad students is doing a really interesting study atm on the effects of hormones on developing brains and how that in turn effects behavior. It a neat read so far. Mainly because it is not specific to humans or even mammals.
       Masculine and Feminine behavior is not something human culture made it up it is a product of the chemical soup created by our brains. Our culture has developed different ways to display that behavior but I do not feel I am falling into a stero-type because i chose to have my PC cross her legs when she sits at a bar. There is a difference in sexism and acting feminine or masculine. I should be able to play a girlie girl who can still kick your butt in the sparing ring then flounce off for tea and crumpets if I want to and not be judged for it. Thats sexist too 

For added clarification my father is a scientist with SCDNR he runs the Genomics dept and has double PHD in (what is now called) Genomics and Marine Bio. He also seats a chair at S.C. medical university MUSC. Leads to some really interesting people at his Christmas parties, however I digress.

Sounds like a good study with a potentially devastatingly fallacious conclusion. Biology and culture exist in a feedback loop, with each affecting the other. I've seen research on the impact of testosterone on behavior and testosterone actually has a different effect on a person's behavior dependent on their position within a social hierchy. I haven't seen as much research on things moving in the other direction, but I am aware that they do. Environmental effects can adjust how your hormones work, and culture is an environmental effect. It is in fact an environmental effect that we've been hardwired by millions of years of evolution to respond very acutely to in fact.

Culture (along with other environmental effects) can cancel or augment some of the effects of hormones, or it can change how those hormones impact behavior, or it can change the actual quantity of hormone produced.

Of course that goes both ways, with hormones having an impact on our culture as well, but to my knowledge this hasn't been studied as well.

[Bluefae]

I tend to experience sexism against my PC when I'm playing males more often than females.

    I haven't played enough male characters to say there's more RL-ish sexism in that direction, but it does absolutely exist, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was, in fact, greater (the old "better a strong woman than a weak man" thing).  I'm practically lusting after playing a long-lived, "feminine" male character.  I just haven't been able to keep any of them alive long enough.  

    Heck, as long as there's room for both types in the world (viragos and feminine guys) I'm happy.  

     Edited to add:  Thanks for beating me to point out the ancient "Nurture/Nature" angle, Narf.

[Patuk]

If Zalanthan women are physically equally strong as men are, I think it's safe for them to also not be affected differently by hormones.

[Narf]

I tend to experience sexism against my PC when I'm playing males more often than females.

    I haven't played enough male characters to say there's more RL-ish sexism in that direction, but it does absolutely exist, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was, in fact, greater (the old "better a strong woman than a weak man" thing).  I'm practically lusting after playing a long-lived, "feminine" male character.  I just haven't been able to keep any of them alive long enough.  

I saw a really well played male prostitute that fit that bill pretty well I think a year or two back or so. Entirely outsider observer unverified guestimation here, but it kinda looked like he was ignored more than similiarly played female characters. I hope he got to be brutally murdered, instead of storing out of boredom. That would make me sad.

[Bluefae]

     That's really neat that those kinds of characters are about, Narf.  "Be the change you want to see" and all that.  I'm tryin'!  =)

[Zoan]

I tend to experience sexism against my PC when I'm playing males more often than females.

ha ha ha you dont play males though

[Zoan]

Sometimes I play females who I want to exaggerate the gentler sides of the gender. Maleness and gentleness doesn't work as well.

Same with males and being tougher. We just more easily accept it. It doesn't mean I'm being sexist, it's just me knowing that if I want to make a first impression to people, it'll be easier with certain culturally pre-defined acceptances.

[Case]

It's telling that discussion of sexism and a world without it focuses on portrayal of women and the behaviours women express as per stereotypical femininity.

[Patuk]

It's telling that discussion of sexism and a world without it focuses on portrayal of women and the behaviours women express as per stereotypical femininity.

Welcome to reality.

[Bast]

I wish there was a Highlady.  all the big powers that be in Arm have penises what gives. The sun kings daughter should knife him in the back or something.

[Bast]

I have alway liked the equal but different the same things make or brains genetically male and female (not our bodies because their is a difference) effect our hormones which in turn effect our behavior. It is not some learned thing. One of my Dads grad students is doing a really interesting study atm on the effects of hormones on developing brains and how that in turn effects behavior. It a neat read so far. Mainly because it is not specific to humans or even mammals.
       Masculine and Feminine behavior is not something human culture made it up it is a product of the chemical soup created by our brains. Our culture has developed different ways to display that behavior but I do not feel I am falling into a stero-type because i chose to have my PC cross her legs when she sits at a bar. There is a difference in sexism and acting feminine or masculine. I should be able to play a girlie girl who can still kick your butt in the sparing ring then flounce off for tea and crumpets if I want to and not be judged for it. Thats sexist too 

For added clarification my father is a scientist with SCDNR he runs the Genomics dept and has double PHD in (what is now called) Genomics and Marine Bio. He also seats a chair at S.C. medical university MUSC. Leads to some really interesting people at his Christmas parties, however I digress.

