Discuss pending change to flee from Staff Announcements

[brytta.leofa]

Right! IMO everyone saying that this is so great a change as it is mostly plays the guilds with flee. This way it only adds to the deadliness of warriors. With his offense and defense bonus, including the new flee, a 10 day warrior would easily wipe the entire Rinth of all the sneaky people.

Not if they're sneaky.

[Naruto]

Right! IMO everyone saying that this is so great a change as it is mostly plays the guilds with flee. This way it only adds to the deadliness of warriors. With his offense and defense bonus, including the new flee, a 10 day warrior would easily wipe the entire Rinth of all the sneaky people.

Not if they're sneaky.

Sneakiness doesn't last forever.

[bcw81]

Right! IMO everyone saying that this is so great a change as it is mostly plays the guilds with flee. This way it only adds to the deadliness of warriors. With his offense and defense bonus, including the new flee, a 10 day warrior would easily wipe the entire Rinth of all the sneaky people.

Not if they're sneaky.

Sneakiness doesn't last forever.

You've never played a sneaky.

[Twilight]

If you can get hit by a creature that can two hit you you shouldn't be fighting long enough for the first hit. You should be fleeing immediately. And only incurring the first hit on a bad flee.

Um, what?  They automatically get the first hit if they are aggro and get the kill command in.  So then you are looking at a second hit to even flee.  As for whether they will get that command in, depends on a number of things, like your connection and the speed of your mount.

Obviously, if it was you that typed in the kill command, you should die for the stupidity.

[askaran]

Seen this implemented over the last day or two. I like it. Makes sense. IN dnd enemies get attacks of oppertunity when you leave a threatened square and flee.

[Naruto]

Seen this implemented over the last day or two. I like it. Makes sense. IN dnd enemies get attacks of oppertunity when you leave a threatened square and flee.

Yeah! In DnD you don't actually meet an NPC which can kill you in two hits most of the time. On the other hand, everyone has the chance to learn the feat mobility (in our case flee). And most combat moves (disarm, trip, graple, bullrush, overrun and sunder) give attacks an opportunity to all those you're fighting against.

[Necro]

huge nerf to non fleeing guilds. apparently i should've picked a better combo.

[Dalmeth]

At the very least, I think the command lag on being rescued should be looked at before this goes in.  As it stands it is ridiculous, it always has been ridiculous, and will remain ridiculous into the far-flung future.

[Delirium]

Agreed, rescue lag should be looked at, including for the rescuee upon success.

[Semper]

Agreed, rescue lag should be looked at, including for the rescuee upon success.

Yes PLEASE. It's a death sentence to successfully rescue someone who's getting mobbed, when it should technically be increasing their survival.

[Chettaman]

In DnD you don't actually meet an NPC which can kill you in two hits most of the time....

I must be an asshole DM.

I notice that creatures that flee -from- you used to get a free hit. I havn't done combat in a while, though. I like the idea of vice-versa. Sure people are getting wise and will flee sooner but I'm a badass anyway. They shouldn't of even tried... unless I didn't give them a choice and still. After they figured out who I was they should just tuck their tail and run. Run and -maybe- die. Or stay and die. I win either way.

Also. People without the flee skill. That means they aren't skilled in fleeing. An assassin shouldn't be fleeing combat. He should be ending it with a single blow or with poison. Or other sneaky ways. Hire another warrior or something.

Ask for the gaint things that walk into a room diagonal from you dual-wielding teeth to two-hit you... true. It's gonna suck. It happens in an instant and breaks your heart in two. The easy fix (sort of) would be to allow us to look in diagonal directions. : D

[Chettaman]

I'm sick. Mleh. Summery: We should give a little more knowledge to new players.

We should put more warnings up about playing this game.  Something like... "Don't try to knife raptors if you're a noob." I don't wanna see tutorials or anything. Just a little "be aware that you are a person living in a harsh land. Not a fantasy world of pretty princesses and fatty cakes that heal your wounds. Don't forget to gosh dang sleep." Or something... you know?

Not really. It won't change my characters at all. They either would be that way or not. The code doesn't decide my character's personality. It has the potential to  be very oocly frustrating, especially for newer players, that is all. Some players are strictly offpeak. Some of us find ourselves stuck in periods where the only time we can play is offpeak. Things shouldn't be made so difficult that only peak players get to have any action. New players who like to see action, shouldn't have to play for several years before they do everything just right and have a little luck to keep a character alive for a while. We forget how difficult this game is for new people and need to remember that if we want to playerbase to continue to grow. It is really only a minority of veterans that post threads about it not being hard enough. That doesn't mean most of the playerbase agrees.

I know zalanthians are tougher then us Earthlings. But who goes out and decides they're going to kill a man-eating raptor with a sword crafted from the bones of their ancestors? A badass is who. And if you're new to the world of zalanthas you better ask somebody. Just kidding (sort of) True. I started playing Arm like 4-7 years ago... something. Thanks to Gunnerblaster (shoutout). Anyway... my first character died after I thought it would be cool to walk down a certain road and kick the first thing I saw. A mekillot. After that I made another character for shits and giggles just to learn how to play for real after my first terrible idea. But... the world was so overwhelming. I quit for like three years or something before the bastard pulled me back into this amazing world.
Regarding peak and off peak. I play characters peak time that for some reason have -no- PC contact. I consider that off peak. being a loner is easy. -if- you know how to do it. So I wouldn't reccomend the loner type character to mek kicking noobs.

Shouldn't have been going after Mets unless you were properly prepared.

lol. I had to say this made me laugh. You're silly cabbage. ((no offense intended))

Side 2: This change makes being a "guide" through the wastes a worthy venture.

