Discussion Thread: Karma Changes

[Adhira]

Please use this thread to discuss the karma changes as posted in staff announcements. 

Note that the subguilds have already been determined and we are not soliciting ideas for these.

[Reiloth]

Holy shit!

Click: Do You Want To Know More? Button

EDIT:

I have been waiting for this change for 8 years. Thank you.

[palomar]

Awesome.

[Cutthroat]

Looks very interesting. This looks like something that will help veteran casual players the most, as they will be the ones with karma that are most likely to want initial boosts, and keep their characters long enough to regenerate their karma for the next role they want to play. But I think the standardized karma-awarding criteria will help everyone.

Will this change the maximum karma level now that they can be (temporarily) spent, or will it stay at 8? (Not that this applies to most players, just curious though.)

[Delirium]

This looks great for casual players, as well as for making mage classes more valuable and rare. I'm interested to see how this shapes up.

A thought for discussion: Is there a cap to the amount of Karma points a player can accrue? Should there be?

edit: looks like cutthroat beat me to it!

[brytta.leofa]

For a minute I thought that my cheese had been moved, but then I realized that it hadn't.

Will we retain the existing scheme for karma-based access to main guilds and races?

[brytta.leofa]

This looks great for casual players,

And this. This, a thousand times. Thank you so much.

[spicemustflow]

Are categories 'longevity' and 'leadership' of less importance to people who aren't interested in high profile sponsored roles? What I'm asking is, are categories independent or do they all add up and then that value is considered.

I think it's the first, but just to be sure.

[palomar]

How will this new approach take current Karma levels into account? Will there be an overall review of the Karma on all active accounts?

[Reiloth]

How will this new approach take current Karma levels into account? Will there be an overall review of the Karma on all active accounts?

That sounds hellish at best...

[palomar]

How will this new approach take current Karma levels into account? Will there be an overall review of the Karma on all active accounts?

That sounds hellish at best...

Yeah. I never said I thought it was a good idea... I'm wondering mostly because it seems like transition from the old to new system could be a bit difficult. Say, Account Amos has 4 Old Karma. How and when is that reviewed and "calculated" into New Karma? When submitting an Account Notes Request might be a viable option, I don't know.

[Dakota]

At first glance? From someone who has spent like.. what? Less than a year and a half in arm? This sounds awesome.

[jstorrie]

Ah! I've never even used the karma I have. Now I feel like I've wasted it.

If this increases the overall rarity of magick I'm for it I guess. Hard to say, not knowing any specifics. How quickly will karma 'recharge'? Will it stay on the same 0-8 scale? Will players with karma under the current system keep what they've earned? Will the existence of 'magick subguild options' actually make magick more common in-game? (ugh)

[Reiloth]

How will this new approach take current Karma levels into account? Will there be an overall review of the Karma on all active accounts?

That sounds hellish at best...

Yeah. I never said I thought it was a good idea... I'm wondering mostly because it seems like transition from the old to new system could be a bit difficult. Say, Account Amos has 4 Old Karma. How and when is that reviewed and "calculated" into New Karma? When submitting an Account Notes Request might be a viable option, I don't know.

What I would do is consider this a 'beta testing'. Let everyone keep karma at what level they have. People that abuse the system get a wrist slapping in the form of docking a point, people that don't keep on trucking and stand to gain karma.

[X-D]

Most these questions have been asked but I'm going to ask them again.

How important are the criteria, are they equal? Or is one more important then another? Will current karma levels be reviewed? What about special apps? Will the karma max be higher? What about people who, for the most part have no interest in magick, Can they still get higher karma levels? I mean, if you have no interest in playing a mage you cannot really satisfy at least one of the criteria, maybe more, but you still might want the extra karma for all the other nifty stuff.

Does taking a high karma option use that karma so it is not available for the other things or can they be used in conjunction?

[palomar]

How will this new approach take current Karma levels into account? Will there be an overall review of the Karma on all active accounts?

That sounds hellish at best...

Yeah. I never said I thought it was a good idea... I'm wondering mostly because it seems like transition from the old to new system could be a bit difficult. Say, Account Amos has 4 Old Karma. How and when is that reviewed and "calculated" into New Karma? When submitting an Account Notes Request might be a viable option, I don't know.

What I would do is consider this a 'beta testing'. Let everyone keep karma at what level they have. People that abuse the system get a wrist slapping in the form of docking a point, people that don't keep on trucking and stand to gain karma.

