Discussion Thread: Karma Changes

[Reiloth]

It could! But I want to be sure that if you're asking you know it can go either way.  There's no take backs!

reroll karma undo

[Reiloth]

How many new subguilds are being added?

[Malifaxis]

It seems as if a bunch of these are geared toward herding players into staff run clans or having to play roles they may not have any interest in playing in order to earn the karma to do some other things they may want to do. My concern is that you'll have players who prefer mundane, player-run indy clans being at a disadvantage when it comes to karma vs. those who prefer magick or staff run clans. It doesn't mean they deserve it any less but won't get it if they don't play things they might not enjoy.

This seriously pisses me off.

The Staff does everything they can to watch over everyone they can at any given time.  It is NOT their fault if you choose to walk uncommon paths and don't send in reports.  How the fuck are they supposed to know about something that doesn't seem to want to be known about, when they have 80 other irons in the fire at any given time?

If an indy player, ANY indy player, mundane or magickal, makes regular reports and puts up a sign saying "Hey, notice me, I exist!" then they'll receive attention, even if it's just silent watching.  If they don't, THEN, and only then, will they be at a "disadvantage."

[Gimfalisette]

I <3 these changes so, so much.

[Reiloth]

It seems as if a bunch of these are geared toward herding players into staff run clans or having to play roles they may not have any interest in playing in order to earn the karma to do some other things they may want to do. My concern is that you'll have players who prefer mundane, player-run indy clans being at a disadvantage when it comes to karma vs. those who prefer magick or staff run clans. It doesn't mean they deserve it any less but won't get it if they don't play things they might not enjoy.

This seriously pisses me off.

The Staff does everything they can to watch over everyone they can at any given time.  It is NOT their fault if you choose to walk uncommon paths and don't send in reports.  How the fuck are they supposed to know about something that doesn't seem to want to be known about, when they have 80 other irons in the fire at any given time?

If an indy player, ANY indy player, mundane or magickal, makes regular reports and puts up a sign saying "Hey, notice me, I exist!" then they'll receive attention, even if it's just silent watching.  If they don't, THEN, and only then, will they be at a "disadvantage."

Completely true. I have received Staff's attention on Indy characters when I make regular reports and just clue them in to what is going on around my character, as well as add bios. You need to put in a little extra work, because, you aren't in a Clan. That's one of the benefits of being in a clan. It's good to realize also that there is an "Independents" clan, so to speak, and they are very willing to eat your brainz.

[Reiloth]

Also, as Dakota asked earlier, what is the ETA on these changes going live?

[janeshephard]

Completely true. I have received Staff's attention on Indy characters when I make regular reports and just clue them in to what is going on around my character, as well as add bios. You need to put in a little extra work, because, you aren't in a Clan. That's one of the benefits of being in a clan. It's good to realize also that there is an "Independents" clan, so to speak, and they are very willing to eat your brainz.

Yes, it deserves pointing out that there's a default clan (Unclanned) you are part of if you aren't part of any other clan. It's staffed too just like the other clans. You can send in reports, ask for help with plots, and what not.

[Bacon]

Completely true. I have received Staff's attention on Indy characters when I make regular reports and just clue them in to what is going on around my character, as well as add bios. You need to put in a little extra work, because, you aren't in a Clan. That's one of the benefits of being in a clan. It's good to realize also that there is an "Independents" clan, so to speak, and they are very willing to eat your brainz.

Yes, it deserves pointing out that there's a default clan (Unclanned) you are part of if you aren't part of any other clan. It's staffed too just like the other clans. You can send in reports, ask for help with plots, and what not.

I did not realize this existed.

[Reiloth]

Completely true. I have received Staff's attention on Indy characters when I make regular reports and just clue them in to what is going on around my character, as well as add bios. You need to put in a little extra work, because, you aren't in a Clan. That's one of the benefits of being in a clan. It's good to realize also that there is an "Independents" clan, so to speak, and they are very willing to eat your brainz.

Yes, it deserves pointing out that there's a default clan (Unclanned) you are part of if you aren't part of any other clan. It's staffed too just like the other clans. You can send in reports, ask for help with plots, and what not.

I did not realize this existed.

Yes!

[Gimfalisette]

It's even already listed as a clan and has been for a very long time? http://www.armageddon.org/ic/#Unclanned

[FantasyWriter]

I really like that gaining karma is more quantifiable.