No matter how good of a guide you are, there isn't anything to save you from the aggro npc in the room diagonal from you that you can't see until you move into an adjacent room.

First of all. You can 99% of the time always know where something is. People should stop being lazy and actually go north and south instead of just looking. Knowledge is power. Far more powerful than any sword. (unless your knowledge involves a sword. And fire)
guard and rescue, shields and the skill and perry, slashing weapons and the skill, bludgeoning weapons and the skill, piercing weapons and the skill, chopping weapons and the skill, a distraction, kick, bash, throw, throwable items, backstab, sap, game crashes, archery and bows and arrows or slings... or crossbows, armor, a reboot, poison, disarm, flee, IMM powers, various magicks, charge, trample, disarm, kick, bash, climb, prior irradication of the species of aggro npc. Those could totally be used to stop that bahamet you unfortunately stumbled upon. And probably no. A nooby wouldn't know that unless of course someone told him.

[Delusion]

The mental image of somebody employing a sling against a bahamet is strangely hilarious. I digress, however.

Perhaps it was answered, but if so, I missed it: what happens if the 'free swing' causes the person attempting to flee to reel?

I think it was already mentioned, but perhaps now would also be a good time to review NPCs attacking with precisely 0 movement delay? It does seem to occur when they're going around in groups, and if it's only by blind luck (as opposed to skill) that a PC survives the initial attack, the odds against them are only getting worse if the NPCs get free digs on them when they try to flee. Would be nice to give them a chance to start running before the NPCs can initiate combat.

[Semper]

I just saw this new flee in action, and it made for a pretty awesome roleplay opportunity that would not have been possible before. I do think those with no flee skill are getting screwed, but it seems playable when considering the benefits too. Please fix the rescue though. The people who are more vulnerable due to this change just need to take more precautions I guess...

[Armaddict]

Hmm.  Just a thought...is there any ability to tie this in with training ranged weapons on people to fire if they flee?

[FantasyWriter]

Hmm.  Just a thought...is there any ability to tie this in with training ranged weapons on people to fire if they flee?

Hands in the air! Move and your dead, kankfucker!!!
>train bow dude

I have to go change my pants now.

[roughneck]

I would rather include a way of 'threatening' with a melee weapon.

command: threaten <keyword>

A message like, 'the big fat half-giant threatens you with his club'

If you flee, he gets a chance to start combat... or at least his flee-shot.

Even better would be a chase command that lets you chase someone automatically as they flee the same way follow works but without a person able to 'unhitch' you.
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As for the change, call me crazy but it seems like the flee-er gets a penalty to their defensive skills as they take off.  I'm going to be finding -way- more newbie gear for the next couple of weeks.

[Armaddict]

As for the change, call me crazy but it seems like the flee-er gets a penalty to their defensive skills as they take off. 

[Nyr]

As for the change, call me crazy but it seems like the flee-er gets a penalty to their defensive skills as they take off.

I'm going to call you crazy.

[Romy]

So I've seen this change. Don't like it. 

It just makes the game seem so much harder to me, and I barely understand things right now.

Oh well.

[TheBadSeed]

Absolutely not a fan of this one.

A hit in Armageddon can have a huge ammount variation. The difference between a hit on the leg or a hit in the neck can already be the difference between life and death. Also, mobs themselves and NPC's vary greatly. You might have killed a dozen tregils without ever having a problem, and then run into one that is uber skilled and strong compared to the others that look just like it.

I guess I'm just not sold on the necessity of this change. The observation by some that the land isnt "dangerous" enough is, in my opinion, the jaded view of those who are well aware of the dangers, and know how to avoid them.

[Necro]

Here is what I think about this change.

1. Groups of characters become immensely more powerful. Force multiplier. It's my opinion that gank squads, whether comprised of PCs or NPC soldiers just became that much more awesome (something they really didn't need). If you have five people after you chances are that one can bash you.
This also means that if you ever get accidentally crim coded near a group of militia NPCs... well, I hope you didn't roll good stats on that character. If there's any one of you here who hasn't seen or been through a near-miss incident due to a typo or nosaves, I've got a bridge to sell ya.

2. Half-giants and dwarves (and bahamets) just became immensely more powerful. As mentioned previously, strength totally tips the balance for this change. Did they really need this? I'm entirely unconvinced. I understand armageddon is not about PVP balance - but we're loading one side of the scale entirely too much.

3. Guilds without flee skill - Your abilities, utility and role in the game world have just changed (read: diminished) because apparently you have no familiarity with how to escape conflict... even if you are a DND rogue type guild. This is patently ridiculous. Anyone in game, regardless of class, should have the ability to get to say apprentice or journeyman flee. It's bad enough you could barely escape subdues before, now you're going to get hit in the back anytime you try to perform a hit and run.. even if that is your prerogative as a character and should be the #1 thing you would look out for.

4. Increased barrier to entry for new players. Think about it. We aren't exactly newbie friendly.

To summarize, I perceive this change as a negative one for the reasons listed. I hope this change is adequately dissected and discussed and improved to fit into the game, or dismissed otherwise. Maybe you guys should just add an extended subguild with maxed flee, since I can warrior / sorcerer or magicker / backstab now. Har, har.

[Delusion]

Another question:

If a PC is being attacked by multiple opponents, and tries to flee, do they all get a chance to get a free hit in?

[RogueGunslinger]

Still don't get what's so hard about fleeing a hit earlier than normal.

[Iiyola]

Still don't get what's so hard about fleeing a hit earlier than normal.

Example:

Backstab.

Almost dead.

> Flee

hit.

Beep.