Sounds like a good study with a potentially devastatingly fallacious conclusion. Biology and culture exist in a feedback loop, with each affecting the other. I've seen research on the impact of testosterone on behavior and testosterone actually has a different effect on a person's behavior dependent on their position within a social hierchy. I haven't seen as much research on things moving in the other direction, but I am aware that they do. Environmental effects can adjust how your hormones work, and culture is an environmental effect. It is in fact an environmental effect that we've been hardwired by millions of years of evolution to respond very acutely to in fact.

Culture (along with other environmental effects) can cancel or augment some of the effects of hormones, or it can change how those hormones impact behavior, or it can change the actual quantity of hormone produced.

Of course that goes both ways, with hormones having an impact on our culture as well, but to my knowledge this hasn't been studied as well.

The study is not about humans.  so culture is not a factor environmental effects caused by humans however is.

[musashi]

Man, I honestly never think about sexism in the game. Or use gender themed words for that matter. Calling an fme useless seems to work just as well be they male or female.

[Bluefae]

It's telling that discussion of sexism and a world without it focuses on portrayal of women and the behaviours women express as per stereotypical femininity.

Welcome to reality.

     And for every trope, a counter-trope; behold:  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenAreBetterThanWomen

     As to the focus of this particular discussion, yes, it started focused on the portrayal of female characters.  I'd be more than happy to have a thread about how men are portrayed in the game as well.

[Sanvean]

I'd be more than happy to have a thread about how men are portrayed in the game as well.

This seems like a fine angle to me. Or even why these discussions do seem to always revolve around limiting play as a female, not as a male. I hadn't noticed that pattern before, and it unfolds all sorts of interesting thoughts and conjectures. But I need to go teach instead of maundering on the GDB. :p

[Bast]

Have you ever noticed that while there is an outstanding amount of bi-sexual female characters played there seems to be very few male pcs interested in open/bi-sexual relationships with other men? Or even if they say they are, they next to never pursue relations with other males? I am not saying it does not happen, but in my personal experience it is something I have seen very, very rarely in comparison. I think that's directly related to it being more social acceptable for woman to be bi-sexual and less so for men in our IRL western culture. I would love to see more big burly male Byners playing grab ass with each other in Gaj. In fact I think my next Char is gonna be male.
          I am very open with my sexuality and gender tends not to factor in when I am 'on the prowel' IRL but I tend to avoid this pretty often on Arm because it always tends to lead to someone looking to indulge their personal fantasies about having multiple ladies in the bed and generally acting like ho's  . Also, the whole, just because I am open minded about my sex life, having multiple partners, and choice in partners does not mean I am still not picky or that I do not have standards, or that I want to sleep with you. Open mind, and experimental does not equal "Hi I am a Slut. I will go to bed with anyone that shakes my hand".
         I also thinks its bad that your judged poorly (by some) if you want to play an attractive PC once in while or that your obviously fishing for mud sex if your Female PC happens to have a medium or large breast size. I am naturally a D cup IRL that does not mean I want to sleep with everyone that give me a wink. I have on multiple occasions seen -modestly- dressed PC's have people ask them if they are whores based, as far as I could tell, solely on the fact that they had an attractive Main Desc. Lets ignore the fact the actual whores in a society like on the mud would be covered in festering sores... seriously look up some old pics of what real whores from back in the day looked like. They were not glamours attractive woman. Lately I have seemed to notice a trend with a large amount of female PC's having ant-bites for boobs and I honestly think its part of the whole oh well I don't want to seem anti-feminist and display woman in an unrealistic way. Just an Fyi while I am ranting the average breast size (without implants) is between 34B and 32C.

Sorry to rant about that but the last couple Character descriptions I have written up I have felt guilty and really wrestled over weather or not to even mention bust and actually worried I would be looked down on for having a character with a bust size similar to my own. Which made me in turn wonder why I should I feel guilty about  being well endowed up top.

[musashi]

Don't you ever feel bad about having boobs. Ever!

In my experience, how attracted to PC's other PC's are, seems to relate far more to their style of emotes/how much they flirt rather than their mdesc.

Sometimes, when I see rather unattractive but otherwise well played PC's getting hit on, I can't help but wonder if anyone really reads the descriptions anyway 

[Delirium]

In more impoverished/desert areas, average breast size is an A cup. Ladies need lots of protein (and genes) to develop them luscious boobs. If they're especially active (warrior women) naturally large breasts will be even more uncommon. It's not a bad thing to have big boobs, but maybe the PCs are just trying to display the world realistically, not just going 'oh geez I don't want to seem like I'm trying to be *gasp* pretty.' And yes, I've played the whole spectrum of boob sizes.