*When an if a karma review is requested, does staff look at the existing points to see what category they fit in?

* Is this something you are willing to let the players in on during said review so that we know what areas staff feels we need work in?
 (perhaps as a note beside the staff comment)
 for example - Added karma four for his wonderful work as Kissieface Oash. (leadership +1)
                     Spent his first three days played spamcasting in his apartment without ever leaving or emoting more than once per day. (magick -1)
                    None of his dwarves ever use capitalization or punctuation. His other PCs do. (-1 racial RP)
                    Even after 80 Days played, she only uses magick when necessary for the PCs survival. (+1 Magick)

Most of these (like the examples) would be obvious, but some could be quite ambiguous.

[Kalai]

Subguilds that master things! <3

That's all I saw. But that makes me happy.

[FantasyWriter]

Also, how with the longevity points be handled?

[Adhira]

Cutthroat is correct - this isn't a massive change in how we give out karma, these categories are all the areas that we considered previously.  This is instead a system which staff can use to ensure that we are consistent in what we are doing.

It will not be automated, it will be as it is now, done by staff members.  Karma takes time to earn, if you got karma points two months ago don't put in an account request expecting that you'll get more.  Instead you'll likely be told that you were recently granted karma and will be reviewed again once more time has passed.

As others have stated there is not a single character in the game that we consider to be without clan staff.  If you aren't in a traditional clan then you are considered an independant and we have clan staff for you. We have a mechanism for you to send in reports and requests just like anyone else in the more traditional roles.

As I mentioned before we won't be going in to details on the different criteria for each category. Doing so will just lead to an endless cycle of debate.  The only comment I will make is that the longevity category will not be awarded prior to 1 year of play, as stated previously this is the only category that is restricted to 1 point only.


At this point in time I am not giving out an ETA on the subguild/skill additions to the karma system.  This code dependant and is still being developed. The criteria is now being used by staff when granting karma, we have unofficially been doing this for the last few months.

[Fredd]

My one concern probably got overlooked in massive scroll... lol.

I read that there will be subguilds for those wishing to persue magick.

now, is this going to be akin to slapping say... A small ammount of rukkian on my warrior?

Or say... Make my rukkian a bit more... Mage-y?

[Adhira]

Keep in mind that these are subguild - while they will have a bit more oomph and options than your normal subguilds they are not an additional class.  There will be magick type subguild options available, it's up to the players how they combine them.  If you have the correct amount of points there is no reason you can't mix an match a mundane guild with a magick subguild or a magick guild with a magick subguild.

[palomar]

Regaining spent Karma points will be automated though, right?

[Adhira]

Ah sorry, yes, regaining karma points will be automated and is part of the coding that needs to be completed and tested before this is put in place.

[jstorrie]

I like how this is all sounding, for the most part - except with two karma points being contingent on 'understanding the magick system.'

I don't see why a player should be penalized for not knowing their mons from their suls. If their PC dies due to their lack of coded experience, why is that a huge problem? None of us powergaming-inclined types are being handed karma for our how well we understand how the mundane skill code works - indeed, that sort of understanding is discouraged. Why ought mage-players receive karma for knowing how the magick code works?

[Bacon]

This was edited to be more clear on that point.

Proven understanding of magick and its place in the game world

So, for players that don't like to play magickers, they can still earn this by displaying proper rp in regards to magick.

[Adhira]

Understanding magick and its place in the game world does not equate to understanding how the magick code works.  Also, note there are 7 categories, all but one category you can -possibly- get 2 points in that category.  An ideal player will hit every category, some may not hit every category but may get 2 points in one of the other categories etc.  It will not be the same formula for every player.

[jstorrie]

This was edited to be more clear on that point.

Proven understanding of magick and its place in the game world

Okay, this eases my mind quite a bit. The initial wording gave me the impression those two karma points were just for 'knowing how to make your PC cast spells.'

[Jengal]

These updates be bangin' brap brap.

[Case]

I suppose I am selfishly curious about this being allowed for existed characters too but otherwise it looks neat

[Adhira]

Sorry, we won't be introducing this for existing characters.  Trying to change subguilds etc is codedly difficult and would result in everything being reset to starting level, we'd just rather not go there.   Once this is implemented it will be for new characters from that point only.