That might the easiest way to do it. We don't know if the current 8-karma ladder will be kept, though. I guess we'll see.

[Reiloth]

Well, it's definitely not being kept for 2.0, so I guess now is as good a time as any to throw it in the garbage.

[Adhira]

All criteria are not created equal.

For example the 'longevity' criteria we expect will be the one most people get first.   It's for sticking around and playing without being a total twink or jerk.  We'll be limiting this karma category to only a 1 point maximum.  With the other categories no player may get more than 2 points for the same category.  ie No matter how awesomely your emote and rp you'll never get more than two points for the roleplay category.

Essentially if you want to be an 8 karma player you will need at some point to 'hit' each category.

[janeshephard]

I look forward to seeing the subguilds. I think this is excellent, especially for people who want to play mundanes with a little extra uumph, and karma as a reward is good.

Most these questions have been asked but I'm going to ask them again.

How important are the criteria, are they equal? Or is one more important then another? Will current karma levels be reviewed? What about special apps? Will the karma max be higher? What about people who, for the most part have no interest in magick, Can they still get higher karma levels? I mean, if you have no interest in playing a mage you cannot really satisfy at least one of the criteria, maybe more, but you still might want the extra karma for all the other nifty stuff.

Does taking a high karma option use that karma so it is not available for the other things or can they be used in conjunction?

You can't be judged on "longevity", and "leadership" if you're playing a poor beggar in Tuluk with magick abilities. I don't think each quality is going to be expected of each role you play. Doesn't make sense.

[Adhira]

Karma will be kept at an 8 maximum, HOWEVER, through special applications an 8 karma character could apply to have up to 3 points of additional karma to spend.

Essentially the special application system will now be focusing on using the skill boost area or subguild areas for altering characters.  Special applications are currently limited to guilds/races currently 3 or less above your current karma range. We'll be following through with the same philosophy, if you want to get a few skill boosts or a different subguild and don't have enough karma you will need to special app and ask for a temporary boost of said karma points.

For regen rate we are currently looking at 1 point per month.  You will regenerate only to the points of your current karma level.

[janeshephard]

For regen rate we are currently looking at 1 point per month.  You will regenerate only to the points of your current karma level.

At that rate, a person could roll a sorcerer or psi, once every eight months, assuming they have a full eight karma points. Is this regen rate being placed in the game to cut down on too many high karma roles?

Do you feel by doing this, you may alienate the "magick only" players, who prefer to roll high karma guilds?

[Adhira]

We will not be going through and adjusting everyones karma with the new criteria in mind.

What we will be doing is assessing each account when we are looking to award karma.  Staff will be expected to note which categories the karma has previously been granted for and note what karma categories are met with the new point allocated.

We will be using the criteria when we are assessing whether to remove karma. We aren't planning to go through each account and start changing karma but if there are issues that come up that cause us to review an account (as happens now) then the karma criteria will be used when removing this karma.

[X-D]

Yes, I don't like it, It means, unless you do things you do not like at all, you will be stuck somewhere between 2 and 5 karma.

If I don't want to play a mage and never have, well, -2 karma, If I play my PCs hard and fast and take breaks from the game, Oops, another -1. If I find no reason to talk with staff other then maybe required things like PK reports, -2. Never played a leader and or don't want to, another neg. Adding to game is total opinion but if you just play you should get that one automatically.

[Reiloth]

So this is a vast departure from the current system, as I know several players with karma that have never played a magicker before. I sort of agree, and sort of disagree with this. I think it should still be possible for someone who prefers to play mundanes to have maximum karma, as Karma has always represented Staff Trust. On the other hand, I think it would behoove some of veteran players to step outside their comfort zone and try out a Magicker. Further along this path though -- Some people just aren't good at it (me). Does that limit players like myself, who either have an aversion to playing magickers or just...Aren't good at it...From achieving full karma?

[Dakota]

1: Once the new system is implemented (if suitable RP is done and if it fits) will existing long-lived PC's have the option (at the cost of karma point) be allowed to one of the new extended subguilds (via subguild change or other method)?

2: Does bumping a 'base skill' raise where one starts out @ or raises the overall cap one can achieve?

3: Any general ETA on this?

PS: I don't know about the magick thing w/ getting karma.. I have 0 interest in playing a gicker but perhaps I should just to like.. familiarize myself w/ it but I'd rather not as I like the mysterious-ness-ess of it.