[ShaLeah]

Sometimes, when I see rather unattractive but otherwise well played PC's getting hit on, I can't help but wonder if anyone really reads the descriptions anyway 

One of my chars was horrifically scarred, ug-leee. She got more ass than a toilet seat.

[Zoan]

Tell us more about the boobs you have roleplayed as, girls.

[Is Friday]

Tell us more about the boobs you have roleplayed as, girls.

I once played this half-giant merchant that had the sdesc: the keg-breasted half-giantess

Of course I ended up storing her because I can't stand playing merchants, but it was awesome while it lasted.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Have you ever noticed that while there is an outstanding amount of bi-sexual female characters played there seems to be very few male pcs interested in open/bi-sexual relationships with other men? Or even if they say they are, they next to never pursue relations with other males? I am not saying it does not happen, but in my personal experience it is something I have seen very, very rarely in comparison. I think that's directly related to it being more social acceptable for woman to be bi-sexual and less so for men in our IRL western culture. I would love to see more big burly male Byners playing grab ass with each other in Gaj. In fact I think my next Char is gonna be male.
          I am very open with my sexuality and gender tends not to factor in when I am 'on the prowel' IRL but I tend to avoid this pretty often on Arm because it always tends to lead to someone looking to indulge their personal fantasies about having multiple ladies in the bed and generally acting like ho's  . Also, the whole, just because I am open minded about my sex life, having multiple partners, and choice in partners does not mean I am still not picky or that I do not have standards, or that I want to sleep with you. Open mind, and experimental does not equal "Hi I am a Slut. I will go to bed with anyone that shakes my hand".
         I also thinks its bad that your judged poorly (by some) if you want to play an attractive PC once in while or that your obviously fishing for mud sex if your Female PC happens to have a medium or large breast size. I am naturally a D cup IRL that does not mean I want to sleep with everyone that give me a wink. I have on multiple occasions seen -modestly- dressed PC's have people ask them if they are whores based, as far as I could tell, solely on the fact that they had an attractive Main Desc. Lets ignore the fact the actual whores in a society like on the mud would be covered in festering sores... seriously look up some old pics of what real whores from back in the day looked like. They were not glamours attractive woman. Lately I have seemed to notice a trend with a large amount of female PC's having ant-bites for boobs and I honestly think its part of the whole oh well I don't want to seem anti-feminist and display woman in an unrealistic way. Just an Fyi while I am ranting the average breast size (without implants) is between 34B and 32C.

Sorry to rant about that but the last couple Character descriptions I have written up I have felt guilty and really wrestled over weather or not to even mention bust and actually worried I would be looked down on for having a character with a bust size similar to my own. Which made me in turn wonder why I should I feel guilty about  being well endowed up top.

Yeah, I can't tell you the number of times I've had pcs ask if my pcs were whores, even if they weren't dressed provocatively or trying to get any, just because they were fairly attractive. Meh.

Main reason on my part at least, that there are more bisexual women than men is because I don't play men! Ha. I might in the future, but just... eh. Feels less than attractive to me when there's so many other roles I can play that are female. Mostly... I'm honestly surprised by the things that pass as not being sexism that are. But that's just... an entirely different story and not something I'm about to post the details of in a thread. Just... yeah.

[Bast]

In more impoverished/desert areas, average breast size is an A cup. Ladies need lots of protein (and genes) to develop them luscious boobs. If they're especially active (warrior women) naturally large breasts will be even more uncommon. It's not a bad thing to have big boobs, but maybe the PCs are just trying to display the world realistically, not just going 'oh geez I don't want to seem like I'm trying to be *gasp* pretty.' And yes, I've played the whole spectrum of boob sizes.

I think it really depends on the area and gene pool. I have a great deal of family in Iran and woman over there tend to be big breasted it gets up around 120's in the summer there. Starvation certainly plays into development however you will still breasts in the C to DD range in africa depending on the tribe.

[Is Friday]

You really cannot argue nevermind, you can argue that point, because it's the internet.

[Bluefae]

I'd be more than happy to have a thread about how men are portrayed in the game as well.

This seems like a fine angle to me. Or even why these discussions do seem to always revolve around limiting play as a female, not as a male. I hadn't noticed that pattern before, and it unfolds all sorts of interesting thoughts and conjectures. But I need to go teach instead of maundering on the GDB. :p

     No, Sanvean!  Maunder, my Lady, maunder!

[Bluefae]

     And yes, Bast, I've noticed the trend you mentioned as well.  More guy-on-guy action, fellas!  *laugh*  When the current critter croaks, I'll give it another go.  Oi, me and my doomed ukes . . .